344 réponses à ce sujet

[d_nought]

I mostly agree with the list given your bases for evaluating tiers, although I think if you have to make such a caveat for the HA, I don't think it belongs in Top Tier, more like A- tier.

[sy7ar]

 Drellguard is better than human guard without biotic teammates for constant BE. Also check out my topic/video. 

Modifié par sy7ar, 17 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[Ogelia]

 I dont understand  why ppl 
underestimate TS and QE, Ts is  with revenant X    and right spec rly carzy dps beast and prox mine ist  rly good for debufing, only problem is its single target dps and crazy ammo eater + no evasive  move  make it hard for play but you can easy kill each enemy in game and pahantoms rly not problem only hold it aimed and   dont care if  hiting head or body. And QE is rly awensome support class cryo is bes debuffing AoE spell in game  +25% ( 50% vs armored) dmg  for enemy is just crazy and with sentry tower with cryo ammo you have crazy AoE debuffer who care  you are last with  kills etc if you help  killing enemy  a lot of faster  and napalm is gret  spell too only problems are    enemys with shield/baiers bc  QE cannot get it out   fast enough. And bc its called multiplayer and its team game i am always happy if have good QE in my team. PPLs rly forgoting how important  suppert classes are  most of ppl  is going for best DPS classes. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Holy thread necromancy, Batman!

chipsandwich wrote...

I mostly agree with the list given your bases for evaluating tiers, although I think if you have to make such a caveat for the HA, I don't think it belongs in Top Tier, more like A- tier.

All tiers are evaluated assuming they are used in purely optimal conditions.  If these conditions are particularly narrow, it is noted.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 09:34 .

[Ace_Blazer]

imo the Quarian Infiltrator with the Sabotage backfire buff makes it Tier A on the same level as the Salarian Inf. It's my go to when fighting Reapers/Cerberus.

[GodlessPaladin]

Ace_Blazer wrote...

imo the Quarian Infiltrator with the Sabotage backfire buff makes it Tier A on the same level as the Salarian Inf. It's my go to when fighting Reapers/Cerberus.

Yeah, I haven't really taken the time to test the post-buff Quarian Infiltrator.  The rating may very well be obsolete.

We Tigers wrote...

In your list, every other class has a
caveat. "Vs. Reapers on a cramped map" is a pretty big qualifier. I
think you might end up with a more compelling list if you did one for
each enemy faction, as I think Sabresandiego did a while back.

 
It was actually Sabresandiego who argued against this and convinced me NOT to do one for every faction.

I might change my mind and do one in the future though, if I ever get the time to thoroughly test things in situations they are clearly not good at (I tend to pick classes according to situation).

I
also think your Salarian Engineer rank is silly as it's always been, but I guess the clear time mechanic makes it somewhat viable. That said, I find that an SE expedites clear time significantly because he never dies and keeps the team alive with decoy.

  With a team of highly competent players, people aren't really dying anyways and enemies are dying so fast that Decoy doesn't even have a chance to really matter.   If you can show me a strategy where the Salarian Engineer contributes to a 15 minute or so clear time, I might change my mind.  Until then, I'd rather have a Krogan Soldier on the team for nuking entire spawn points in seconds with Incendiary Grenades.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 09:19 .

[Ace_Blazer]

Video is here if you have yet to see the QI in action.  Sabotage bypasses shield gate and has a decent AoE.  Works really well against Phantoms.

http://social.biowar...ndex/11856825/1

Modifié par Ace_Blazer, 17 mai 2012 - 09:20 .

[Darke1]

For me, Geth Engineer would be Tier A.

He is the only class i can gold with myself, with maxed Hunter and Turret, he rocks...but then i have not unlocked a Geth Infiltrator yet (unfortunately).

Personally, i find all Infiltrator classes fairly average (though not tried Geth obviously), but i guess it all comes to play styles.

[GodlessPaladin]

Ogelia wrote...

 I dont understand  why ppl 
underestimate TS and QE, Ts is  with revenant X    and right spec rly carzy dps beast and prox mine ist  rly good for debufing, only problem is its single target dps and crazy ammo eater + no evasive  move  make it hard for play but you can easy kill each enemy in game and pahantoms rly not problem only hold it aimed and   dont care if  hiting head or body. And QE is rly awensome support class cryo is bes debuffing AoE spell in game  +25% ( 50% vs armored) dmg  for enemy is just crazy and with sentry tower with cryo ammo you have crazy AoE debuffer who care  you are last with  kills etc if you help  killing enemy  a lot of faster  and napalm is gret  spell too only problems are    enemys with shield/baiers bc  QE cannot get it out   fast enough. And bc its called multiplayer and its team game i am always happy if have good QE in my team. PPLs rly forgoting how important  suppert classes are  most of ppl  is going for best DPS classes. 

I don't believe I underestimate TS and QE.  C tier does not mean that it's crap.  C tier is completely viable for Gold and in skilled hands will easily top the scoreboards in pubs.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[Wesus]

Search for a SSMB, then make a list with god tiers etc.

Ive made lists for ssmb which were very good. Dont make these lists if you havent played fighter games.

[GodlessPaladin]

Wesus wrote...

Search for a SSMB, then make a list with god tiers etc.

Ive made lists for ssmb which were very good. Dont make these lists if you havent played fighter games.

Did you just get back from vacation?  Anyways you already did that joke.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 09:33 .

[Wesus]

Yes, you should add god tier wih turian sentinel and gi etc.

[Wesus]

Call it a joke when its the truth.

Ok keep pretending your list is good and ignore people who have done tekken and ssmb tournaments.


Ignorance.

[molecularman]

Why is justicar lower than drell...

[GodlessPaladin]

molecularman wrote...

Why is justicar lower than drell...

Because Drell is faster and has more offensive potential.  Cluster grenades set off multiple BEs with the proper spec and are pretty spammable considering you can quickly circle the map for continuous refills with your speed bonus.  They get where they're needed faster and pack a bigger punch.  The 450 barriers isn't a big deal considering you can dodge bullets and kill entire spawn points in seconds, as well as the fact that Reave staggers enemies just long enough for you to mow down Marauders.

The Justicar is more resilient, but I find I don't actually need the extra resilience.  The Justicar could be a better choice than the Drell if there are already other grenadiers in the team using up all the boxes, however.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 10:03 .

[Obi-Wan Jacoby]

Wesus wrote...

No god tier?

Not a good list, I recommend you to have a look at a SSMB tier list with meta-knight as god tier etc.

List isnt good.

No one cares about Meta-Knight.

[RamsenC]

SSBM isn't a real fighting game

*starts trouble*

[GodlessPaladin]

molecularman wrote...

Why is justicar lower than drell...

Okay look, here is why the Justicar is lower than the Drell:

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 mai 2012 - 07:44 .

[Xhitaa]

OP, you need to test the QI and move it up. The buff on sabotage is nuts...

[astheoceansblue]

I honestly don't see how you can rate Turian Soldier so low.

He has Proximity Mine and Marksman which are easily upper tier powers.
He has Concussive shot which is a an extremely underrated power.
And his racial passive is one of the best in the game.

He outshines many of the classes you have in the tier above him, imo, and it doesn't take a genius to use him well.

[GodlessPaladin]

astheoceansblue wrote...

I honestly don't see how you can rate Turian Soldier so low.

He has Proximity Mine and Marksman which are easily upper tier powers.
He has Concussive shot which is a an extremely underrated power.
And his racial passive is one of the best in the game.

He outshines many of the classes you have in the tier above him, imo, and it doesn't take a genius to use him well.

The TS's Proximity Mine is worse than everyone else's by a long shot due to the way Tactical Cloak synergizes with it so amazing well, and it synergizes terribly with Marksman.  And I don't see what the important part of the racial passive is... I can aim my Hurricane just fine without stability mods.  Heck I could aim it just fine back when it had horrible recoil. 

Anyways, what class do you think he outshines?  Everything in B rank can wipe the floor with entire late wave Gold spawn points in short order.  How do I do that with the Turian Soldier?

The way I see it, the best case scenario for a Turian Soldier is that he plays like a Human Soldier without the synergy and staying power.  He runs out of ammo faster, has to choose between one schtick or the other at any given point, has trouble transitioning between tactics and encounters, and he can't sustain a continuous offensive without fear of harm the way a Human Soldier can run around in the open on Condor blasting things ceaselessly. 

The Turian Soldier is a lot like an infiltrator stripped of survivability, synergy, mobility, and utility.  Still does good weapon damage... but all that other stuff matters too.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[molecularman]

Sure, drell has nades. But are you factoring in biotic support at all? Drell is way more efficient with another biotic. When you have somebody blowing up everything you reave the grenades kind of lose their role as a detonator and all that's left is some 2000 damage, only when all shrapnel hit. And you can't even use that consistently thanks to the resupply problems.

So, what else does drell have? More speed and a bit better carrying cap. Capacity isn't a too huge deal and even though speed is nice it doesn't make a big difference usually

Justicar's reave does more damage and lasts longer, she has way better survivability and arguably better dodge. And the sphere, of course. Spec it offensively and it is serious competition to cluster nades, spec it defensively and justicar becomes one of the most tanky classes in the game. More durability = more aggressive tactics

I really can't see how they aren't in the same tier.

Modifié par molecularman, 19 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[RamsenC]

You don't always have biotic support and when you don't being self sufficient is important. With support both classes will just burn everything down with explosions, but if your biotic buddy dies you need a back up plan.

Modifié par RamsenC, 19 mai 2012 - 07:59 .

[GodlessPaladin]

molecularman wrote...

Sure, drell has nades. But are you factoring in biotic support at all? Drell is way more efficient with another biotic. When you have somebody blowing up everything you reave the grenades kind of lose their role as a detonator and all that's left is some 2000 damage, only when all shrapnel hit. And you can't even use that consistently thanks to the resupply problems.

  Remember, Reave, sets up more than one explosion and recharges very quickly.  Your teammate can detonate the reave, and your cluster grenades will detonate more explosions off of the same Reave.  It also works the other way around... if teammates warp 3 different enemies, your grenades can set off a cascade of explosions.

Moreover, the fact that you don't actually need a second person covering the same spawn is a considerable benefit which allows the team to split up and cover more ground and clear waves more efficiently.  A Drell can, for example, dash to one spawn point, blow it up with a missile, dash to the place where all those enemies respawned, blow them all up in a few seconds (including Banshees), then rush over to where a teammate is and start spamming reave which the teammate then finishes to clear out another spawn. 

The Justicar isn't too far behind though, and one considerable benefit of putting a Justicar on a team slot is that it doesn't need to use grenades and doesn't counter-synergize with other grenadiers.  That might warrant putting it in A.  Dunno.

Justicar's reave does more damage and lasts longer

  That is helpful, but note that most of your damage is coming from BEs, and enemies aren't living that long anyways when a good team is being played to its potential.

she has way better survivability and arguably better dodge.

  She definitely is more resilient, yes.  This makes the Asari Justicar more forgiving for players who are likely to get shot before killing everything in the room.

More durability = more aggressive tactics

If I play as aggressively as I can with a Turian Soldier, I will die.  If I play as aggressively as I can with a Drell Adept, everything else is dead before they can react to my little green speedster.  I actually find that my non-Justicar Asari and Turian Soldiers have more trouble playing all-out aggressively than my Drell... who will just dash straight up to a Marauder's face and unload a Hurricane clip into it.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 mai 2012 - 08:14 .

[molecularman]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

 Remember, Reave, sets up more than one explosion and recharges very quickly.  Your teammate can detonate the reave, and your cluster grenades will detonate more explosions off of the same Reave.  It also works the other way around... if teammates warp 3 different enemies, your grenades can set off a cascade of explosions.

Moreover, the fact that you don't actually need a second person covering the same spawn is a considerable benefit which allows the team to split up and cover more ground and clear waves more efficiently.  A Drell can, for example, dash to one spawn point, blow it up with a missile, dash to the place where all those enemies respawned, blow them all up in a few seconds (including Banshees), then rush over to where a teammate is and start spamming reave which the teammate then finishes to clear out another spawn. 

Well, somebody with throw can detonate everything you set up (with more BE damage), as well as a vanguard. Remember that grenades really aren't a reliable way to combo all day long, you can't spam them like powers (not even in glacier). That makes them a lot less efficient. A biotic buddy isn't necessary but highly recommendable because of this. And drell will also lose a lot of damage compared to justicar because his reave is a lot weaker (especially noticeable if you play without support)

I think justicar has earned her place in A tier

Oh, and you should check stardusk's AJ guide (you probably did already), that should prove that justicar's durability is worth something

Modifié par molecularman, 19 mai 2012 - 08:46 .