344 réponses à ce sujet

[Viquey]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Don't forget, B tier doesn't mean that it's not awesome.  It is super-awesome, it's just not quite as awesome as A tier.  I provided some more detailed explanations for why the Salarian Engineer isn't quite at the top earlier in this thread.

B still seems to be underselling it. I'd put it on par with Salarian Infiltrator, which is a whole two tiers above B.

I didn't take "efficiency" and "effectiveness" to mean DPS specifically, but if that's what you're going on above all else then it seems the list you have is about perfect. I would say, personally, though, that a proper tier list would have to take the importance of support roles into account. Many, perhaps most, of the most efficient farming gold strategies are built around Decoy, which I think says something.

That said, he's only pure support on Gold when his tankiness is moot because everything does absurd amounts of damage. Play him vs. geth on bronze, spamming ED and decoy, and you'll feel like a god. He has offensive potential, is all I'm saying. Just, he's mostly support. And that's an important role, imo.

[wilzoon]

Human vanguard? on bronze or silver maybe, but definitely wont work on gold. They will most likely beg for mercy to be revived then being useful.

[GodlessPaladin]

wilzoon wrote...

Human vanguard? on bronze or silver maybe, but definitely wont work on gold. They will most likely beg for mercy to be revived then being useful.

Gold is all I play, and I can assure you that Vanguards are not only viable, but incredible on it.  You just can't get away with playing them the way noobies do on Bronze and Silver.

There are plenty of videos to back this up, and I'm pretty sure I linked at least one in this thread..

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 05:40 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Viquey wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Don't forget, B tier doesn't mean that it's not awesome.  It is super-awesome, it's just not quite as awesome as A tier.  I provided some more detailed explanations for why the Salarian Engineer isn't quite at the top earlier in this thread.

B still seems to be underselling it. I'd put it on par with Salarian Infiltrator, which is a whole two tiers above B.

  A- isn't even a whole tier.  It's classes that are A tier "only in X matchups."  And the difference between A and B is less than the difference between B and C

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 05:48 .

[InfamousResult]

Eh. Tiers.

My resolve will always be "once people start believing in tiers, they'll start kicking people who aren't playing top-tier classes- no matter how well they can play the lower tier". So I'm not such a big supporter of tiers.

Personally, I think they should nerf/buff/alter each class so they ALL fit under "A-"; every class should be situational, and should encourage people to have a VARIETY team to cover all the could-be bases of the mission, rather than 4 Asari Adepts clumped together because they're "A Tier". I assume that's what was originally intended in the first place.

Modifié par InfamousResult, 08 avril 2012 - 05:54 .

[Axialbloom]

Human Vanguard should have their own BUGGED tier.

[GodlessPaladin]

InfamousResult wrote...

Eh. Tiers.

My resolve will always be "once people start believing in tiers, they'll start kicking people who aren't playing top-tier classes- no matter how well they can play the lower tier". So I'm not such a big supporter of tiers.

Personally, I think they should nerf/buff/alter each class so they ALL fit under "A-"; every class should be situational, and should encourage people to have a VARIETY team to cover all the could-be bases of the mission, rather than 4 Asari Adepts clumped together because they're "A Tier". I assume that's what was originally intended in the first place.

I believe in tiers, and I don't kick people just because they aren't playing top tier classes.  Hell I play C tier classes myself all the damn time.

I disagree with the notion that A- is the best place to be from a game design perspective, though.  I don't think that one class should be really disproportionately useful against one faction.  Note that the A tier has situational advantages and disadvantages against different enemy setups and clear roles to play, too... it's just not as pronounced as with the A- tier.

Also, everyone playing the same A tier class is NOT an optimal team configuration.  Everyone should know that.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[InfamousResult]

I believe in tiers, and I don't kick people just because they aren't playing top tier classes.  I play C tier classes all the damn time.

You seem like a nice enough guy, so I didn't bug on you for making the tier list or anything.
And yes, even with tiers, you can still play whatever you want- win, and have fun. You understand that.

Most people aren't you, though, and they don't believe that when they see "TIERS", unfortunately.

[GodlessPaladin]

InfamousResult wrote...

I believe in tiers, and I don't kick people just because they aren't playing top tier classes.  I play C tier classes all the damn time.

You seem like a nice enough guy, so I didn't bug on you for making the tier list or anything.
And yes, even with tiers, you can still play whatever you want- win, and have fun. You understand that.

Most people aren't you, though, and they don't believe that when they see "TIERS", unfortunately.

Like I said in the OP, if you know what you're doing and your teammates do too, you are going to beat Gold all the time.  The only case I really would care about optimizing team configurations would be if I'm trying to do speed runs to see how far I can push myself.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Krogan sentinel Should same tier as the Soldier when added. The classes are almost the same with the Sentinel only being a slight bit better due to tech armor detonation and lift grenade>>>>>Inferno grenade since it can at the very least aid in biotic detonations. The only real advantage the soldier has is a higher shield recharge rate and more melee damage.

[KelbornX]

InfamousResult wrote...

My resolve will always be "once people start believing in tiers, they'll start kicking people who aren't playing top-tier classes- no matter how well they can play the lower tier". So I'm not such a big supporter of tiers.

One of the big reasons I quit playing League of Legends.  All everyone did was play Tier 1 champions all the time and it got super boring really fast.  And if you didn't play a T1, you'd get trolled into quitting the game or feeding just to ****** the jackasses off.  

I'd rather see a list of what class is most effective vs each individual faction, not a blanket list.  While you might rate Salarian Engineer a B overall...  I'd put him at A vs Geth.  I'd put Turian Sentinel as an A as well, since they can deal with anything.  

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

KelbornX wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

My resolve will always be "once people start believing in tiers, they'll start kicking people who aren't playing top-tier classes- no matter how well they can play the lower tier". So I'm not such a big supporter of tiers.

One of the big reasons I quit playing League of Legends.  All everyone did was play Tier 1 champions all the time and it got super boring really fast.  And if you didn't play a T1, you'd get trolled into quitting the game or feeding just to ****** the jackasses off.  

I'd rather see a list of what class is most effective vs each individual faction, not a blanket list.  While you might rate Salarian Engineer a B overall...  I'd put him at A vs Geth.  I'd put Turian Sentinel as an A as well, since they can deal with anything.  

Most online players don't even read the forums. 
So i don't think thats a big concern. 

[Axialbloom]

Non-host vanguards are KICK tier in gold.

[GodlessPaladin]

KelbornX wrote...
I'd rather see a list of what class is most effective vs each individual faction, not a blanket list.

  That seems reasonable, and like I said before the only reason I didn't do that to begin with was because Sabresandiego argued that I shouldn't because it would be "too confusing" to people.

Might post up something like that in the near future.  However, I'm not really confident in my handle on exactly how well every class fares against every faction (since I mostly just use them against the faction they're best at.  Ranking the second and third strings in anything other than a ballpark order would be trickier without extra testing.  And of course there's the stuff I threw in the ? tier, which I obviously would like more input on).

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 07:11 .

[Diablerist666]

As Sabre's Video is given as an example for Speedrunning a couple of times in this thread, I'd like to clarify that the Human Adept is an integral part of that setup. Asari is much slower in my opinion and only better against Cerberus. So Tier A- at least for HA.

People whining that HA is useless don't know what they're talking about in the same manner as people claiming that HV is **** above Silver.

[Alantria]

I've always questioned the usefulness of 'tier ranking' as it gives some people the idea that playing 'A tier' characters will guarantee success. As you said before GP, it is more important to ensure you have a balanced squad than anything else. Players just have to look at their teammates respective classes and figure out how they can best help the team.

For example, two infiltrators and an asari adept already on the squad? There is really no need for you to go adept or infiltrator as well, go for SE or TS and help with general crowd control and stripping barriers/shield to help the team out. Hell take a Krogan out to act as a meat shield for the squishy teammates behind you.
On that note, even if you are playing an 'A Tier' class such as the asari adept, you have to ensure that you are playing it to the full benefit of the team. I for example run up to any infiltrator, park my pretty blue ass next to him and stasis literally everything that is moving (vs Cerberus of course). I rarely actually shoot simply because infiltrators are far more efficient at it. I'm in essence spotting my sniper friend and directing his fire to high priority targets because nothing says shoot me like a giant white bubble. During cool downs, I spend the rest of the time scoping out the surroundings to ensure we aren't being flanked. There have been countless times where I have thrown stasis on two phantoms before switching focus to an assault trooper only to discover the infiltrator next to me decides he wants to take put shots at a nemisis hiding behind cover and ignores the gift wrapped phantoms, leaving me to take potshots at them with my pistol, time I could spend either watching our backs or tracking other targets.

Mind you I don't play gold simply because I have a hard enough time finding a competent team in silver who can play as a team. I don't need to added stress of six Phantoms running at me and my teammates scattered to the four winds.

[Dachau Joseph]

Ascended Nagato wrote...

This would be my list:

A tier: You can't go wrong with these guys.
Asari Adept
Salarian Infiltrator
Salarian Engineer
Human Engineer


A- tier: As awesome as A when in their element, not so hot when not.
Human Vanguard
Drell Adept
Turian Sentinel

B tier: Almost as good as A, but not quite.
Human Infiltrator
Asari Vanguard
Human Sentinel
Quarian Infiltrator

C tier: The rest of the crap.

Krogan Soldier
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Human Soldier
Quarian Engineer
Drell Vanguard
Turian Soldier

fixed

[RenegadeVA]

I'm sorry, but just because tons of scrubs play the class wrong doesn't make ManGuards one of the best classes in the game.

SE HV AA are hands down the best classes.

Stuff like SE, HE, HA, DA, AV, QI are all pretty good.

And yes, I like the human adept. I think shockwave is very underrated. It just really sucks that you have to choose Detonate vs Expand.
I personally go Radius, Expand, Lift, and I think it's one of the best skills in the game. It deosn't do amazing damage without biotic explosions, but the stagger CC and ability to shoot though walls is very nice. It also works well w/ Reave in that they are "undodgeable biotic explosion combo"

Btw, if some DLC class gets Javik's Dark Channel, they immediately go into A+ tier, because that skill is beyond busted when paired up with a Vanguard.

[fuji7x]

 On your needs more testing section, I've only played the turian sentinel on gold and I'd have to say it's slotted between the B and C tiers.

It's the true teammate as it covers 3 aspects of combat; biotic explosions, tech explosions, and ammo power dispersal (with an AR and ammo power, you can cryo/disrupt lots of enemies).

This class most likely won't be the carry on the team, but it is very versatile and can work with any party composition.  I have him specced 6/6/6/6/0 currently with an AOE overload and combo-expose-pierce warp.  Unlikely to score the highest on a team, but still provides some value to the team in terms of combos.  Resilient enough to take a shot or two more than others with Tech Armor and a good base shield, but lacking a roll to make them stand out.  There's no one enemy type that makes the TS stand out, nor one build type that isn't handled better than the other specialist classes.

The TS is basically your jack of all trades and for that I'd put him between the B and C rank.

[deadbeatriot]

here's another vote for bumping HE up at least to B tier. you can just spam drone and overload fast enough to keep a significant group of enemies stunned long enough for your squad to wipe the floor with them, and while incinerate may not be the best power against armor, it's still very good, plus you can use it along with combat drone to flush enemies out of cover. i've been able to keep phantoms at bay by spamming incinerate, keeping them dodging while i pepper them with gunfire as well.

[humes spork]

Quick suggestion. There needs to be a D-tier, in which only the worst of the worst to be avoided at all costs should be. In that tier is one thing: stop having fun guys.

[GodlessPaladin]

fuji7l wrote...

 On your needs more testing section, I've
only played the turian sentinel on gold and I'd have to say it's slotted
between the B and C tiers.

It's the true teammate as it covers 3
aspects of combat; biotic explosions, tech explosions, and ammo power
dispersal (with an AR and ammo power, you can cryo/disrupt lots of
enemies).

This class most likely won't be the carry on the team,
but it is very versatile and can work with any party composition.  I
have him specced 6/6/6/6/0 currently with an AOE overload and
combo-expose-pierce warp.  Unlikely to score the highest on a team, but
still provides some value to the team in terms of combos.  Resilient
enough to take a shot or two more than others with Tech Armor and a good
base shield, but lacking a roll to make them stand out.  There's no one
enemy type that makes the TS stand out, nor one build type that isn't
handled better than the other specialist classes.

The TS is basically your jack of all trades and for that I'd put him between the B and C rank.

My initial impressions are thus:

The whole "jack of all trades" thing seems shaky to me.

-Ability to work with every teammate? Sure, but you knew who your teammates were before the match started anyways (their classes can't be randomized like maps or factions), and could choose something more focused on working with said teammates.

-Ability to do both biotic and tech explosions? Eh, is there ever really a situation where you don't want to focus on doing just one of them, at least if you're going for an optimized team?

-More shields! But less mobility (no dodge!), and those extra shields are only buying you a coupla bullets. You're not exactly a tank in the sense that either the Salarian Engineer or Human Vanguard are, and you're not exactly super survivable in the sense that a Salarian Infiltrator is.

-Being a jack of all trades means more than just being able to throw out different types of combo setups.  There are so many other factors in the game, like objectives and such.  If you're actually counting the roles that the Turian Sentinel brings to the table, he looks like a jack of few trades compared to, say, the Salarian Infiltrator (AoE shield stripper / stunner, force multiplier via proximity mine, deadly sniper, device activator, ninja medic...)

As such, I find it hard to justify the Turian Sentinel in a high tier, but I keep hearing nice things being said about the Turian Sentinel, so I keep thinking there must be something I'm missing. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:02 .

[Xendless]

Can't wait until the Asari Justicar unlocks, should be interesting how it fairs against the Adept

[Currylaksa]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Krogan sentinel Should same tier as the Soldier when added. The classes are almost the same with the Sentinel only being a slight bit better due to tech armor detonation and lift grenade>>>>>Inferno grenade since it can at the very least aid in biotic detonations. The only real advantage the soldier has is a higher shield recharge rate and more melee damage.

Krogan Soldier should be higher than Sentinel since Carnage is miles ahead of Incinerate.

[Mystical_Gaming]

Sad to see the Quarian Engineer labeled as 'crap'. Maybe bioware can buff it more. I wouldn't complain =)

Modifié par Mystical_Gaming, 08 avril 2012 - 02:02 .