344 réponses à ce sujet

[GodlessPaladin]

RamsenC wrote...

Human Infiltrator with GPS or Claymore is better than B tier and also insanely fun. A lot of people seem to be underrating Drell Vanguard and Turian Sentinel so be careful not to do that ;o

Could you highlight some of the competitive advantages of the Turian Sentinel and Drell Vanguard for me?

Currylaksa wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Krogan sentinel Should same tier as the Soldier when added. The classes are almost the same with the Sentinel only being a slight bit better due to tech armor detonation and lift grenade>>>>>Inferno grenade since it can at the very least aid in biotic detonations. The only real advantage the soldier has is a higher shield recharge rate and more melee damage.

Krogan Soldier should be higher than Sentinel since Carnage is miles ahead of Incinerate.

Tech armor seems nicer than fortification, but I have to agree that Carnage seems a heckuva lot nicer than Incinerate.  OTOH, you can just use it as a pure weapons class, dawning two heavy weapons like an N7 Crusader and a Black Widow and avoiding Incinerate altogether.  Essentially, this could make you the equivalent of a 2240 shield weapons platform that sometimes punches phantoms SO HARD that they fly hilariously all the way across the map.  In terms of being a pure weapons platform and ignoring powers that cool down, the Sentinel seems better than the Soldier.  

The way I see it, the question essentially comes down to whether you think Carnage is better than the strongest, heaviest weapon loadout you can grab and +10% durability (and a little extra punching factor that doesn't require you to expend your damage reduction).

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:14 .

[Elecbender]

Regardless of "tiers" I just use what I feel is comfortable to me.

[molecularman]

Where is all the hate about tier lists?

Anyways, Salarian engineer possibly could be in A-, he is pretty great when used correctly
And maybe human vanguard should be A-? He has to be hosting, needs a strict build and is at his best with a biotic. Not that I'm hating, vanguard just needs to meet certain requirements to be effective.

Still, an informative list as it is.


E: I see there was already a note about vanguards

Modifié par molecularman, 08 avril 2012 - 02:17 .

[Cette]

I've yet to play a character more able handle any situation if your team drops the ball than a Human Engineer.

No matter what type of enemy it is you've got something that can take it down plus the option of combat drone for 1 man flanking maneuvers and to just drop and run like hell while the enemies pound on it if things come to that..

Plus chain overload combined either drone evolution make for great crowd control.

Note I haven't play SE which may or may not do the same things better but surely not enough so to drop HE in the trash bin.

[GodlessPaladin]

Cette wrote...

I've yet to play a character more able handle any situation if your team drops the ball than a Human Engineer.

No matter what type of enemy it is you've got something that can take it down plus the option of combat drone for 1 man flanking maneuvers and to just drop and run like hell while the enemies pound on it if things come to that..

Plus chain overload combined either drone evolution make for great crowd control.

Note I haven't play SE which may or may not do the same things better but surely not enough so to drop HE in the trash bin.

I never seemed to be able to do any meaningful damage with the drone, and if it attracted any attention, it died really quickly.  By contrast, the Salarian Engineer's Decoy will hold the line so damn well that Major Kirrahe would be proud, and I could just freely pound away on a nicely-grouped huddle of enemies as they stare dumbfoundedly at the suspiciously invincible and stationary image of a handsome Salarian.

Overload also seemed like a weaker version of Energy Drain.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[nicethugbert]

Salarian engineer is A Teir. He can do gold at level 1 with one point in decoy.

[GodlessPaladin]

nicethugbert wrote...

Salarian engineer is A Teir. He can do gold at level 1 with one point in decoy.

But does it go fast?  It's not a question of whether I can win gold, it's a question of efficiency. 

If I were to be really sold on putting Salarian Engineers in A tier, the most likely reason would be because I figured out some strategy where the team's movement pattern had enemies from multiple spawns accrue conveniently around a decoy while another enemy spawn was cleared, and helped speed up high efficiency runs (and also that the team doing this liked tech bursts).  If I saw Salarian Engineers as competitive candidates for a speedrun team strategy, rather than more of a simplified hold-the-land technique, then I'd drop them into the A list in a second.  The recent buffs to non-biotic combo explosions seem like it could make this a more likely possibility than it was before.

Anyone have any ideas?

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:38 .

[WestLakeDragon]

On gold with SE, you drop a decoy out while you get biotic spammers working, and then you win.

 And that sir, is every gold run I've played (though I'm an AA personally)

Modifié par WestLakeDragon, 08 avril 2012 - 02:39 .

[GodlessPaladin]

WestLakeDragon wrote...

On gold with SE, you drop a decoy out while you get biotic spammers working, and then you win.

 And that sir, is every gold run I've played (though I'm an AA personally)

You drop it defensively, so enemies don't advance on your position?  Because that seems redundant to an optimal biotic squad, which is chasing the enemies down and stopping them with death, like so:   http://www.youtube.c...?v=UhLEd4GnZ_k#

The way I see it, if I can only see the decoy as something blocks off the enemy offense (something an optimal team doesn't need) while not actually increasing the offensive efficiency of the team the way a different character would, it stays at B according to the evaluation critera I listed in the OP.

I think it might be possible to use the salarian engineer in ways that will really increase your clearing efficiency, but I haven't actually found/run them yet.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:45 .

[WestLakeDragon]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

On gold with SE, you drop a decoy out while you get biotic spammers working, and then you win.

 And that sir, is every gold run I've played (though I'm an AA personally)

You drop it defensively, so enemies don't advance on your position?  Because that seems redundant to an optimal biotic squad, which is chasing the enemies down and stopping them with death, like so:   http://www.youtube.c...?v=UhLEd4GnZ_k#

With the biotics being so squishy, with a decoy out we don't almost ever drop. It isn't just being used defensively, with how fast it recharges you can use it on the go as well, you just put it out before changing rooms or what have you

Modifié par WestLakeDragon, 08 avril 2012 - 02:45 .

[GodlessPaladin]

WestLakeDragon wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

On gold with SE, you drop a decoy out while you get biotic spammers working, and then you win.

 And that sir, is every gold run I've played (though I'm an AA personally)

You drop it defensively, so enemies don't advance on your position?  Because that seems redundant to an optimal biotic squad, which is chasing the enemies down and stopping them with death, like so:   http://www.youtube.c...?v=UhLEd4GnZ_k#

With the biotics being so squishy, with a decoy out we don't almost ever drop. It isn't just being used defensively, with how fast it recharges you can use it on the go as well, you just put it out before changing rooms or what have you

I know, I just am trying to figure out an actual strategy I can test where it would potentially show the Salarian Engineer to be adding to a speedrun effort rather than detracting much from the offensive roster.

[Cette]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Cette wrote...

I've yet to play a character more able handle any situation if your team drops the ball than a Human Engineer.

No matter what type of enemy it is you've got something that can take it down plus the option of combat drone for 1 man flanking maneuvers and to just drop and run like hell while the enemies pound on it if things come to that..

Plus chain overload combined either drone evolution make for great crowd control.

Note I haven't play SE which may or may not do the same things better but surely not enough so to drop HE in the trash bin.

I never seemed to be able to do any meaningful damage with the drone, and if it attracted any attention, it died really quickly.  By contrast, the Salarian Engineer's Decoy will hold the line so damn well that Major Kirrahe would be proud, and I could just freely pound away on a nicely-grouped huddle of enemies as they stare dumbfoundedly at the suspiciously invincible and stationary image of a handsome Salarian.

Overload also seemed like a weaker version of Energy Drain.

Three properly specced droen missles are worth one incinerate so if it can get that many into someone it's pulled it's weight.  If enemies do turn on it then thats heat not going your way so you can pop out and do damage tourself.
  If the ignore it then it'll just happily sit there plinking into their backside all day while you're safe behind cover. 

Haven't speced that way but I hear a droen specced for chaining shots and stun can lock down whole area's on it's own very nicely so you can clean up.  And if it does get whacked it's on a very short cooldown so no loss you pop another one.

LikeI said haven't done SE but doesn't energy drain trade a lot of stun duration and area covered for the shield recharge ability?  Porbably still pushes it over the edge but everyone seems to think it should be A to A- ranked anyway.

Modifié par Cette, 08 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[fuji7x]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

My initial impressions are thus:

The whole "jack of all trades" thing seems shaky to me.

-Ability to work with every teammate? Sure, but you knew who your teammates were before the match started anyways (their classes can't be randomized like maps or factions), and could choose something more focused on working with said teammates.

-Ability to do both biotic and tech explosions? Eh, is there ever really a situation where you don't want to focus on doing just one of them, at least if you're going for an optimized team?

-More shields! But less mobility (no dodge!), and those extra shields are only buying you a coupla bullets. You're not exactly a tank in the sense that either the Salarian Engineer or Human Vanguard are, and you're not exactly super survivable in the sense that a Salarian Infiltrator is.

-Being a jack of all trades means more than just being able to throw out different types of combo setups.  There are so many other factors in the game, like objectives and such.  If you're actually counting the roles that the Turian Sentinel brings to the table, he looks like a jack of few trades compared to, say, the Salarian Infiltrator (AoE shield stripper / stunner, force multiplier via proximity mine, deadly sniper, device activator, ninja medic...)

As such, I find it hard to justify the Turian Sentinel in a high tier, but I keep hearing nice things being said about the Turian Sentinel, so I keep thinking there must be something I'm missing. 

Comparing him to the Salarian Infiltrator is a bit unfair.  Every tier list has the SI at the top, because of the reasons you just mentioned.  The utility and damage output of that class exceeds any others.

Your assessment is accurate on the TS.  Shields, no mobility, set up or detonate combos, but not a specialist. Party comp doesn't always go nicely when you play in PUGs, so that versatility means you can pair up with anyone.

However, the reason I suggest between a B and C is when I compare him to the other classes in those tiers.  He is better than a Soldier, provides much more utility.  He is not as good as a Salarian Engineer for reasons outlined in your assessment.  It appears that your assessment is looking at it from one perspective, of is he better than the AA at biotics, the Salarians at Tech, which he he is not.  However, he IS better than the human soldier, turian soldier and any other class that relies on weapon damage alone.  I feel is better than all the C-rank classes, save for the Human Engineer whom I believe is underrated in the tier list as well.

[Cette]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

On gold with SE, you drop a decoy out while you get biotic spammers working, and then you win.

 And that sir, is every gold run I've played (though I'm an AA personally)

You drop it defensively, so enemies don't advance on your position?  Because that seems redundant to an optimal biotic squad, which is chasing the enemies down and stopping them with death, like so:   http://www.youtube.c...?v=UhLEd4GnZ_k#

The way I see it, if I can only see the decoy as something blocks off the enemy offense (something an optimal team doesn't need) while not actually increasing the offensive efficiency of the team the way a different character would, it stays at B according to the evaluation critera I listed in the OP.

I think it might be possible to use the salarian engineer in ways that will really increase your clearing efficiency, but I haven't actually found/run them yet.

I can see this if the only thing being worried about here is Gold speed runs but that is not what the majority of people spend their time doing.  Also you can't always assume you're going to have optimal synergy within a squad.  

Engineers are second only to Infiltrators at being able to be the last one still on their feet if things go ****** up and are much better able to take out the trash while still having incinerate for the big guys.  Well barring the poor sad Quarian.

[Highlord Heian]

Salarian Engineer in "B" tier?

Yeah I've seen all I need to see from this list.

[molecularman]

Hmh, salarian engineer really might not be that necessary for a good team and doesn't offer much offensive value. So maybe tier B is justified.

[Elite3141]

RenegadeVA wrote...

...SE HV AA are hands down the best classes. 

Stuff like SE, HE, HA, DA, AV, QI are all pretty good.
...

Dear god, so many abbreviations. I can almost understand it without stopping to think. And you forgot to mention Salarian Infiltrator. Easily solos Gold.

Also, does anyone have a video of an Asari Vanguard on Gold? Searching YouTube just came up with Asari Vanguards Stasis sniping on Bronze. I had the feeling it was just a Stasis spammer and couldn't do much else.

[jaydubs67]

Elite3141 wrote...

RenegadeVA wrote...

...SE HV AA are hands down the best classes. 

Stuff like SE, HE, HA, DA, AV, QI are all pretty good.
...

Dear god, so many abbreviations. I can almost understand it without stopping to think. And you forgot to mention Salarian Infiltrator. Easily solos Gold.

Also, does anyone have a video of an Asari Vanguard on Gold? Searching YouTube just came up with Asari Vanguards Stasis sniping on Bronze. I had the feeling it was just a Stasis spammer and couldn't do much else.

http://social.biowar...ndex/11154386/1 

[GodlessPaladin]

Elite3141 wrote...

RenegadeVA wrote...

...SE HV AA are hands down the best classes. 

Stuff like SE, HE, HA, DA, AV, QI are all pretty good.
...

Dear god, so many abbreviations. I can almost understand it without stopping to think. And you forgot to mention Salarian Infiltrator. Easily solos Gold.

Also, does anyone have a video of an Asari Vanguard on Gold? Searching YouTube just came up with Asari Vanguards Stasis sniping on Bronze. I had the feeling it was just a Stasis spammer and couldn't do much else.

I have a video of myself soloing Gold as an Asari Vanguard.  Enjoy.  http://social.biowar.../index/11154386

molecularman wrote...

Hmh, salarian engineer really might
not be that necessary for a good team and doesn't offer much offensive
value. So maybe tier B is justified.

That was my reasoning, yes. 

If you are genuinely struggling to beat Gold, though, Salarian Engineer can be a great way to up your game.  It will stop enemies dead in their tracks and give you the freedom to pick them off at your leisure.  It's EASY to use. However, if I'm actually trying to build the most optimal team for a group of highly skilled players who aren't sweating the pressure on Gold anyways, I'm not sure it's actually helping as much as other choices.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 04:34 .

[SKhalazza]

God tier : Salarians engineer/infiltrator
S tier : Asari Adept

You don't have to look at anything else...

[No Snakes Alive]

Turian Sentinel is god tier on Gold, no question. Better defense. Better with weapons. (The only race that can even use some of the better weapons). Spammable Overload.

Turian Soldier would be too, but he needs a good ammo power and Tech teammates to really shine. But it IS a co-op game after all, and with those, he's pretty much even better than your precious Asari Adepts and Salarian Infiltrators.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 08 avril 2012 - 04:54 .

[GodlessPaladin]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Turian Sentinel is god tier on Gold, no question. Better defense. Better with weapons. (The only race that can even use some of the better weapons). Spammable Overload.

Turian Soldier would be too, but he needs a good ammo power and Tech teammates to really shine. But with those, he's pretty much even better than your precious Asari Adepts and Salarian Infiltrators.

I find that kinda hard to swallow.  I don't suppose it would be possible for you to show a video or something of these classes performing to their potential?  Or at the very least give a more detailed explanation / comparison.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 04:58 .

[No Snakes Alive]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Turian Sentinel is god tier on Gold, no question. Better defense. Better with weapons. (The only race that can even use some of the better weapons). Spammable Overload.

Turian Soldier would be too, but he needs a good ammo power and Tech teammates to really shine. But with those, he's pretty much even better than your precious Asari Adepts and Salarian Infiltrators.

I find your claims highly suspect.

Throw a Hornet with an ammo power on a Turian and watch enemies fall on Gold.

Sentinel: Overload obliterates barriers and shields, and stuns enemies long enough for a kill-shot with a sniper rifle or one of those aforementioned guns like the hornet that only a Turian with their vastly improved stability can get the most out of. If "stun-->kill, stun-->kill, stun-->kill, repeat" doesn't make god tier I don't know what does.

Soldier: Concussive shot on like 1 second cooldown detonates Texh bursts. On 1 second cooldown. Again, 1 second cooldown. Couple a Salarian w/ AoE Energy Drain and a Turian and you've got TB's out the a hole. Plus, again, take advantage of Turian stability with the right weapon and ammo, PLUS you can throw Marksman on for the really tough enemies to even further improve their kill rate, and even the toughest foes will drop like flies on Gold.

I'm sure you can find videos of both these classes dominating on Gold if you still don't believe me.

[No Snakes Alive]

Here better yet, I'll find them for you:

[Highlord Heian]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Turian Sentinel is god tier on Gold, no question. Better defense. Better with weapons. (The only race that can even use some of the better weapons). Spammable Overload.

Turian Soldier would be too, but he needs a good ammo power and Tech teammates to really shine. But with those, he's pretty much even better than your precious Asari Adepts and Salarian Infiltrators.

I find that kinda hard to swallow.  I don't suppose it would be possible for you to show a video or something of these classes performing to their potential?  Or at the very least give a more detailed explanation / comparison.

If you can't understand how Turian Sentinel is incredibly versatile in gold, why are you trying to make a tier list?

You don't want somebody who can get +combo damage, +damage on target, +armor weakening, all together with shield-shredding Overload that can be spec'd to be an effective chain-CC, and can work with both tech and biotic teams? An incredibly useful support-and-combo class that strips defenses from major targets for the team.