344 réponses à ce sujet

[No Snakes Alive]

P.S. Drell Adept > Asari Adept, folks.

Come at me, bro.

[iliiillliill]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

Human Infiltrator with GPS or Claymore is better than B tier and also insanely fun. A lot of people seem to be underrating Drell Vanguard and Turian Sentinel so be careful not to do that ;o

Please understand, B tier doesn't mean it's bad.  It means it's almost as good as A tier, but not quite there, because there's something better to use for its role on optimized team configurations (in this case, the Salarian Infiltrator).  In other words, all I'm saying about the Human Infiltrator is that it's not as good as the Salarian Infiltrator.

If you can tell me a strategy that makes the Human Infiltrator really competitive with the Salarian Infiltrator, then I'd be glad to hear it and reconsider my ranking accordingly.

You will note that I have been careful not to underrate the Drell Vanguard and Turian Sentinel... I put them in ? tier.

Salarian Infiltrators?  They used to eat flies, you know.  Really... flies.

[SKhalazza]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

P.S. Drell Adept > Asari Adept, folks.

Come at me, bro.

Can you develop this ? I can't see how the drell can be better. I may be missing something.

[Uh Cold]

lol human infiltrator B tier?
This thread is a joke.

[Verhalthur]

I noticed that the Battlefield 3 Soldier is not on any of these lists.

It seems to me to be around a B, as Carnage give it reliable damage.

Modifié par Verhalthur, 08 avril 2012 - 05:53 .

[elessarz]

The Turian Sentinel has great synergy with pretty much any group, but if you're going for a specialized infiltrator-engineer-adept group I think you could do better with a human vanguard, another adept or another infiltrator.

I play Turian Sentinel the most, and while they have great versatility they still depend on their weapons for that extra damage between cooldowns. The other day I played with a Sentinel rocking a Graal X and he was doing serious work, basically beating everybody in that group (turian soldier, asari adept, quarian engineer - this was versus geth). It may be possible that if using the proper build and weapon a Turian Sentinel can be a kind of magic ingredient that makes the group do everything better.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

IMO...

"A" Tier:
- Salarian Infiltrator... can do it all, rack up kills/support the team/play the medic; excellent class.
- Asari Adept... get a good pistol and she's a stud; invaluable biotic support and individual power.
- Human Vanguard... in the hands of a pro, this player is your ace-in-the-hole.
- Salarian Engineer... decoy works wonders for any team, and has powers to strip any protection.
- Drell Adept... a phenomenal teammate next to another biotic, and can do very respectably on its own.
- Human Sentinel... just a hair behind asari adept for biotic support.

"B" Tier [good, but not great]
- Human Engineer... drone is a poor man's decoy, whilst overload and incinerate are valuable; won't ever be a "force" without sacrificing valuable support or vice versa.
- Human Adept... underrated, only a fair click behind its sentinel counterpart.
- Human Infiltrator ... cryo-blast/sticky is not quite as good as energy-drain/proximity mine, but not too far off either; very flexible too.
- Turian Sentinel ... invaluable support player and often unsung-hero.

"C" Tier [these classes are hit-or-miss or solid-but-unspectacular]
- Quarian Engineer ... surprisingly effective if spec'd right, but therein lacks flexibility to amount to more than just a good hybrid player.
- Turian Soldier ... solid but unspectacular.
- Krogan Soldier ... strength of enemies on gold relegates this class to a good hybrid player at best; rarely placing better than #3.
- Krogan Sentinel ... ditto Krogan Soldier.

"D" Tier [these classes are all but useless]
- Drell Vanguard ... skill-set offers minimal synergy (can only help detonate unprotected enemies with Pull or charging at warped/reaved targets) and is otherwise the least of its Vanguard counterparts in just about every way.
- Human Soldier... awful class, offers you nothing that any other class can't match (grenade, class and fitness) or do better (concussive shot, adrenaline rush).

Unranked: Quarian Infiltrator and Battlefield 3 Soldier. Never play it, myself.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 08 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[CarparkC]

Highlord Heian wrote...

Salarian Engineer in "B" tier?

Yeah I've seen all I need to see from this list.

I admit, I laughed when I saw that. People seriously underestimate him and engineers in general.

Anyway, here's my version of the list for Gold.

A tier:
Asari Adept
Salarian Infiltrator
Salarian Engineer

A- tier:
Drell Adept
Human Sentinel
Asari Vanguard (vs Cerberus and Geth)
Human Vanguard (host only)
Human Engineer
Quarian Infiltrator (Geth)

B tier: 
Human Infiltrator
Quarian Infiltrator (Cerberus)
Turian Sentinel (played basically as Human Engineer with Warp, would be higher if he had a roll)

C tier:
Quarian Engineer
Quarian Infiltrator (Reapers)
Asari Vanguard (Reapers)
Drell Vanguard

D tier:
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Human Soldier

Krogan Soldier

Turian Soldier

Soldiers are bottom cause they are only as good as their weapons are. So they can be good, but only if their weapons allow them to.
Salarian Engineer can kite like 6-8 enemies infinitely, while the rest of the team does whatever. And don't say he is only good against Geth, cause he can do the same thing against every enemy, you just need a properly spec'ed decoy. I remember kiting two Phantoms, two Atalses, Centurion and Nemesis at the same time for 2 minutes by myself.
Quarian Infiltrator is weird, cause that's the only character that gets from useful to nearly useless depending on the enemy. Against Geth she needs to hack Pyros, against Cerberus: Turrets. Hacking is obviously useless against Reapers.
Asari Vanguard is viable against Reapers, but only on some maps and with good weapons. She is somewhat of a controller, effective at killing Cannibals, Marauders and Ravangers (easy to kill them from close range, if they are alone, that's why it is map specific). So she is potentially B-tier.
Krogans are easily worst on Gold. Can't roll away from grenades and can't use melee effectively against Cerberus or Reapers (unless they want to get grabbed or stun locked). They also have no way to drain shields (that's why Turian Sentinel is still good) so they also suck against Geth. Finally they get "outtanked" by Salarian Engineer (who can sidestep BTW), cause shields take too long to recharge normally, while SE simply uses Energy Drain.

[No Snakes Alive]

SKhalazza wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

P.S. Drell Adept > Asari Adept, folks.

Come at me, bro.

Can you develop this ? I can't see how the drell can be better. I may be missing something.

Reave, mostly. It's the Energy Drain of Biotics. An AoE high-damage Biotic Explosion setter-upper and/or detonator that knocks back/stuns on impact and even boosts your defense as icing on the cake (which is admittedly needed because the Drell's armor is made of wet tissue paper).

Clusters also make for a very high damage detonator on the tougher foes and a great gtfo me power for the lesser foes.

Their mobility is also very helpful. With the right squad synergy you should be able to throw out more powerful and more frequent Biotic explosions than even the Asari, though Stasis is admittedly gdlk and pretty unparalleled when it comes to CC. I wouldn't rec them against Geth compared to some other classes, but they do work against Reapers like no other and can handle Cerb well enough.

Both the Asari and Drell are great, but a Drell can really sing in the right hands, though those hands admittedly have to be very careful not to get that Drell hit by a stray bullet or he will surely perish lol (only downside to the class though).

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 08 avril 2012 - 08:07 .

[No Snakes Alive]

CarparkC wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

Salarian Engineer in "B" tier?

Yeah I've seen all I need to see from this list.

I admit, I laughed when I saw that. People seriously underestimate him and engineers in general.

Anyway, here's my version of the list for Gold.

A tier:
Asari Adept
Salarian Infiltrator
Salarian Engineer

A- tier:
Drell Adept
Human Sentinel
Asari Vanguard (vs Cerberus and Geth)
Human Vanguard (host only)
Human Engineer
Quarian Infiltrator (Geth)

B tier: 
Human Infiltrator
Quarian Infiltrator (Cerberus)
Turian Sentinel (played basically as Human Engineer with Warp, would be higher if he had a roll)

C tier:
Quarian Engineer
Quarian Infiltrator (Reapers)
Asari Vanguard (Reapers)
Drell Vanguard

D tier:
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Human Soldier

Krogan Soldier

Turian Soldier

Soldiers are bottom cause they are only as good as their weapons are. So they can be good, but only if their weapons allow them to.
Salarian Engineer can kite like 6-8 enemies infinitely, while the rest of the team does whatever. And don't say he is only good against Geth, cause he can do the same thing against every enemy, you just need a properly spec'ed decoy. I remember kiting two Phantoms, two Atalses, Centurion and Nemesis at the same time for 2 minutes by myself.
Quarian Infiltrator is weird, cause that's the only character that gets from useful to nearly useless depending on the enemy. Against Geth she needs to hack Pyros, against Cerberus: Turrets. Hacking is obviously useless against Reapers.
Asari Vanguard is viable against Reapers, but only on some maps and with good weapons. She is somewhat of a controller, effective at killing Cannibals, Marauders and Ravangers (easy to kill them from close range, if they are alone, that's why it is map specific). So she is potentially B-tier.
Krogans are easily worst on Gold. Can't roll away from grenades and can't use melee effectively against Cerberus or Reapers (unless they want to get grabbed or stun locked). They also have no way to drain shields (that's why Turian Sentinel is still good) so they also suck against Geth. Finally they get "outtanked" by Salarian Engineer (who can sidestep BTW), cause shields take too long to recharge normally, while SE simply uses Energy Drain.

Turian Soldier at the bottom = laughable. To be honest, if you think a soldier is only as good as his weapon you know too little about this to provide valuable input. Concussive shot is the most spammable tech combo detonator in the game and stuns even shielded enemies long enough to kill them with the gdlk weapons that only a Turian soldier can effectively wield (ie Hornet). Throw a great ammo power on a Hornet (AP ftw), team with a Salarian or two, know what you're doing (first and foremost) and voila! Turian Soldier is officially the most OP class in the game on gold.

Edit: Also, Turian Sentinel doesn't even need Warp. Spam Overload and you're a far more durable version of a human Engineer with higher weight capacity who's better with weapons.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 08 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[Highlord Heian]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Edit: Also, Turian Sentinel doesn't even need Warp. Spam Overload and you're a far more durable version of a human Engineer with higher weight capacity who's better with weapons.

Specializing Warp to increase damage to target and weaken armor gives your team a big boost to tearing down hard targets like the Banshee and Atlas, and rip their shields apart with Overload. He's a defense-wrecking machine.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Well, I'm not much of an expert, (I'm only around N7 180) but in my experience, Salarian Engineer and any Infiltrator are the best.

[No Snakes Alive]

Highlord Heian wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Edit: Also, Turian Sentinel doesn't even need Warp. Spam Overload and you're a far more durable version of a human Engineer with higher weight capacity who's better with weapons.

Specializing Warp to increase damage to target and weaken armor gives your team a big boost to tearing down hard targets like the Banshee and Atlas, and rip their shields apart with Overload. He's a defense-wrecking machine.

Also a very viable way to go, for sure, which just goes to show even more how good the class is. I prefer the added layer of defense because Warp is very unecessary with the right weapon and Armor Piercing Ammo.

If you don't have a stockpile of that ammo, though, Warp is indeed awesome.

[Highlord Heian]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Edit: Also, Turian Sentinel doesn't even need Warp. Spam Overload and you're a far more durable version of a human Engineer with higher weight capacity who's better with weapons.

Specializing Warp to increase damage to target and weaken armor gives your team a big boost to tearing down hard targets like the Banshee and Atlas, and rip their shields apart with Overload. He's a defense-wrecking machine.

Also a very viable way to go, for sure, which just goes to show even more how good the class is. I prefer the added layer of defense because Warp is very unecessary with the right weapon and Armor Piercing Ammo.

If you don't have a stockpile of that ammo, though, Warp is indeed awesome.

Armor piercing ammo benefits you.

Warp benefits the whole team, and also increases power damage on the target.

While lacking the simple, direct damage of some classes, Turian Sentinel is loaded with debuffs and utility that increases team effectiveness as a whole. Any team, Biotic or Tech, can benefit from one.

[No Snakes Alive]

Highlord Heian wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Edit: Also, Turian Sentinel doesn't even need Warp. Spam Overload and you're a far more durable version of a human Engineer with higher weight capacity who's better with weapons.

Specializing Warp to increase damage to target and weaken armor gives your team a big boost to tearing down hard targets like the Banshee and Atlas, and rip their shields apart with Overload. He's a defense-wrecking machine.

Also a very viable way to go, for sure, which just goes to show even more how good the class is. I prefer the added layer of defense because Warp is very unecessary with the right weapon and Armor Piercing Ammo.

If you don't have a stockpile of that ammo, though, Warp is indeed awesome.

Armor piercing ammo benefits you.

Warp benefits the whole team, and also increases power damage on the target.

While lacking the simple, direct damage of some classes, Turian Sentinel is loaded with debuffs and utility that increases team effectiveness as a whole. Any team, Biotic or Tech, can benefit from one.

I'm with you on that. Turian Sentinel may just be my pick for overall best class (though it can't quite solo it the same as a SI or AA).

If you like to snipe, ignoring Tech Armor on a Turian Sentinel makes you the best debuff and damage dealer around, and like you said, really benefits the team.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 08 avril 2012 - 11:22 .

[KarmaZ]

To avoid the shockwave bug you should not evolve into radius in rank 4.

Modifié par KarmaZ, 09 avril 2012 - 06:40 .

[Liraelx]

I would say human Adept is A- tier if used well, especially against reapers. Get 3 or more in one team and you have biotic explosions going off pretty much constantly, fun!

[Kulpy]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Ladies and gentleman, because you asked for my opinion, I present you...

GP's really rough draft tier list:

A tier: You can't go wrong with these guys.
Salarian Infiltrator
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

A- tier: As awesome as A when in their element, not so hot when not.
Drell Adept (with good biotic teammates)
Human Sentinel (just as good as Asari Adept against Reapers)
Asari Vanguard (vs Cerberus)
(Edit:  I suppose the Human Vanguard could fall into this category because of the importance of being host as that class, and I suppose even such a metagamey thing could count as "being in their element.")

B tier:  Almost as good as A, but not quite.
Human Infiltrator
Salarian Engineer

C tier: The rest of the crap.
Human Soldier
Krogan Soldier
Turian Soldier
Human Engineer
Quarian Engineer

? tier:  Needs more testing.
Drell Vanguard
Turian Sentinel
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Quarian Infiltrator (I haven't played it much post-patch, so I'd need to re-evaluate it)

Could probably use more info to add more definition to the tiers, particularly C tier (and obviously ? tier).

You could also call these "almost always super-awesome tier, super-awesome in a specific situation tier, awesome but not quite as awesome as that other guy who does my job tier, everything else tier, and stuff GP hasn't played a hundred times in a hundred different ways tier."

__________________________________________________________________________________


This tier list is built upon the following conceits:

-All characters are assumed to be used with a high level of execution, for the same reason that every halfway respectable and respected tier list doesn't take "ease of use" into account.  I assume that Infiltrators are capable of getting headshots, Vanguards are capable of dodging melee staggers and tanking properly, Asari can tell when to use Warp or Throw, et cetera.

-With a high level of execution, you will usually win Gold with any class, against any faction.  Therefore, talking about the highest chance of victory seems a bit irrelevant... all of them are something like 99% if you've got 4 people who really know what they're doing, even if everyone's a Turian Soldier or whatever.  Instead, I look at which classes clear out the challenges most reliably and efficiently.

-You have access to items that synergize with these classes and use them.

-Tiers are about effectiveness, not how fun a class is to play.  That's not saying that how fun a class is to play for you doesn't matter (it matters a lot!), but it does mean that it's irrelevant to this topic.

Remember people, you can beat or even solo Gold with every class, and ultimately player skill and cooperation is more important than class choice.

Also, I'd be glad to provide more information regarding which strategies make the various classes work highly competitively, both in solo gold runs and on teams.  I also would be glad for constructive input regarding strategies I may have missed, especially for the ? tier (while I have a lot of experience with every class, I have less with them, and haven't tried out all the possibilities and approaches with them yet).

the human infil when you do not use grenades can be really good, the cryo is able to weaken armor and slow enemies and with the tac cloak fire then power usage its easy to take down the heavy armor targets like banshees brutes primes and atlases. For example on gold the cyro lets you take down 1-2 more bars of armor. thats helpful in my opinion

Modifié par Kulpy, 09 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[Ender1221]

I'm sure this has already been said, but...

Why, exactly, is Salarian Engineer listed below Drell Adept. I absolutely LOVE my Drell Adept and I do NOT want people to think I am hating on him, but he is absolutely NOT better than Salarian Engineer. I have beat Gold several times with the Drell Adept (and am usually second in points, not that it matters), but SE can handle any enemy faction and provide excellent support in any situation. They are not going to be your top scorers like the Salarian Infiltrator, but they can CC anybody, even mini-bosses, and, given enough time, can solo said mini-bosses. The same can not be said about the Drell Adept.

I just don't feel it's right to list a self-reliant and dependable class lower than a class that is largely dependent on other players playing a certain class/style in order to be effective. I personally think any class that is only good if certain conditions are met should not be A-tier. "A" should be reserved for classes that can hold their own and succeed in most any situation and against any enemy. If you have to worry that another player's style may cause you to be ineffective, then you are not playing with an "A" level character.

Just my humble opinion of course. Do not mean to detract from the OP, just respectfully disagree.

[GodlessPaladin]

SKhalazza wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

P.S. Drell Adept > Asari Adept, folks.

Come at me, bro.

Can you develop this ? I can't see how the drell can be better. I may be missing something.

Yeah, my response to any brief claims like this will be "please provide more information."  I am wholly willing to accept that I've missed something (in fact, I've pretty much assumed I HAVE missed something with the ? tier characters), but if you just tell me "X > Y" that doesn't actually help me refine the list.  I need to see builds, strategies, videos, or SOMETHING.  And then I will field test those things and compare the results with other classes that fill similar roles.

Anyways, the contention in the currently written tier list isn't that Asari Adepts are better for biotic teams.  It's that Asari Adepts are amazing in more team / enemy setups than the drell adept.

Ender1221 wrote...

I'm sure this has already been said, but...

  I have already given some more detailed responses to this, which ca be found earlier in the thread.

Why,
exactly, is Salarian Engineer listed below Drell Adept. I absolutely
LOVE my Drell Adept and I do NOT want people to think I am hating on
him, but he is absolutely NOT better than Salarian Engineer. I have
beat Gold several times with the Drell Adept (and am usually second in
points, not that it matters), but SE can handle any enemy faction and
provide excellent support in any situation. They are not going to be
your top scorers like the Salarian Infiltrator, but they can CC anybody,
even mini-bosses, and, given enough time, can solo said mini-bosses.
The same can not be said about the Drell Adept.

  The drell adept on a good biotic strike team will kill thingsso fast they can't mount a real offensive anyways, and dead enemies > tanked enemies.  Also compare to the A rank tank, which can instantly grab aggro from a large group in pretty much any situation and pound their faces in at the same time.

I just
don't feel it's right to list a self-reliant and dependable class lower
than a class that is largely dependent on other players playing a
certain class/style in order to be effective.

  The "reliant on others" part is why it's in the A minus tier.  A- means "A rank only in the right team/enemy setups."  In a biotic strike team, I've seen Drell Adepts kill things so fast that one might even say that a Salarian Engineer's lockdown wouldn't even have time to really matter.

However, given factors like the recent buffs to non-biotic explosions, I have already said that the tech-y guys might warrant some more testing.  As of yet I haven't been able to get enough competent tech-using players together  at the same time to try out any of my theories though, and until I have actually seen Salarian Engineers clearing things with a speed comparable to Drell Adepts I can't really justify the A rank placement.

I personally think any class that is only good if certain
conditions are met should not be A-tier. "A" should be reserved for
classes that can hold their own and succeed in most any situation and
against any enemy. If you have to worry that another player's style may
cause you to be ineffective, then you are not playing with an "A" level
character.

  Uh... the A tier is reserved for that?  Drell Adept is A-
I think you may have misread something. 

Kulpy wrote...

the human infil when you do not use
grenades can be really good, the cryo is able to weaken armor and slow
enemies and with the tac cloak fire then power usage its easy to take
down the heavy armor targets like banshees brutes primes and atlases.
For example on gold the cyro lets you take down 1-2 more bars of armor.
thats helpful in my opinion

Again:  B tier is the tier for "really damn good, but not quite as good as this option right here for your optimized team." I have yet to see any Human Infiltrator build/strategy that outperformed the predominant Salarian Infiltrator builds and strategies.

The Salarian Infiltrator's Proximity Mine weakens *everything* not just armor, and does some nice damage on its own, and he gets Energy Drain too.

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Well, I'm not much of an expert,
(I'm only around N7 180) but in my experience, Salarian Engineer and any
Infiltrator are the best.

It could be argued that they're easier to use than biotic combo teams and vanguards. 
With a team of sufficiently good players, the power of those classes
will quickly become overwhelmingly apparent when you're making clusters
of reapers evaporate the moment you see them and clearing Gold Reapers
with full extraction in well under 20 minutes.

As noted in the OP, the tier list assumes highly competent execution.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 04:31 .

[GodlessPaladin]

I've got some ideas for optimized run strategies using Salarian Engineers, but I need some highly competent XBL players willing to help test things out. Ideally a team of people with enough skill for each to solo gold.

[Highlord Heian]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
The Salarian Infiltrator's Proximity Mine weakens *everything* not just armor, and does some nice damage on its own, and he gets Energy Drain too.

Meanwhile, at Turian Soldier, the absolute bottom of your list...

They have the exact same ability.

And proximity mine is an ability most SI will just skip altogether. So, not sure what this "tier list" is based off of, but it sure doesn't seem to be actual experience with each class.

[GodlessPaladin]

Highlord Heian wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
The Salarian Infiltrator's Proximity Mine weakens *everything* not just armor, and does some nice damage on its own, and he gets Energy Drain too.

Meanwhile, at Turian Soldier, the absolute bottom of your list...

They have the exact same ability.

They don't have that ability matched with Tactical Cloak (which increases the damage and decreases the cooldown of proximity mine), Energy Drain, and the ability to dodge.

I mean... are you seriously suggesting that Turian Soldiers and Salarian Infiltrators are equal because they share one ability?  Because that's... that's just stupid. 

And proximity mine is an ability most SI will just skip
altogether. So, not sure what this "tier list" is based off of, but it
sure doesn't seem to be actual experience with each class.

  I almost always outscore (often double the score, actually) of other SIs and I took Proximity Mine.  If you'd like, I could upload a video of my gameplay with an SI.

I do not care one whit what "most people" take.  "Most people" play Vanguards like idiots and run off and suicide.  <_<

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 04:53 .

[ZombiesNBacon]

http://social.biowar...index/9465718/1
http://social.biowar...3/index/9894174

These are better tier list and they were done a month ago.

[GodlessPaladin]

ZombiesNBacon wrote...

http://social.biowar...index/9465718/1
http://social.biowar...3/index/9894174

These are better tier list and they were done a month ago.

Those lists contradict each other.  For example, one says that the Drellguard is amazing, the other says it is the worst thing ever.

I might also add that my list is obviously incomplete.  It says "really rought draft" for a reason.  In order to finish it to my satisfaction, I feel that I would need meaningful feedback from the community.   However, so far mostly I've just gotten comments like "wtf my favorite class isn't rated the best" or "this is better than this because I said so."  I need actual data input here.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 05:01 .