344 réponses à ce sujet

[ZombiesNBacon]

Regardless those two OPs have recorded the fastest Gold times ever so I'll take their word over yours anyday. You're also about 1 month too late and you probably read their threads before posting this anyway.

[TLK Spires]

this isn't a fighting game, buddy. go back to srk if you wanna post ****ty tier lists.

[darkblade]

Im actually surprised human Infiltrator isnt in A teir, Its perhaps the most solid stand alone class other then a salarian an adept or human vanguard.

The are deadly against every faction and equally, they dont excel against any one factor because they perform the same against all the factions. Range speced cryoblast is crowd control on par with range spec pull except it still affects shielded foes.

direct sticks on armored enemies do huge damage, and Cloak - Sniper shots are just big damage all around. You just cant go wrong with the class against any faction.

Same deal with human adept, a huge crowd control power on a 1 sec cooldown, Human adept is a monster....you can set off a detonation of any of their powers with any other of their powers just about.

[Sabresandiego]

This tier list is not terrible, but it is extremely incomplete. And human infiltrators are drastically undervalued.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

TLK Spires wrote...

this isn't a fighting game, buddy. go back to srk if you wanna post ****ty tier lists.

Go back to Gears of war if you don't want tier list

[GodlessPaladin]

Sabresandiego wrote...

This tier list is not terrible, but it is extremely incomplete. And human infiltrators are drastically undervalued.

No **** it's incomplete.  It bloody well says so on the OP.  I am getting really tired of  seeing inane comments like this.  They're redundant and entirely useless.  You're not giving an insightful view by saying "it's incomplete" or "I think this class is rated wrong but won't give reasons why."  It's incomplete because I am not trying to produce something where I just plot out my unsubstantiated ballpark opinion on a chart (and unless you're claiming that you've actually extensively and comparatively tested every class on every faction against every other class with various high performing strategies, then that's what most of the other tier lists represent, especially when filling out the list with less-frequently-used classes)

So you think "super awesome but not quite as awesome as Salarian Infiltrators" is "drastically undervalued."

Yet again, I have to ask, WHY?  For the nth time, support your argument and I will change things.  Don't and I will ignore you.

People shouting their opinions does not actually help anything at all.  I have asked for additional input here many times, and yet it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to give any other than shouting their conclusions repeatedly. 

I'm sorry to get upset, but it just gets frustrating.

ZombiesNBacon wrote...

Regardless those two OPs have
recorded the fastest Gold times ever so I'll take their word over yours
anyday. You're also about 1 month too late and you probably read their
threads before posting this anyway.

I've gotten 18 minutes, and I don't actually have a consistent team to run with yet (I just find pubs with mics, see if they're willing to follow a strategy I suggest, and hope for the best).  I'd probably go even faster if I could find more reliable people to play with.  Moreover, yet again, sincetheir views are contradictory, you can't actually trust both of them for their views on every class in the game without being hypocritical.  You cannot reconcile the statements that one guy says Drell Vanguards are awesome and Soldiers are terribad with another guy claiming Drell Vanguards are terribad and soldiers are top tier.

Also, the comment about being one month too late is just idiotic for all the obvious reasons.  You are obviously reaching for excuses to act hostile and unconstructive, however silly they might be.

If anything, a more recent, updated tier list is advantageous, because of the continuing balance changes.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 06:51 .

[Sabresandiego]

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 09 avril 2012 - 06:39 .

[KarmaZ]

For those who are missing the point here.

The reason that salarian engineers are on B tier is because it is not the best class for offensive efficiency.

SE is an extremely versatile class that you can play with almost any sorts of random players and carry them to victory with little effort, but that's about it.

It may not be the most optimal class if you are aiming for maximum clear speed efficiency.
Afterall, it's a defensive class, sure it can dominate in every game, but if we are talking about speed, Salarian Engineer is indeed only a B tier.

Check out some of the speed running vids, how many of them involved using SE?

Though this is arguable because a major portion of those time records are achieved with a series of timing > spawn blocking > spawn focusing > cobra missiles spam on enemy spawns. Well personally I don't really enjoy playing like this myself / watching speed run vids playing like this, it kind of kills the point of doing speed runs, but well the speed runners have done a hell of a job nevertheless.

In Killing Floor we didn't need wimpy instant kill rockets like these, all I need is an Axe and a Hunting Shotgun.

I would love to see how fast we can do without using any of these overpowered nuke rockets.

[GodlessPaladin]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Thank you very much for actually providing me with some information.  These are the kinds of comments I need to improve the tier list.   I'll try this out.

However, could you explain why you feel the human provides advantages over the Salarian Infiltrator as a Claymore Infiltrator?  Do you recommend any equipment I should use during tests against various factions?

KarmaZ wrote...

For those who are missing the point here.

The reason that salarian engineers are on B tier is because it is not the best class for offensive efficiency.

SE
is an extremely versatile class that you can play with almost any sorts
of random players and carry them to victory with little effort, but
that's about it.

It may not be the most optimal class if you are aiming for maximum clear speed efficiency.
Afterall,
it's a defensive class, sure it can dominate in every game, but if we
are talking about speed, Salarian Engineer is indeed only a B tier.

Check out some of the speed running vids, how many of them involved using SE?

Though
this is arguable because a major portion of those time records are
achieved with a series of timing > spawn blocking > spawn focusing
> cobra missiles spam on enemy spawns. Well personally I don't
really enjoy playing like this myself / watching speed run vids playing
like this, it kind of kills the point of doing speed runs, but well the
speed runners have done a hell of a job nevertheless.

In Killing Floor we didn't need wimpy instant kill rockets like these, all I need is an Axe and a Hunting Shotgun.

I would love to see how fast we can do without using any of these overpowered nuke rockets.

What console do you play on?  As I said before, I'm really looking to find more people to play with on XBL.  All of my friends got the PC version (I didn't because I had gotten ME1 for the Xbox for Christmas way back when, and I can't very well not finish the fight with my ME1 shepard!)

And yes, you have summarized the reasoning I used for my ranking of Salarian Engineers.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[Sabresandiego]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Thank you very much for actually providing me with some information.   I'll try this out.

However, could you explain why you feel the human provides advantages over the Salarian Infiltrator as a Claymore Infiltrator?  Do you recommend any equipment I should use during tests against various factions?

Incendiary rounds incase a few pellets miss and ur target survives with some health, he will burn to death

Shotgun Rail Amp

Adrenaline Module

Playing at medium to close range eliminates the one weakness of cryoblast, its travel time, and aside from that the ability is insane good when specd for a 35% boost to damage on the target. Take radius as well. The power of this setup also comes from cloak, burst damage, evade and reload cancel, burst damage, cloak

[KarmaZ]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Agreed, Claymore Infiltrator is unbeatably fun, and you won't need either weight upgrades too.
There is actually a thread about infiltrators with GPS/Claymore, people like Zombie made some good points there.
I think you might want to have a look.

Well I do not excel at GPS so I am sticking with Claymore's conveniences.

Modifié par KarmaZ, 09 avril 2012 - 06:49 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Sabresandiego wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Thank you very much for actually providing me with some information.   I'll try this out.

However, could you explain why you feel the human provides advantages over the Salarian Infiltrator as a Claymore Infiltrator?  Do you recommend any equipment I should use during tests against various factions?

Incendiary rounds incase a few pellets miss and ur target survives with some health, he will burn to death

Shotgun Rail Amp

Adrenaline Module

Playing at medium to close range eliminates the one weakness of cryoblast, its travel time, and aside from that the ability is insane good when specd for a 35% boost to damage on the target. Take radius as well. The power of this setup also comes from cloak, burst damage, evade and reload cancel, burst damage, cloak

I'm curious, what is the purpose of Tactical Cloak 6?  Obviously the sniper rifle damage bonus is irrelevant, and you can Cryo Blast --> Shoot without Bonus Power.  

[Sargaz]

explain human vanguard please all ive ever seen from vanguards were retards flying in and dying :X

[KarmaZ]

double posted sorry

Modifié par KarmaZ, 09 avril 2012 - 06:59 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Sargaz wrote...

explain human vanguard please all ive ever seen from vanguards were retards flying in and dying :X

Sabresandiego has a good quality vid on this subject.



Vanguards bring a few things to the field:
-Incredible tanking and crowd control potential, continuously staggerring groups of enemies  wherever you need things locked down at a moment's notice.
-Fantastic mobility.
-Good damage on their own.
-They act as continuous triggers for all four types of combo detonations.

[KarmaZ]

GodlessPaladin  wrote...

KarmaZ wrote...

For those who are missing the point here.

The reason that salarian engineers are on B tier is because it is not the best class for offensive efficiency.

SE
is an extremely versatile class that you can play with almost any sorts
of random players and carry them to victory with little effort, but
that's about it.

It may not be the most optimal class if you are aiming for maximum clear speed efficiency.
Afterall,
it's a defensive class, sure it can dominate in every game, but if we
are talking about speed, Salarian Engineer is indeed only a B tier.

Check out some of the speed running vids, how many of them involved using SE?

Though
this is arguable because a major portion of those time records are
achieved with a series of timing > spawn blocking > spawn focusing
> cobra missiles spam on enemy spawns. Well personally I don't
really enjoy playing like this myself / watching speed run vids playing
like this, it kind of kills the point of doing speed runs, but well the
speed runners have done a hell of a job nevertheless.

In Killing Floor we didn't need wimpy instant kill rockets like these, all I need is an Axe and a Hunting Shotgun.

I would love to see how fast we can do without using any of these overpowered nuke rockets.

What console do you play on?  As I said before, I'm really looking to find more people to play with on XBL.  All of my friends got the PC version (I didn't because I had gotten ME1 for the Xbox for Christmas way back when, and I can't very well not finish the fight with my ME1 shepard!)

And yes, you have summarized the reasoning I used for my ranking of Salarian Engineers.

I play on PC unfortunately.
As for the HI's cloak rank 6 you ask, well cryo blast takes forever to reach it's target, so bonus power evolution really makes up for it, and there is no reaspn to choose bonus sniper damage.

Modifié par KarmaZ, 09 avril 2012 - 07:00 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Holy crap the Human Infiltrator with Sabresandiego's build is awesome. I just soloed Gold Cerberus with it and it was a snap (I died right at the end of wave 6 due to a single stupid mistake getting me oneshotted by a phantom, but I definitely saw where the road was going and am sure I'll be successful on future attempts), and I never even played shotgun infiltrators before.  I can only imagine it would be even handier against Reapers, who make sniping more troublesome than usual.  I am convinced at least that it is amazng for solos.  I still need to test it with teams and see how it does with speed.

In my test:
-Enemies, including guardians and centurions were going down in one shot at medium range with no need for headshots.
-Atlasses were going down about as fast with the Claymore X as when I was using the BW1 with my Salarian Infiltrator, and I didn't need to be close to them at all.
-You could pound out those shots pretty quickly, moving from enemy to enemy quite fast.
-Phantoms had some weird glitch where their health bars looked weird that I've never seen before.  While I missed my ability to kill them outright with a Proximity Mine trap --> Energy Drain tech burst, they got floored by a single headshot.  Admittedly, I wasn't getting that headshot often (darn controllers instead of keyboard and mouse) but the potential is definitely there.
-You're very safe and survivable, despite the close range encounters encouraged by the strategy.
-Human rolls seem better than Salarian side shuffles.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 09:42 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Here's the problem with a tier-list for this sort of thing. A tier list is only supposed to represent a character used to the best of its ability, and in a co-op game of this nature, a lot of factors including team construction play into a character being utilized to its maximum potential. There's too much to reliably calculate.

Can a Salarian Infiltrator solo Gold with ease? Pretty much. The class can also contribute a lot to a team, being better equipped to hack objectives and raise fallen teammates than the rest, as well as deal massive damage.

With that said, a Turian Soldier on a team of Salarian Infiltrators SHOULD by all means out perform them. Between all the tech bursts Concussive Shot can trigger off the constant Energy Drains to faster kill speeds with a weapon like a hornet with AP Ammo, the Soldier should absolutely dominate.

How do you figure the Salarian is the better of the two based on how much more well-equipped it is to stand alone when it's a co-op game and we're talking tier lists, which by their very nature disregard the ability to solo it. We might get some healthy discussions out of this that will open people's eyes to classes they never considered the true potential of, but we'll never be able to come up with a definitive tier list.

[wilzoon]

My problem with Human vanguard being at the top tier (same lvl as infiltrator) is that they are very dependant on other classes (eg. to set up the biotic combo), even more so than asari adept.

I think even asari adept has better chance of soloing gold than Human vanguard.

[CV77]

Nah, there are only two groups - Asari Adepts and then the rest

Not that SI or HV are bad but they take some skill to play well. AAs are OP because you can be spamming combos and headshotting mooks trapped in Stasis with one thumb up in your ass and the other in your nose.

Modifié par CV77, 09 avril 2012 - 12:01 .

[astheoceansblue]

Turian Soldier with Carnifax and maxed p.mine is /easily/ as good as the classes you've put in A-.

Easily.

[brummbrumm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Thank you very much for actually providing me with some information.   I'll try this out.

However, could you explain why you feel the human provides advantages over the Salarian Infiltrator as a Claymore Infiltrator?  Do you recommend any equipment I should use during tests against various factions?

Incendiary rounds incase a few pellets miss and ur target survives with some health, he will burn to death

Shotgun Rail Amp

Adrenaline Module

Playing at medium to close range eliminates the one weakness of cryoblast, its travel time, and aside from that the ability is insane good when specd for a 35% boost to damage on the target. Take radius as well. The power of this setup also comes from cloak, burst damage, evade and reload cancel, burst damage, cloak

That is my favourite loadout - shame I did not stumble upon it earlier. However, personally I suspect that sticky grenade 3 is not really making that much of a dent and will go for fitness 6 next time.

[ezrafetch]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Just when I burned my last card and respec'd my Infiltrator away from 6 Cryo (theoretically I could promote, but bleh)... 

Currently running:
5 Cloak
3 Cryo
6 Sticky
6 Alliance
6 Fitness

Went for super stickies (fully upgraded stickies will tear through a target), though 6 Cryo has more utility. Cloak + Sticky + Claymore shot (I run with Smart Choke + Shredder mod) should pretty much take down any armored target in 1-2 cloak cycles max. Since you're so close, I suppose it helps Cryo a lot but it certainly helps you plant your stickies with better accuracy. I feel like Cloak lets you get the time to pull off your shots well enough, though I can see why Cryo would make it a lot easier (and would let you get away much faster to reload).

I'll admit, I've been hesitant to take non-Snipz Infils into Gold, but I'm going to start doing so, especially hearing how well they always do, and now since I got upgraded to a Claymore IV instead of the 3 characters I'm still missing.  But I will agree, Shotty Infils are awesome. Very, very underrated.

[GodlessPaladin]

ezrafetch wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Human Infiltrator:
6 Cloak
6 Cryo
3 Sticky
6 Alliance
5 Fitness

Weapon: Claymore

cloak -> cryoblast -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel -> shoot -> reload and take cover -> reload cancel with cloak and repeat

Throw stickies when enemies are bunched. This is my favorite class to play when I am not hosting. The class excels against all factions.

Just when I burned my last card and respec'd my Infiltrator away from 6 Cryo (theoretically I could promote, but bleh)... 

Currently running:
5 Cloak
3 Cryo
6 Sticky
6 Alliance
6 Fitness

Went for super stickies (fully upgraded stickies will tear through a target), though 6 Cryo has more utility. Cloak + Sticky + Claymore shot (I run with Smart Choke + Shredder mod) should pretty much take down any armored target in 1-2 cloak cycles max. Since you're so close, I suppose it helps Cryo a lot but it certainly helps you plant your stickies with better accuracy. I feel like Cloak lets you get the time to pull off your shots well enough, though I can see why Cryo would make it a lot easier (and would let you get away much faster to reload).

I'll admit, I've been hesitant to take non-Snipz Infils into Gold, but I'm going to start doing so, especially hearing how well they always do, and now since I got upgraded to a Claymore IV instead of the 3 characters I'm still missing.  But I will agree, Shotty Infils are awesome. Very, very underrated.

I can vouch from my testing so far that they're pretty badass and definitely viable on Gold.  However, I still have't been able to get mine to perform on the same level as my Black Widow SI, Carnifex AA, or Whatever HV in team games yet.  Same as with my GPS Salarian Engineer.

Still practicing with it though.

The issues I face, compared to, say, the SI are thus:
-I have to run to the target.  With the BW I don't.  This gives me an advantage both in time to kill, and in maneuvering.
-I kill things slower than with a Black Widow (which is giving me at least 2 kills per cloak cycle), except for the occasional times I headshot phantoms when their barrier thingies aren't up, and those phantoms are dangerous to be in close on.
-The damage increase from the cryo blast is nice, but Proximity Mine gives me a handy damage increase too, even if it's not as much, and does a good deal of collateral damage.
-I miss being able to floor phantoms with proximity mine / energy drain tech bursts.
-Stickies don't actually seem to do much.  Do they benefit from the cloak damage bonus?
-I miss setting up and triggerring combos for my team with Energy Drain and Prox Mine.
-Swarmers were a **** on my test with Gold Reapers Glacier.
-If you can quick-scope  then you don't have a close-range disadvantage using a BW over a Claymore.
-multiple shots mean mistakes mean less, and everyone, even the best players, make occasional mistakes.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 02:37 .