344 réponses à ce sujet

[Adragalus]

t6skyart wrote...

Human engineer in c tier? You'll regret that when the next human engineer you see saves you from a group of banshees with a simple drone, and stuns entire groups of marauders with chain overload just so you can rack up all the kills.

I primarily play Humengineer, and this ^

[fluffmoresheep]

Salarian Engineer is A- or higher. Everything else I agree with or don't have enough experience with to disagree with.

EDIT: Human engineer should probably move up to B tier. Or maybe Sal Eng is good in B after all. Meh. If the criterium for the list is "makes the game easier for the team", then my gut feeling is that Sal Eng is A-, cause he's amazing if you have one, but multiples don't really work that well.

Modifié par fluffmoresheep, 09 avril 2012 - 04:24 .

[sp0ck 06]

Am I the only player who gets a lot of use out of the human adept? I rack up huge point totals with that class on silver/gold.

[DeathScepter]

I have seen really good Krogan Sentinels on bronze before. I do respect the Turian Sentinels as well.

[Highlord Heian]

Adragalus wrote...

t6skyart wrote...

Human engineer in c tier? You'll regret that when the next human engineer you see saves you from a group of banshees with a simple drone, and stuns entire groups of marauders with chain overload just so you can rack up all the kills.

I primarily play Humengineer, and this ^

Human Engineer is one of my favorites and I agree. Every ability they have is useful. Combat Drone automatically spawns behind whatever you're targeting - so popping it behind an Atlas, for instance, gives you about 10 seconds while the thing slowly turns around.

This tier list is riddled with...wrongness.

[GodlessPaladin]

fluffmoresheep wrote...

Salarian Engineer is A- or higher. Everything else I agree with or don't have enough experience with to disagree with.

EDIT: Human engineer should probably move up to B tier. Or maybe Sal Eng is good in B after all. Meh. If the criterium for the list is "makes the game easier for the team", then my gut feeling is that Sal Eng is A-, cause he's amazing if you have one, but multiples don't really work that well.

The criterium are clearly laid out in the OP, and it seems pretty clear you didn't read them (including the point that A- means "A tier, but only in a specific matchup.  B tier is the "really damn good, but just shy of A tier" rank).  Also, other posters as well as myself have pointed out why exactly the Salarian Engineer is in B tier. If you object to the points we made, please address them, rather than just saying you disagree with the rank.

Until you can actually provide an ARGUMENT rather than a just contrary conclusion, you will be ignored.

sp0ck 06 wrote...



Am I the only player who gets a lot of
use out of the human adept? I rack up huge point totals with that class
on silver/gold.

I don't know how many times I can repeat myself.  Simply saying you like a class does not provide anyone
with any useful information.  You have to actually provide supporting information for any conclusion.  This isn't a super-hard concept.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 04:38 .

[Highlord Heian]

DeathScepter wrote...

I have seen really good Krogan Sentinels on bronze before. I do respect the Turian Sentinels as well.

Just about anything can do really well on Bronze.

[GodlessPaladin]

Highlord Heian wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

I have seen really good Krogan Sentinels on bronze before. I do respect the Turian Sentinels as well.

Just about anything can do really well on Bronze.

Very much so.   And not only that... anything can do really well on gold, too.  "Can do well" is not the same as "can do better."  I've played Human Soldiers and Quarian Engineers at level *1* and gotten the highest score by a longshot in gold PuG games, and that's because some skill and a good weapon is enough to outperform the masses.  Likewise, you should be able to find videos of people doing such things all around youtube if you look around a bit.  There's even a thread currently on the first page with a screenshot of some guy with a low level soldier getting a far, far higher score than his teammates.

Incidentally, the point that any and all classes can succeed in gold is noted in the OP, which a lot of people don't seem to actually bother to read before responding to it. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 05:45 .

[ezrafetch]

GodlessPaladin wrote...


I can vouch from my testing so far that they're pretty badass and definitely viable on Gold.  However, I still have't been able to get mine to perform on the same level as my Black Widow SI, Carnifex AA, or Whatever HV in team games yet.  Same as with my GPS Salarian Engineer.

Thanks, will definitely start taking it into Gold runs.

-Stickies don't actually seem to do much.  Do they benefit from the cloak damage bonus?

As far as I know, the Cloak bonus applies to stickies. So my Cloak cycles, as I mentioned before, are Cloak > Sticky > Claymore. I roll with Damage+Armor Piercing+Damage (levels 4, 5, 6). So against, like, Brutes, Atlases and Banshees, my Cloak cycles load on tons of damage when they're at their armor. It's more difficult to deal with the protections, but once you deal with it, you're virtually home free in 10 seconds max.

I would probably say that a Shotgun Infiltrator is probably not designed to carry a team, though. Just seems to be much more of a flanking playstyle, which doesn't really lend itself to team carrying as long as your team plays decently well. 

Modifié par ezrafetch, 09 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[Highlord Heian]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
The Salarian Infiltrator's Proximity Mine weakens *everything* not just armor, and does some nice damage on its own, and he gets Energy Drain too.

Meanwhile, at Turian Soldier, the absolute bottom of your list...

They have the exact same ability.

They don't have that ability matched with Tactical Cloak (which increases the damage and decreases the cooldown of proximity mine), Energy Drain, and the ability to dodge.

I mean... are you seriously suggesting that Turian Soldiers and Salarian Infiltrators are equal because they share one ability?  Because that's... that's just stupid. 

Using that single ability as an example for a class's exceptional usefulness against enemies for one class, but somehow damning for another class? Because that's...that's just stupid.

And no, did I say that was the only thing Turian Soldier had? Did all the people mentioning the appearance of the best Soldier race at the bottom say that? Quite not, thought you did seem to conveniently ignore that.

I'm not going to make the argument for Turian Soldier all over again here. And honestly, if you think it needs to be made, your experience with Turian Soldier is truly lacking.

And proximity mine is an ability most SI will just skip
altogether. So, not sure what this "tier list" is based off of, but it
sure doesn't seem to be actual experience with each class.

  I almost always outscore (often double the score, actually) of other SIs and I took Proximity Mine.  If you'd like, I could upload a video of my gameplay with an SI.

I do not care one whit what "most people" take.  "Most people" play Vanguards like idiots and run off and suicide.  <_<

If you're choosing Proximity mine to open up with sniping, you're clearly not making the best choices for your team - and I doubt Proximity Mine's damage was attributing half of your alleged points in your somewhat dubious example.

Considering Energy Drain's effect, when used with the increased radius, can trigger a tech burst on any of the affected units, not just the primary, and the stagger effect is far more predictable and beneficial - considering it drains shields, and you should be able to one-shot non-bosses without their shields - benefits a team moreso.
20% extra damage which causes a non-uniform stagger effect and unpredictable pathing, getting caught on nearby surfaces. And a straight-on toward the target Prox Mine has a good chance of passing through anything but Brutes and Atlas Mechs for no collision and detonation.

Honestly I don't know why I'm bothering to explain these differences to you. If you haven't tried different combinations or races and classes, that's not really a problem. There's so much wrong with it at this point that it's not worth trying to correct.

[GodlessPaladin]

Highlord Heian wrote...
Using that single ability as an example for a class's exceptional usefulness against enemies for one class, but somehow damning for another class? Because that's...that's just stupid.

  Whee, straw man argument.  Stopped reading there.  If you want me to argue with you, you have to argue against things I *actually say.*  That's just basic civility.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 04:57 .

[Highlord Heian]

ezrafetch wrote...

-Stickies don't actually seem to do much.  Do they benefit from the cloak damage bonus?

As far as I know, the Cloak bonus applies to stickies. So my Cloak cycles, as I mentioned before, are Cloak > Sticky > Claymore. I roll with Damage+Armor Piercing+Damage (levels 4, 5, 6). So against, like, Brutes, Atlases and Banshees, my Cloak cycles load on tons of damage when they're at their armor. It's more difficult to deal with the protections, but once you deal with it, you're virtually home free in 10 seconds max.

I would probably say that a Shotgun Infiltrator is probably not designed to carry a team, though. Just seems to be much more of a flanking playstyle, which doesn't really lend itself to team carrying as long as your team plays decently well. 

Cloak bonus applies to stickies. I went through all of SP as an infiltrator so I started MP as a human inf, and I noticed a marked difference in damage for grenades in and out of cloak.

The only thing I wasn't able to test properly was if "headshot" damage applied if you stuck a target's head. I doubt it, but it was worth a shot.

[Varthun]

I would be curious to see the results you find with a Turian Sentinel.

Tech - 0

Warp - 6 (Detonate/Expose/Pierce)

Overload - 6 (Chain/Recharge/Shield Damage)

Racial - 6 (Capacity/Power Damage/Stability)

Fitness - 6(Durability/Recharge/Durability)

Weapon of choice is usually a Falcon.

For equips, a movement speed buff, cryo ammo and of course, an AR amp.


Granted, this will not solo supremely well, but the mob control has been surprisingly effective. Dunno if that would cause you to re-evaluate your opinion on him, but it's what I've been using.

Modifié par Varthun, 09 avril 2012 - 04:57 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Varthun wrote...

I would be curious to see the results you find with a Turian Sentinel.

Tech - 0

Warp - 6 (Detonate/Expose/Pierce)

Overload - 6 (Chain/Recharge/Shield Damage)

Racial - 6 (Capacity/Power Damage/Stability)

Fitness - 6(Durability/Recharge/Durability)

Weapon of choice is usually a Falcon.

For equips, a movement speed buff, cryo ammo and of course, an AR amp.


Granted, this will not solo supremely well, but the mob control has been surprisingly effective. Dunno if that would cause you to re-evaluate your opinion on him, but it's what I've been using.

I've been messing around a lot with the Turian Sentinel lately, and while he's definitely solid, I haven't found any way to make him really exceptionally impressive.  However, I didn't have an opportunity to play him with a highly competent tech burst team.  And of course he could be an alternate warp setter for a biotic team.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 05:05 .

[Highlord Heian]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...
Using that single ability as an example for a class's exceptional usefulness against enemies for one class, but somehow damning for another class? Because that's...that's just stupid.

  Whee, straw man argument.  Get out of my thread, troll.  You don't need company to argue against your imagination.

I don't think you know what a straw man argument is.

I said you used Prox Mine as an example for why SI was superior. You used Prox Mine as an example for why SI was superior. That's not a strawman argument. That's me, saying exactly what you said, but in a way you don't like it because it defeats your logic and makes you seem stupid.

Let's boil it down a little more:

GP: SI is great, Prox Mine increases damage on the target, they're top of my list.
HH: TS has the exact same ability you're saying is so amazing. They are at the dead bottom of your list.
GP: You can't say that one ability makes them good, that's stupid.
HH : That's the same example you gave.
GP:  Shut up troll.

What a masterpiece of theatre! This is a one-act play about how you despise people using your own examples against your flawed logic.

But, really? Whining "troll" is the choice of somebody without an intelligent reply.

[GodlessPaladin]

Highlord Heian wrote... I don't think you know what a straw man argument is.

I know exactly what it means.  If you think that what you said is what I said, then you have very poor reading comprehension indeed.

I said you used Prox Mine as an example for why SI was superior. You used Prox Mine as an example for why SI was superior. That's not a strawman argument. That's me, saying exactly what you said, but in a way you don't like it because it defeats your logic and makes you seem stupid.

  You didn't even repeat your own statement accurately...

What you just said is not logically equivalent to your previous statement (which claimed, among other things, that I said that the Turian Soldier having proximity mine was "damning" to it.  Which of course I didn't).  And it's STILL not logically equivalent to what I said.

Let's boil it down a little more:

GP: SI is great, Prox Mine increases damage on the target, they're top of my list.
HH: TS has the exact same ability you're saying is so amazing. They are at the dead bottom of your list.
GP: You can't say that one ability makes them good, that's stupid.
HH : That's the same example you gave.
GP:  Shut up troll.

 

Cute how you say you're not putting words in my mouth, but can't use actual quotes.

-Saying that I put the SI on top solely or even primarily because it has Proximity Mine is not an accurate representation of anything I said.  What I actually said was that Proximity Mine was a useful tool for the Salarian Infiltrator.
-Saying that I put the TS on the bottom because Proximity Mine is "somehow damning" is not an accurate representation of anything I said.  What I actually said was that Proximity Mine was a useful tool for the Salarian Infiltrator, and made no mention whatsoever of the Turian Soldier.
-I also didn't say that you could not claim a class is good based on the merits of one ability.  What I actually said is that it would be silly to claim that a class was of the same quality as another because they share one ability.  Those statements are not logically equivalent.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 05:47 .

[Highlord Heian]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

I have seen really good Krogan Sentinels on bronze before. I do respect the Turian Sentinels as well.

Just about anything can do really well on Bronze.

Anything can do really well on GOLD.  "Can do well" is not the same as "can do better."  I've played Human Soldiers and Quarian Engineers at level *1* and gotten the highest score by a longshot in gold PuG games, and that's because some skill and a good weapon is enough to outperform the masses.

Incidentally, the point that any and all classes can succeed in gold is noted in the OP, which a lot of people don't seem to actually bother to read before responding to it. 

Are you simple in the head?

I responded directly to somebody else's post about performance in bronze. You, however, respond completely off-tangent and rant and rave like it's directed at you. Get over yourself. Get over your thread, get over your list, get over yourself.

I responded to a comment about bronze by saying it's not an accurate measure of class capability. You respond to that with some ridiculous example about level 1's in gold, like it has anything to do with anything either post you're replying to has said.

Maybe you should read the two whole sentences that you're replying to before trying to impress people by mentioning how high your score was in gold whenever the chance comes up.

[Highlord Heian]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote... I don't think you know what a straw man argument is.

I know exactly what it means.  If you think that what you said is what I said, then you have very poor reading comprehension indeed.

I said you used Prox Mine as an example for why SI was superior. You used Prox Mine as an example for why SI was superior. That's not a strawman argument. That's me, saying exactly what you said, but in a way you don't like it because it defeats your logic and makes you seem stupid.

  You didn't even repeat your own statement accurately...

What you just said is not logically equivalent to your previous statement.  And it's STILL not logically equivalent to what I said.

Let's boil it down a little more:

GP: SI is great, Prox Mine increases damage on the target, they're top of my list.
HH: TS has the exact same ability you're saying is so amazing. They are at the dead bottom of your list.
GP: You can't say that one ability makes them good, that's stupid.
HH : That's the same example you gave.
GP:  Shut up troll.

 

Cute how you say you're not putting words in my mouth, but can't use actual quotes.

Haha. Oh wow. You want me to quote several posts, every response? Because I quoted you directly when I made the proximity mine comparison.

I quoted you directly when I made the response. I quoted you directly, in fact, in the very post you're saying was a "straw man". I guess you couldn't be bothered to read as much, however.

I didn't "put words in your mouth". I "took words from your mouth", and put them in a logical comparison you didn't like. So you called me a troll. The fact that you're so adamantly trying to make this about context instead of content speaks volumes for your lack of ability to respond logically.

[Tymathee]

dont hate on the quarian infiltrator, she's priceless against geth and against the other 2, if you have it fully spec'd out on sabo and get the 100% tech dmg buff, and you have a tech spammer, it's awesome. Or even if someone has tech ammo, it really helps!

Also quarians dodge left and right standing straight up rather than rolling, so it's easier to pop left or right to avoid fire and line up your shot.

also forgot they have a good amount of starting health and sheilds, which i think are 500-700.

btw...anybody wonder why there isn't a Drell Infiltrator? isn't that what Thane was? I think an Infiltrator with Reave would be epic.

Modifié par Tymathee, 09 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Highlord Heian wrote...I responded directly to somebody else's post about performance in bronze. You, however, respond completely off-tangent and rant and rave like it's directed at you. Get over yourself. Get over your thread, get over your list, get over yourself.

Again, you exhibit a failure of reading comprehension. In that case, I was agreeing with you and building on your point further. You were correct to say that outplaying one's teammates on bronze is not a wonderful indicator of competitive performance, because being successful and outplaying one's teammates on any difficulty, including gold, is possible with any class, at any level, as demonstrated by numerous players, many of which have videos up of things like beating gold with level 1 krogan soldiers.

I didn't "put words in your mouth". I "took words from your mouth",
and put them in a logical comparison you didn't like. So you called me a
troll.

  Saying these things over and over doesn't make any of them true.  I have already pointed out where and why your characterizations of my statements do not accurately reflect either my words I wrote or the position I hold, and you have patently ignored this and continued flaming.  For no reason.  Which is pretty obviously trollish behavior, to be honest.

Here is what I said, and the quote you originally responded to:

GodlessPaladin wrote...
The
Salarian Infiltrator's Proximity Mine weakens *everything* not just
armor, and does some nice damage on its own, and he gets Energy Drain
too.

You responded to that by claiming that....
-I said that the Salarian Infiltrator was highly ranked largely because he had proximity mine, even though I said no such thing.
-I said that proximity mine was "damning" for the Turian Soldier, even though I said no such thing (or even made a comment about the Turian Soldier at all...).
-If I thought proximity mine was a useful ability, I must not have any experience with the various classes.

The first two are straw man arguments, mate.  And if that wasn't bad enough on its own, you followed those up with insults and flaming when I pointed out that you were misrepresenting my position.

I will not feed you any longer.  If you cannot respond civilly (and avoiding straw man arguments is an important part of a civil discussion), I will not respond to you further.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Back to more constructive things...

Tymathee wrote...

dont hate on the quarian infiltrator, she's priceless against geth and against the other 2, if you have it fully spec'd out on sabo and get the 100% tech dmg buff, and you have a tech spammer, it's awesome. Or even if someone has tech ammo, it really helps!

You wouldn't happen to know exactly how the 100% tech damage buff interacts with Disruptor Ammo, would you?

[SovereignWillReturn]

Turian Sentinel can self-create tech bursts, solo anything with shields, help support biotic explosions, and has accuracy stability+extra weapon damage.

I'd give him a B or A-

[GodlessPaladin]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Turian Sentinel can self-create tech bursts, solo anything with shields, help support biotic explosions, and has accuracy stability+extra weapon damage.

I'd give him a B or A-

Does Overload/Warp always create a tech burst, or is there a limited time window?  Do you need a power efficiency module or something?  It didn't seem like I was getting solo tech bursts much when I was trying it out yesterday.  I also don't see it in the Turian Sentinel gold video that was linked here.

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Here better yet, I'll find them for you:

  That's a Turian Soldier, not a Turian Sentinel.

I'm not seeing the solo Tech Bursts.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 avril 2012 - 06:42 .

[Sabresandiego]

Few notes about the human infiltrator:

-Cryo Blast is absolutely key. It slows/freezes targets in an AOE making the claymore shot less likely to miss, and it also boosts claymore damage tremendously.

-Reload canceling is also key, practice canceling your first reload with medigel

-Sticky grenades are not the focus of the build, but can be useful in certain situations

-Swarmers are a problem for the class, no class is perfect. On a team this is less of an issue. If you are soloing you can bring some kind of sidearm.

-Use the accuracy and damage mod on the claymore. With the accuracy mod you can often get 1 hit kills even from long range.

-Dont put yourself in some terrible close range position just because you have a shotgun. Ideal range is mid, and take evasive action right after firing.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 09 avril 2012 - 06:47 .

[jaydubs67]

A note on reload canceling with medigel. It's much easier if you remap it to 4. You can't actually move medigel to a different quickslot, but you can remap quickslot 7 to 4 on your keyboard.