440 réponses à ce sujet

[Huojin]

Nobody's mentioned that every.single.resource Shepard came across in the galaxy was put to use building the Crucible. That's a crapton of stuff gone from rebuilding right there.

[Warrior Craess]

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Warrior Craess wrote...

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

But as you said, we would not have sought this path until we had to, which of course would have been after the Reapers showed up. The Reapers purpose for funneling us then is consistent with their desire to harvest us.

I'm not saying we have not been influenced by the Reapers, but we now have a choice to decide our own path, and whether that is the same as what they have done or not is irrelevant. Traditional FTL travel will come before we design new relays, and we perhaps may find that the Relays were not the best design.

Yes, the Galactic Society we knew is gone, but the hope in the ending is that the people we knew are not, and they can build their own society.

Edit: and that Society needed to end, because it was designed by the Reapers.

Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 08 avril 2012 - 07:30 .

[Warrior Craess]

arthurhallam wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Apocsapel91 wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

And fuel...

You don't need fuel in space. There's no friction, you get to the speed you want and, go. Stopping is the real problem.

i can't count the amount of times i've had to point this out to people. it's getting boring. 

You do however need fuel to manuever in space, to maintain an orbit around a planet, or to land on a planet. All of which is needed to discharge the static buildup. ME to established that you can use raw resources as fuel, but pretty sure it also established that as being prohibitively expensive.  I don't recall the normandy ever being able to skim a gas giant for fuel, and since it's a military design, I'd feel safe in assuming other military ships also lack this ability. 

[Kawamura]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I think that's the only codex entry that gives the numbers.

Ashley gave the dozen a day comment, but I never knew if tha twas confirmed or not by the Codex.

That's where it originally comes from, but why do you need the Codex to confirm her statement? I mean, even if she's not 100% accurate I doubt she would screw it up that badly; she works in space for a living.

I generally consider the Codex to be more reliable on tech issues than the characters talking. I would think the Codex is checked over for those sort of details, where I don't know if perhaps a mistake like that could slip through into the script (say, if that line was done before that Codex entry was fleshed out).

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I thought FTL was slower than that.

The Weekes "interview" has it that fast, but I thought colonization of systems outside of those having a Mass Relay were slow because it took so long to go in between nearby systems. Like, on the order of years.

The numbers I took were from Codex entries.

You may be thinking of the communication codex entries, which state that traditional communication is limited by the speed of light. They actually do say at one point that it is faster to fly ships between worlds then send radio communication.

However, with the new Quantum Entanglement Communicators, even this won't be an issue.

There's no Codex entry with numbers that I know of. Can you point me at it? 

I've always thought FTL was like... 200x faster than light speed or something. But I realize now that I never really looked. 

Here's the Codex entry for the Reaper flight times, and you can extrapolate that back to the Council Race flight times (They also gave numbers for the Council race flight times in the ME1 Codex, but I don't want to go find it again )

Which really seems to contradict the tone of the rest of the games. We're told repeatedly that interstellar travel is basically impossible without the relays, taking years or decades at best.
Also the whole "reaper influence thing", if they're dead I don't really think that's an issue. The whole point of the relay network and the citadel was to make us easier to track down and destroy by confining us on paths they controlled. New relays wouldn't have that problem, and there are no reapers around in any case. As long as it isn't straight-up cannibalized from a dead Reaper and will potentially indoctrinate us I think we're good. Legion can keep his whole "technological purity" thing(that he then abandons when his back is against the wall).

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 avril 2012 - 07:37 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Which really seems to contradict the tone of the rest of the games. We're told repeatedly that interstellar travel is basically impossible without the relays, taking years or decades at best.

It contradicts the mindset that the entire galaxy was led into by the Reapers. It's not as blunt as Indoc theory, but this is a good example of how the Reapers giving us tech blinded us to alternatives.

[Warrior Craess]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

But as you said, we would not have sought this path until we had to, which of course would have been after the Reapers showed up. The Reapers purpose for funneling us then is consistent with their desire to harvest us.

I'm not saying we have not been influenced by the Reapers, but we now have a choice to decide our own path, and whether that is the same as what they have done or not is irrelevant. Traditional FTL travel will come before we design new relays, and we perhaps may find that the Relays were not the best design.

Yes, the Galactic Society we knew is gone, but the hope in the ending is that the people we knew are not, and they can build their own society.

Edit: and that Society needed to end, because it was designed by the Reapers.

If the reaper threat is removed, why must that society end? We agree that the issue with following the path that reapers wanted us to was bad, is that it allowed the reapers to harvest us easily. There are two possible solutions to that, develope in a different matter, or remove the reaper threat. 

In synthesis the threat is gone - according to the kid, so why the neede to destroy the galactic civilization? 
In destroy the reaper threat is gone so again why destroy the galactic civilization?
Control is the only one the assumes that the Reapers may still be a threat (it's a false assumption just as the star brats arguements are all fallacies), so freeing us from reaper growth patterns may be a good thing. 

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Which really seems to contradict the tone of the rest of the games. We're told repeatedly that interstellar travel is basically impossible without the relays, taking years or decades at best.

It contradicts the mindset that the entire galaxy was led into by the Reapers. It's not as blunt as Indoc theory, but this is a good example of how the Reapers giving us tech blinded us to alternatives.

Was the galaxy led into a reliance on the relays? Yes. No reason to develop something better if you have that. But it didn't make everyone stupid. If they say it takes years to decades for conventional FTL, it probably does. That is after all how they scouted for new relays to expand to since they were living in fear of another rachni war. Perhaps it's because these "12ly a day" estimates typically ignore the logistical hurdles.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

But as you said, we would not have sought this path until we had to, which of course would have been after the Reapers showed up. The Reapers purpose for funneling us then is consistent with their desire to harvest us.

I'm not saying we have not been influenced by the Reapers, but we now have a choice to decide our own path, and whether that is the same as what they have done or not is irrelevant. Traditional FTL travel will come before we design new relays, and we perhaps may find that the Relays were not the best design.

Yes, the Galactic Society we knew is gone, but the hope in the ending is that the people we knew are not, and they can build their own society.

Edit: and that Society needed to end, because it was designed by the Reapers.

If the reaper threat is removed, why must that society end? We agree that the issue with following the path that reapers wanted us to was bad, is that it allowed the reapers to harvest us easily. There are two possible solutions to that, develope in a different matter, or remove the reaper threat. 

In synthesis the threat is gone - according to the kid, so why the neede to destroy the galactic civilization? 
In destroy the reaper threat is gone so again why destroy the galactic civilization?
Control is the only one the assumes that the Reapers may still be a threat (it's a false assumption just as the star brats arguements are all fallacies), so freeing us from reaper growth patterns may be a good thing. 

From a Narrative Standpoint:
The Reapers, the Citadel, and the Mass Relays are one in the same. Removing one without removing the others does not solve the problem, as it does not represent self-determination.

Removing the Reapers but keeping the Relays would send a message that is counter to self-determination.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Which really seems to contradict the tone of the rest of the games. We're told repeatedly that interstellar travel is basically impossible without the relays, taking years or decades at best.

It contradicts the mindset that the entire galaxy was led into by the Reapers. It's not as blunt as Indoc theory, but this is a good example of how the Reapers giving us tech blinded us to alternatives.

Was the galaxy led into a reliance on the relays? Yes. No reason to develop something better if you have that. But it didn't make everyone stupid. If they say it takes years to decades for conventional FTL, it probably does. That is after all how they scouted for new relays to expand to since they were living in fear of another rachni war. Perhaps it's because these "12ly a day" estimates typically ignore the logistical hurdles.

Didn't make everyone stupid? I saw a galaxy, with evidence that it had a gun to it's head, dither for 3 years over whether or not to even acknowledge the gun. They were using tech they didn't earn, and it showed.

[Warrior Craess]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Which really seems to contradict the tone of the rest of the games. We're told repeatedly that interstellar travel is basically impossible without the relays, taking years or decades at best.

It contradicts the mindset that the entire galaxy was led into by the Reapers. It's not as blunt as Indoc theory, but this is a good example of how the Reapers giving us tech blinded us to alternatives.

Was the galaxy led into a reliance on the relays? Yes. No reason to develop something better if you have that. But it didn't make everyone stupid. If they say it takes years to decades for conventional FTL, it probably does. That is after all how they scouted for new relays to expand to since they were living in fear of another rachni war. Perhaps it's because these "12ly a day" estimates typically ignore the logistical hurdles.

Well to be fair car dealer could say that they average a cruisine speed of 75MPH... it's not what our society focuses on unless your in the muscle car group. That group never seems to care about the MPG, it's always about the qtr mile times, or 0-60 times etc.. So I can see a society influenced by the relays being more worried about speed of travel compared to effective travel distance.  Since that 12LY a day influences how fast you reach your destination after you've left the relay. 

[xMellowhype]

 LOL.
No matter what the energy omitted by the Crucible knocks out the Normandy. It'll take out all the ships in orbit which renders the entire OP useless.

[OchreJelly]

While I still think there's a lot of logistical problems with a 'happy' ending in this case, and the storytelling was poor in the ending, this makes sense. But accepting the game's tech setting at face value, you're still looking at 30-60 years at the most for long journeys due to the logistics and many unknowns. Not really ideal, but it could be worse.

And one thing people seem to be forgetting, dead reapers still indoctrinate according to the game canon. Something official would need to address that before salvage would be possible.

[MyChemicalBromance]

xMellowhype wrote...

 LOL.
No matter what the energy omitted by the Crucible knocks out the Normandy. It'll take out all the ships in orbit which renders the entire OP useless.

Not true.

The Normandy is damaged by the the Mass-Free Corridor collapsing, not by the Crucible beam. That is why you see a dark "void" behind the beam.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

But as you said, we would not have sought this path until we had to, which of course would have been after the Reapers showed up. The Reapers purpose for funneling us then is consistent with their desire to harvest us.

I'm not saying we have not been influenced by the Reapers, but we now have a choice to decide our own path, and whether that is the same as what they have done or not is irrelevant. Traditional FTL travel will come before we design new relays, and we perhaps may find that the Relays were not the best design.

Yes, the Galactic Society we knew is gone, but the hope in the ending is that the people we knew are not, and they can build their own society.

Edit: and that Society needed to end, because it was designed by the Reapers.

If the reaper threat is removed, why must that society end? We agree that the issue with following the path that reapers wanted us to was bad, is that it allowed the reapers to harvest us easily. There are two possible solutions to that, develope in a different matter, or remove the reaper threat. 

In synthesis the threat is gone - according to the kid, so why the neede to destroy the galactic civilization? 
In destroy the reaper threat is gone so again why destroy the galactic civilization?
Control is the only one the assumes that the Reapers may still be a threat (it's a false assumption just as the star brats arguements are all fallacies), so freeing us from reaper growth patterns may be a good thing. 

From a Narrative Standpoint:
The Reapers, the Citadel, and the Mass Relays are one in the same. Removing one without removing the others does not solve the problem, as it does not represent self-determination.

Removing the Reapers but keeping the Relays would send a message that is counter to self-determination.

Going to stop using FTL? Based on Reaper tech. The Citadel and the Mass Relays do not somehow represent the essence of the Reapers, they're simply the mechanics of the trap laid out for us. The cheese is not inherently evil because someone put it in a mouse trap.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 avril 2012 - 07:57 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

But as you said, we would not have sought this path until we had to, which of course would have been after the Reapers showed up. The Reapers purpose for funneling us then is consistent with their desire to harvest us.

I'm not saying we have not been influenced by the Reapers, but we now have a choice to decide our own path, and whether that is the same as what they have done or not is irrelevant. Traditional FTL travel will come before we design new relays, and we perhaps may find that the Relays were not the best design.

Yes, the Galactic Society we knew is gone, but the hope in the ending is that the people we knew are not, and they can build their own society.

Edit: and that Society needed to end, because it was designed by the Reapers.

If the reaper threat is removed, why must that society end? We agree that the issue with following the path that reapers wanted us to was bad, is that it allowed the reapers to harvest us easily. There are two possible solutions to that, develope in a different matter, or remove the reaper threat. 

In synthesis the threat is gone - according to the kid, so why the neede to destroy the galactic civilization? 
In destroy the reaper threat is gone so again why destroy the galactic civilization?
Control is the only one the assumes that the Reapers may still be a threat (it's a false assumption just as the star brats arguements are all fallacies), so freeing us from reaper growth patterns may be a good thing. 

From a Narrative Standpoint:
The Reapers, the Citadel, and the Mass Relays are one in the same. Removing one without removing the others does not solve the problem, as it does not represent self-determination.

Removing the Reapers but keeping the Relays would send a message that is counter to self-determination.

Going to stop using FTL? Based on Reaper tech. The Citadel and the Mass Relays do not somehow represent the essence of the Reapers, they're simply the mechanics of the trap laid out for us. The cheese is not inherently evil because someone put it in a mouse trap.

The cheese may not affect self-determination, but the walls of the maze do.

[OchreJelly]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Not true.

The Normandy is damaged by the the Mass-Free Corridor collapsing, not by the Crucible beam. That is why you see a dark "void" behind the beam.

Codex lists mass relay travel as instant. Though I thought in ME1 it took some time; In ME2 some people refer to it taking hours but I happened to take that as them travelling TO the relay, as it wasn't clear.

Plus I believe dropping out of FTL (nevermind a Relay) uncontrolled, would flood a ship with radiation.

It's not that these solutions are not workable, it's just very difficult to reconcile them with the presented lore.

[Warrior Craess]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

But as you said, we would not have sought this path until we had to, which of course would have been after the Reapers showed up. The Reapers purpose for funneling us then is consistent with their desire to harvest us.

I'm not saying we have not been influenced by the Reapers, but we now have a choice to decide our own path, and whether that is the same as what they have done or not is irrelevant. Traditional FTL travel will come before we design new relays, and we perhaps may find that the Relays were not the best design.

Yes, the Galactic Society we knew is gone, but the hope in the ending is that the people we knew are not, and they can build their own society.

Edit: and that Society needed to end, because it was designed by the Reapers.

If the reaper threat is removed, why must that society end? We agree that the issue with following the path that reapers wanted us to was bad, is that it allowed the reapers to harvest us easily. There are two possible solutions to that, develope in a different matter, or remove the reaper threat. 

In synthesis the threat is gone - according to the kid, so why the neede to destroy the galactic civilization? 
In destroy the reaper threat is gone so again why destroy the galactic civilization?
Control is the only one the assumes that the Reapers may still be a threat (it's a false assumption just as the star brats arguements are all fallacies), so freeing us from reaper growth patterns may be a good thing. 

From a Narrative Standpoint:
The Reapers, the Citadel, and the Mass Relays are one in the same. Removing one without removing the others does not solve the problem, as it does not represent self-determination.

Removing the Reapers but keeping the Relays would send a message that is counter to self-determination.

umm we'll have to disagree here. The relays, Reapers and the citadel are not the same from a narative stand point. The Relays are a tool nothing more. A tool used by the repaers to guide us in certain development paths. A tool we could safely use with out there influnce.  The Citadel being also a relay (until the last crappy 5 minutes) means it is also nothing more than a tool used by the reapers to influence us. With out the reapers the citadel (sorry I can't by into the brat being the citadel no matter what they say) and the relays are just tools. 

it's like saying that the roads, sewers and aquaducts built by the Romans needed to be destroyed after the Romans were defeated. 

[CapnManx]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...



Was the galaxy led into a reliance on the relays? Yes. No reason to develop something better if you have that. But it didn't make everyone stupid. If they say it takes years to decades for conventional FTL, it probably does. That is after all how they scouted for new relays to expand to since they were living in fear of another rachni war. Perhaps it's because these "12ly a day" estimates typically ignore the logistical hurdles.

Yes, but they don't seem to be talking theory there; but rather, practice.  The galactic economy was adapted to the mass relays; so the ships that were in general use were designed to rely on the mass relays to get around.  Making ships that could travel between star clusters unassisted simply wouldn't have been cost effective.

That doesn't rule out the possibility that they knew how to do it however.  The codex only really talks about warships, and commecial transports; there's nothing in there about long range explorer ships (which they presumably had, or they'd never be able to tell what's at the other end of newly discovered relays).

[Arppis]

Well... Then they just have to improvise and use stasis and stuff.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

One last reason why this idea of our society being free of the reaper influence is bogus.

1) We're already developed along the line that the reapers wanted. Rebuilding the relays sounds fine, but how exactly is that different than having those relays there with out being destroyed?

2) The reaper path only dictates our growth for so long. Typically just long enough for them to start a new cycle. Popualtion growth is inevitable. Which means that at some point the connection of relays would not be enough to contain all life. We (meaning humans, Solarians, Turians, Asari Krogan etc etc..) would eventually have to break away from the safety net that the relays provided. We would have to start exploring elsewhere to continue growing. Eventually a different means of travel would be developed for interstellar travel. Once we had overcome the limits of Mass effect drives we would no longer be constrained to the Reapers Path.

But as you said, we would not have sought this path until we had to, which of course would have been after the Reapers showed up. The Reapers purpose for funneling us then is consistent with their desire to harvest us.

I'm not saying we have not been influenced by the Reapers, but we now have a choice to decide our own path, and whether that is the same as what they have done or not is irrelevant. Traditional FTL travel will come before we design new relays, and we perhaps may find that the Relays were not the best design.

Yes, the Galactic Society we knew is gone, but the hope in the ending is that the people we knew are not, and they can build their own society.

Edit: and that Society needed to end, because it was designed by the Reapers.

If the reaper threat is removed, why must that society end? We agree that the issue with following the path that reapers wanted us to was bad, is that it allowed the reapers to harvest us easily. There are two possible solutions to that, develope in a different matter, or remove the reaper threat. 

In synthesis the threat is gone - according to the kid, so why the neede to destroy the galactic civilization? 
In destroy the reaper threat is gone so again why destroy the galactic civilization?
Control is the only one the assumes that the Reapers may still be a threat (it's a false assumption just as the star brats arguements are all fallacies), so freeing us from reaper growth patterns may be a good thing. 

From a Narrative Standpoint:
The Reapers, the Citadel, and the Mass Relays are one in the same. Removing one without removing the others does not solve the problem, as it does not represent self-determination.

Removing the Reapers but keeping the Relays would send a message that is counter to self-determination.

Going to stop using FTL? Based on Reaper tech. The Citadel and the Mass Relays do not somehow represent the essence of the Reapers, they're simply the mechanics of the trap laid out for us. The cheese is not inherently evil because someone put it in a mouse trap.

The cheese may not affect self-determination, but the walls of the maze do.

Are you ever going to actually address what I'm saying or just dance around it. The Reapers, one way or another, are no longer a threat. Building new mass relays, which like the Mass Effect technology that allows even basic FTL flight, does not somehow enslave us to them. If you want to become a neo-Luddite, go ahead. I like my galactic civlization.

[Warrior Craess]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...


The cheese may not affect self-determination, but the walls of the maze do.

That anology only works if there is no chance of exploration outside the "walls"  with out the reapers coming along every so often to harvest organics, those "walls" are only a temporay issue. Inevitably organic will grow beyond them. 

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Which
really seems to contradict the tone of the rest of the games. We're
told repeatedly that interstellar travel is basically impossible without
the relays, taking years or decades at best.

It
contradicts the mindset that the entire galaxy was led into by the
Reapers. It's not as blunt as Indoc theory, but this is a good example
of how the Reapers giving us tech blinded us to alternatives.

Was
the galaxy led into a reliance on the relays? Yes. No reason to develop
something better if you have that. But it didn't make everyone stupid.
If they say it takes years to decades for conventional FTL, it probably
does. That is after all how they scouted for new relays to expand to
since they were living in fear of another rachni war. Perhaps it's
because these "12ly a day" estimates typically ignore the logistical
hurdles.

Didn't make everyone stupid? I saw a galaxy,
with evidence that it had a gun to it's head, dither for 3 years over
whether or not to even acknowledge the gun. They were using tech they
didn't earn, and it showed.

Perhaps that was a poor choice of words, but you completely ignored my actual point. Not wanting to see the writing on the wall aside, they've used conventional FTL for millenia, perhaps not improved upon it as they should have, but they know what it does and what its limits are.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...


The cheese may not affect self-determination, but the walls of the maze do.

That anology only works if there is no chance of exploration outside the "walls"  with out the reapers coming along every so often to harvest organics, those "walls" are only a temporay issue. Inevitably organic will grow beyond them. 

Then... oh my gosh... the only way the entire Mass Effect series makes sense is if what the Catalyst said was true.

In a sense, "The mouse will kill itself before it breaks down these walls"