440 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

There can be no happy ending if Sheperd remains dead and his Squad magically crashing on an Eden Planet far away from civillization.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 08 avril 2012 - 08:00 .

[Deuterium_Dawn]

CapnManx wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...



Was the galaxy led into a reliance on the relays? Yes. No reason to develop something better if you have that. But it didn't make everyone stupid. If they say it takes years to decades for conventional FTL, it probably does. That is after all how they scouted for new relays to expand to since they were living in fear of another rachni war. Perhaps it's because these "12ly a day" estimates typically ignore the logistical hurdles.

Yes, but they don't seem to be talking theory there; but rather, practice.  The galactic economy was adapted to the mass relays; so the ships that were in general use were designed to rely on the mass relays to get around.  Making ships that could travel between star clusters unassisted simply wouldn't have been cost effective.

That doesn't rule out the possibility that they knew how to do it however.  The codex only really talks about warships, and commecial transports; there's nothing in there about long range explorer ships (which they presumably had, or they'd never be able to tell what's at the other end of newly discovered relays).

Warships and commercial transports would be using the relay networks mostly, presumably the explorer vessels mentioned in either the Mass Relay or Citadel Space entries I believe would be the best source for those numbers. Higher speeds are likely possible but those are as far as we know the most sustainable.

[mr.surv]

I'm afraid we need to use... METH to see "art" in endings

[TreguardD]

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...


The cheese may not affect self-determination, but the walls of the maze do.

That anology only works if there is no chance of exploration outside the "walls"  with out the reapers coming along every so often to harvest organics, those "walls" are only a temporay issue. Inevitably organic will grow beyond them. 

Then... oh my gosh... the only way the entire Mass Effect series makes sense is if what the Catalyst said was true.

In a sense, "The mouse will kill itself before it breaks down these walls"

Where the hell do you get that? We aren't killing ourselves, the reapers are killing us. The Catalysts assertion is that we'll inevitably build synthetics that will kill us all, but there's no real evidence of that nor does the Mass Effect Universe require him to be right to make sense. It works just fine until he comes out of nowhere, reduces the Reapers to puppets, and forces you to accept his ridiculous logic.  You essentially seem to be arguing that just because technology was used to ill ends in the past, it is inherently evil and must be discarded(ignoring the fact that ftl is also based on reaper tech), and that not doing so somehow enslaves us.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

TreguardD wrote...

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

Your numbers are off by a factor of 2. Either you read that diagram wrong, or they did the math wrong (I'm not going to get a ruler out and check it).

[CapnManx]

TreguardD wrote...

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

That assumes the Mass Effect galaxy is an accurate representation of the real Milky Way.

It isn't.

The Rosetta Nebula is 5200 ly from Earth; at 12 ly per day, that's 62 weeks (more or less); and that's about as far from Earth as you can get on the ME map.

[Kawamura]

TreguardD wrote...

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

Across the map at 15 light years a day is only 18.3 years or so straight through (ignoring the core). Where are you get 50 years from? Am I doing my math wrong?

[Warrior Craess]

except there there are no literal walls. Plenty of metaphysical walls to be sure. But aside from laziness there is nothing stopping us from traveling away from the relays. Given the amount of resources needed to rebuild, I'm sure that's going to happen much quicker than before.

It's not really the point though. The point is that we knew and loved the current ME universe. That universe no longer exists, and will not exist again. I don't want to play a game set in a Solarian local cluster. Nor do I want to play a game set in the Thessia sector. Because no matter how well that game plays out, I'll know there there is soo much more that could have been had in it.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...


The cheese may not affect self-determination, but the walls of the maze do.

That anology only works if there is no chance of exploration outside the "walls"  with out the reapers coming along every so often to harvest organics, those "walls" are only a temporay issue. Inevitably organic will grow beyond them. 

Then... oh my gosh... the only way the entire Mass Effect series makes sense is if what the Catalyst said was true.

In a sense, "The mouse will kill itself before it breaks down these walls"

Where the hell do you get that? We aren't killing ourselves, the reapers are killing us. The Catalysts assertion is that we'll inevitably build synthetics that will kill us all, but there's no real evidence of that nor does the Mass Effect Universe require him to be right to make sense. It works just fine until he comes out of nowhere, reduces the Reapers to puppets, and forces you to accept his ridiculous logic. 

The Reapers were created for the sole purpose of stopping the Mouse from killing himself.

Control accepts this solution.

Synthesis defines a new solution.

Destroy denies there is a problem.

My logic is that if something bothered to make the Reapers and continue all this work for billions of years, they had to have had a damn good reason.

Again, the endings ultimately come down to deciding if the Reapers are logical or illogical. If you deem them illogical, you pick destroy. If you deem them logical, you pick control. If you deem them logical but incorrect, you pick Synthesis.

[xAmilli0n]

6.3 years to get to one of the near homeworlds is a long time, and there are certainly a lot of variables to consider. However it is possible.

Communication between homeworlds and the fleet could allow for meeting in some middle ground (quantum communication).

We don't know their fuel resources, but if there is anything I learned from scanning various systems, there are plenty of destroyed fuel stations to salvage.

Food wise, again we don't know their resources, but I imagine they are large, you can salvage from Earth, the Citadel, and other planets. The Quarian Liveships can sustain the Quarian's and Turians.

Throw in salvaged reaper tech, tech from the citadel and the crucible, research from survivors on homeowrld and its totally doable.

Just an optimist with a few ideas.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Warrior Craess wrote...

except there there are no literal walls. Plenty of metaphysical walls to be sure. But aside from laziness there is nothing stopping us from traveling away from the relays. Given the amount of resources needed to rebuild, I'm sure that's going to happen much quicker than before.

It's not really the point though. The point is that we knew and loved the current ME universe. That universe no longer exists, and will not exist again. I don't want to play a game set in a Solarian local cluster. Nor do I want to play a game set in the Thessia sector. Because no matter how well that game plays out, I'll know there there is soo much more that could have been had in it.

I'm not sure what to say to that, other then that we knew Mass Effect 3 was going to be an ending. It had to end some day; better like this than entropy. The "universe" is gone, but something better will be built in its place for the people that live in it.

[Warrior Craess]

Kawamura wrote...

TreguardD wrote...

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

Across the map at 15 light years a day is only 18.3 years or so straight through (ignoring the core). Where are you get 50 years from? Am I doing my math wrong?

because you can not fly straight thru. You must stop and discharge the static electricity build up of FTL travel or fry everything inside.  This means that you need to drop FTL space near a planet, use fuel to orbit or land on said planet, use fuel to take off or leave orbit. Then you need to take the time to refuel, provided that there is a planet capable of refueling from (which is not a certain thing).  So no trip is going to be as short as simply dividing distance by speed. 

Now toss in the fact that no FTL path from sector to sector has been explored, and you get a much much longer travel time. 

[AtreiyaN7]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Sorry, but we need to be talking "home in months" instead of decades for this to approach happy.

Hmm, well after surviving an event that otherwise would have resulted in the mass physical extinction of multiple races while they're "ascended" into Reaper form, I think they already have a happy ending. Who gives a flying fig if it takes years or decades to get home? Those people would, oh, be dead otherwise. If they were willing to put their lives on the line, I think they can probably handle being away from home if their families and friends are safe.

And haven't people heard about hydroponics? You realize that something as simple as algae can provide protein, right? It would be easy enough to grow sufficient food with a little effort. Unless you think everyone runs out of food in like a fraking month, they'll probably have time to work something out (especially if they can study/replicate liveship technology used for hydroponics and whatever other systems the Quarians use for their food cultivation).

[Twinzam.V]

xAmilli0n wrote...

6.3 years to get to one of the near homeworlds is a long time, and there are certainly a lot of variables to consider. However it is possible.

Communication between homeworlds and the fleet could allow for meeting in some middle ground (quantum communication).

We don't know their fuel resources, but if there is anything I learned from scanning various systems, there are plenty of destroyed fuel stations to salvage.

Food wise, again we don't know their resources, but I imagine they are large, you can salvage from Earth, the Citadel, and other planets. The Quarian Liveships can sustain the Quarian's and Turians.

Throw in salvaged reaper tech, tech from the citadel and the crucible, research from survivors on homeowrld and its totally doable.

Just an optimist with a few ideas.

Thats a very optimistic view. Now if you add piracy, probably riots and other problems during moments of crisis.....

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 08 avril 2012 - 08:23 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Kawamura wrote...

TreguardD wrote...

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

Across the map at 15 light years a day is only 18.3 years or so straight through (ignoring the core). Where are you get 50 years from? Am I doing my math wrong?

You're doing your math right. Either he is just eyeballing (THIS IS WHY WE DON'T EYEBALL IT SERVICEMAN CHUNG) that diagram, or that diagram is NTS.

[Warrior Craess]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

except there there are no literal walls. Plenty of metaphysical walls to be sure. But aside from laziness there is nothing stopping us from traveling away from the relays. Given the amount of resources needed to rebuild, I'm sure that's going to happen much quicker than before.

It's not really the point though. The point is that we knew and loved the current ME universe. That universe no longer exists, and will not exist again. I don't want to play a game set in a Solarian local cluster. Nor do I want to play a game set in the Thessia sector. Because no matter how well that game plays out, I'll know there there is soo much more that could have been had in it.

I'm not sure what to say to that, other then that we knew Mass Effect 3 was going to be an ending. It had to end some day; better like this than entropy. The "universe" is gone, but something better will be built in its place for the people that live in it.

What you think that fighting off the Reapers would remove conflict from the galaxy?  there can't be an issue with the Batarians trying to take revenge on the humans now that the reapers are gone? The Korgan can't chafe under Wrex's rule (especially with out eve) and cause problems that need to be dealth with? not to mention that there are more then a few Relays whose destinations are unknown. With out destroying the relays there is plenty of game play left in the ME universe. there is none left if the relays are gone.  ME 3 was an ending to Shepards story, not the ME universe. Sadly as it stands it's both. 

[MyChemicalBromance]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

TreguardD wrote...

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

Across the map at 15 light years a day is only 18.3 years or so straight through (ignoring the core). Where are you get 50 years from? Am I doing my math wrong?

because you can not fly straight thru. You must stop and discharge the static electricity build up of FTL travel or fry everything inside.  This means that you need to drop FTL space near a planet, use fuel to orbit or land on said planet, use fuel to take off or leave orbit. Then you need to take the time to refuel, provided that there is a planet capable of refueling from (which is not a certain thing).  So no trip is going to be as short as simply dividing distance by speed. 

Now toss in the fact that no FTL path from sector to sector has been explored, and you get a much much longer travel time. 

It is true that it will take longer than 23 years in a realistic scenario, but the first poster in this pyramid said he was not factoring in anything other than constant speed. That it is why both Kawamura and I can say he got the math wrong.

[xAmilli0n]

Twinzam.V wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

6.3 years to get to one of the near homeworlds is a long time, and there are certainly a lot of variables to consider. However it is possible.

Communication between homeworlds and the fleet could allow for meeting in some middle ground (quantum communication).

We don't know their fuel resources, but if there is anything I learned from scanning various systems, there are plenty of destroyed fuel stations to salvage.

Food wise, again we don't know their resources, but I imagine they are large, you can salvage from Earth, the Citadel, and other planets. The Quarian Liveships can sustain the Quarian's and Turians.

Throw in salvaged reaper tech, tech from the citadel and the crucible, research from survivors on homeowrld and its totally doable.

Just an optimist with a few ideas.

Thats a very optimistic view. Now if you add piracy, probably riots and other problems during moments of crysis.....

Not going to be easy, but definitely doable.  Not to compare but BSG might be a good example of how it could work, the good and the bad.  Not comparing the series, just using it as an example.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...


The cheese may not affect self-determination, but the walls of the maze do.

That anology only works if there is no chance of exploration outside the "walls"  with out the reapers coming along every so often to harvest organics, those "walls" are only a temporay issue. Inevitably organic will grow beyond them. 

Then... oh my gosh... the only way the entire Mass Effect series makes sense is if what the Catalyst said was true.

In a sense, "The mouse will kill itself before it breaks down these walls"

Where the hell do you get that? We aren't killing ourselves, the reapers are killing us. The Catalysts assertion is that we'll inevitably build synthetics that will kill us all, but there's no real evidence of that nor does the Mass Effect Universe require him to be right to make sense. It works just fine until he comes out of nowhere, reduces the Reapers to puppets, and forces you to accept his ridiculous logic. 

The Reapers were created for the sole purpose of stopping the Mouse from killing himself.

Control accepts this solution.

Synthesis defines a new solution.

Destroy denies there is a problem.

My logic is that if something bothered to make the Reapers and continue all this work for billions of years, they had to have had a damn good reason.

Again, the endings ultimately come down to deciding if the Reapers are logical or illogical. If you deem them illogical, you pick destroy. If you deem them logical, you pick control. If you deem them logical but incorrect, you pick Synthesis.

That essentially seems to be our problem here. You accept the Catalysts logic, I guess because no one would ever commit genocide without a good reason. Thus you accept that organics growing beyond the "walls" of the Reaper trap is a problem, regardless of whether the Reapers and the Catalyst are around and a threat or not. One nonsensical way or the other, the Crucible ends the cycle. Star-Jar asserts that the problem will inevitably arise again(except in Synthesis even though I really don't see how that would stop people from just building new synthetics), but even if that were the case the new synthetics who decide to murder us every fifty thousand years give or take a few millenia so other synthetics won't murder us wouldn't control the relay network we built. Rebuilding the relays does not symbolically enslave us any more than Mass Effect fields do. Rejecting Star-Jar's genocidal "Solution" does not mean I have to avoid anything remotely derivative of the reapers like the plague, or that not doing so essentially means subscribing to his logic.

[Wulfram]

One positive thing I would say is that the voyage home of the various fleets could make great stories in their own right.

[Warrior Craess]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

TreguardD wrote...

http://postmortemstu...sters2-copy.png

This is assuming 15 l/y a day, no stops, no break downs. No having to refuel, find food.

You're talking a roughly 50 year journey to get across the map.... and that's going through the supposedly impassible core.

Across the map at 15 light years a day is only 18.3 years or so straight through (ignoring the core). Where are you get 50 years from? Am I doing my math wrong?

because you can not fly straight thru. You must stop and discharge the static electricity build up of FTL travel or fry everything inside.  This means that you need to drop FTL space near a planet, use fuel to orbit or land on said planet, use fuel to take off or leave orbit. Then you need to take the time to refuel, provided that there is a planet capable of refueling from (which is not a certain thing).  So no trip is going to be as short as simply dividing distance by speed. 

Now toss in the fact that no FTL path from sector to sector has been explored, and you get a much much longer travel time. 

It is true that it will take longer than 23 years in a realistic scenario, but the first poster in this pyramid said he was not factoring in anything other than constant speed. That it is why both Kawamura and I can say he got the math wrong.

you know I didn't notice that until later, yes his math is completely incorrect. I'd really hate to think of it if it did take that long in a straight line continuous path.. 

[Thornquist]

Dear god, I really hope Bioware does not intend to only continue the Mass Effect franchise as prequels. I really, really, REALLY need to know how the universe continues after ME3.

[blooregard]

OP you've helped me appreciate the endings...now we need to fix Joker's cowardice, shep's on earth breathing, and the citadel's possible impact with earth. Then we're good.

[Warrior Craess]

Wulfram wrote...

One positive thing I would say is that the voyage home of the various fleets could make great stories in their own right.

hmm so various odysseus games?  Would probably only work once. Then it would just be repeatative.  IMO it would have to be the Solarians as they have the greatest need to take short cuts if they ever want to see home again.