440 réponses à ce sujet

[Udalango]

So what happens when the Krogans and Salarians stop to refuel at the same planet?

[Arturia Pendragon]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They grew their own food.

They can transport their own fuel infrastructure.

Manufactories to make refined tools out of raw materials are established.



Fortunately, the ME universe has the explanation technologies necessary.

I could have sworn the purpose of the Pilgrimage was for the exact reason that they didn't have these things....

[Esoretal]

wintermaul55 wrote...

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

The Quarians survived for 300 years.

They also had the mass relays to travel between systems to purchase/barter for fuel, food, and other supplies. Did you really even think that reply through?

And you think that the rest of the races will accept having no resources and let the quarians go? LOL
let me remind you. KROGANS 

Krogans are levo, not dextro, according to EDI. She mentions that the Krogans will need to bring levo food with them to Palaven because they won't be able to eat anything there.

Modifié par Esoretal, 08 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[Orthodox Infidel]

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

The longest trip is 17, based upon some estimates done using the galaxy map in another thread. I will dig it up and link to it, since we had a good conversation about a lot of stuff people are going to start talking about again.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

SilentK wrote...
 How is it a problem that trade is more expensive and dangerous? The Blue Suns and their ilk did exist before. Trading wasn't a picnic at any time. Life changes.

Because now you can't simply use the mass relays to get from one hub to another. Yes there were always pirates and such, but now there are vast distances away from the centers of civilization that you must cross to get there. No fuel stations, no place to get food, and no Council fleets nearby. There are now many more opportunities for hostile action or simple mechanical malfunction to kill you and it is now much harder for any help to reach you.

And the ending scene simply says, on one place there is one family that cannot get to the stars. "When will I go to the stars?". "When we have the money". In case they are to poor to go on a expensive space-flight. "When a ship comes by", in case it is a garden planet meaning they can take care of themselves but not travel. There are several different ways to look at that. But one person asking to go to the stars=/=no existense of starfligt.

The scene strongly implies there has been no interstellar contact and they have no idea whether anyone else is actually out there. "Each of those stars may have many worlds" does not say "damn I wish I could afford to fly". I can't afford to go flying around the world, I still know the rest of the world is out there.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 avril 2012 - 04:00 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Galactic civilisation is still destroyed. You cannot have galactic trade over those timescales.

[Orthodox Infidel]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Sorry, but we need to be talking "home in months" instead of decades for this to approach happy.

No, we don't. Everyone can get home during their own lifetimes, and there's cryonics also.

[SilentK]

Udalango wrote...

So what happens when the Krogans and Salarians stop to refuel at the same planet?

Hmm.... perhaps wait for them to start arguing/fighting and then steal their ships when they are busy?

O

[DGuyton]

Udalango wrote...

So what happens when the Krogans and Salarians stop to refuel at the same planet?

Hilarity ensues.

[General User]

eddieoctane wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

Hydrophics is a wonderful technology.

Because the UV lamps won't need 23 years worth of power, the water recycling system won't require any expendable materials, and every bit of waste material (skin cells, feces, etc) will be broken down and returned to the water system to feed the plants.

Sorry, there are too many limitations.

Limitations which, even taken collectively, are not insurmountable.  Given the state of technology in ME, some of them (like power) aren't even that limiting.

Modifié par General User, 08 avril 2012 - 04:07 .

[The Divine Avenger]

The Angry One wrote...

The Divine Avenger wrote...

wintermaul55 wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

u better believe it... they also have giant pink bunnies and coward pilots who leave the greatest fight to decide the fate of there time to go running away with there commanders girl on a random planet

lol to this

This explains everything.

wasn't that the ending to ME3 anyway

Modifié par The Divine Avenger, 08 avril 2012 - 03:59 .

[CronoDragoon]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

The longest trip is 17, based upon some estimates done using the galaxy map in another thread. I will dig it up and link to it, since we had a good conversation about a lot of stuff people are going to start talking about again.

So assuming they use Reaper cores like Weekes said, we're looking at 6.8 years at normal cruise speed, possibly faster on max?

[The Angry One]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
you're still stuck with needing more fuel than god to get anywhere.

Check the OP for concerns on fuel. We don't need as much as we use in the galaxy map.

Irrelevant.
Fuel is constantly consumed in FTL due to the power generation required to run a current through the Eezo core.

[lillitheris]

I swear nobody reads anything.

[The Divine Avenger]

DGuyton wrote...

Udalango wrote...

So what happens when the Krogans and Salarians stop to refuel at the same planet?

Hilarity ensues.

The Krogan eat the Salarians

[MyChemicalBromance]

Zardoc wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

The Quarians survived for 300 years.

They also had the mass relays to travel between systems to purchase/barter for fuel, food, and other supplies. Did you really even think that reply through?

They grew their own food.

They can transport their own fuel infrastructure.

Manufactories to make refined tools out of raw materials are established.



Fortunately, the ME universe has the explanation technologies necessary.

Again, they had access to the mass relays to get all the stuff needed to properly build and run their migrant fleet. We, on the other hand, do not.

Read the codex entry on medi-gel. Humans have the gene-tech to engineer plants...

[General User]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Galactic civilisation is still destroyed. You cannot have galactic trade over those timescales.

Galactic civilization as we've known it is still destroyed.  But galactic civilization as we've known it was a racist plutocracy so... not an entirely bad thing imo.

[Erield]

SilentK wrote...

Erield wrote...

SilentK wrote...

So, long distance travel will require lots of time. I can live with that =)

edit: as far as food goes, there are still maps, and plantes with resources. Pro-tip is aiming for a planet with stuff you need.

Less than 1% of the galaxy has been explored.  All it would take is a few stops on your destination not having a planet with a strong enough magnetosphere to discharge static buildup and you die.  Maybe a few stops without any planets that have He3 to serve as fuel, or you die.  There are no supply lines, no place of retreat, unless you want to do this the slow way.

So, you want to forge a path across the galaxy in a slow, controlled fashion in order to limit needless death?  First you have to survive the coming Resource Wars; nearly all of the functional fleets of the entire galaxy are trapped in Sol.  Sol is a system that is rather far depleted of natural resources even before the Reapers.  After the Reaper attack, food will be a major concern, considering that there isn't much.  Much of the food-producing areas of the planet have been scorched by the Reapers in efforts to corral the humans into more efficient husk-producing lines.  Stores of food on the remainder of the fleets will only last a relatively short amount of time.

In short, no one will be taking a slow, cautious route to mapping the galaxy, complete with fuel depots and way-stations, any time soon. 

Hmm... well yes, aim for plantes with things you need. If you don't know what resouces are or are not available at a specific planet. It is up to the ship to decide if they want to investigate, if it is worth it or not. Plantes with things you need, those you know through previous knowledge or maps.

You miss the point that on any galactic journey from point A (Sol) to point B (let's say...Palaven) there's a 1% chance that you will have a good idea of what is in the next solar system over.  While there is almost definitely a route that will take you there successfully, it will take a long time for the first path to be found.  Let's just completely ignore food as a necessary resource, here.

Let's go with your ship being average: you can travel 12 ly per day, and need to dump static charge after 50 hours of travel.  Let's also say that you can travel 100 ly before needing to refuel (I have seen no estimates on this, so either I'm dumb or they don't exist except as a gameplay mechanic which should not be taken as truth.)  

Now then, imagine that your proposed path is this:  x 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 goal!   You are in system x, trying to get to system goal.  You have a good idea of what kind of planets are in 1, but very little idea in the rest.  You spend 1 day (24 hours) getting to system 1.  You are able to dump your charge, and there was a gas giant that you were able to get He3 for fuel (somehow.  We'll just assume you can.).  You run your scanners, and it turns out that 2 has nothing that would help you, but there are a couple of other choices.  2a has fuel, 2b has magnetosphere.  Unfortunately, both of those are far enough away from 3 that you would have to significantly change your proposed path.

Do you choose to go to 2, to see if 3 is suitable as a 'save'?  Or do you go with 2a, to refuel and hope to find a path that doesn't significantly add time to your journey?  Or maybe you go with 2b, knowing that you have a bit of spare fuel (you just filled up) but dumping charge is a requirement or else you die?

Every. Single. System.  would involve choices like that.  Backtracking to replenish/resupply and to take alternate routes will almost definitely be required.  Sure, after a few hundred years, this won't be necessary.  But we're not talking in the future.  We're talking about the fleets of people starving in Sol.

[erilben]

Even the codex writer said lots people will die without the relays.

Mass relays are not the only means of FTL, as others have pointed out. They're merely the most efficient way of moving long distances. When you're moving from system to system in a cluster, you're using Normandy's own mass effect FTL drive. As I always say, only ****s quote themselves, so I'll be an **** and quote the ME1 codex:

Four thousand years ago, the Mu Relay was knocked out of position by a supernova and lost. Since then, Ilos and its cluster have been inaccessible.

Occasionally, a university will organize an expedition to chart a route to Ilos using conventional FTL drive. These never get beyond the planning stages due to the distance and danger. The journey could take years or decades, passing through the hostile Terminus Systems and dozens of unexplored systems.

As for colonization patterns, yeah, the bulk of the galaxy is toast. There are three basic types of world in the IP:

Homeworlds: Billions of inhabitants, too many to feed and maintain standard of living without massive resource importation. (Earth, Thessia, etc.)
Colony worlds: Millions of inhabitants, self-supporting but may lack heavy industry or R&D capabilities. (Terra Nova, New Eden, Illium)
Mining worlds: Hundreds or thousands of inhabitants, uninhabitable without regular imports of manufactured goods, O2, food, and so on. These worlds supply the resources that feed the homeworlds. (Therum)

What you'd realistically see post-relay is a massive die-off back to sustainable levels. For the mining worlds, nothing is sustainable - everyone dies. For the homeworlds, massive starvation and scarcity - a Malthusian crisis akin to what killed off the drell. Life becomes nasty, brutish, and short as people fight over the leftovers. The homeworlds have all the tech, but they're mined-out - there's not enough to start again from scratch. If they use up what they have, they're not getting back into space on their own.

The colonies fare the best. They can feed themselves and maintain their level of technology (possibly barring a few key industries). They'll certainly lack for brain power (the most prestigious universities and corporate labs are on homeworlds), and the smaller ones will have problems with genetic diversity. They may not be able to get back into space for generations, but they're in good shape to do it eventually.

[General User]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They grew their own food.

They can transport their own fuel infrastructure.

Manufactories to make refined tools out of raw materials are established.



Fortunately, the ME universe has the explanation technologies necessary.

I could have sworn the purpose of the Pilgrimage was for the exact reason that they didn't have these things....

I always thought that the Pilgrimage was mainly a rite of passage.

[SilentK]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

SilentK wrote...
 How is it a problem that trade is more expensive and dangerous? The Blue Suns and their ilk did exist before. Trading wasn't a picnic at any time. Life changes.

Because now you can't simply use the mass relays to get from one hub to another. Yes there were always pirates and such, but now there are vast distances away from the centers of civilization that you must cross to get there. No fuel stations, no place to get food, and no Council fleets nearby. There are now many more opportunities for hostile action or simple mechanical malfunction to kill you and it is now much harder for any help to reach you.

And the ending scene simply says, on one place there is one family that cannot get to the stars. "When will I go to the stars?". "When we have the money". In case they are to poor to go on a expensive space-flight. "When a ship comes by", in case it is a garden planet meaning they can take care of themselves but not travel. There are several different ways to look at that. But one person asking to go to the stars=/=no existense of starfligt.

The scene implies interstellar travel and they have no idea whether anyone else is actually out there. "Each of those stars may have many worlds" does not say "damn I wish I could afford to fly". I can't afford to go flying around the world, I still know the rest of the world is out there.

Ahh.. good memory there   =)   I forgot about the last bit there about
many worlds. Well , then perhaps they are on a garden planet. All I am
saying that one person not being able to fly does not mean that there is
no spaceflight.

And I agree, travel will be much more dangerous. That
comes with all the changes. Maybe I misinterperted your original post, but I thought you felt that it was a problem with the endings that there was no more fast travel. Hmm... I don't see it as a problem but rather as a new interesting turn of events. Wonder what will happen. But I think that they people living in this time will adapt.

[Udalango]

The Divine Avenger wrote...

DGuyton wrote...

Udalango wrote...

So what happens when the Krogans and Salarians stop to refuel at the same planet?

Hilarity ensues.

The Krogan eat the Salarians

Poor rest of the galaxy at that point.  Krogan realize other species are tasty and instead of going to Tuchanka just follows the other fleets around.
I doubt Turians taste all that great though

[brp1410]

If you're going by RL logic then by the time you cross the galaxy at FTL or near FTL hundreds of thousands of years have passed outside the ship. 30 times FTL would probably number in millions or billions. So w/e you were set out to do would be irrelevant by the time you get to where you were trying to get, no one is stranded on earth though if that's what you were saying.

Modifié par brp1410, 08 avril 2012 - 04:10 .

[Orthodox Infidel]

The Angry One wrote...

DGuyton wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

Doesn't the Normandy have cold sleep capsules? I seem to remember seeing them on the crew deck.

Those are, as far as is ever shown, regular beds.
Even if they were stasis pods, there are like 8 of them.

You and I have been over this in other threads... but other people will benefit from reading it again...

The fact that there are any, and that they are standard equipment, is sufficient. The exact number of them on the Normandy isn't relevant, because it's very likely that there are already existing ship designs that have more, or that existing ships could be retrofitted with more pods.

Also, "as far as is ever shown" is a silly argument. It's a sci-fi setting. Cryo capsules are a standard sci-fi trope.

[Zix13]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

The Quarians survived for 300 years.

They also had the mass relays to travel between systems to purchase/barter for fuel, food, and other supplies. Did you really even think that reply through?

They grew their own food.

They can transport their own fuel infrastructure.

Manufactories to make refined tools out of raw materials are established.



Fortunately, the ME universe has the explanation technologies necessary.

They also needed resources to construct that infrastructure. Sol has little to no usable resources since the reapers have scorched the hell out of earth. No matter how you look at it there are not enough resources in Sol to make this a happy ending.