440 réponses à ce sujet

[Orthodox Infidel]

Sifr1449 wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

brp1410 wrote...

If you're going by RL logic then by the time you cross the galaxy at FTL or near FTL hundreds of thousands of years have passed outside the ship. So w/e you were set out to do would be irrelevant by the time you get to where you were trying to get, no one is stranded on earth though if that's what you were saying.

Incorrect for FTL. At "near FTL" you are correct.

Once you start actually travelling faster that light, this problem goes away because you're technically travelling backwards in time (this is part of the reason that FTL is impossible in reality). Since this obviously doesn't happen in the Mass Effect universe (or any universe I'm aware of that depends on FTL travel), we can assume this isn't a problem.

Time dilation and time travel aren't the same thing.

I know this. That's exactly what I'm trying to tell you.

You wouldn't go backwards in time, time would slow down for the passengers on the ship relative to the outside universe.

When you're at relativistic speeds. Relativistic speeds are less than the speed of light. In reality, travelling at speeds greater than the speed of light are equivalent to travelling backwards in time. That's why it's not possible in reality.

Also, it is an FTL jump. The difficulty with going Faster-than-Light with a conventional system is that you would gain infinite mass when you reach the Lightspeed barrier, something that a Mass Effect field can circumvent and counteract.

Time also stops when you hit c. 

Modifié par Orthodox Infidel, 08 avril 2012 - 04:24 .

[General User]

The Divine Avenger wrote...

General User wrote...

The Divine Avenger wrote...

General User wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Galactic civilisation is still destroyed. You cannot have galactic trade over those timescales.

Galactic civilization as we've known it is still destroyed.  But galactic civilization as we've known it was a racist plutocracy so... not an entirely bad thing imo.

Yes but the fact Shepard was able to untie them dispite everything shows that they can put aside there differences. Had the relays stayed in tacked they'd have set the stage for a new galactic civillization to take it's place but now instead there all.......srewed.

That's very... optimistic of you.  Temporarily putting aside differences to face a mortal threat isn't at all the same as knocking down an entrenched race-based power structure that was millenia in the making.

Yes but think about it with how devistated each of the reces worlds have been they are going to need eachother for support & that builds bonds. 1 eg has already happened the quarians & the geth, dispite being at odds for the past 300 years the geth were still helping the quarians to ajust to livin on the planet after all that time, That to me says hope.

Sh*t in one hand, hope in the other.  See which one gets filled first.

[DJBare]

Dean_the_Young wrote...They grew their own food.
They can transport their own fuel infrastructure.
Manufactories to make refined tools out of raw materials are established.
Fortunately, the ME universe has the explanation technologies necessary.

And where are the initial resources coming from to start these ventures?, I'm pretty sure they did not bring it along with them, they'd pretty much assume they would be returning home via the relays, during the final battle I'd say they used up an emmense amount of resource trying to survive the onslaught.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
you're still stuck with needing more fuel than god to get anywhere.

Check the OP for concerns on fuel. We don't need as much as we use in the galaxy map.

Irrelevant.
Fuel is constantly consumed in FTL due to the power generation required to run a current through the Eezo core.

The Mass Effect Envelope is present whether or not the ship is moving.
This is generated by the Eezo core.
The Normandy can sit in a system for weeks according to Joker, and it is never stated that fuel is the limiting factor.
The Normandy runs out of fuel in hours if it is moving.

Therefore, the fuel consumed by accelerating is extreme compared to the fuel consumed by powering the envelope.

Why would the Normandy be powering a mass effect field if it's stationary? Inertial would seem to still server your point, but why would the Normandy need to alter its mass while loitering undetected in a system? The fact the the eezo core is still pulsing when you're not moving does not mean it is generating a mass effect field.

"Turning off" an eezo core is probably more trouble than it is worth. We don't know enough about eezo to do more than speculate, but there is dust-form eezo, suggesting it can break down into a less usable state.

As a technically irrelevant but contextually relevant example, I'll say that "Turning off" a nuclear reactor is more difficult than letting it melt down.

[brian_breed]

 I'm afraid we need to use.... geography. 

The galaxy is largely empty, and largely unexplored. Getting home = next to impossible. It's not about distance, it's about manageable distance. It's a pretty straight shot to Miami to Orlando, but imagine trying to travel that distance by car without freeways or gasoline stations. That's the magnitude of the problem.

Modifié par brian_breed, 08 avril 2012 - 04:30 .

[brian_breed]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
you're still stuck with needing more fuel than god to get anywhere.

Check the OP for concerns on fuel. We don't need as much as we use in the galaxy map.

Irrelevant.
Fuel is constantly consumed in FTL due to the power generation required to run a current through the Eezo core.

The Mass Effect Envelope is present whether or not the ship is moving.
This is generated by the Eezo core.
The Normandy can sit in a system for weeks according to Joker, and it is never stated that fuel is the limiting factor.
The Normandy runs out of fuel in hours if it is moving.

Therefore, the fuel consumed by accelerating is extreme compared to the fuel consumed by powering the envelope.

And by your own reasoning, the ships would need to accelerate and decelerate a sh*tload to dump their charges.

[Vormaerin]

Its pretty funny watching people argue the science behind a space magic drive... Nobody in this thread knows anything about how it actually works or what would happen if people relied on it instead of on the relays.

[avantoreon]

The fuel problem maybe isn't as huge of an issue, if the fleets spend a while mining Jupiter for helium-3 or manage to reverse-engineer the reaper fuel tech.

Plus, it sounds like civilian ships don't have the same fuel limitations?
See the codex entry here: http://masseffect.wi...Thruster_Module

"[...] compared to "skimmer ships" that can gather hydrogen and oxygen from anywhere in the universe", so there's technology out there that doesn't require fuel depots.

Modifié par avantoreon, 08 avril 2012 - 04:33 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

brian_breed wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
you're still stuck with needing more fuel than god to get anywhere.

Check the OP for concerns on fuel. We don't need as much as we use in the galaxy map.

Irrelevant.
Fuel is constantly consumed in FTL due to the power generation required to run a current through the Eezo core.

The Mass Effect Envelope is present whether or not the ship is moving.
This is generated by the Eezo core.
The Normandy can sit in a system for weeks according to Joker, and it is never stated that fuel is the limiting factor.
The Normandy runs out of fuel in hours if it is moving.

Therefore, the fuel consumed by accelerating is extreme compared to the fuel consumed by powering the envelope.

And by your own reasoning, the ships would need to accelerate and decelerate a sh*tload to dump their charges.

Unless they found a way to travel that doesn't requiring discharge, which we know is possible because the Reapers did it!

[MakeMineMako]

Vormaerin wrote...

Given that the fleets took heavy casualties and Earth lost lots of its population, there's no reason to believe that the Earth couldn't support the survivors. And don't give me any BS about the Dextro vs Levo stuff. RIght now, today, we can synthesize foods with the alternate proteins. They are sold in stores even, as a kind of messed up dieting technique.

There's also the possibility that superior ftl drives could be built, but aren't because the Relays are so much more effective. There's all kinds of technologies in the real world that work, but were never used extensively because you could do the same thing better another way.

The Galaxy was in for a "Dark age" just from all the destruction the reapers caused. The loss of the Relays will make it worse for a while, certainly. Its not the end of galactic civilization.

Just FYI, there are about 80 star systems within a 2 day trip of Earth using the 12 ly/d standard. That's rather a lot of possibilities....


Edit:  The Centauri system is 8 hours away by that standard....

Good point.

Add in the fact that there are probably resource rich systems/clusters in areas outside the Relay routes, that were missed because of reliance on Mass Relays. Nice spots for way stations and colonies.

[MyChemicalBromance]

I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, but synthesis kind of solves the other two problems.

1.)It is possible that "Synthesee's" no longer need to eat.
2.)All the races will presumably work together right away, including the Reapers and Geth.

Maybe it is the best ending

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
you're still stuck with needing more fuel than god to get anywhere.

Check the OP for concerns on fuel. We don't need as much as we use in the galaxy map.

Irrelevant.
Fuel is constantly consumed in FTL due to the power generation required to run a current through the Eezo core.

The Mass Effect Envelope is present whether or not the ship is moving.
This is generated by the Eezo core.
The Normandy can sit in a system for weeks according to Joker, and it is never stated that fuel is the limiting factor.
The Normandy runs out of fuel in hours if it is moving.

Therefore, the fuel consumed by accelerating is extreme compared to the fuel consumed by powering the envelope.

Why would the Normandy be powering a mass effect field if it's stationary? Inertial would seem to still server your point, but why would the Normandy need to alter its mass while loitering undetected in a system? The fact the the eezo core is still pulsing when you're not moving does not mean it is generating a mass effect field.

"Turning off" an eezo core is probably more trouble than it is worth. We don't know enough about eezo to do more than speculate, but there is dust-form eezo, suggesting it can break down into a less usable state.

As a technically irrelevant but contextually relevant example, I'll say that "Turning off" a nuclear reactor is more difficult than letting it melt down.

Ehhhhhh. It would depend on how long you were going to be there. If you really did intend to loiter for weeks, I'd say it would be worth it to avoid having to discharge your core, which would probably give you away. To use your example, you can "turn off" a nuclear reactor by enough dropping lead(or other dense, stable materials) "SCRAM" rods, which is a safety measure in case of emergencies. There are already some in there to moderate the rate of fission and keep it from melting down. Once it is "turned off" it would then take some time to return to a temperature you can generate power from. Though I'd say leaving your car running if you're not going to be long because it's more efficient than turning it off and then starting it would be a better example.

As for "dust form" eezo, I'd guess that is less pure eezo that needs to be refined rather than eezo that has broken down. The stuff sits idle for millions or billions of years before we extract it.

[lillitheris]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...
1.)It is possible that "Synthesee's" no longer need to eat.

They still need energy.

[SilentK]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Ahh.. good memory there   =)   I forgot about the last bit there about many worlds. Well , then perhaps they are on a garden planet. All I am saying that one person not being able to fly does not mean that there is no spaceflight.

And I agree, travel will be much more dangerous. That comes with all the changes. Maybe I misinterperted your original post, but I thought you felt that it was a problem with the endings that there was no more fast travel. Hmm... I don't see it as a problem but rather as a new interesting turn of events. Wonder what will happen. But I think that they people living in this time will adapt.

Is it interesting? Sure. And galactic "civilization" will probably survive on some level in some places and eventually reemerge. But the OP and Weekes' "interview" seems to suggest we really didn't need the Mass Relays after all and that with some Reaper tech(which I'm sure will be incredibly easy to reverse engineer and won't indoctrinate us or anything) we'll be right back where we were in no time.I don't like the endings in general and I'm still waiting to see how the massive release of energy from the relays didn't kill everyone(Weekes supposedly said they were "overloaded" rather than ruptur but their destruction is not an inherent evil provided it's handled right(and we can possibly rebuild them).

Hmm... I guess in this case it comes down to what one person means with the word need. Needed for basic survival or needed for there to be a thriving galactic community. The later will probably wait for quite some time unless I'm mistaken. I do hope that they will be able to rebuild the relays one day. Wait and see I guess, and hope for the best.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, but synthesis kind of solves the other two problems.

1.)It is possible that "Synthesee's" no longer need to eat.
2.)All the races will presumably work together right away, including the Reapers and Geth.

Maybe it is the best ending

It's also possible the previously organic races are all dead from the massive and rapid mutilation of their genetic structure.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
As for "dust form" eezo, I'd guess that is less pure eezo that needs to be refined rather than eezo that has broken down. The stuff sits idle for millions or billions of years before we extract it.

Eezo is dark matter/energy. It exists in all space, but only becomes concentrated by supernova's.

[TurambarEA]

 "Even a dead god can dream" - good luck using that Reaper tech to do anything except have your crew walk themselves over to a bunch of husk spikes and jump on them, chest first.

You can't use Reaper tech and get away with it without losing your mind- this is stressed on many, many occasions throughout the series and even applies when the Reaper is dead (see dead Reaper/Legion recruitment mission in ME2).

But oh wait, space magic, pretty lights, clearly it doesn't apply this time, just like the relays exploding aren't actually EXPLODING this time ... so it's all good.

Modifié par TurambarEA, 08 avril 2012 - 04:38 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, but synthesis kind of solves the other two problems.

1.)It is possible that "Synthesee's" no longer need to eat.
2.)All the races will presumably work together right away, including the Reapers and Geth.

Maybe it is the best ending

It's also possible the previously organic races are all dead from the massive and rapid mutilation of their genetic structure.

We don't know enough about Synthesis to say either way

Hopefully "Clarification" will solve that.

[cutegigi]

how its stand now...nothing really matters. If writes say something happen then it will happen. By hook or by crook. They can even conjure up 1 starkid for every ship to help push the ship to their destination before they need next meal. so they all can have nice dinner at home.
happy ending. for ever after.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
As for "dust form" eezo, I'd guess that is less pure eezo that needs to be refined rather than eezo that has broken down. The stuff sits idle for millions or billions of years before we extract it.

Eezo is dark matter/energy. It exists in all space, but only becomes concentrated by supernova's.

Element Zero[/b] (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo', is a rare material that, when subjected to an electrical current, releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field, raising or lowering the mass of all objects within that field.

Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet, is affected by the energy of a star going supernova.

It manipulates dark energy, it is not composed of it, and is generated by the interaction of radiation from a supernova with solid matter. There are eezo/mines refineries mentioned in the games I believe, and certainly in the first book.

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, but synthesis kind of solves the other two problems.

1.)It is possible that "Synthesee's" no longer need to eat.
2.)All the races will presumably work together right away, including the Reapers and Geth.

Maybe it is the best ending

It's also possible the previously organic races are all dead from the massive and rapid mutilation of their genetic structure.

We don't know enough about Synthesis to say either way ../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png

Hopefully "Clarification" will solve that.

The other two "endings" are iffy enough, but Synthesis is straight-up space magic. It really makes no sense whatsoever and it would take one hell of a "clarification" to get me buy it, much less actually take that option again(I took it the first time because I was tired, confused, and Star-Jar successfully guilt-tripped me over the Geth and EDI).

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

TurambarEA wrote...

 "Even a dead god can dream" - good luck using that Reaper tech to do anything except have your crew walk themselves over to a bunch of husk spikes and jump on them, chest first.

You can't use Reaper tech and get away with it without losing your mind- this is stressed on many, many occasions throughout the series and even applies when the Reaper is dead (see dead Reaper/Legion recruitment mission in ME2).

But oh wait, space magic, pretty lights, clearly it doesn't apply this time, just like the relays exploding aren't actually EXPLODING this time ... so it's all good.

Synthesized Reapers may lend this technology to other synthesized life...

And just because the Reapers have the tech, doesn't mean we have to use it!

The Reaper's travel to the galaxy proved that the discharge problem could be solved. Hopefully survivors of the Destroy ending will know that they need to solve it on their own.

[Bantz]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, but synthesis kind of solves the other two problems.

1.)It is possible that "Synthesee's" no longer need to eat.
2.)All the races will presumably work together right away, including the Reapers and Geth.

Maybe it is the best ending

It's also possible the previously organic races are all dead from the massive and rapid mutilation of their genetic structure.

besides, not sure why they would all work together and be buddies. They all got forcefully evolved with synthetic dna (whatever the **** that is) but in the end Joker looked the same except for the eyes, and the crew getting off the normandy looked the same. Again another issue with how crappy the ending was. We know NOTHING of what actually happens with synthesis. Do they all start thinking alike? Do they heal fast? Can they talk to the geth? Can they stick their finger in a USB port and get information (Oh the fun the net would have with edi if that were the case).

It's entirely possible that the races are all like "WTF our eyes are glowing and I feel funny." Get pissed and rage out that shep, the guy the trusted to destroy the reapers instead gave in and gave them what the ultimately wanted. Not to mention it says all life will be merged. What about life that hasn't come yet? Is every plant in the galaxy now 50% more synthetic? So that if that plant evolves into an Ent it will be part synthetic as well?

Filling in a few gaps on our own is fine but the ending was so poorly written we have no idea what the hell synthesis actually does besides make up synethic dna and make peoples eyes glow.

[Noatz]

"Yeah sure Tali I can come to your house warming party, see you in 12 years."

Fail.

[Orthodox Infidel]

brp1410 wrote...

@Orthodox Infidel, Can you tell me what explains FTL = backwards in time? I was under the impression that general reletivity applied to FTL as well. 

I would have to dust off my physics textbook to remember exactly how it works, but I believe it's because the only way you can have FTL and relativity is to give up causality. Relativity itself doesn't require causality, but a lot of other things we see in our day to day lives do, which is why most sci-fi authors who sneak in FTL usually throw out relativity or shackle it with additional exceptions. 

[shepskisaac]

Apocsapel91 wrote...

rebo_tfc wrote...

Yeah cos those military ships have enough food for 23 years ....

And fuel...

No fuel, no discharge and only 9 years to cross the entire Galaxy when using tech from Reapers. Only food would be an issue.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 08 avril 2012 - 04:49 .