440 réponses à ce sujet

[MyChemicalBromance]

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

This is a real fact. It's believed the black hole provides some kind of protection. I don't remember from what but if I had to pull something out of my ass I would say radiation. The black hole in our galaxy is currently tearing apart a glowing cloud of gas that's currently flying several hundred thousand miles per hour into its death. Fun fact: supermassive black holes have a weight around a million to a billion times that of the sun.

Good point

Back to Math!

The Codex actually does give a limit for how close you can get to the core, give me a few minutes and I'll go calculate the actual shortest path.

[Gruzmog]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...


STOP.

There's a huge difference between dextro vs. levo sugars which is the crazy (and very stupid) diet fad, and dextro vs. levo proteins. On our planet, sugars are mostly dextro, while the amino acids are almost all levo. Synthesizing levo sugars would be a piece of cake, because most sugars are pretty easy to synthesize. Proteins are huge, complicated molecules that require many amino acids to make, and all the ones we know of in living things on this planet are levo.

You might be able to synthesize them in the future, but you're not going to be able to do enough of it to feed a population. I mean, if we could synthesize protiens enough for people to eat, we'd see meat grown in vats (which is something people are working on, but aren't quite there yet).

As long as the quarian are alive you have their liveships which include complete farma and fed their populace for decades by now. Unless they all died or were destroyed the turans and quarians are the least likely to die from food shortage.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

If you look at the galaxy map, all of the homeworlds can be reached from Earth without having to fly around the galactic core. I think you do have to do some flying around if you want to go to Omega, Ilos, or Horizon though.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

If you look at the galaxy map, all of the homeworlds can be reached from Earth without having to fly around the galactic core. I think you do have to do some flying around if you want to go to Omega, Ilos, or Horizon though.

All the Council homeworlds at least. Not of all the associate/unaffiliated species will be so easy to reach.

[MyChemicalBromance]

thefallen2far wrote...

Everyone's forgetting water. While food can be dehydrated and stored, water [the more important need] is heavier and requires constant consumption. Under the conditions you're indicating, you'll dehydrate before you starve. No ship faring vessel should have less than 100 ml per day, per person, and that's including sci-fi level filtration for urine. Any Hanar support is just outright going to die.

Not to mention oxygen. Space faring vessels shouldn't last longer than a a few months at a time for fear of lack of oxygen. While it's possible to have CO2 filters, you still need to supply oxygen..... and require any other gasses needed by any evolved species that uses anaerobic respiration.  Also, I don't think the Volus had lanned on needing to wait a few decades to resusitate their biosuits.

EDI can recycle the Oxygen.

Mass Effect Fields would allow you to store massive amounts of water in very small places/recombine it from hydrogen skimmed from gas giants with oxygen. This is already done in-lore.

As for the Volus, most of them are still on their homeworld. That bombing fleet may be in trouble though. That said, ammonia isn't that hard to come by, and the Volus has the shortest trip of anyone besides the Salarians.

[killnoob]

so the relay is destroyed because it is a symbol of reaper tech and reaper tech are bad, but at the end of the day we are still using the reaper technology to achieve FTL drives can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period in order to return ships stranded on Sol to their home world?

I am sensing another "Yo Dawg" meme

[MyChemicalBromance]

Codex Entry on Presrop:

Presrop is the moon of Klendagon. It is a frigid, barren world, with an extremely thin atmosphere of carbon dioxide and ethane. The crust contains plentiful deposits of heavy metals. The Alliance has opened bidding for the moon's mineral rights, but exploitation will be complicated by the system's proximity to the "Five Kiloparsec Ring" around the galactic core. The Ring is an area of intense star formation, and too dangerous to safely travel.

That's roughly 15,000 light years, that's significant enough that I will need to change the numbers.

[Vormaerin]

The relays were only bad in that they channeled civilization into controllable and easily accessible patterns. Terrans (for example) have spread to systems along the relay network instead of going every which way using other travel methods. When you can go to Arcturus (36 l-y) practically instantly or spend 8 hours to go to Centauri (4 l-y), the whole pattern of exploration and development is skewed.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

thefallen2far wrote...

Everyone's forgetting water. While food can be dehydrated and stored, water [the more important need] is heavier and requires constant consumption. Under the conditions you're indicating, you'll dehydrate before you starve. No ship faring vessel should have less than 100 ml per day, per person, and that's including sci-fi level filtration for urine. Any Hanar support is just outright going to die.

Not to mention oxygen. Space faring vessels shouldn't last longer than a a few months at a time for fear of lack of oxygen. While it's possible to have CO2 filters, you still need to supply oxygen..... and require any other gasses needed by any evolved species that uses anaerobic respiration.  Also, I don't think the Volus had lanned on needing to wait a few decades to resusitate their biosuits.

EDI can recycle the Oxygen.

Mass Effect Fields would allow you to store massive amounts of water in very small places/recombine it from hydrogen skimmed from gas giants with oxygen. This is already done in-lore.

As for the Volus, most of them are still on their homeworld. That bombing fleet may be in trouble though. That said, ammonia isn't that hard to come by, and the Volus has the shortest trip of anyone besides the Salarians.

Mass Effect fields would allow to lighten the mass, but using them to create enough gravity to compress it seems vastly less efficient than simply pumping it under pressure, and can only get you so far, before there simply isn't any more space no matter how much you compress it. It would also require constant alteration of its mass, which would then require more energy when you are trying to reduce the mass of the rest of the ship during flight. And yes you can create water(we can do that now) but each additional requirement is another logistical hurdle. It can be solved but the galaxy is not going to go right back to normal, or ever back to normal without some kind of replacement for the mass relays(hypothetically drive core technology could advance to the point where they essentially replicate the function of the relays and reduce your mass to almost nothing but I think we're quite some ways away from that).

[Orthodox Infidel]

thefallen2far wrote...

Everyone's forgetting water. While food can be dehydrated and stored, water [the more important need] is heavier and requires constant consumption. It's heavier than food, can't be reduced in mass for viable consumption and you require an emergency supply in case someone messes up something that contaminates or looses some of your supply.  Under the conditions you're indicating, you'll dehydrate before you starve. No ship faring vessel should have less than 100 ml per day, per person, and that's including sci-fi level filtration for urine. Any Hanar support is just outright going to die.

That assumes that all of the aliens have the same water consumption requirements as humans do (I bet the Quarians could get away with less), but it is a very good point. The question then becomes how much water that is. I don't think mass itself is that much of a problem in this particular sci-fi universe, but I'm not sure about that volume when you consider how many people would need water over the course of the whole trip.

Not to mention oxygen. Space faring vessels shouldn't last longer than a a few months at a time for fear of lack of oxygen. While it's possible to have CO2 filters, you still need to supply oxygen..... and require any other gasses needed by any evolved species that uses anaerobic respiration.  Also, I don't think the Volus had lanned on needing to wait a few decades to resusitate their biosuits.

That has... unfortunate implications for the Volus. The oxygen volume problem probably isn't as bad as the water one, though, because you can compress gas a lot.

[blooregard]

killnoob wrote...

so the relay is destroyed because it is a symbol of reaper tech and reaper tech are bad, but at the end of the day we are still using the reaper technology to achieve FTL drives can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period in order to return ships stranded on Sol to their home world?

I am sensing another "Yo Dawg" meme

I figure it would be a "spoils of war" scenario or something.

Perhaps since the relays are gone and there are reapers everywhere to scavange its more along the lines of "don't use what we give you work with what we left you" (or "give a man a fish and you feed him for a night, teach a man to fish and you feed him for the rest of his life")

[goose2989]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Sorry, but we need to be talking "home in months" instead of decades for this to approach happy.

Yea, and that nagging problem called "food" is still an issue

[Orthodox Infidel]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

If you look at the galaxy map, all of the homeworlds can be reached from Earth without having to fly around the galactic core. I think you do have to do some flying around if you want to go to Omega, Ilos, or Horizon though.

All the Council homeworlds at least. Not of all the associate/unaffiliated species will be so easy to reach.

Really? I thought most of them hung out in Asari or Turian space. I think you only really have problems if you're in the Terminus Systems. Or are Rachni.

[MyChemicalBromance]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Codex Entry on Presrop:

Presrop is the moon of Klendagon. It is a frigid, barren world, with an extremely thin atmosphere of carbon dioxide and ethane. The crust contains plentiful deposits of heavy metals. The Alliance has opened bidding for the moon's mineral rights, but exploitation will be complicated by the system's proximity to the "Five Kiloparsec Ring" around the galactic core. The Ring is an area of intense star formation, and too dangerous to safely travel.

That's roughly 15,000 light years, that's significant enough that I will need to change the numbers.

No it isn't actually. None of the species would have to take that into account when returning to their homeworlds.

[blooregard]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Codex Entry on Presrop:

Presrop is the moon of Klendagon. It is a frigid, barren world, with an extremely thin atmosphere of carbon dioxide and ethane. The crust contains plentiful deposits of heavy metals. The Alliance has opened bidding for the moon's mineral rights, but exploitation will be complicated by the system's proximity to the "Five Kiloparsec Ring" around the galactic core. The Ring is an area of intense star formation, and too dangerous to safely travel.

That's roughly 15,000 light years, that's significant enough that I will need to change the numbers.

No it isn't actually. None of the species would have to take that into account when returning to their homeworlds.

Yeah from Earth I don't think any of the council species have to go past the galactic core (Asari are near the Serpent Nebula, Krogan are near there too, Salarians, and Turians are pretty close to earth leaving the only ones that have a significant trek back home are the Quarians/Geth.


As for the Volus, Elcor, and Hanar I'm pretty sure they're all pretty close to the Serpent Nebula as well.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

If you look at the galaxy map, all of the homeworlds can be reached from Earth without having to fly around the galactic core. I think you do have to do some flying around if you want to go to Omega, Ilos, or Horizon though.

All the Council homeworlds at least. Not of all the associate/unaffiliated species will be so easy to reach.

Really? I thought most of them hung out in Asari or Turian space. I think you only really have problems if you're in the Terminus Systems. Or are Rachni.

Rachni can live anywhere though

But yeah, the Quarians are the worst off. But they also may be the best prepared.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

If you look at the galaxy map, all of the homeworlds can be reached from Earth without having to fly around the galactic core. I think you do have to do some flying around if you want to go to Omega, Ilos, or Horizon though.

All the Council homeworlds at least. Not of all the associate/unaffiliated species will be so easy to reach.

Really? I thought most of them hung out in Asari or Turian space. I think you only really have problems if you're in the Terminus Systems. Or are Rachni.

Elcor? I thought one of them was kinda out there, maybe I'm just remembering wrong. And most of the "unaffiliated" are in the Terminus systems, so you're probably right there. Though I think the Perseus Veil and Rannoch lie beyond the Terminus Systems.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[thefallen2far]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

EDI can recycle the Oxygen.

Mass Effect Fields would allow you to store massive amounts of water in very small places/recombine it from hydrogen skimmed from gas giants with oxygen. This is already done in-lore.

As for the Volus, most of them are still on their homeworld. That bombing fleet may be in trouble though. That said, ammonia isn't that hard to come by, and the Volus has the shortest trip of anyone besides the Salarians.

So I guess the Normandy is good to go.  Maybe they could reverse engenier the Normandy and its Cerberus/Reaper technology that allows her to do that and use those same specs on the other aliens' battle cruisers.  I'm sure they have the resources to make all the ships of all the fleets like the most advanced ship in the cosmos. Now where is the Normandy...... hmmmm.... oh right.  It's on a jungle planet in the middle of nowhere and the destroyed the organization that made it.

Modifié par thefallen2far, 08 avril 2012 - 06:07 .

[blooregard]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

If you look at the galaxy map, all of the homeworlds can be reached from Earth without having to fly around the galactic core. I think you do have to do some flying around if you want to go to Omega, Ilos, or Horizon though.

All the Council homeworlds at least. Not of all the associate/unaffiliated species will be so easy to reach.

Really? I thought most of them hung out in Asari or Turian space. I think you only really have problems if you're in the Terminus Systems. Or are Rachni.

Elcor? I thought one of them was kinda out there, maybe I'm just remembering wrong. And most of the "unaffiliated" are in the Terminus systems, so you're probably right there. Though I think the Perseus Veil and Rannoch lie beyond the Terminus Systems.

Quarian space lies way out on the far edge of the galaxy they're by far the furthest away 

[Foxcat]

Despite the concerns some have raised the ability to get home never seemed like the biggest problem to me. The mere existence of the star-child is a lore shattering introduction at the the final moment. Supernatural beings like the star child take ME in a very different direction. A direction so different that it only makes sense in the context of its OWN game not at the tail end of ME3. ME3 should have ended, happy, sad, melancholy or anywhere in between in a way consistent with the realities of the games before it. The codex itself is a perfect example. There are so many details we can fill in about the implications of these endings using whats available in game. THe only mention that might even remotely relate to the star child is the one planetary note...That is insufficient and untrustworthy. The codex's are written from a perspective where they can't be wrong. The planetary descriptions are constructs from within the in game universe.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Earth isn't 50,000[ly] from the core however, it is only 27,000[ly]. Given that it appears no homeworlds are farther than the distance between the Earth and the core (Besides Rannoch), I'll use it as an average.
27,000[ly]/12[ly/day]=2,300[days]

2,300[days]/365=only 6.3[years] And that is without Reaper upgrades. Super-close homeworlds, such as the Salarian homeworld, may only be 2 years away.

The Quarians have the longest journey ironically, (which we can estimate as around 73,000[ly]), but they are also the most well-suited to long distance travel.

[MyChemicalBromance]

blooregard wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

I would just like to point out that it is widely believed that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way and supposedly most if not all other galaxies. You would likely want to fly around it when crossing the galaxy.

If you look at the galaxy map, all of the homeworlds can be reached from Earth without having to fly around the galactic core. I think you do have to do some flying around if you want to go to Omega, Ilos, or Horizon though.

All the Council homeworlds at least. Not of all the associate/unaffiliated species will be so easy to reach.

Really? I thought most of them hung out in Asari or Turian space. I think you only really have problems if you're in the Terminus Systems. Or are Rachni.

Elcor? I thought one of them was kinda out there, maybe I'm just remembering wrong. And most of the "unaffiliated" are in the Terminus systems, so you're probably right there. Though I think the Perseus Veil and Rannoch lie beyond the Terminus Systems.

Quarian space lies way out on the far edge of the galaxy they're by far the furthest away 

The Elcor are very close to Earth. I added numbers that should cover everyone except the Quarians, and even they have less than a 23 year journey sans Reaper tech.

[blooregard]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Earth isn't 50,000[ly] from the core however, it is only 27,000[ly]. Given that it appears no homeworlds are farther than the distance between the Earth and the core (Besides Rannoch), I'll use it as an average.
27,000[ly]/12[ly/day]=2,300[days]

2,300[days]/365=only 6.3[years] And that is without Reaper upgrades. Super-close homeworlds, such as the Salarian homeworld, may only be 2 years away.

The Quarians have the longest journey ironically, (which we can estimate as around 73,000[ly]), but they are also the most well-suited to long distance travel.

Now the biggest problem I can think of right off the top of my head isn't where to put the supplies or anything its this: How long does it take to swap out wimpy Turian drive core and put in manly Reaper drive core? More importantly how long does it take for them to figure out how to reverse engineer it?

[MyChemicalBromance]

blooregard wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Earth isn't 50,000[ly] from the core however, it is only 27,000[ly]. Given that it appears no homeworlds are farther than the distance between the Earth and the core (Besides Rannoch), I'll use it as an average.
27,000[ly]/12[ly/day]=2,300[days]

2,300[days]/365=only 6.3[years] And that is without Reaper upgrades. Super-close homeworlds, such as the Salarian homeworld, may only be 2 years away.

The Quarians have the longest journey ironically, (which we can estimate as around 73,000[ly]), but they are also the most well-suited to long distance travel.

Now the biggest problem I can think of right off the top of my head isn't where to put the supplies or anything its this: How long does it take to swap out wimpy Turian drive core and put in manly Reaper drive core? More importantly how long does it take for them to figure out how to reverse engineer it?

Well those numbers don't rely on Dischargeless/Reaper tech. They can be achieved with the current FTL limitations.

You could, in theory, decrease all those times by 250% if your tech was as advanced as the Reapers, but it probably will depend on your ending as to how fast they do this or whether or not they choose to do that.

[Pandaman102]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Joker describes vat-grown meat on human ships, implies it is common. (1:21)

That gives an out for Levo-Amino Acids (Everyone except Quarians and Turians)

(Quoted from ME2 Codex)

There are few wide-open spaces in quarian spacecrafts; liveships are the exception. Each ship is a massive hydroponics facility, growing thousands of tons of genetically modified staple crops under artificial light and in highly enriched soil.
The surface of a liveship is studded with docking bays so as many shuttles as possible can distribute the foods throughout the flotilla on a daily basis. When received, the crops are sterilized with radiation, ground up into nutritious paste, and pumped into quarian suits through feeding tubes. In return, waste products are that could be used as fertilizer or compost are returned to the liveships through an efficient (if odorous) recycling program.
Liveships do not hold animals. The quarians consume a vegan diet, driven not by ethics but by practicality. Captive animals require living space, and consume large amounts of water and plant matter. The quarians cannot afford such an inefficient resource-to-calorie ratio, to say nothing of a live animal's disease or allergen potential. As a result, when the flotilla arrives in a star system where life is based on the same dextro-amino acids that the quarians consume, pastes based on animal proteins fetch highly inflated prices, and the vendors are typically mobbed by quarians wanting a new taste sensation. The sickness that often follows these binges is treated much the same way as hangovers are in human culture; painful, but part of the overall experience of excess.

And that covers Dextros.

 

You have to consider the concept of biomass. Given that Rannoch is on the other side of the galaxy, it will take the Quarians those two decades to travel from Earth to Rannoch. Without the convenience of mass relays to restock on certain necessities, Quarians will need to institute a strict breeding policy to prevent their biomass supply from running out (in the simplest term, every extra pound of Quarian means there's one pound less of biomass available to grow as food... unless Quarians resort to cannibalism).

The scenario of the Quarians helping feed the Turians (and help them return to Palaven before embarking on a journey back to Rannoch) requires one massive assumption: the production capacity of the Quarian agricultural ships. We don't know how many of the Quarians' civilians hopped off at Rannoch before the fleet jumped to Earth, nor do we know how many Turians there are that need to be fed; nor do we know if, Quarians being Quarians, the agricultural ships' hydroponic facilities were left on Rannoch to feed the still-immune-deficient Quarian civilians.

There are too many assumptions to make regarding the survivability of the dextro-based aliens, but one thing is definite: there is no future for Quarians and Turians on Earth, returning to their homeworld is their only option if their soldiers' wish to return to their normal lives.