550 réponses à ce sujet

[mikeloeven]

I like combining the submission net or biotic stasis with the kishock harpoon gun it is lighter than the black widow but a fully charged shot does almost as much damage well probably not but once you get into the one shot kill range it doesn't really matter any more. also the stasis or net gives you the time to line up a headshot liesurly and fully charge the weapon

Modifié par mikeloeven, 24 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[Kronner]

 

Rudy Lis wrote...
I guess it's not about "damage per shot", it's more about "damage rate" and even more about "dispatch rate" a.k.a. "amount of shots required to dispatch someone and how fast you can make those shots". If you can kill target with one shot from both rifles, BW will be overkill. If you can kill target with 2 shots from BW or 3 shots from Valiant, and you can fire from Valiant faster - you will dispose of enemies faster. Add Valiant faster reload...
IMHO BW/W/J performs well as big-game rifles, when there are few of those big-games. When it comes to larger crowds of small-game or mid-game, their RoF make it worse for them and their damage becames excessive.
It is still possible to use any weapon, but it's just about performance fitting your playstyle and fun. Game should be entertaining, isn't it?

 

Of course. I just don't like the Valiant very much because it has no recoil. I enjoy recoil.

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

What are the damage values at rank V on them? Do you happen to have a list handy for all of the firearms?

Check this page. The damage stat has two values. The first one is for level I, the second for level X. As it is linear function, you can easily determine level V values.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 avril 2012 - 03:34 .

[All-a-Mort]

mikeloeven wrote...

I like combining the submission net or biotic stasis with the kishock harpoon gun it is lighter than the black widow but a fully charged shot does almost as much damage well probably not but once you get into the one shot kill range it doesn't really matter any more. also the stasis or net gives you the time to line up a headshot liesurly and fully charge the weapon

Since when was the Harpoon gun available in SP?

[Rudy Lis]

Kronner wrote...

Of course. I just don't like the Valiant very much because it has no recoil. I enjoy recoil.

Recoil or muzzle-flip?

[Kronner]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Of course. I just don't like the Valiant very much because it has no recoil. I enjoy recoil.

Recoil or muzzle-flip?

Recoil. Muzzle-flip is just the effect of recoil. The sound plays a huge role too. I am unable to like weapons that sounds like pew-pew-pew. I want a "boom" sound 

Modifié par Kronner, 24 avril 2012 - 04:11 .

[Rudy Lis]

Kronner wrote...

Recoil. Muzzle-flip is just the effect of recoil. The sound plays a huge role too. I am unable to like weapons that sounds like pew-pew-pew. I want a "boom" sound 

Dis gun makes da loudest "BOOM"!
I'm totally up for it. But I like easy-to-control weapons too.

[JaegerBane]

SaturnRing wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...


In the Geth Primes's case, all they've done is replaced conventional bullets with thermal clips as you need just as many, totally defeating the object of the whole ME -based firing system.

Don't even get me started on why on earth the Geth are using Revenants, ML-77s, Scimitars etc in the first place

I'm with you on this. Ease of use and non combustion is pretty much the only upgrade from regular ammo. I 'm not sure why you'd limit it to Geth Prime case tho... 

I mentioned the Geth Prime because Rudy was talking about it, but it goes for the YMIR mechs too. Basically, they blast through the same number of thermal clips in one burst that my revenant goes through in a whole loyalty mission.

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
Of course. I just don't like the Valiant very much because it has no recoil. I enjoy recoil.

To be fair, the Black Widow is a difficult weapon to dislike. It's probably, all things being equal, the single most balanced sniper rifle in the whole ME series. It draws a line right down the middle between semi-auto and bolt-action SRs and basically offers the player a rifle thats never the worst option.

The Valiant though, is basically the semi-auto rifle from hell. It doesn't do bolt-action and doesn't pretend to, and as a result, it sports the best DPS of the lot (even better than the full-auto Indra, which is scary).

Really hard to choose between these two. Worse, I have to decide between whether to buy the Paladin or the BW first.

[Rudy Lis]

JaegerBane wrote...

I mentioned the Geth Prime because Rudy was talking about it, but it goes for the YMIR mechs too. Basically, they blast through the same number of thermal clips in one burst that my revenant goes through in a whole loyalty mission.

Like I said in my previous two coppers - it was done for spectacularity.

[SaturnRing]

JaegerBane wrote...


Really hard to choose between these two. Worse, I have to decide between whether to buy the Paladin or the BW first.

I got the BW first. But i admit that i was too eager to compare it to the W - I'm a little biased toward bolt action SR.

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Recoil. Muzzle-flip is just the effect of recoil. The sound plays a huge role too. I am unable to like weapons that sounds like pew-pew-pew. I want a "boom" sound 

Dis gun makes da loudest "BOOM"!
I'm totally up for it. But I like easy-to-control weapons too.

They probably had that in mind when they did the Valkyrie or the Argus too. I was expecting both to be smoother to operate.

[JaegerBane]

SaturnRing wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...


Really hard to choose between these two. Worse, I have to decide between whether to buy the Paladin or the BW first.

I got the BW first. But i admit that i was too eager to compare it to the W - I'm a little biased toward bolt action SR.

That's my choice, too. The basic idea on this playthrough (just finished up with my first Citadel visit post-Mars) will be to not buy *anything* until I've enough credits for the BW, followed by the Paladin. Once purchased, I'll upgrade my whole arsenal to V. I'm figuring my first playthrough, I wasted a fortune upgrading stuff I never subsequently used. This time, maybe I can get the Spectre kit early.

The only other weapons I'll be using in my weightless-modded playthrough will be the Hurricane, Particle Rifle and Scimitar, so I'll have them practically from the start. Tested this loadout on some N7 missions and its absolute wtfpwnage. Totally unnecessary on my Adept, but wtpwnage nonetheless

[Mr Arg]

Valiant. It does the job and is forgiving if i miss.

[JaegerBane]

Rudy Lis wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

I mentioned the Geth Prime because Rudy was talking about it, but it goes for the YMIR mechs too. Basically, they blast through the same number of thermal clips in one burst that my revenant goes through in a whole loyalty mission.

Like I said in my previous two coppers - it was done for spectacularity.

Perhaps - I thought it looked daft...

[numark]

So for those of us that don't have the Collector's Edition and access to the N7 Valiant, it's just down to the Black Widow then? Depending on our class/spec of course but I've been getting the general consensus that Black Widow is the way to go unless you want something more specific out of your gun.

[Brettic]

Kronner wrote...

Brettic wrote...

My reasoning is that you can get the valiants damage so close to the black widows.

And how do you do that?
BW X does 643 damage per shot, Valiant X is 396.

And this is base damage value. So all +damage upgrades benefit BW more.

That is not really close man. Though Valiant is much easier to use/has no recoil, so it will have some fans for sure.

Because after a point it gets to be where either one will one shot any random mook, and 2 shot any mook with shields or a barrier up, assuming headshots.

At that point the extra damage the BW deals is completely wasted on overkill.

The Black Widow will still do more damage to mooks that you can't one shot, like harvesters, brutes, atlas's banshees, geth primes.

But the Valiant will still drop all of them no problem and it won't take so much longer than the Black Widow that it would be significant. And there aren't enough of those types of monsters, even on Insanity, for it to matter.

So on Insanity, because of shield gating, the Valiant becomes a much better rifle,  because you can kill monsters with shield faster because of the rapid fire rate and the quick reload comes in very handy.

If we aren't considering the shield gating mechanic, such as on any difficulty other than Insanity, I would prefer the Black Widow, because at that point it's extra damage really comes into play and one shots all mooks besides the big baddies.

[Dark Penitant]

Brettic wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Brettic wrote...

My reasoning is that you can get the valiants damage so close to the black widows.

And how do you do that?
BW X does 643 damage per shot, Valiant X is 396.

And this is base damage value. So all +damage upgrades benefit BW more.

That is not really close man. Though Valiant is much easier to use/has no recoil, so it will have some fans for sure.

Because after a point it gets to be where either one will one shot any random mook, and 2 shot any mook with shields or a barrier up, assuming headshots.

At that point the extra damage the BW deals is completely wasted on overkill.

The Black Widow will still do more damage to mooks that you can't one shot, like harvesters, brutes, atlas's banshees, geth primes.

But the Valiant will still drop all of them no problem and it won't take so much longer than the Black Widow that it would be significant. And there aren't enough of those types of monsters, even on Insanity, for it to matter.

So on Insanity, because of shield gating, the Valiant becomes a much better rifle,  because you can kill monsters with shield faster because of the rapid fire rate and the quick reload comes in very handy.

If we aren't considering the shield gating mechanic, such as on any difficulty other than Insanity, I would prefer the Black Widow, because at that point it's extra damage really comes into play and one shots all mooks besides the big baddies.

Basically this; it's even worse for the one-shot rifles.

[SaturnRing]

numark wrote...

So for those of us that don't have the Collector's Edition and access to the N7 Valiant, it's just down to the Black Widow then? Depending on our class/spec of course but I've been getting the general consensus that Black Widow is the way to go unless you want something more specific out of your gun.

True, generally that seem to be the consensus. It is a good piece of equipment - not my first choice - but fits in a lot of situations. I favor the Widow or the Mantis tho; but If dealing massive damage is not my main concern, i usually  go with the Raptor or the Incisor (i haven't given up on the Incisor yet)

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

I got the BW first. But i admit that i was too eager to compare it to the W - I'm a little biased toward bolt action SR.

I choose Paladin - after they nerfed Phalanx, turning it into something between Carnifex and Predator, I prefer to fill most required slot. And that - for me - is pistol slot. For SR I got Valiant (and Indra, for now), for AR - Mattock, for Shotguns there is Crusader.
Plus, what you mean under "bolt rifle"? Any single-shot?

SaturnRing wrote...

They probably had that in mind when they did the Valkyrie or the Argus too. I was expecting both to be smoother to operate.

Recoil is fine - spread is not, they totally ruined whole meaning of "burst". Remember my Mattock tests few pages back? I tested Argus and Valkyrie in same manner. I got only around half of bullets on target. What is especially hilarious for Valkyrie. Yeah, good rifle for recruits - they still can't hit **** with it. Only why burst?
Vindicator is better, but still, he is just mere shadow of former self.

JaegerBane wrote...

That's my choice, too. The basic idea on this playthrough (just finished up with my first Citadel visit post-Mars) will be to not buy *anything* until I've enough credits for the BW, followed by the Paladin. Once purchased, I'll upgrade my whole arsenal to V. I'm figuring my first playthrough, I wasted a fortune upgrading stuff I never subsequently used.

One of positive sides of being cost estimator - I tested guns, lol'ed a bit and decided not to upgrade anything, but upgrades (with exception of Valiant, Hurricane and Crusader). Well, Cerberus armour first, of course. Fish second, then upgrades.
Since then I repeated this cycle pattern 4 times more and doing that for fifth. Maybe will do for sixth, I think Indra reignite that spark of gameplay for me.
And since they totally dropped everything, not just ball, in story-line department, those unskippable cutscenes are pissing me off!

JaegerBane wrote...

This time, maybe I can get the Spectre kit early.

Spectre kit?

JaegerBane wrote...

The only other weapons I'll be using in my weightless-modded playthrough will be the Hurricane, Particle Rifle and Scimitar, so I'll have them practically from the start. Tested this loadout on some N7 missions and its absolute wtfpwnage. Totally unnecessary on my Adept, but wtpwnage nonetheless

Yes, wtpwnage (hmm, I wonder, is it possible to replace displayed weapon name in game?). Still don't like that blowtorch. Although yesterday my dream-team melted "First Brute of Menae" (yes, quite flashy title - if game fails to entertain, I do it myself) with these soldering guns practially right on spot, almost instantly. Insanity my arse.

JaegerBane wrote...

Perhaps - I thought it looked daft...

We, plebs, cannot admire art.

[numark]

SaturnRing wrote...

numark wrote...

So for those of us that don't have the Collector's Edition and access to the N7 Valiant, it's just down to the Black Widow then? Depending on our class/spec of course but I've been getting the general consensus that Black Widow is the way to go unless you want something more specific out of your gun.

True, generally that seem to be the consensus. It is a good piece of equipment - not my first choice - but fits in a lot of situations. I favor the Widow or the Mantis tho; but If dealing massive damage is not my main concern, i usually  go with the Raptor or the Incisor (i haven't given up on the Incisor yet)

Yeah, Mantis' light weight is definitely a good point in its favor

Also, has anyone done any tests with scoping out Assault Rifles like the Mattock and Saber and using them in a Sniper role?  Are they an effective/viable alternative?

Sorry if it's been posted already I did a search but didnt come up w/ anything.

[Brettic]

numark wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...

numark wrote...

So for those of us that don't have the Collector's Edition and access to the N7 Valiant, it's just down to the Black Widow then? Depending on our class/spec of course but I've been getting the general consensus that Black Widow is the way to go unless you want something more specific out of your gun.

True, generally that seem to be the consensus. It is a good piece of equipment - not my first choice - but fits in a lot of situations. I favor the Widow or the Mantis tho; but If dealing massive damage is not my main concern, i usually  go with the Raptor or the Incisor (i haven't given up on the Incisor yet)

Yeah, Mantis' light weight is definitely a good point in its favor

Also, has anyone done any tests with scoping out Assault Rifles like the Mattock and Saber and using them in a Sniper role?  Are they an effective/viable alternative?

Sorry if it's been posted already I did a search but didnt come up w/ anything.

Mantis is good for classes other than infiltrator. For an infiltrator weight doesn't matter at all because cloak will have a 3 second recharge regardless of weight as long as you break it before it ends.

In regards to scoping weapons, the only things worth scoping to sub for sniper rifles are the Paladin and the Carnifex, they are practically Valiants by themselves.

and in regards to your earlier question, about not having the collectors weapons, Black Widow is then the best sniper rifle in the game for you. It gets to fire off 3 shots before you reload, so you can get off 2 shots with the cloak bonus damage, and after you fire your thrid and reload cloak will be back up again so you can go straight back into cloak and get two more cloaked shots off, this helps drop the big baddies really fast.

The black widow by itself will one shot every mook in the game besides the big ones on every difficulty besides insanity, where because of shield gating, you will need 2 shots. And it drops the big ones incredibly fast with the cloak shooting getting 2 cloaked shots off per reload cycle.

It's much faster at clearing out mooks than a single shot sniper rifle, I really wouldn't recommend them, but if that's what you want there's no reason not to use them, they are just less efficient. Single shot snipers are least effective on insanity because of shield gating. on other difficulties they work good because you can one shot anything, but you have to reload so that that's a pretty big downside. Better to use the BW and kill 3 things before you have to reload.

It's a single player game so you can really do whatever you want and succeed so do whatever you like, I just wanted to point out the strengths and weaknesses.

I should mention for mods, Concentration mod and extended barrel are the way to go, no matter what sniper rifle you are using.

Modifié par Brettic, 25 avril 2012 - 07:24 .

[All-a-Mort]

As this isn't an Infiltrator specific sniping thread, I shall pose the question of whether with a soldier it might be worth trying the Saber with Scope and AP mod as a sniper rifle (more DMR) due to it's stopping power, and take an SMG and shotty to cover the Exp Incendiary ammo spraying function that you might want to close ranges where slow heavy shots are not all that. Is the Saber any use as a long range weapon? Clearly not as powerful as a true SR, but Sniper soldier is for me increasingly a buzz kill as it spoils fun of Sniper Infiltrator build

[numark]

From what I can tell on the comments here and videos I've seen, scoping the Saber doesn't do a whole lot. Why? It's already got excellent accuracy as is, and a scope doesn't make a huge difference on it.  It helps, but it doesn't dramatically change things either way.

I highly reccomend checking out and/or subscribing to D4NNYB0Y1066's youtube channel, does a great series of vids on all weapons:
Saber target practice

Now for the Carnifax/Paladin, a scope makes a dramatic difference in long-range accuracy, the kind that can turn it into an alternate sniping weapon (even with the scope being just 2x magnification).
Carnifax target practice

-peace

[Rudy Lis]

All-a-Mort wrote...

As this isn't an Infiltrator specific sniping thread, I shall pose the question of whether with a soldier it might be worth trying the Saber with Scope and AP mod as a sniper rifle (more DMR) due to it's stopping power, and take an SMG and shotty to cover the Exp Incendiary ammo spraying function that you might want to close ranges where slow heavy shots are not all that. Is the Saber any use as a long range weapon? Clearly not as powerful as a true SR, but Sniper soldier is for me increasingly a buzz kill as it spoils fun of Sniper Infiltrator build

By my tests runs Saber has quite a delay between shots and very high muzzle-flip. Flip could be corrected by mouse, but that became an annoyance in long firefights (practically any firefights in game) or by stabilizing damper mod. That and scope, more or less required for accurate long-range firing. Don't get me wrong - even without them Sabre is quite accurate gun - on 50 metres all magazine could be put into half of target silhouette width (on Citadel's range), but there is significant pause between shots and muzzle-climb. For quick follow-up shots combo stabiliziler/scope are practically a must - without damper on those 50 metres muzzle-climb (and rise in point of aim) will be exactly target sheet height (same, on Citadel's range). For me - it's a way to much for comfortable shooting.
So I either drop scope or use AP ammo. Generally ammo.

SMG with IA works pretty fine, but, say, Hurricane's muzzle-climb rate became an issue for me, it's a way to high. And climb is growing with weapon's grade, it seems. So I stick either to Locust or Tempest. Hornet is good too, but sometimes it's more efficient to control length of burst personally.

Those are my two coppers, of course.

[Kronner]

Brettic wrote...

The Black Widow will still do more damage to mooks that you can't one shot, like harvesters, brutes, atlas's banshees, geth primes.

..

Well, that was my entire point. I do realize Valiant can one shot regular mook (with a headshot) and two shot Centurions etc., and I agree with you - it is more effective at killing trash enemies than BW due to the no recoil feature and faster reload. BUT, Black Widow really shines against heavily armored targets, and it's too bad there is not enough of those enemies in the SP campaign.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 avril 2012 - 01:14 .