550 réponses à ce sujet

[Brettic]

Kronner wrote...

Brettic wrote...

The Black Widow will still do more damage to mooks that you can't one shot, like harvesters, brutes, atlas's banshees, geth primes.

Well, that was my entire point. I do realize Valiant can one shot regular mook (with a headshot) and two shot Centurions etc., and I'd actually say it is more effective at killing trash enemies than BW due to the no recoil feature and faster reload. BUT, Black Widow really shines against heavily armored targets, and it's too bad there is not enough of them in SP campaign.

Correct, I would rate BW as better if that mattered more, but yeah, the lack of them in the game makes the valiant just better. It still does well against those as well, with the right armor set up of Kuwashii visor helm, hane kadar chest and legs, and armax arsenel gloves and shoulders, you can get weapond damage + 35% and headshot damage + 30% from your armor, then you can put on an extended barrel V for an extra 25% damage and the concentration mod for 15% damage, and with the valiant at level X, it's damage gets plenty high enough to replace the BW. You will just clear everything faster because you can drop all the mooks quicker cause you can make your headshots faster and just take everything out quickly, black widow is slower on that, and with all those damage boosts from mods and armor, you still take down the heavy mooks fast enough to not feel gimped against them vs taking the BW.

The mooks are the ones that are going to be causing problems, you die really fast when you get hit by them and grenades being chucked at you can ruin your day, so the faster you can take them out, the less fire you have incomming and the less grenades you have coming your way. It's the shielded mooks that cause the most trouble.

Modifié par Brettic, 25 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...


Recoil is fine - spread is not, they totally ruined whole meaning of "burst". Remember my Mattock tests few pages back? I tested Argus and Valkyrie in same manner. I got only around half of bullets on target. What is especially hilarious for Valkyrie. Yeah, good rifle for recruits - they still can't hit **** with it. Only why burst?
Vindicator is better, but still, he is just mere shadow of former self.

100% agree here. I've been saying that for a while: the whole point in making a weapon fire burst - except allowing operators better trigger control or better ammo management - is to get a more accurate weapon. If not what are we getting it for? The Vindicator was wreaking havoc in ME2 - as long as you had ammo( TC). The bursts were short enough to maintain a good target acquisition even in prolonged salvo. Now I'd take the Avenger(my favorite btw) over it any day.
As for side arm, i'm hanging onto the Carniflex until i can afford the Palladin. I do like the Predator tho ( it is very similar to a G 17 to me; it may lack power...) 

Modifié par SaturnRing, 25 avril 2012 - 02:25 .

[All-a-Mort]

Rudy Lis wrote...
By my tests runs Saber has quite a delay between shots and very high muzzle-flip. Flip could be corrected by mouse, but that became an annoyance in long firefights (practically any firefights in game) or by stabilizing damper mod. That and scope, more or less required for accurate long-range firing. Don't get me wrong - even without them Sabre is quite accurate gun - on 50 metres all magazine could be put into half of target silhouette width (on Citadel's range), but there is significant pause between shots and muzzle-climb. For quick follow-up shots combo stabiliziler/scope are practically a must - without damper on those 50 metres muzzle-climb (and rise in point of aim) will be exactly target sheet height (same, on Citadel's range). For me - it's a way to much for comfortable shooting.
So I either drop scope or use AP ammo. Generally ammo.


Those are my two coppers, of course.

Hmmm may not be my option then, was just thinking alouf, especially since we have discussed that SRs are rarely needed for short engagements in ME 3. I guess the issue is as well that it robs you of the fun of GPR, PR or Rev + AR/Marksman + Exp. Incendiary...nothing like melting brutes. Pity they gave so many otherwise good weapons daft recoil compared to others...I actually quite like the Argus when upgraded, but the recoil is way too much for what it delivers.

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

100% agree here. I've been saying that for a while: the whole point in making a weapon fire burst - except allowing operators better trigger control or better ammo management - is to get a more accurate weapon. If not what are we getting it for? The Vindicator was wreaking havoc in ME2 - as long as you had ammo( TC). The bursts were short enough to maintain a good target acquisition even in prolonged salvo. Now I'd take the Avenger(my favorite btw) over it any day.

Nah, I dislike Avenger since ME2 - first, barrel/scope reverse replacement, second - innate innacuracy. With that spread I take my AK anyday - at least I can hit what I aiming at. And with certain customization I can make it quite comfortable and ergonomic.
In ME3 I still prefer Mattock - I totally and absolutely LOVE that trigger. It's perfect.

SaturnRing wrote...

As for side arm, i'm hanging onto the Carniflex until i can afford the Palladin. I do like the Predator tho ( it is very similar to a G 17 to me; it may lack power...) 

Not sure 9x19 actually "lack" power. Neither is Predator, but with that firing sound? "pewing"? Come on!
Otherwise it's quite good gun, one of best when it comes to RoF. IIRC you can empty mag faster than Eagle (when you download Eagle to 15 rounds).
Personally I stick to Eagle due larger ammo cap, then Phalanx and then Paladin.
Have nothing against Glock, like concept, but dat grip... Man, it's awful. CZ-75 anyday.

All-a-Mort wrote...

Hmmm may not be my option then, was just thinking alouf, especially since we have discussed that SRs are rarely needed for short engagements in ME 3. I guess the issue is as well that it robs you of the fun of GPR, PR or Rev + AR/Marksman + Exp. Incendiary...nothing like melting brutes. Pity they gave so many otherwise good weapons daft recoil compared to others...I actually quite like the Argus when upgraded, but the recoil is way too much for what it delivers.

Get Indra if you on PC. Or Incirsor, if you not. With IA they both works fine on mid-short range (and tat's pretty all ranges in game). Perfect, I'd say - I melt Brutes on Menae quite fast with Indra. I don't use IA for same reason I don't use Particle Rifle - as good man JaegerBane said it's pure "wtfpwnage", so I use other combos.
Raptor could be interesting alternative for you, but it has same "quirk" as Mattock - you have to tap your trigger button quite often. And it eats ammo faster than hungry soldier consumes his ration.

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Nah, I dislike Avenger since ME2 - first, barrel/scope reverse replacement, second - innate innacuracy. With that spread I take my AK anyday - at least I can hit what I aiming at. And with certain customization I can make it quite comfortable and ergonomic.
In ME3 I still prefer Mattock - I totally and absolutely LOVE that trigger. It's perfect. 

What? The Avenger is fantastic (at least in ME3). To me it's the more versatile and balanced AR. Behaving exactely like an AR 15 class weapon would. Vast improvement from ME2 and pin point accurate...
I see that i'm not the only one who's nuts about the Predator - i wish it had a more appealing design. But i love that pistol.

[JaegerBane]

Rudy Lis wrote...
Plus, what you mean under "bolt rifle"? Any single-shot?

Yup - easier to type than 'SR you have to reload after every shot'

One of positive sides of being cost estimator - I tested guns, lol'ed a bit and decided not to upgrade anything, but upgrades (with exception of Valiant, Hurricane and Crusader). Well, Cerberus armour first, of course. Fish second, then upgrades.
Since then I repeated this cycle pattern 4 times more and doing that for fifth. Maybe will do for sixth, I think Indra reignite that spark of gameplay for me.
And since they totally dropped everything, not just ball, in story-line department, those unskippable cutscenes are pissing me off!

I think the problem is that I needed to upgrade guns to see whether I could balance the weight and whether they fitted into my arsenal, and some weapons frankly looked like they were going to fit the bill but as time went on, I found better stuff that functionally replaced it. For instance I didn't test the Valiant properly and spent a ton on the Viper, only to realise the Valiant is just better. Same went for what happened with the Carnifex and then managed to buy the Paladin.

I really tried to like the Crusader, but it just isn't cricket. The single precision slug would have been nice had the Paladin not walked all over it in terms of performance, and it doesn't really do well in the shotgun's traditional role, so it really isn't something I can put up with. A shame really, as its got a really cool model.

And this is coming from a guy who's rmoved the weight mechanic from his game, so it's appalling weight isn't even a factor in my choice.

As for story - up until the ending, I really enjoyed the story, so for me its no chore at all.

Spectre kit?

Stuff from the Spectre Requisitions - i.e. Paladin and BW.

Yes, wtpwnage (hmm, I wonder, is it possible to replace displayed weapon name in game?). Still don't like that blowtorch. Although yesterday my dream-team melted "First Brute of Menae" (yes, quite flashy title - if game fails to entertain, I do it myself) with these soldering guns practially right on spot, almost instantly. Insanity my arse.

Yeah, well - beam weapons are few and far between in action games, and the Particle Rifle is probably one of the best I've seen in a loooong time (much better than FEAR 2's Laser). No AR can contest its position for me

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...

Brettic wrote...

The Black Widow will still do more damage to mooks that you can't one shot, like harvesters, brutes, atlas's banshees, geth primes.

..

Well, that was my entire point. I do realize Valiant can one shot regular mook (with a headshot) and two shot Centurions etc., and I agree with you - it is more effective at killing trash enemies than BW due to the no recoil feature and faster reload. BUT, Black Widow really shines against heavily armored targets, and it's too bad there is not enough of those enemies in the SP campaign.

I've seen this sentiment mentioned a few times, and I'm not certain its actually correct. The BW's Burst DPS is incredible, true, but against *big* dudes like Atlases etc, in the time it takes to get three rounds from a BW on target and reload, I've been able to get about 6 rounds from Valiant *at least*. At that rate a target is going to go down quicker. I might do some testing to see.

'Course, carrying a Paladin *and* a BW gives you the best of both worlds

Modifié par JaegerBane, 25 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

What? The Avenger is fantastic (at least in ME3). To me it's the more versatile and balanced AR. Behaving exactely like an AR 15 class weapon would. Vast improvement from ME2 and pin point accurate...

Yes, it is improved and Avenger X is quite decent, but, like I said - barrel axis height, plus sound (it's awful) and in "nekkid" state, without mods, it's not that much accurate. Well, it much better than Valkyrie, which sends about half of shots "somewhere over there" or Argus, which doing it for two of three shots. Generally you can lay whole mag into target sheet and I guess you even will be able to land majority of shots into dark silhouette and with damper and scope you can achieve good Mattock results putting whole mag into tight "box".
Plus, it is still possible to do single shots with careful pressing on trigger, but it's not that kind of weapon - IMHO Avenger is a bit underpowered on Insanity. Even X, even with IA. For caster - maybe it is good option (nor sure for IA), but for soldier?
Should they revert barrel back to it old ME1 position, give some new juicy sound - well, I will have problems choosing AR, because I like concept if Avenger design. However, Mattock is a bit more appealing to me, generally I prefer to lay shots in semi-auto, not full auto. So instead of Indra I'd prefer ME2 Mattock accuracy back.
Not sure for AR-15, though, but I like that rifle.

SaturnRing wrote...

I see that i'm not the only one who's nuts about the Predator - i wish it had a more appealing design. But i love that pistol.

Performance is more or less fine, design and sound are not.

JaegerBane wrote...

Yup - easier to type than 'SR you have to reload after every shot'

bolt-action
single-shot

Hmm. something tells me there are 11 symbols anyway.

JaegerBane wrote...

I think the problem is that I needed to upgrade guns to see whether I could balance the weight and whether they fitted into my arsenal, and some weapons frankly looked like they were going to fit the bill but as time went on, I found better stuff that functionally replaced it. For instance I didn't test the Valiant properly and spent a ton on the Viper, only to realise the Valiant is just better. Same went for what happened with the Carnifex and then managed to buy the Paladin.

Well, I fell with Viper too, and even play with it quite long, so I'm not sorry for it.
Regardless, they could implement "virtual" range on Normandy, right near "gunshop" so you can save>upgrade>T&E and either keep it or revert and try something else. Or made that gunshop on Citadel's range.

JaegerBane wrote...

I really tried to like the Crusader, but it just isn't cricket. The single precision slug would have been nice had the Paladin not walked all over it in terms of performance, and it doesn't really do well in the shotgun's traditional role, so it really isn't something I can put up with. A shame really, as its got a really cool model.

Paladin isn't available at first pick-up (and that's Sgt. Reeves). Crusader is. It has uber-fast reload, minimum delay between shots and it hits where you aiming it. Plus some AP functions by default, if I got it right. What's not to like? Yes, weight. But even if I remove it, I still will have -200% overload. Why bother?
Of course, I'd prefer some "buckshot" type of shotgun, but they all are way too innacurate for me. I have no problems with those who likes to keep it up close and personal, but where I grow up - two is a crowd, so I have wider area of what they call "personal space".

But what I really don't get in all shotguns and SMGs - lack of stock. WTF? Rifles have collapsible stocks, shotguns and SMGs doesn't?
No, I don't think stock could help Shuriken, but Hurricane could be improved. Plus all shotguns. Better recoil distribution and 3 points of contact (hands and shoulder) are better than 2 (hand).

JaegerBane wrote...

And this is coming from a guy who's rmoved the weight mechanic from his game, so it's appalling weight isn't even a factor in my choice.

*Admiringly* You monster!

JaegerBane wrote...

As for story - up until the ending, I really enjoyed the story, so for me its no chore at all.

I did not. I disliked it from very beginning of demo. There are few bright moments, but rest is just dull and "placeholder". They should crop all "blah-blah" for action mode. It's much funnier to replay some mission without long unskippable intro and long unskippable cutscenes inbetween when you just to shoot something or just test and evaluate guns.
Yeah, we demand better shooting range! GTA Vice City had it and it was console game and it was released a helluva time ago!

JaegerBane wrote...

Stuff from the Spectre Requisitions - i.e. Paladin and BW.

And Wraith?

JaegerBane wrote...

Yeah, well - beam weapons are few and far between in action games, and the Particle Rifle is probably one of the best I've seen in a loooong time (much better than FEAR 2's Laser). No AR can contest its position for me

I think in Halo 2 those beams were decent.
But PR... Well, I don't like design. Totally. I'm not Liara, I don't care much about prothean heritage and when I hear Javik I can't help but remembering Little Jacob and Real Badman from GTA IV. If you haven't played, at least see some youtube.
Generally it's fine gun, not sure if overpowered, but I like other.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 25 avril 2012 - 04:29 .

[Stormbringer3]

IA? I've seen this mentioned a few times but I'm having a mind blank on that IA means.
Thanks.

[Kronner]

 

Brettic wrote...
..

The mooks are the ones that are going to be causing problems, you die really fast when you get hit by them and grenades being chucked at you can ruin your day, so the faster you can take them out, the less fire you have incomming and the less grenades you have coming your way. It's the shielded mooks that cause the most trouble.

 

I realize how powerful Valiant is, but I simply dislike it for what it is - a no recoil sniper rifle...just does not compute for me.

Anyway, based on my experience, mooks pose no threat because any and all powers easily disable/kill them. Often you can kill multiple mooks in one combo (any) cycle. Based on my experience, only very few enemies are an actual threat, and that is only when they surprise you or catch you in a bad spot (turret, ravager, harvester - they can deal insane damage in a very short period of time). But overall, Insanity in ME3 is a joke. For me, it is still kinda fun to play, but that's mainly because I enjoy using some weapons (Claymore, Black Widow) a LOT. 

JaegerBane wrote...

I've seen this sentiment mentioned a few times, and I'm not certain its actually correct. The BW's Burst DPS is incredible, true, but against *big* dudes like Atlases etc, in the time it takes to get three rounds from a BW on target and reload, I've been able to get about 6 rounds from Valiant *at least*. At that rate a target is going to go down quicker. I might do some testing to see.
'Course, carrying a Paladin *and* a BW gives you the best of both worlds

That's BW II used at its full potential. Not sure Valiant can beat that time.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 avril 2012 - 04:57 .

[Rudy Lis]

JaegerBane wrote...

I've seen this sentiment mentioned a few times, and I'm not certain its actually correct. The BW's Burst DPS is incredible, true, but against *big* dudes like Atlases etc, in the time it takes to get three rounds from a BW on target and reload, I've been able to get about 6 rounds from Valiant *at least*. At that rate a target is going to go down quicker. I might do some testing to see.

Since my shooting timer cannot register ingame "bang" as loud enough (but can register my neighbor's sneezing as one - too much for soundproofing), I use my watches.
In 6 seconds, BW is capable to do 3 shots and reload. Sometimes to make 4th shot, but since my watches are regular watches, I can't say exact split.
In same 6 seconds, Valiant can fire 3 times, reload, fire 3 more times, reload, fire 2 times more. Not sure for 3rd time - I'd say it goes over split.

For 15 seconds, Valiant doing 21 shots (3>R>3>R>3>R>3>R>3>R>3>R>3). Timesplit happens on transition between last shot and reloading. Mostly on last shot.
For 15 seconds, BW doing 12 shots (3>R>3>R>3>R>3) timesplit - in middle of reloading.

Both rifles tested only for rapid fire, no following on aiming point (yet I held zoom key). No mods installed, both weapons X grade.

Stormbringer3 wrote...

IA? I've seen this mentioned a few times but I'm having a mind blank on that IA means.
Thanks.

Incendiary ammo. Generally mod to explosive.
WA - warp ammo.
CA - cryo.
DA - disruptor.
AP - armour-piercing.
I think those are all.

[Kronner]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Both rifles tested only for rapid fire, no following on aiming point (yet I held zoom key). No mods installed, both weapons X grade.

Did you take advantage of the reload cancel with the Black Widow? I am pretty sure I can do better than 3 shots per 6 seconds.

Also, do not forget that paper DPS never translate into the game directly. On Gold/Insanity, it is best to limit the time you are exposed to enemy fire to a minimum.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 avril 2012 - 05:02 .

[Rudy Lis]

Kronner wrote...

Did you take advantage of the reload cancel with the Black Widow? I am pretty sure I can do better than 3 shots per 6 seconds.

Obviously not.
But with it I was able to squeeze only 1 more shot. And I wasn't aiming at all.

Kronner wrote...

Also, do not forget that paper DPS never translate into the game directly. On Gold/Insanity, it is best to limit the time you are exposed to enemy fire to a minimum.

Valiant is generally fine because you don't have to realign scope or unzoom for dilation re-kick, you just send all rounds downrange in rapid succession.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 25 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[Kronner]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Obviously not. 

 

Too bad. It really helps with the slow reloading weapons.

Rudy Lis wrote... 
Valiant is generally fine because you don't have to realign scope or unzoom for dilation re-kick, you just send all rounds downrange in rapid succession.

That has nothing to do with it. Enemies will zoom in on you sooner or later. If you simply stand in one spot and shoot, you WILL take damage. So it's better to sidestep a bit and reload while you are not in their line of fire etc. 
Little things like that. Valiant is obviously one of the most powerful weapons though.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 avril 2012 - 05:07 .

[Rudy Lis]

Kronner wrote...

Too bad. It really helps with the slow reloading weapons.

See above. It gave my just one more round. Of course, I did only two runs with it. Plus interrupted reload will kick you out of cover, if you was hiding.
But I played MP only once and on friend's PC, so my MP experience is about zero.

Kronner wrote...

That has nothing to do with it. Enemies will zoom in on you sooner or later. If you simply stand in one spot and shoot, you WILL take damage. So it's better to sidestep a bit and reload while you are not in their line of fire etc. 
Little things like that. Valiant is obviously one of the most powerful weapons though.

I know. But my point was - it is possible to empty Valiant fast enough to a) keep dilation intact, to receive only minor damage and then get back into cover.
I don't mean you can just stand there under enemy fire. Maybe on Narrative...

[Kronner]

Rudy Lis wrote...

See above. It gave my just one more round. Of course, I did only two runs with it. Plus interrupted reload will kick you out of cover, if you was hiding.
But I played MP only once and on friend's PC, so my MP experience is about zero.

I know. But my point was - it is possible to empty Valiant fast enough to a) keep dilation intact, to receive only minor damage and then get back into cover.
I don't mean you can just stand there under enemy fire. Maybe on Narrative...

OK then. Anyway, I'd recommend reload cancelling with either Cloak, spacebar, or medigel, whichever is more suitable at any given moment. IMHO it's generally not beneficial to actually enter cover, it is much better to just stand and take tall cover without actually entering it. Saves a lot of time.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[Rudy Lis]

Kronner wrote...

OK then. Anyway, I'd recommend reload cancelling with either Cloak, spacebar, or medigel, whichever is more suitable at any given moment.

There is no cloak for soldier. And with my overload, generally I prefer to keep Adrenaline as emergency speed-reload.
Spacebar works fine, only if you not playing with Particle Rifle - for me you have to wait till it actually begin to recharge, or any spacebar move will reset process. Which is no good, because generally you doing lumberjack dance. Of course you can only blame yourself if you empty it to that stage, but it happens.
Medigel reload works only if there are injuries (at least for me). Generally Vega is one having 1 hit point less, not sure why, but sometimes even he is fine.

Kronner wrote...

IMHO it's generally not beneficial to actually enter cover, it is much better to just stand and take tall cover without actually entering it. Saves a lot of time.

Generally I agree, but sometimes there are no tall cover or enemies are able to shoot through it somehow, while when you sticking to cover - they didn't. Maybe it's bug, not sure. IMHO crouching could save a lot of efforts.
Alas, they "correct" gamers complains in very interesting way - by amputations. Good they are not medics and we not complaining on headaches.

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...


That's BW II used at its full potential. Not sure Valiant can beat that time.

Obviously, thats what we need to test. The thing is, the Valiant is doing 3/5ths the damage the Widow is doing each round but delivering them at nearly three times the rate. Its not really clear cut from the data alone.

[Rudy Lis]

JaegerBane wrote...

Obviously, thats what we need to test. The thing is, the Valiant is doing 3/5ths the damage the Widow is doing each round but delivering them at nearly three times the rate. Its not really clear cut from the data alone.

Don't forget that outside of practical ROF I tested, there is "combat ROF", affected by target acquisition time, since targets generally don't just stand still.
But still, Indra can kill CAT with 5 headshots or so and 10 bodyshots or so. Tested it yesterday on Eden Prime about 4 hours. I don't want to say she's more effective than Valiant, just stating some numbers.
Probably will try to test BW and Valiant today or tomorrow.

[JaegerBane]

Rudy Lis wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Obviously, thats what we need to test. The thing is, the Valiant is doing 3/5ths the damage the Widow is doing each round but delivering them at nearly three times the rate. Its not really clear cut from the data alone.

Don't forget that outside of practical ROF I tested, there is "combat ROF", affected by target acquisition time, since targets generally don't just stand still.
But still, Indra can kill CAT with 5 headshots or so and 10 bodyshots or so. Tested it yesterday on Eden Prime about 4 hours. I don't want to say she's more effective than Valiant, just stating some numbers.
Probably will try to test BW and Valiant today or tomorrow.

I would assume the Indra would be even more affected by "combat RoF" than the Valiant would be, considering it derives virtually all its damage from keeping the target in your sights.

That said, its the most accurate fully-auto weapon other than the Particle Rifle, so it's actual, practical DPS was always going to be very high - a bit of a beast. It just isn't something you'd take for traditional sniping.

Like I said before, there are three sniper rifles in ME3 - Indra, Valiant and Black Widow. All others are pretenders, they bow down to them.

[Rudy Lis]

JaegerBane wrote...

I would assume the Indra would be even more affected by "combat RoF" than the Valiant would be, considering it derives virtually all its damage from keeping the target in your sights.

Not that much with current projectiles velocity - sometime enemies manage to miss few rounds. So Valiant, somewhat could deal more damage, since enemies generally try to avoid damage after they were hit. Well, Cpt Obvious and all that.

JaegerBane wrote...

That said, its the most accurate fully-auto weapon other than the Particle Rifle, so it's actual, practical DPS was always going to be very high - a bit of a beast. It just isn't something you'd take for traditional sniping.

It's not something you take for anything. IRL recoil will spoil that type of targeting. Unless you use some heavy damper mount, sort of remote turret, or like that, maybe MG on tripod. But generally those for long range engagement, not "around 50".
Gameplay wise I think Indra and PR fitting that "pure fun" role ME2 Mattock had. Like you said "wtfpwnage"

JaegerBane wrote...

Like I said before, there are three sniper rifles in ME3 - Indra, Valiant and Black Widow. All others are pretenders, they bow down to them.

I think you named Raptor last time. But it doesn't really matter - we can use anything we want and still beat game. "It named insanity for reason: two thresher maws, on foot, in melee? No problem!"

[AK404]

Just throwing in my two cents. After going through the game twice as an Infiltrator, I'm inclined to put the BW and N7 at the top for their semi-auto feature, but when I'm playing on Insanity, I often found myself gravitating towards the Javelin or old-school Widow for two reasons: ME2 had me pretty much trained to use cloak with every shot, and because I had to wait to use my cloak, this allowed me to pace myself more efficiently, directing squadmates to blow away shields and barriers on protected targets while I searched for unprotected targets to take out.

Of course, I found myself regretting this when I had to take on Banshees, but no one sniper rifle covers all bases.

[SaturnRing]

JaegerBane wrote...


I would assume the Indra would be even more affected by "combat RoF" than the Valiant would be, considering it derives virtually all its damage from keeping the target in your sights.

That said, its the most accurate fully-auto weapon other than the Particle Rifle, so it's actual, practical DPS was always going to be very high - a bit of a beast. It just isn't something you'd take for traditional sniping.

Like I said before, there are three sniper rifles in ME3 - Indra, Valiant and Black Widow. All others are pretenders, they bow down to them.

While i don't totally agree with you statement, i can see where you're coming from. To me the question is how relevant  SR are in a game with such level design? One thing is sure after reading all previous posts, a lot of AR can get the job done; job that traditionally was reserved to SR. What makes them relevant to me is the class that i play (infiltrator) and my approach as far as combat is involved. Their use comes down to preference rather than  necesssity - the Game limitations - lack of great distances, gravity or wind - makes the SR/AR matchup somewhat unfair for snipers.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 25 avril 2012 - 11:07 .

[mybudgee]

I haven't used it, (360) but i heard the Indra ROYALLY sucks...

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

While i don't totally agree with you statement, i can see where you're coming from. To me the question is how relevant  SR are in a game with such level design? One thing is sure after reading all previous posts, a lot of AR can get the job done; job that traditionally was reserved to SR.

Although most of police operations generally involves ranges up to 300 metres, give or take, some of them could be even closer. And IIRC military operations in build-up areas also could involve similar "short" ranges. Yet sniper rifles still used.

I think main problem of ME2/3, when they decided to make weapon distinctly different in 2 and then add "fillers" for 3, is lack of proper feeling of weapon system and weapons' properities, like mass or power. I don't mean those "death spins" - energy transmission calculations anyone?

For example, Widow supposed to be AMR, so it's basically .50 BMG of modern days. How many people we heard of, actually survived wound from such weapon? Okay, future, armor, implants. It's still AMR, so it's power should be adjusted as well. Not sure it will be accepted, but, I'd say Widow should not only OSOK most of enemies, it should make fights with Atlases much easier. Sort of "two shots - we got new atlas". And it's weight. 40 kg my arse - I cannot help but lol at game ending, after "SCUD defense" scene, when convoy arrives to Beam, stops and decide to execute final run. I like how Shepard runs with Widow or Black widow - holding them in one hand and waving them like they made of carton. Yes, he got implants, it's still 40 kg weapon. Try to wave 20 litres jerrycan this way. Try to stop it instantly at ending phases. Feel pain in joints and muscles? Even if armor is somehow powered, all servos will be overloaded. Same reason precludes tank crews using gyro-stabilizer of their cannons all the time - too much load and it's quite precise technic. Not to mention how 40kg weapon should encumber soldier in general, not only doing all those rolls.

Plus there is a way too much weapon now, some of which are barely distinct or needed. I understand, collector's edition, pre-order bonuses, but still. "Lots of guns lies ahead of you. Most of them useless".

SaturnRing wrote...

What makes them relevant to me is the class that i play (infiltrator) and my approach as far as combat is involved.

I play as soldier and still like SR. Not only because it gives spare ammo.

SaturnRing wrote...

Their use comes down to preference rather than  necesssity - the Game limitations - lack of great distances, gravity or wind - makes the SR/AR matchup somewhat unfair for snipers.

Not sure gravity or wind or distance somehow affect those projectiles - space magic mass effect fields. Remember ME where you could lay round from SR exactly where you aimed it (minus autoaim, be it damned till the end of time) at 400 metres almost instantly. Well, that hypervelocity.

mybudgee wrote...

I haven't used it, (360) but i heard the Indra ROYALLY sucks...

Depends how you use it and with that class you play.
I find her quite entertaining. Entertaining enough to make me start my sixth replay (first five were done in March and I haven't touched ME3 since, so calculate yourself).
I replayed several parts of game (to Sur'Kesh so far), comparing Indra with different ammo types (minus Warp, I don't like it), so far I like that rifle. Like I said - it made me replay ME3, that's enough praise for me.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 26 avril 2012 - 12:06 .