550 réponses à ce sujet

[Zaidra]

I say Mantis (due to high damage and less weight than most other sniper rifles, plus it just looks awesome). That's always been my favorite (besides the widow). I know that a lot of people say that the Valiant is terrible, but I really love that gun (there's something about how it handles that makes it the sniper that I'm best with). After those two, it would have to be javelin (due to high damage, and the awesome noise it makes when you shoot it )

Modifié par Zaidra, 18 mai 2012 - 12:59 .

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

Exactly! I have to start thinking about giving them a name.

Don't tell anyone - I began 9th playthrouth with Viper, Mattock, Phalanx and GPS.

Zaidra wrote...

I say Mantis. That's always been my favorite (besides the widow). I know that a lot of people say that the Valiant is terrible, but I really love that gun. After those two, it would have to be javelin.

Valiant is terrible?! Maybe Viper?

[LD_Dragon]

In responce to weight to damage ratio, Mantis wins that contest. Valiant works well as well, it gives you more room for error. The Javelin is strong, but weighs a ton. I know people love the Widow series, but I still think that the Geth have always made the best weapons. Now if only we had a weight decrease on the Javelin.

[Rudy Lis]

LD_Dragon wrote...

In responce to weight to damage ratio, Mantis wins that contest.

What kind if damage - per shot, per certain time split, per ammo carried and comparable to what? To rifles if his own weight? If yes, then he wins only third and only against armoured targets. Against soft targets - not so much.

LD_Dragon wrote...

The Javelin is strong, but weighs a ton. I know people love the Widow series, but I still think that the Geth have always made the best weapons. Now if only we had a weight decrease on the Javelin.

Actually they do - against soft targets difference between Javelin and competitors is irrelevant, but against armoured targets, Javelin is better.

[LD_Dragon]

Rudy Lis wrote...

LD_Dragon wrote...

In responce to weight to damage ratio, Mantis wins that contest.

What kind if damage - per shot, per certain time split, per ammo carried and comparable to what? To rifles if his own weight? If yes, then he wins only third and only against armoured targets. Against soft targets - not so much.

LD_Dragon wrote...

The Javelin is strong, but weighs a ton. I know people love the Widow series, but I still think that the Geth have always made the best weapons. Now if only we had a weight decrease on the Javelin.

Actually they do - against soft targets difference between Javelin and competitors is irrelevant, but against armoured targets, Javelin is better.

I was kind of taking into consideration base damage in the stats of the gun in comparison to the weight of the gun only. I wasn't factoring in all those details.

Modifié par LD_Dragon, 18 mai 2012 - 01:30 .

[Rudy Lis]

LD_Dragon wrote...

I was kind of taking into consideration base damage in the stats of the gun in comparison to the weight of the gun only. I wasn't factoring in all those details.

Per shot then. In this case you right.

[capn233]

2022... I like DA/SA, but would rather have striker than DAO.

The Javelin does less damage than the Widow in SP, I think it bears repeating. It does have more cover penetration and a free enhanced scope.

I considered the Val more forgiving than BW not because you need to score headshots, but if you miss you can follow-up faster.

Mantis is a good all around rifle, improved since ME2 where the clip capacity was poor.

[Rudy Lis]

capn233 wrote...

2022... I like DA/SA, but would rather have striker than DAO.

Never tried that one.
Personally I don't see reason for DA on pistols. Maybe for sub-compacts, but even there I'm not sure. Prefer SA.

capn233 wrote...

The Javelin does less damage than the Widow in SP, I think it bears repeating. It does have more cover penetration and a free enhanced scope.

In terms of kill-shot-rate Mantis, Widow and Javelin are identical on small and mid-game - either you have to make second shot or not. On Big game Javelin is better, because of probably better innate armour-piercing.

capn233 wrote...

I considered the Val more forgiving than BW not because you need to score headshots, but if you miss you can follow-up faster.

Yeah, but you need more shots with innacurate firing and with Valiant default supply it is *sniff* "problematic".

capn233 wrote...

Mantis is a good all around rifle, improved since ME2 where the clip capacity was poor.

Well, we had no upgrades from I to X in ME2.

[CerebraLArsenaL]

Im starting a sniper Puppet-neer (an Engy with Decoy, I send out toys, confuse battlefield, then pick them off) Whats the best non-headshot rifle for that?

[Reuben702]

Javelin because it looks and sounds awesome.

[Rudy Lis]

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

Im starting a sniper Puppet-neer (an Engy with Decoy, I send out toys, confuse battlefield, then pick them off) Whats the best non-headshot rifle for that?

If you don't plan to use ammo powers from team-mates, then something single-shot and powerful. If you do - then Indra, if you have it (grab James and train his squad Incendiary Explosive, it will be less effective than your own, but it's still worthy). If James is unacceptable, then you can train AP or WA as bonus powers. For New Game, you probably have to stick to Mantis, since as I understand, Engineer rely on cooldown and Javelin and Widows are just too heavy. If you not, then really, Javelin will be better for big-game (Banshee, Harvester, Atlas), maybe a tad worse for small game (CATs, Cannibals).

[capn233]

Rudy Lis wrote...

capn233 wrote...

2022... I like DA/SA, but would rather have striker than DAO.

Never tried that one.
Personally I don't see reason for DA on pistols. Maybe for sub-compacts, but even there I'm not sure. Prefer SA.

I haven't fired a P250.  Supposedly the trigger is very good for DAO, but it is a really long pull of course.  The DA on the 2022 is fairly long, but I can of course fire it SA and that is nice and short, and better than what you get on a striker gun.
[/offtopic]

[ontopic]

In terms of kill-shot-rate Mantis, Widow and Javelin are identical on small and mid-game - either you have to make second shot or not. On Big game Javelin is better, because of probably better innate armour-piercing.

Javelin is not better than the Widow at large targets because it does slightly less damage in single player (~90 at X).  Neither has armor piercing for free, not that it matters because 50pt reduction to 1000damage isn't a lot anyway.  The free cover penetration helps on the Atlas, but Widow has enough for the double damage as well.

If you meant Jav compared to Mantis, then you can ignore my discussion.  All I was speaking to was Jav v Widow.

Yeah, but you need more shots with innacurate firing and with Valiant default supply it is *sniff* "problematic".

Maybe it is moot if you can't hit anything.  I suppose it is debatable.  I think Valiant is easier to use, but I do not really feel more effective with it than the Black Widow.  At least not on Soldier or Infiltrator.

Modifié par capn233, 20 mai 2012 - 03:00 .

[SmittyLovesYou]

The valiant is by far the best. Light weight, good damage, low recoil, quick reload and multiple shots per clip.
For the most part that is all I carry, no smg, no pistol, just the valiant.

The mantis is my back-up. Light weight, good damage, and with the infiltrator's time dilation getting the headshots isn't hard. Got to have a back up though for the close to mid range, phalanx is preferred (please bring back the laser sight, I hate that scope)

P.S. - I really don't know why people love the widows, they're sooo heavy. And they're so inefficient unless your going up against Brutes, Primes, or mechs.

[Rudy Lis]

capn233 wrote...

I haven't fired a P250.  Supposedly the trigger is very good for DAO, but it is a really long pull of course.  The DA on the 2022 is fairly long, but I can of course fire it SA and that is nice and short, and better than what you get on a striker gun.

I heard that, but still don't like DAO outside of revolvers.

capn233 wrote...

Javelin is not better than the Widow at large targets because it does slightly less damage in single player (~90 at X).  Neither has armor piercing for free, not that it matters because 50pt reduction to 1000damage isn't a lot anyway.  The free cover penetration helps on the Atlas, but Widow has enough for the double damage as well.

Well, then explain me why some of big-games require less shots from Javelin to deal with them? Not on random basis, like WA vs AP, but constantly? Yes, it's 1 shot generally, but that 1 shot is ~5 seconds of plain time (and one saved round!).
Of course there is yours truly in that equation, but outside of my tests I don't play with either of them, so I can't say I'm more proficient with any of them.

capn233 wrote...

Maybe it is moot if you can't hit anything.  I suppose it is debatable. 

I meant head-shots vs body-shots. Or bodyshots only on biggame like Banshee or Brute - who don't have headshot damage bonus.

capn233 wrote...

I think Valiant is easier to use, but I do not really feel more effective with it than the Black Widow.  At least not on Soldier or Infiltrator.

Since I tested guns without armour and skill bonuses (including ammo), I fail to see how other classes could affect those rifles performance - as far as I know soldier's speed bonus to weapon's handling I suggested in some thread is not implemented.
Valiant fires faster, reloads faster and deliver required amount of damage faster. Yes, it has less ammo supply, that could be corrected via armour, Glyph bonuses and spare ammo mod for rifle itself. Phantoms are constant problem, but Stasis, ED or GPS solves that. Otherwise you still have to perform lumberjack dance, since only Cronus' catwalks have more or less space, allowing you to shoot them before they approach at firing range of their palm "Protectors".

[SaturnRing]

capn233 wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

capn233 wrote...

2022... I like DA/SA, but would rather have striker than DAO.

Never tried that one.
Personally I don't see reason for DA on pistols. Maybe for sub-compacts, but even there I'm not sure. Prefer SA.

Me neither. DA feels like overkill to me. Don't see any use for it ( ease? transition from revolver to pistol back in the days? - SA seems easier to utilize in most cases).

@Rudy Lis : i was wondering if pics of SR(Valiant/Indra) could be posted...on this thread. To kinda answer your request.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 21 mai 2012 - 02:08 .

[capn233]

I don't know what to tell you on the Javelin. It does less damage than the Widow in SP so it shouldn't take less shots to kill anything. I didn't notice a difference at all though, since the damage is like 993 for Jav vs 1083 for Widow.  In MP the Javelin does do more damage than the Widow, but that is the result of balance changes (3/27 in fact: Damage increased from 795.0-993.7 to 1030.5-1288.1... meaning Jav I only does 50 less damage than Widow X and Jav X does 200 more).

As for Soldier and Infiltrator, both have time dilation built in, totally passive for the Infiltrator and with Adrenaline Rush on Soldier, which means you should be able to hit targets easier than with other classes. Granted, you could always take the Concentration mod, although I do not care for it all that much, especially with how it stacks on top of Infiltrator passive and ARush making things very slow.

The other thing is that the large damage bonuses from Cloak and ARush mangnify the difference in damage per shot.

Modifié par capn233, 21 mai 2012 - 02:38 .

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

Me neither. DA feels like overkill to me. Don't see any use for it ( ease? transition from revolver to pistol back in the days? - SA seems easier to utilize in most cases).

Yeah, unnecessary on anything but revolvers.

SaturnRing wrote...

@Rudy Lis : i was wondering if pics of SR(Valiant/Indra) could be posted...on this thread. To kinda answer your request.

You mean those three inspirationals?

capn233 wrote...

I don't know what to tell you on the Javelin. It does less damage than the Widow in SP so it shouldn't take less shots to kill anything. I didn't notice a difference at all though, since the damage is like 993 for Jav vs 1083 for Widow. In MP the Javelin does do more damage than the Widow, but that is the result of balance changes (3/27 in fact: Damage increased from 795.0-993.7 to 1030.5-1288.1... meaning Jav I only does 50 less damage than Widow X and Jav X does 200 more).

I don't care about multiplayer, I play only single. And I'm aware of that table, but my tests show me shots-to-kill-wise Javelin either equal to Widow or more powerful. On small game, for bodyshots, there is no "hard" range of damage - I've seen how Widow took out 7 bars of enemy health, and how Javelin took 9 (and vice-versa, and yes, I'm pretty sure that fault of gasket between rifle and ground (well, technically between mouse and chair)). On big game, Javelin requires same or less shots than Widow. I don't know how to colour it in any way other than Javelin being more powerful. Regardless of ammo, mods, armour or lack thereof.

capn233 wrote...

As for Soldier and Infiltrator, both have time dilation built in, totally passive for the Infiltrator and with Adrenaline Rush on Soldier, which means you should be able to hit targets easier than with other classes. Granted, you could always take the Concentration mod, although I do not care for it all that much, especially with how it stacks on top of Infiltrator passive and ARush making things very slow.

The other thing is that the large damage bonuses from Cloak and ARush mangnify the difference in damage per shot.

I think I told that I tested guns without skills (including ammo, the only skill I used - Fitness, evolved via shields' strengh) and practically ignoring Adrenaline Rush throughout the whole game (and totally ignoring it in my tests), since I don't like way it's implemented. And even when I used it, I used it as emergency run-away, not damage dealer. Sometimes I even didn't used Concentration - Indra's influence, I guess. So I really don't see how other classes could perform worse than my soldier.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 21 mai 2012 - 04:05 .

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...

You mean those three inspirationals?

Yes indeed.

[XoningOut]

Said Incisor... Changed my d mn mind. Just practiced some with the Javelin...I am a god... An angry sniper god.

[SaturnRing]

All the SR look good and have the right proportions. The best looking SR to me however...are the one I DON'T HAVE. D#mn you Indra and Valiant. Why you had to look so good?

[LD_Dragon]

XoningOut wrote...

Said Incisor... Changed my d mn mind. Just practiced some with the Javelin...I am a god... An angry sniper god.

Took the Javelin with me on the final mission in SP. While defending the Missles, I was pleased with how quickly a Javelin shot, then Warp combo tore through the Brutes and Harvester. And I was playing on Hardcore.

[JaegerBane]

SaturnRing wrote...

All the SR look good and have the right proportions. The best looking SR to me however...are the one I DON'T HAVE. D#mn you Indra and Valiant. Why you had to look so good?

It is just the way of things. If it makes you feel any better, they're both based on the incisor model, so if you can stand to use a sniper rifle made out of purified fail then you can be like us Valiant Indras too

[JaegerBane]

SmittyLovesYou wrote...

The valiant is by far the best. Light weight, good damage, low recoil, quick reload and multiple shots per clip.
For the most part that is all I carry, no smg, no pistol, just the valiant.

The mantis is my back-up. Light weight, good damage, and with the infiltrator's time dilation getting the headshots isn't hard. Got to have a back up though for the close to mid range, phalanx is preferred (please bring back the laser sight, I hate that scope)

P.S. - I really don't know why people love the widows, they're sooo heavy. And they're so inefficient unless your going up against Brutes, Primes, or mechs.

I think the thing with the Valiant is that its less of a traditional video game sniper rifle (MUST 1S1K EVERYTHING) and more a dedicated, specialised long range weapon. Full power scope, suppressed recoil, semi-auto firing, relatively high impact rounds, fast reload and access to all the sniper mods - it feels like it was designed to allow the user to engage any opponent under any conditions at long range... hence its very flexible. In comparison, the widows and the javelin feel like they were more orientated towards purely 1S1K approach... which is a much narrower niche and, once the Valiant has been upgraded, its not even worth anything as the Valiant ends up 1-shotting the majority of the enemies the Widows/Javelin 1-shot.

I have to admit that I can see the draw of the Black Widow at least... I just don't think its really worth the 250k over and above the Valiant. Hell, I'm not convinced the Black Widow is actually better than the Valiant at all.

[SaturnRing]

JaegerBane wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...

All the SR look good and have the right proportions. The best looking SR to me however...are the one I DON'T HAVE. D#mn you Indra and Valiant. Why you had to look so good?

It is just the way of things. If it makes you feel any better, they're both based on the incisor model, so if you can stand to use a sniper rifle made out of purified fail then you can be like us Valiant Indras too

I guess that'll have to do for now.

[Rudy Lis]

JaegerBane wrote...

In comparison, the widows and the javelin feel like they were more orientated towards purely 1S1K approach...

 
Only failing.

JaegerBane wrote...

which is a much narrower niche and, once the Valiant has been upgraded, its not even worth anything as the Valiant ends up 1-shotting the majority of the enemies the Widows/Javelin 1-shot.

And what Valiant cannot one-shot, it can kill faster than those "oars".

JaegerBane wrote...

I have to admit that I can see the draw of the Black Widow at least... I just don't think its really worth the 250k over and above the Valiant. Hell, I'm not convinced the Black Widow is actually better than the Valiant at all.

BW is "better" in terms of damage dealt per total ammo carried - it has that upgrade, yet Valiant is stuck with 30+3 eternally. In short firefights, Valiant still be faster and more powerful by total damage dealt, but in long it just ran out of ammo at the end. Should it have at least 60 rounds total (Okay, 50) - that could sway situation to his favour even more.
To be on par with Javelin, which, by my tests, is most powerful rifle on the long run in terms of total damage dealt to big game, Valiant needs 69+3 rounds. On small game, with 48+3 rounds it will be most powerful rifle out there. So, simply put - should we be able to distribute thermal clips as we see fit...