550 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudy Lis]

Indra anyone?

[Exeider]

I love my regular Widow, the Black Widow doesn't do as much damage though it has a higher firing rate.

I absolutely love my widow, I only wish I could of gotten it back sooner in game. oh well guess that's what new game plus is for. I LOVE the fact that I can give it to garrus, me and him become a two man wreaking crew with out widows, having Tali run as point defense with her Scimitar shotgun.

I love the widow, I will love it to the day I die, because it saved my ass back in ME2, I killed the reaper with my last bullet, everything else was spent, heavy weapon, pistols, sub machine gun, everything. I was down to my last round. I targeted the reaper and his eye swung right into the dead center of my cross hair.

BAM!!

killed it, and watched the ending. Now that was a game.......

-AE

[JaegerBane]

DJCS wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

capn233 wrote...

If you think cover penetration (which is different than armor piercing in this game) is useless, then you aren't being imaginative enough.

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting its useless, we just don't understand why DJCS thinks that it introduces some sort of revolution in sniping and is worth cutting your killing rate in half 99% of the time.

The Javelin is saddled with some painful disadvantages that mean that even if you're one-shotting targets you'll still struggle to keep up with the BW - the issue is that DJCS seems to think that being able to hit an enemy behind cover makes up for the fact that you can kill multiple enemies in the same amount of time.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm not, I'm summarising what you're saying. Look back through your posts on the matter - at one point you even imply that the ability to shoot through cover actually makes the Javelin a faster killing weapon in the long run...

[Spectre-61]

The Javelin. It already has an nhanced scope (see through smoke) and it's armor piercing. Put a concentration mod on to couter the fire delay and the barrel. 4 Mods in one gun.

That's why the Javelin is my sniper rifle of choice in SP.

[benlg]

Black widow
Widow
Viper

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

JaegerBane wrote...

DJCS wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

capn233 wrote...

If you think cover penetration (which is different than armor piercing in this game) is useless, then you aren't being imaginative enough.

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting its useless, we just don't understand why DJCS thinks that it introduces some sort of revolution in sniping and is worth cutting your killing rate in half 99% of the time.

The Javelin is saddled with some painful disadvantages that mean that even if you're one-shotting targets you'll still struggle to keep up with the BW - the issue is that DJCS seems to think that being able to hit an enemy behind cover makes up for the fact that you can kill multiple enemies in the same amount of time.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm not, I'm summarising what you're saying. Look back through your posts on the matter - at one point you even imply that the ability to shoot through cover actually makes the Javelin a faster killing weapon in the long run...

That's because I think it does.

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

variobunz wrote...

The Javelin. It already has an nhanced scope (see through smoke) and it's armor piercing. Put a concentration mod on to couter the fire delay and the barrel. 4 Mods in one gun.

That's why the Javelin is my sniper rifle of choice in SP.

Careful, you might get attacked for having an opinion. And that's the very reason I use it sometimes.

[JaegerBane]

DJCS wrote...

That's because I think it does.

I'm not sure what this video has to do with what you're arguing. In that video I counted about 6 situations where penetration was actually relevant and probably about 2 where the BW couldn't have performed to that level, and none where a split second of movement would have accomplished the same result... vs the dozen or so situations where having more than one enemy to deal with would have been dealt with faster using the BW simply because of reloading and charge-up.

No-one is saying the Javelin is not a potent weapon. Your argument is that the Javelin's penetration outways its slower killing speed. Putting up a video which demonstrates running around waiting to reload for 10 minutes doesn't really add to that.

For that matter, no-one is 'attacking' you for having an opinion, either - your logic and reasoning is being questioned, thats all. That's what tends to happens in forums.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 20 avril 2012 - 04:12 .

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

JaegerBane wrote...

DJCS wrote...

That's because I think it does.

I'm not sure what this video has to do with what you're arguing. In that video I counted about 6 situations where penetration was actually relevant and probably about 2 where the BW couldn't have performed to that level, and none where a split second of movement would have accomplished the same result... vs the dozen or so situations where having more than one enemy to deal with would have been dealt with faster using the BW simply because of reloading and charge-up.

No-one is saying the Javelin is not a potent weapon. Your argument is that the Javelin's penetration outways its slower killing speed. Putting up a video which demonstrates running around waiting to reload for 10 minutes doesn't really add to that.

For that matter, no-one is 'attacking' you for having an opinion, either - your logic and reasoning is being questioned, thats all. That's what tends to happens in forums.

As I mentioned, it can kill any Cerberus enemy in 1 shot [aside from Atlas' and turrets.] I think that outweighs the Black Widow's 3 shot thermal clip. Add that to the ability of killing enemies through walls and seeing anyone on the battlefiled reguardless of where they are, and the built in mods, and it makes up for the 'one shot' style. The Black Widow may work better for you, and that's fine, but as I said in my first post, its about your playstyle and how you and your weapons are spec'd. As for the charge-up, thats one of my favorite features of the Javelin. You could go the entire game without missing a single shot if you are an Infiltrator and/or use the concentration mod.

[PROTOTYPE_ZERO]

Valiant is great for long range on a caster class (upgraded it's fairly light). I liked Black Widow on my Infiltrator.. had enough power w/TC to one shot most enemies and I could get 2 kills in the same time for a Javelin/Widow to get 1.

[Leon Zweihander]

BW can still oneshot low-mid mobs on Insanity, and does it better thanks to having 3 clips instead of Javelin's 1. Even BW has piercing qualities, I've tried the shot on that video through the glass window and it resulted in a kill. The only true advantage Javelin has is the ability to target through smoke, and that advantage is moot imo, when you're killing everything faster with a BW. As you've said best sniper depends on playstyle, but facts are BW is more efficient.

[JaegerBane]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Indra anyone?

The indra is really cool.... imo it's superior to the Raptor for a sniper/AR hybrid. I switch between that and the valiant for most of the early game.

[FFinfinity1]

Honestly the Valient and Black Widow are neck and neck

[Doriath]

JaegerBane wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Indra anyone?

The indra is really cool.... imo it's superior to the Raptor for a sniper/AR hybrid. I switch between that and the valiant for most of the early game.

Yeah I have a feeling it would be my favorite rifle if it was available on the xbox. Hope they DLC it at some point.

[JaegerBane]

chrisnabal wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Indra anyone?

The indra is really cool.... imo it's superior to the Raptor for a sniper/AR hybrid. I switch between that and the valiant for most of the early game.

Yeah I have a feeling it would be my favorite rifle if it was available on the xbox. Hope they DLC it at some point.

Thats a shame - presumably it'll get released as part of a DLC at some point.

[Rudy Lis]

JaegerBane wrote...

The indra is really cool.... imo it's superior to the Raptor for a sniper/AR hybrid. I switch between that and the valiant for most of the early game.

I played with it a bit with friend's infiltrator on his laptop and I think it is very interesting rifle. Maybe not "best", since people generally prefer something like mini-howitzer (no offense, I like "dis gun make da loudest boom" myself), but pure fun and joy to use. Joyful enough to convince me to play sixth time. It's just pure pleasure to use, like old Mattock.

[nobrat]

Since shield gates are a non issue with squadmates and the extra ability, the javelin for its default scope.   Multiplayer ofc it's the black widow.

Modifié par nobrat, 21 avril 2012 - 04:04 .

[JaegerBane]

DJCS wrote...
As I mentioned, it can kill any Cerberus enemy in 1 shot [aside from Atlas' and turrets.] I think that outweighs the Black Widow's 3 shot thermal clip. Add that to the ability of killing enemies through walls and seeing anyone on the battlefiled reguardless of where they are, and the built in mods, and it makes up for the 'one shot' style. The Black Widow may work better for you, and that's fine, but as I said in my first post, its about your playstyle and how you and your weapons are spec'd. As for the charge-up, thats one of my favorite features of the Javelin. You could go the entire game without missing a single shot if you are an Infiltrator and/or use the concentration mod.

I think you have to draw a distinction by what's superior and what fits your playstyle better. Ultimately if something happens to fit your playstyle or just 'feels right' then no amount of stats or videos is going to convince someone otherwise, but that isn't really the focus of that debate (or the thread). What we were doing was comparing objectively how different features stacked up against each other to figure out which was the optimal one.

I mean, the charge-up feature is a good example of the distinction here - you may have gotten used to it (to the extent you expect it) but having to allow for charge-up time is simply never going to be as efficient as the shot going off as soon as you pull the trigger. Not only does it slow your killing rate down but it also adds on the chance that you'll miss.

It doesn't matter, however, since you've clarified that you were largely speaking out of personal preference as oppose to direct comparisons - hence my confusion

[All-a-Mort]

Out of interest (since I don't have the PC version) is the Indra the rifle that sniper in the London trailer had? Looks more like that than the Valiant or Incisor.

[SaturnRing]

All-a-Mort wrote...

Out of interest (since I don't have the PC version) is the Indra the rifle that sniper in the London trailer had? Looks more like that than the Valiant or Incisor.

Incisor.


Correct me if i'm wrong. I like that question considering that it did not appear to be firing 3rounds burst in the trailer

Modifié par SaturnRing, 21 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[All-a-Mort]

SaturnRing wrote...

All-a-Mort wrote...

Out of interest (since I don't have the PC version) is the Indra the rifle that sniper in the London trailer had? Looks more like that than the Valiant or Incisor.

Incisor.


Correct me if i'm wrong. I like that question considering that it did not appear to be firing 3rounds burst in the trailer

Hmm guess it could be incisor considering in in-game cutscenes we often see weapons firing with firerates not available normally (automatic Mattocks etc)

[SaturnRing]

All-a-Mort wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...

All-a-Mort wrote...

Out of interest (since I don't have the PC version) is the Indra the rifle that sniper in the London trailer had? Looks more like that than the Valiant or Incisor.

Incisor.


Correct me if i'm wrong. I like that question considering that it did not appear to be firing 3rounds burst in the trailer

Hmm guess it could be incisor considering in in-game cutscenes we often see weapons firing with firerates not available normally (automatic Mattocks etc)

^That sounds good to me. That's the extra step the Incisor needed: semi-auto. It wouldn't have made up for it's lack of kinetic energy down range but it would have been a good start.

[jakenou]

My Infiltrator is tied between Valiant and Black Widow. Tend to use Valiant more often because of it's speed/versatility, but loves the power of the BW

[JaegerBane]

SaturnRing wrote...

All-a-Mort wrote...

Out of interest (since I don't have the PC version) is the Indra the rifle that sniper in the London trailer had? Looks more like that than the Valiant or Incisor.

Incisor.


Correct me if i'm wrong. I like that question considering that it did not appear to be firing 3rounds burst in the trailer

I dunno, maybe its what the rifle would have fired like had the in-game weapon reflected its codex entry. It is supposed to fire it's bursts at a massive RoF comparable to a single round.

But yeah, definitely the Incisor.

[SaturnRing]

JaegerBane wrote...


I dunno, maybe its what the rifle would have fired like had the in-game weapon reflected its codex entry. It is supposed to fire it's bursts at a massive RoF comparable to a single round.

But yeah, definitely the Incisor.

Yeah, i certainly "feel" the 3rd burst when i fire it; enough to loose target acquisition every time. That's a good concept for AR - as the M 16 or AN 94 (2 rd burst) prooves - but for SR...

Modifié par SaturnRing, 21 avril 2012 - 06:53 .