550 réponses à ce sujet

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Nope. 7.62 and 5.45 AK have comparable ballistic and spread (accuracy) for up to 200 metres. Differences begin further - 5.45 has flatter trajectory, but is a bit light.

What? When i think that they skipped the 5.56 and went from 7.62 straight to  5.45 to get better accuracy. Well at least they get a good range out of that round. You never seen a Famas: the black french bullpup gun with a built in  bipod...5.56; 960m/s.  Average accuracy. It's an ok AR. The Mattock looks like it.

[Bat130]

Watch or you hate MASS EFFECT :

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

What? When i think that they skipped the 5.56 and went from 7.62 straight to  5.45 to get better accuracy.

 
Maybe they went. Maybe weight of carried ammo was important too, especially in terms of war theater logistic.
5.45 is more accurate at greater distances, but lighter bullet has it's own problems (as well as 7.62x39). Not that I try to start flamewar 5.45/5.56/.223 VS .308/7.62 here.

SaturnRing wrote...

Well at least they get a good range out of that round.

It's questionable. Not sure for AR-15 platform chambered in Soviet rounds, but AK platform itself is not that accurate. Technically, I mean - large mass of moving parts, different axis for them, all that increase that "arm" - leverage of recoil direction and force. That's why I lol'ed at ME2/3 Avenger and Vindicator. Barrel axis height.

SaturnRing wrote...

You never seen a Famas: the black french bullpup gun with a built in  bipod...5.56; 960m/s.  Average accuracy. It's an ok AR.

I meant "with my own eyes". I have no idea on it's performance, since my French is "absent" (I can mimic Joe Dassin songs, but I don't know a word), and nobody I know ever fired or own FAMAS, so I can't ask anyone. OR they fired, but they fired only French weapons only, so there is no comparison. It's like asking ME2 soldier about SMGs.

SaturnRing wrote...

The Mattock looks like it.

Nah, Mattock is "bull-papish" enough, yes, but it's not like it. That gun from Lost planet looks like FAMAS. Mattock remind me more of FN Herstal products, P90 or F2000.

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...

I meant "with my own eyes". I have no idea on it's performance, since my French is "absent" (I can mimic Joe Dassin songs, but I don't know a word), and nobody I know ever fired or own FAMAS, so I can't ask anyone. OR they fired, but they fired only French weapons only, so there is no comparison. It's like asking ME2 soldier about SMGs.


 

I shot with the Famas. Can't believe you listen to Joe Dassin. Next thing i know you gonna tell me that you like Claude Francois songs too

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

I shot with the Famas. 

I envy you, I like bullpups. Well, some of them.

SaturnRing wrote...

Can't believe you listen to Joe Dassin.

What, why? He is good singer.

SaturnRing wrote...

Next thing i know you gonna tell me that you like Claude Francois songs too

Not my first choice, actually, prefer Charles Aznavour, but I guess I'll prefer Claude Francois over 90% of modern singers.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 22 avril 2012 - 07:47 .

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...


I envy you, I like bullpups. Well, some of them.


 

I agree they don't make them like  Aznavour anymore.
I understand the validity behind the bullpup concept (such as the Mattock or it's real life counterparts). Clearly a bullpup SR should be ideal; you pretty much get the best of both worlds. I was initially convinced that we would get such a weapon in ME3; specifically the SR on which the Mattock is based. It's on a cosmetic standpoint that i'm not a big fan though...
Quickly on the Famas, i thought it had an average accuracy; don't have a lot of experience with AK, but on fully auto the 74 probably feels more accurate(ak compensator) although you will experience far less recoil with the Famas ; semi auto it is very comfortable up to 300 m - without bipod or optics. Don't know how helpfull it is - was a long time ago. The first thing i noticed was its bullet vel. & penetration...  

Modifié par SaturnRing, 22 avril 2012 - 08:30 .

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

I agree they don't make them like  Aznavour anymore.

Neither like Vivaldi.

SaturnRing wrote...

I understand the validity behind the bullpup concept (such as the Mattock or it's real life counterparts). Clearly a bullpup SR should be ideal; you pretty much get the best of both worlds. I was initially convinced that we would get such a weapon in ME3; specifically the SR on which the Mattock is based. It's on a cosmetic standpoint that i'm not a big fan though...  

To be honest I was expecting something like "over-the-shoulder" concept, like RPG-7 or Barrett M82A2, for better balance and maneuverability.
Plus, in ME universe there is no problem of ejecting cases for bullpups.

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...

I agree they don't make them like  Aznavour anymore.

Neither like Vivaldi.

SaturnRing wrote...

I understand the validity behind the bullpup concept (such as the Mattock or it's real life counterparts). Clearly a bullpup SR should be ideal; you pretty much get the best of both worlds. I was initially convinced that we would get such a weapon in ME3; specifically the SR on which the Mattock is based. It's on a cosmetic standpoint that i'm not a big fan though...  

To be honest I was expecting something like "over-the-shoulder" concept, like RPG-7 or Barrett M82A2, for better balance and maneuverability.
Plus, in ME universe there is no problem of ejecting cases for bullpups.

Sorry i edited my previous post with more info on Famas...

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

Sorry i edited my previous post with more info on Famas...

I see. Thanks. It's useful.
I don't think that AK-74 compensator is compensating that much, really.

And bullet velocity is lot of lulz - what we have IRL for muzzle velocity, 950 m/s, average? Since all fights in ME happens in 100 metres...

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...


To be honest I was expecting something like "over-the-shoulder" concept, like RPG-7 or Barrett M82A2, for better balance and maneuverability.
Plus, in ME universe there is no problem of ejecting cases for bullpups.

I could see the BW stock reconfigured like that of an M82A2's; the ME2 & 3 ML-77 as well could be rebuilt to be wielded like an RPG.
The P 90 ejecting system is one of the best...

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

I could see the BW stock reconfigured like that of an M82A2's; the ME2 & 3 ML-77 as well could be rebuilt to be wielded like an RPG.

I already foresee artistic integrity, saving memory, difficulties with new animations incorporation.

SaturnRing wrote...

The P 90 ejecting system is one of the best...

Yeah. But IIRC only in ME2 Geth Primes, firing from Revenants, has constant flow of ejecting thermal clips.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 23 avril 2012 - 01:24 .

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...


I already foresee artistic integrity, saving memory, difficulties with new animations incorporation.

 

That's one area i really have trouble with. I would have loved to be able to switch hands - lots of advantages from a tactical standpoint; i'm a firm believer in using covers without necessarily sticking to them - and be able to face threats coming from the left without being exposed; guns not always at the ready unless engaged in actual combat or being able to change stances would have been nice too (specially for snipers, nothing beats prone more so wielding the W)...SMG should have more believable animations, except for the Shuriken maybe.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 23 avril 2012 - 02:52 .

[JaegerBane]

Rudy Lis wrote...
Yeah. But IIRC only in ME2 Geth Primes, firing from Revenants, has constant flow of ejecting thermal clips.

To be honest, I'd prefer it if things stayed away from this.

I can accept Thermal Clips as a plausible compromise from ME1's heat sink system as, while they impose an ammo limit, in the game universe they're universal, lightweight, cheap, small, require minimal moving parts in the gun and don't explode if subjected to enemy fire before being used. So on every level, while they're still ammo, they're an improvement in every single way to what we have today.

In the Geth Primes's case, all they've done is replaced conventional bullets with thermal clips as you need just as many, totally defeating the object of the whole ME -based firing system.

Don't even get me started on why on earth the Geth are using Revenants, ML-77s, Scimitars etc in the first place

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

That's one area i really have trouble with. I would have loved to be able to switch hands - lots of advantages from a tactical standpoint; i'm a firm believer in using covers without necessarily sticking to them - and be able to face threats coming from the left without being exposed; guns not always at the ready unless engaged in actual combat or being able to change stances would have been nice too (specially for snipers, nothing beats prone more so wielding the W)...SMG should have more believable animations, except for the Shuriken maybe.

Splinter Cell, it is console game, right? SC3 too? And using Unreal Engine as far as I understand. And Sam switching his hands freely.
What I really don't get is "firing-from-cover-aiming" and "firing-from-cover-without-aiming". In both cases Shepard pops-up (or lean-out) significantly, yet in second case - less than in first one. So... Why the difference? Why not use GTA (console game!) way - you can either pop-up carefully (like now "without aiming"), or blind-fire naturally, geting only your weapon out. Of course there should be penalty to accuracy (maybe, unless there is some space magic high-tech **** underslung weapon camera. And they or approximate analogues are, at least according to text. But there are many things, are, according to codex.

JaegerBane wrote...

To be honest, I'd prefer it if things stayed away from this.

No way. It's my favorite horse, I'll never leave it. If they precludes me from using what I want, I want to complain about that!

JaegerBane wrote...

I can accept Thermal Clips as a plausible compromise from ME1's heat sink system as, while they impose an ammo limit, in the game universe they're universal, lightweight, cheap, small, require minimal moving parts in the gun and don't explode if subjected to enemy fire before being used. So on every level, while they're still ammo, they're an improvement in every single way to what we have today.

I cannot. On paper - maybe they are plausible compromise. But here is my another "WTF moment. If they are universal, why their amount is tied to concrete type of weapon, not to your suit, as it should be logical? I already said that, but back in my "uniform" days, we had webbing/chest rig combo, with 7 mag-pouches total, each capable to hold 3 STANAG mags (for AR-15). So I could have 21 (yeah, I know, it's 11 kgs) of those and should all my weapons use them, it was on me - how to spread them. I can understand why now we have pouches marked for, say, bean-bags, slugs, doorbreach, buckshot. But - this is ammo-related, because those are different ammo.

JaegerBane wrote...

In the Geth Primes's case, all they've done is replaced conventional bullets with thermal clips as you need just as many, totally defeating the object of the whole ME -based firing system.

Really?
I thought were decided to replace built-in heat-sinks with ejectable thermal clips to improve "practical" rate of fire - removing pauses cause by cool-down periods of old weapon. Or you just meant Geth Primes eject clip after every shot like in case with real cartridge?

Anyway, existing game proves that whole concept failed.
First, idea and rate of clips depleting, especially for soldier. Second - their respawn for "hardpoints" (where they lie in world, not dropped by enemies; what's rate now - once in minute?). Third. Javik's soldering gun. Totally kills all clips idea, because weapon works perfectly without any clips. Innit?
Even if we resort to ME1 numbers, say 16-30 rounds till overheat, I think unlimited ammo concept should work. Just to dispose of those clips.

JaegerBane wrote...

Don't even get me started on why on earth the Geth are using Revenants, ML-77s, Scimitars etc in the first place

Well, start. I'm always interested in conversation with fellow gun-nuts.

Two notes:
- Scimitar works fine with IA, with AP I'd prefer another gun. Scimitar X works fine with AP too, but still, it's not my type of gun. But because of you I started to like it more.
- Indra is FTW. It's pure fun to use. Just replayed Menae with Indra V and IA. Poor brutes didn't even got close. I'm just sitting with big stupid grin and smiling like idiot. They killed Mattock with that accuracy, and I won't forgive them for that, but at least Indra is fun enough.

[JaegerBane]

Rudy Lis wrote...
I cannot. On paper - maybe they are plausible compromise. But here is my another "WTF moment. If they are universal, why their amount is tied to concrete type of weapon, not to your suit, as it should be logical? I already said that, but back in my "uniform" days, we had webbing/chest rig combo, with 7 mag-pouches total, each capable to hold 3 STANAG mags (for AR-15). So I could have 21 (yeah, I know, it's 11 kgs) of those and should all my weapons use them, it was on me - how to spread them. I can understand why now we have pouches marked for, say, bean-bags, slugs, doorbreach, buckshot. But - this is ammo-related, because those are different ammo.

The impression I've always gotten is that the majority of ME weapons have their thermal clip supply *inside* the weapon itself. Judging from the ME2 reload animations and the illustrations of the Thermal Clip upgrades, it looks like there's some sort of internal hopper, while Shepard simply ejects a clip.

The updated animations in ME3 look more like some weapons require more action to reload, but it still looks like everything is related to simply activating a thermal clip ejection. The fact that the weapon 'spare ammo' upgrades talk about adding 'extra sockets' imply this further.

The point is that I can understand the benefits of having all your spare ammo already carried in you gun and reloading is a question of hitting a stud or pulling a lever. But one of the cons of this would be that it would be less easy to re-distribute your 'ammo' - realistically, I can't see any soldier frantically trying to empty thermal clips from one weapon to fit into another.

Really?
I thought were decided to replace built-in heat-sinks with ejectable thermal clips to improve "practical" rate of fire - removing pauses cause by cool-down periods of old weapon. Or you just meant Geth Primes eject clip after every shot like in case with real cartridge?

I think the point was that the original ME heat sink system was designed to make ammo supplies a non-issue, while thermal clips were a compromise to increase practical rate of fire while still keeping the advantages that would come with not having to carry heavy loads of volatile ammunition.

The rate that those autocannons eject spent thermal clips means that you've lost any advantage of having guns that fire without any moving parts and can fire dozens of rounds on nothing more than a solid clip of inert material about the size of shotgun shell.

First, idea and rate of clips depleting, especially for soldier. Second - their respawn for "hardpoints" (where they lie in world, not dropped by enemies; what's rate now - once in minute?). Third. Javik's soldering gun. Totally kills all clips idea, because weapon works perfectly without any clips. Innit?
Even if we resort to ME1 numbers, say 16-30 rounds till overheat, I think unlimited ammo concept should work. Just to dispose of those clips.

There are some elements of gaming convention here, I was largely speaking from an in-universe standpoint. Ammo that is inert, light, small and simple while still supporting military-grade firepower would be major advance worthy of 2185.

Besides, Javik's Particle Rifle is, by 'current' Citadel standards, a piece of incredibly advanced technology that the current engineers frankly don't even understand how to do much more than replicate it. It's no surprise it outperforms anything non-reaper in origin.

Well, start. I'm always interested in conversation with fellow gun-nuts.

Two notes:
- Scimitar works fine with IA, with AP I'd prefer another gun. Scimitar X works fine with AP too, but still, it's not my type of gun. But because of you I started to like it more.
- Indra is FTW. It's pure fun to use. Just replayed Menae with Indra V and IA. Poor brutes didn't even got close. I'm just sitting with big stupid grin and smiling like idiot. They killed Mattock with that accuracy, and I won't forgive them for that, but at least Indra is fun enough.

I wouldn't exaclty call myself a gun-nut, more that I'm a great admirer of consistency, and the idea of the Geth, a 'species' more technologically advanced then any other galactic species barring the sole remaining Prothean, couldn't come up with anything better than stuff available on the galactic market just doesn't make any sense... hell, up until ME3 there *were* no Geth using the Geth Plasma Shottie...

To take your point, you're preaching to the converted. The Scimitar has been may fave shotty since ME2 largely because of its RoF. The Indra is... a better looking Avenger with a built-in scope, but no sniper rifle. For them, I'm still undecided between the Black Widow and N7 Valiant.

[Rudy Lis]

JaegerBane wrote...

The impression I've always gotten is that the majority of ME weapons have their thermal clip supply *inside* the weapon itself. Judging from the ME2 reload animations and the illustrations of the Thermal Clip upgrades, it looks like there's some sort of internal hopper, while Shepard simply ejects a clip.

My impression was based on text mostly, not animation. And I understood it as soldier ejects spent clip and then loads new or doing that simultaneously - ejecting old clip by inserting new one. Practically replacing ejector, extractor and magazine follower functions.
Nearest example from IRL is replacing shell type in shotgun's chamber. I haven't met that in hunt, so my experience is limited to sport shooting.
Plus, where could spare clips be stored, if all weapon folding into themselves? Clips folding too? Even those guns with big spare ammo supply? Looks a bit odd for me. Plus, somehow ejected clips looks about twice shorter than fresh ones. Or they like Herbalife cocktails - just spoonful of powder when dry, but should you pour water on them...  Or, dunno, just inserted into each other like pack of glasses, or cups, or plates.

I'd agree with your concept with shotguns, especially those with fast reload, but even Wraith with basic 2/10 should keep those 5+1 clips somewhere and I have strong "suspence of disbelief" on that.

"Speculations from everyone" indeed.

JaegerBane wrote...

The updated animations in ME3 look more like some weapons require more action to reload, but it still looks like everything is related to simply activating a thermal clip ejection. The fact that the weapon 'spare ammo' upgrades talk about adding 'extra sockets' imply this further.

I'd say they preferred not to risk to use longer animation cycle before, because it would be problematic for players, IMHO. Not that much of gameplay wise - collector's don't surf flank, just from "dynamics" perspective.
Now only few guns have long reloading cycle and it could be shortened, actually, by pressing Spacebar, as soon as ammo count shows that magazine is refreshed - you don't need to wait full animation cycle, you can shortcut it. Not working while you in cover (cos' it'll get you out of cover, obviously), but on the move - works fine. Actually that was how I found that feature - tried to roll from Brute, while reloading my GPS.

JaegerBane wrote...

The point is that I can understand the benefits of having all your spare ammo already carried in you gun and reloading is a question of hitting a stud or pulling a lever. But one of the cons of this would be that it would be less easy to re-distribute your 'ammo' - realistically, I can't see any soldier frantically trying to empty thermal clips from one weapon to fit into another.

I can imagine such procedure IRL, say your MG is jammed or destroyed, yet your DMR is without ammo. If they use same ammo, why not pry rounds from belt and give them to DMR?
Can't say for other armies, but we had enough "load/unload" drills.
Plus, like I say - where there are place for 10+clips in Valiant, and why upgrading your armor increase amound of ammo stored in gun?
So I'd say, "concept is broken".

JaegerBane wrote...

I think the point was that the original ME heat sink system was designed to make ammo supplies a non-issue, while thermal clips were a compromise to increase practical rate of fire while still keeping the advantages that would come with not having to carry heavy loads of volatile ammunition.

As I understand it, "ammo" - projectiles supply, is still "unlimited", since guns still use those "grains of sand (arrows, for Evi), chipped from solid block of metal". I don't get how "mass effect field" wraps those pellets and acelerate them to "hypervelocity" (50-100 m/s, ), plus those "barrel" things in ME3.
Plus, by my experience, most of the time I wasn't fire was not because I had to "cool my weapon" or "reload clip", but just because they depleted my guddamn shield. For that time I could wait and cool my gun.
Moreover, Warhammer 40K: Space Marine does it better, with it's plasma guns - they have unlimited ammo, overheats, but they cool down slowly by themselves, yet you can forcefully "flush" them to cool faster. Don't know, whether it my words I spread here on that, or someone from devs actually played WH40K:SM, but Particle rifle behaves almost like it, only firing via constant beam, not separate projectiles.

JaegerBane wrote...

The rate that those autocannons eject spent thermal clips means that you've lost any advantage of having guns that fire without any moving parts and can fire dozens of rounds on nothing more than a solid clip of inert material about the size of shotgun shell.

My two coppers - they done for speculations (dat English!) spectacularity.

JaegerBane wrote...

There are some elements of gaming convention here, I was largely speaking from an in-universe standpoint. Ammo that is inert, light, small and simple while still supporting military-grade firepower would be major advance worthy of 2185.

Well, in this case I meant "gameplay-wise", not "lore-wise". I won't mind idea of clips in general, but I'd prefer another implementation. For example, by default all guns are ME1 grade - with built-in heatsinks. Should you overheat your weapon, you can:
- Let it cool on it's own. Slowly, but cheap - you don't lose any resourse other than time.
- Let it forcefully vent (similar to Geth weapon animation or existing Particle Rifle) - you take, say, 3-5 seconds instead of 10-20, but still, don't waste any resources.
- Install emergency coolant clip, which cools weapon down immidiately. Clip could be either container with some coolant, that instantly flushes built-it heat-sinks, it could be some cassette that quickly absorbs heat, or it could replace "disposable" element of built-in heat-sinks. I'd say last - it's closer to existing situation.

JaegerBane wrote...

Besides, Javik's Particle Rifle is, by 'current' Citadel standards, a piece of incredibly advanced technology that the current engineers frankly don't even understand how to do much more than replicate it. It's no surprise it outperforms anything non-reaper in origin.

Dunno, I don't like it.  No, seriosly.

JaegerBane wrote...

I wouldn't exaclty call myself a gun-nut, more that I'm a great admirer of consistency, and the idea of the Geth, a 'species' more technologically advanced then any other galactic species barring the sole remaining Prothean, couldn't come up with anything better than stuff available on the galactic market just doesn't make any sense... hell, up until ME3 there *were* no Geth using the Geth Plasma Shottie...

Gun-nuts admire the consistency.
And Geth do not use GPS because it'll make playing against them harder than... Than anything, maybe.

JaegerBane wrote...

To take your point, you're preaching to the converted. The Scimitar has been may fave shotty since ME2 largely because of its RoF.

I was Eviscerator guy from Day 1. Until they released GPS.

JaegerBane wrote...

The Indra is... a better looking Avenger with a built-in scope, but no sniper rifle. For them, I'm still undecided between the Black Widow and N7 Valiant.

I have to play lvl 60 to make full judgment, but so far (I replaying first missions with different ammo) I like Indra. It really helped me to dispose all those brutes on Menae before they got close. I wasn't able to do that even with micro-control of Vega/Garrus and BW or Valiant before. I don't mean that brutes beat my Shepard, but I have to make him to perform "I'm a lumberjack" dance during those days. With Indra - they didn't even passed Blackhole location. So after first playthrough I was basically with that>  look.
Plus Indra is better than Avenger, at least in terms of accuracy.

[spiriticon]

N7 Valiant V + maxed cryo ammo got me through an Insanity run starting at Level 30.

[Brettic]

On Insanity I believe the Valiant to be the best, followed by the Black widow.

Black widow is best on any other difficulty level.

My reasoning is that you can get the valiants damage so close to the black widows. At that point on insanity because of shield gating, the Valiant will allow you to get off 2 headshots quicker, getting around shield gating and dropping things with shields much faster than a BW, because of the lower recoil and delay, and also because of the faster reload time.

It's slightly less effective against the big baddies than BW, but there aren't enough of them for that to matter at all, and the difference is still fairly small.

If there is no shield gating going on, I would say BW all the way because it would one shot anything that has shields, it's the shield gating that makes the valiant win out.

[Kronner]

Brettic wrote...

My reasoning is that you can get the valiants damage so close to the black widows.

And how do you do that?
BW X does 643 damage per shot, Valiant X is 396.

And this is base damage value. So all +damage upgrades benefit BW more.

That is not really close man. Though Valiant is much easier to use/has no recoil, so it will have some fans for sure.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 avril 2012 - 07:04 .

[Rudy Lis]

Kronner wrote...

And how do you do that?
BW X does 643 damage per shot, Valiant X is 396.

And this is base damage value. So all +damage upgrades benefit BW more.

I guess it's not about "damage per shot", it's more about "damage rate" and even more about "dispatch rate" a.k.a. "amount of shots required to dispatch someone and how fast you can make those shots". If you can kill target with one shot from both rifles, BW will be overkill. If you can kill target with 2 shots from BW or 3 shots from Valiant, and you can fire from Valiant faster - you will dispose of enemies faster. Add Valiant faster reload...
IMHO BW/W/J performs well as big-game rifles, when there are few of those big-games. When it comes to larger crowds of small-game or mid-game, their RoF make it worse for them and their damage becames excessive.
It is still possible to use any weapon, but it's just about performance fitting your playstyle and fun. Game should be entertaining, isn't it?

[SaturnRing]

JaegerBane wrote...


In the Geth Primes's case, all they've done is replaced conventional bullets with thermal clips as you need just as many, totally defeating the object of the whole ME -based firing system.

Don't even get me started on why on earth the Geth are using Revenants, ML-77s, Scimitars etc in the first place

I'm with you on this. Ease of use and non combustion is pretty much the only upgrade from regular ammo. I 'm not sure why you'd limit it to Geth Prime case tho... 

[SaturnRing]

Rudy Lis wrote...


I cannot. On paper - maybe they are plausible compromise. But here is my another "WTF moment. If they are universal, why their amount is tied to concrete type of weapon, not to your suit, as it should be logical? I already said that, but back in my "uniform" days, we had webbing/chest rig combo, with 7 mag-pouches total, each capable to hold 3 STANAG mags (for AR-15). So I could have 21 (yeah, I know, it's 11 kgs) of those and should all my weapons use them, it was on me - how to spread them. I can understand why now we have pouches marked for, say, bean-bags, slugs, doorbreach, buckshot. But - this is ammo-related, because those are different ammo.

It would have been a lot more convenient to have universal thermal clips. But it is plausible to have them being developed specifically for a single type of weapon - not consistent with what you visually aware of [ they all look the same], I give you that - I can hardly see the BW using the same type of thermclip as the Predator. To me the next step in staying consistent would have been to make them - t. clips - look different.

[Rudy Lis]

SaturnRing wrote...

It would have been a lot more convenient to have universal thermal clips. But it is plausible to have them being developed specifically for a single type of weapon - not consistent with what you visually aware of [ they all look the same], I give you that - I can hardly see the BW using the same type of thermclip as the Predator. To me the next step in staying consistent would have been to make them - t. clips - look different.

But they are universal, aren't they? Only difference, IIRC was about Shotguns in ME2 - one of shotguns upgrades doubled spare ammo count, by developing "smaller, more compact" clips.
That's what eating me. Well, one of many WTF moments, actually.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Kronner wrote...

Brettic wrote...

My reasoning is that you can get the valiants damage so close to the black widows.

And how do you do that?
BW X does 643 damage per shot, Valiant X is 396.

And this is base damage value. So all +damage upgrades benefit BW more.

That is not really close man. Though Valiant is much easier to use/has no recoil, so it will have some fans for sure.

What are the damage values at rank V on them? Do you happen to have a list handy for all of the firearms?