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DA 3 can be so epic...if only Bioware is willing to commit to a 60+ hour single player experience

Débuté par Leafs43 , avril 08 2012 05:37

126 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 03:15

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Miquel93 wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Miquel93 wrote...

I'm more concerned about depth than lenght. Fallout was a short RPG, and even so is more awesome than the 300 hours "doing nothing" of Fallout 3. Torment was also not very long. Alpha Protocol is at best 25 hours long...

Depht is what mathers. I don't want a long game like DAO if is full of fetch quests and looooooong (with no purpuse but to make the game longer through combat) dungeons.

DAIII will be awesome if it has deep choices and consequences, a mature, moral grey, non linear story line, and quests with variety of options and not just fight. The lenght doesn't bother me.


Good reply. Really can relate to your last paragraph up untill the last sentence.

But a game that takes a few days to finish isn't satisfying enough to my taste. I like small extra's in the form of meaningfull Image IPBsidequests to much and those usually make the game longer.

But, take for example Alpha Protocol (if you like it... if not this will not be a good example). It's short, but the amount of reactivity that the game has is outstanding. When you replay it, it feels like a total different experience.
I prefer that kind of approach, than fill the game with meaningless quests that adds nothing more than make the game "artificially" longer.

Of course, that's just my view of things.




Sorry do not know Alpha Protocol so cannot comment on that.

My point before was that if there is going to be more background in the form of gameplay (not cinematics or added combat or simple fedex stuff to fill the game) but additional things like the origins story in DAO which the player can choose to play or not if its not to their liking this would be great.

It would add to the depth of the game and give a lot more background on the characters and the world of Thedas.

edit my last sentence I want to rephrase: It would add to the depth of the game if the player could do things that are not quest related in regards to gaining knowledge about Thedas and characters that live there.

This would make the game longer but if people are not into that they do not have to do it right Image IPB.

Modifié par sjpelkessjpeler, 11 avril 2012 - 11:40 .

#27
Androme
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 04:09

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Orlegion Empire 


We're screwed, the Orlegions are coming

#28
Leafs43
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 05:52

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Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


 Say what you will about DA2, but DA2 set the stage for such a huge conflict the likes of which could be amazing.

How do you know it's going to be huge and not just happen at one location like the 5th blights?


Leafs43 wrote...

All Bioware has to do is abandon re-using maps, and really really focus on the factions that are going to war.

I'm talking templars, mages, quanari, Orlegion Empire, the Imperium, Alistar and Fereldan, Starkhaven, and Kirkwall.

 60+ hours of war scenes and intense action?  That's boring and blood thirsty..    


War has only one effect. What emotionally disturb people is the side effects of the war. Seeing love ones dying, Father carrying dead son. Mother weeping her toddler's cold body. Burnt houses.   Diary of young girl describing how her family dies one by one due to starvation and cold wheather, soldier writing poem, "I was killed at location X"  on the wall before he died etc.. This has more meaning than just kill and destroy because it remind us how vunerable we are as human.
 




Way to dumb down anything in this thread.


Best RPG story of all time took aproximately 80 hours to complete, and there were no repetitive themes.  And that game was called Xenogears and squaresoft had to cut out 1/4 of the game because of budget, not story..

Xenogears is your best RPG of all time? 16th best RPG of all time according to Famitsu. 32nd by IGN and Gamespot. Selling 1.19 million copies worldwide in 2003. 910,000 copies were sold in Japan.

It's a JRPG. enough said. 

So here's the thing. Game length has nothing to do with epicness. It depends on how well the story is written and played. Just look at ME 2, it's only has 26+ hours and it receives way more awards and sell a lot more than your precious  xenogears. 

Believe anything you want. But each to his own  I guess.

And here is the best RPG of all time according to Amazon.com, the world largest online retailers. Wonder why I used amazon.com as my source? 


Way to not read.

Xenogears is the best RPG story of all time.


It's story is the equivalent of the enitre Mass Effect series combined plus some in 1 game.

#29
Hexedcoder
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 06:57

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Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


 Say what you will about DA2, but DA2 set the stage for such a huge conflict the likes of which could be amazing.

How do you know it's going to be huge and not just happen at one location like the 5th blights?


Leafs43 wrote...

All Bioware has to do is abandon re-using maps, and really really focus on the factions that are going to war.

I'm talking templars, mages, quanari, Orlegion Empire, the Imperium, Alistar and Fereldan, Starkhaven, and Kirkwall.

 60+ hours of war scenes and intense action?  That's boring and blood thirsty..    


War has only one effect. What emotionally disturb people is the side effects of the war. Seeing love ones dying, Father carrying dead son. Mother weeping her toddler's cold body. Burnt houses.   Diary of young girl describing how her family dies one by one due to starvation and cold wheather, soldier writing poem, "I was killed at location X"  on the wall before he died etc.. This has more meaning than just kill and destroy because it remind us how vunerable we are as human.
 




Way to dumb down anything in this thread.


Best RPG story of all time took aproximately 80 hours to complete, and there were no repetitive themes.  And that game was called Xenogears and squaresoft had to cut out 1/4 of the game because of budget, not story..

Xenogears is your best RPG of all time? 16th best RPG of all time according to Famitsu. 32nd by IGN and Gamespot. Selling 1.19 million copies worldwide in 2003. 910,000 copies were sold in Japan.

It's a JRPG. enough said. 

So here's the thing. Game length has nothing to do with epicness. It depends on how well the story is written and played. Just look at ME 2, it's only has 26+ hours and it receives way more awards and sell a lot more than your precious  xenogears. 

Believe anything you want. But each to his own  I guess.

And here is the best RPG of all time according to Amazon.com, the world largest online retailers. Wonder why I used amazon.com as my source? 


That's....actually a good list.  I started rolling my eyes when I saw TES V at the top...then I scrolled down and saw Chrono Trigger, BG, Archanum, Vagrent Story, Wizardry, and Ultima, among others, a lot of stuff way better than ridalin inducing, poorly translated, watch as the budget is cut as you play-Xenogears.

Modifié par Hexedcoder, 08 avril 2012 - 06:59 .

#30
Maria Caliban
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 07:44

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Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

And here is the best RPG of all time according to Amazon.com, the world largest online retailers. Wonder why I used amazon.com as my source? 


That's a user list on Amazon.com. The author is Christopher D. Johnson "philosopher + sci-fi aficionado."

#31
Atakuma
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 09:15

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A 60+ hour campaign would mean nothing but lot's of filler.

#32
Realmzmaster
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 09:44

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I do not want DA3 to be long for the sake of being long. If the main campaign is that long because it tells a good story that is fine. I can do without filler or filler combat for the sake of making the game longer. I would like to see even the secondary and side quests tie in (even if only tangentially) to the main story.

#33
VampOrchid
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 09:48

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I don't need the game to be long to be good. Just to be good.

#34
Costin_Razvan
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 09:59

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Dragon Age 2 could be 60 hours long for some people ( playing on Nightmare ), quantity doesn't make quality.

#35
Maria Caliban
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 10:01

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Atakuma wrote...

A 60+ hour campaign would mean nothing but lot's of filler.

You didn't find the Deep Roads a deep RPG experience?

#36
DRTJR
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 10:16

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What Bioware needs to do is take a ton of pages from Obsidian's Fallout: New Vegas, With multiple smaller factions siding with or against one of the two larger factions. Also Danny Trejo as a VA would be awesome.

#37
Atakuma
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 10:20

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

A 60+ hour campaign would mean nothing but lot's of filler.

You didn't find the Deep Roads a deep RPG experience?

Walking long distances and killing hundreds of mooks along the way is not a deep rpg experience for me. if I wanted that I'd play diablo.

#38
Davillo
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 10:29

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I would be happy with 60hours, I always drag a game out anyway, but yea DA:2 was short as hell and that bugged the crap out of me.

#39
BillsVengenace
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 10:37

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Atakuma wrote...

A 60+ hour campaign would mean nothing but lot's of filler.


DA2 campaign took me 24 hrs and it had a hell of a lot more filler than DA:O.

Length is not analogous to filler. 



I could live with a 24 hour campaign if it was short of filler and highly divergent gameplay and story like Alpha Protocol, which makes up for its (relatively) short length by repay value.  

For such a linear game and non-divergent game like DA2 there's no excuse for merely 24 hours of gameplay and it is unacceptable that a large amount (if not most) of that time is trash mobs and filler FedEx quests. 

#40
Foryou
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 12:12

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Easier said then done. I've played RPG's that are long, mostly cause grinding and long cutscenes. Length of game doesn't equal the amount of fun

Modifié par Foryou, 09 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

#41
Maria Caliban
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 12:16

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Atakuma wrote...

Walking long distances and killing hundreds of mooks along the way is not a deep rpg experience for me. if I wanted that I'd play diablo.

I like Diablo and am looking forward to the next game, but I must agree that it's not what I look for in a BioWare game.

#42
Mclouvins
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 12:44

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DRTJR wrote...

What Bioware needs to do is take a ton of pages from Obsidian's Fallout: New Vegas, With multiple smaller factions siding with or against one of the two larger factions. Also Danny Trejo as a VA would be awesome.


NV really isn't a good measurement for anything. Obsidian was able to make an open-world game with some sort of quasi-narrative stuff in large part because of how many things they didn't have to do with regards to development, most of the game was ripped out of fallout 3.

What they should do is stick to their strengths making a game that offers good character and good narrative experience with non-plot critical content that doesn't rise to the point of reallly harming the narrative pacing just for the sake of forcing in more content of low quality.

#43
PsychoBlonde
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 04:13

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harkness72 wrote...

Chiramu wrote...

They could at least work the writing of DA3 into a form of a Shakespearean Tragedy; with the five acts, Act 3 hitting the climax and the rest of the story falling into place as it rushes towards the end of the game.

I would be happy with some form like that :). A highly successful format of writing.

I actually thought of Final Fantasy 6 when it hits the climax of the world reshaping and you losing your whole party. The way FF6 was written was seriously epic.


I sort of agree with you, but they need to stay away from acts and framed narratives. And God help us if they look to FF for any kind of inspiration :?


I think what needs to be done is more along these lines:

The first half of the game should (at least potentially) contain 95% of the "side quests".

As the game progresses, the diversions should be fewer and the main-plot stuff get longer, more complex, and more involved.  The only side quests should not feel like "sides" at all but be important, if optional.

The further you are along, the closer everything should be to the main thread.

#44
Indoctrination
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 07:39

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BioWare isn't even committed to promising that they can make choices matter in their 30 hours games. They're only willing to commit to thinking about it. Making the game twice as long would only resort in more penny pinching and a crappier game overall, IMO.

#45
LegendaryBlade
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 08:04

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Skelter192 wrote...

All Bioware has to do is a Dragon Age 3 kickstarter and NOT have romances. Romances are terrible and don't add anything imo.


NO.

NO, BAD

Kickstarter helps small devs get off the ground, people who don't have huge publishers backing them. It breaths the life of possibility in to games like Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun. Once big developers start abusing it it just becomes a way for them to continue to make AAA titles with no expense and more income. Which they will continue to try to maximize by focusing on a 'larger audience'. You'll be throwing money at people who don't need it and it wont change their practices at all.

#46
Askia32
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 09:11

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Quality over quantity.

#47
MasterLu
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 09:47

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BillsVengenace wrote...
DA2 campaign took me 24 hrs and it had a hell of a lot more filler than DA:O. 


My first playthrough was 48h, and I didn't find the two sidequest nasties in that run. The playtime obviously varies greatly, so extrapolating only from one's personal experience is not very productive.

Anyway, as for the original question, I'm also in the 'don't care for length as long as it's fulfilling' camp.

#48
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 02:04

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Leafs43 wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


 Say what you will about DA2, but DA2 set the stage for such a huge conflict the likes of which could be amazing.

How do you know it's going to be huge and not just happen at one location like the 5th blights?


Leafs43 wrote...

All Bioware has to do is abandon re-using maps, and really really focus on the factions that are going to war.

I'm talking templars, mages, quanari, Orlegion Empire, the Imperium, Alistar and Fereldan, Starkhaven, and Kirkwall.

 60+ hours of war scenes and intense action?  That's boring and blood thirsty..    


War has only one effect. What emotionally disturb people is the side effects of the war. Seeing love ones dying, Father carrying dead son. Mother weeping her toddler's cold body. Burnt houses.   Diary of young girl describing how her family dies one by one due to starvation and cold wheather, soldier writing poem, "I was killed at location X"  on the wall before he died etc.. This has more meaning than just kill and destroy because it remind us how vunerable we are as human.
 




Way to dumb down anything in this thread.


Best RPG story of all time took aproximately 80 hours to complete, and there were no repetitive themes.  And that game was called Xenogears and squaresoft had to cut out 1/4 of the game because of budget, not story..

Xenogears is your best RPG of all time? 16th best RPG of all time according to Famitsu. 32nd by IGN and Gamespot. Selling 1.19 million copies worldwide in 2003. 910,000 copies were sold in Japan.

It's a JRPG. enough said. 

So here's the thing. Game length has nothing to do with epicness. It depends on how well the story is written and played. Just look at ME 2, it's only has 26+ hours and it receives way more awards and sell a lot more than your precious  xenogears. 

Believe anything you want. But each to his own  I guess.

And here is the best RPG of all time according to Amazon.com, the world largest online retailers. Wonder why I used amazon.com as my source? 


Way to not read.

Xenogears is the best RPG story of all time.


It's story is the equivalent of the enitre Mass Effect series combined plus some in 1 game.



What can change the nature of a man?

#49
Servo to the bitter end
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 02:09

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Holy crap, Xenogears.

I've been off JRPGs for a pretty long time now, but goddamit if Xenogears isn't one of the best. Great story, great combat, great characters, great aesthetic. It's true that you can watch the budget being cut as you play. I remember the second disk being roughly twenty hours of text cutscene/exposition with like 3 dungeons mixed in.

#50
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 02:57

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I don't think it matters how long the game is as long as most scenes, quests and areas are relevent to the over-all plot and not just repetitive, annoying filler to make it seem longer than it was.
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