126 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

I'd rather play a shorter game with amazing content than a really long game with boring filler. I like replayability, so a game in which people react differently to you depending on your gender/class/race/social standing is perfect for me, especially if you can only access certain quests/missions that are personal to said character types. Anything that encourages the players incentive to try different ways of playing the game is a good thing. I found DA:O to be particularly good at that, I've lost track of the times I've played it but I still keep finding new stuff/different dialogue etc.

Perhaps in DA3 having multiple ways of completing a quest/goal and having the outcome of that change the world around you would be interesting; a basic example of this would be in Fable 2 where choosing to help either the thug or a guard early in the game completely changed the look of the city, transforming it into crime central or a wealthy part of Albion... Hm, maybe that's not the best example I could have used, but you get the idea lol.

In regards to Allan's comment, I think longer sequences are fine so long as there's a variation of things to do within that area, it also helps if the area has an attractive setting that changes the further you explore rather than it being one long tunnel of brown (to use the Deep Roads as an example.) MotA had a fairly long sequence but it was broken up by vastly different areas, the use of puzzles and different tactics like stealth to achieve the end goal, which made it feel more like a treat than a chore.

Modifié par LolaLei, 12 avril 2012 - 01:56 .

[Sejborg]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To take something else away from this, would the longer sequences be more palatable if there had been a way to escape out of them?

I agree that the Deep Roads carried on longer than I would have liked.  I didn't mind The Fade as much due to the puzzle nature, but I know a lot of people that don't care for it.  As far as I know though, those are plot paths that you must finish before returning to the open world (been a while since I played others and I'm not a content tester

I would have liked the deep roads to be longer, if it showed more in the story and gameplay, that it was long. Like if you went out with a large group, and slowly people around you would start to crumple. Some mounts you brought along might die of exhaustion. Some companions could panic and abandon you, trying to find a way back or out of the tunnels. One person could loose his mind and go crazy. Some could die of the darkspawn plague. A couple could challenge your leadership. Everyone would become dirty with blood and filth on their clothes and on their faces and in the hair. At some point you would experience food and water shortage. Maybe your character would start to walk like she was exhausted/injured. Your health and stamina bar would get a 10% penalty.

And then, finally, you see a sunbeam at the end of a tunnel. 

[Malsumis]

Quality>quantity.

When you get to 60hours you will always have filler a lot of filler content. Being long for the sake of it has no interest to me.

[LolaLei]

Sejborg wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To take something else away from this, would the longer sequences be more palatable if there had been a way to escape out of them?

I agree that the Deep Roads carried on longer than I would have liked.  I didn't mind The Fade as much due to the puzzle nature, but I know a lot of people that don't care for it.  As far as I know though, those are plot paths that you must finish before returning to the open world (been a while since I played others and I'm not a content tester

I would have liked the deep roads to be longer, if it showed more in the story and gameplay, that it was long. Like if you went out with a large group, and slowly people around you would start to crumple. Some mounts you brought along might die of exhaustion. Some companions could panic and abandon you, trying to find a way back or out of the tunnels. One person could loose his mind and go crazy. Some could die of the darkspawn plague. A couple could challenge your leadership. Everyone would become dirty with blood and filth on their clothes and on their faces and in the hair. At some point you would experience food and water shortage. Maybe your character would start to walk like she was exhausted/injured. Your health and stamina bar would get a 10% penalty.

And then, finally, you see a sunbeam at the end of a tunnel. 

I love that idea!

[Takamori The Templar]

Malsumis wrote...

Quality>quantity.

When you get to 60hours you will always have filler a lot of filler content. Being long for the sake of it has no interest to me.

The thing is, the content in DA:O wasn't filler at all, had a better perfomance then DA2...That was ... less then the half of the content.
But agreed Quality over flood quantity.

[AkiKishi]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

Malsumis wrote...

Quality>quantity.

When you get to 60hours you will always have filler a lot of filler content. Being long for the sake of it has no interest to me.

The thing is, the content in DA:O wasn't filler at all, had a better perfomance then DA2...That was ... less then the half of the content.
But agreed Quality over flood quantity.

As long as it's quality filler who cares? 

[Indoctrination]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To take something else away from this, would the longer sequences be more palatable if there had been a way to escape out of them?

There's definitely a potential balance. Like what if the required portion of the Deep Roads was an hour shorter, and have an hour worth of side stages in the area where you can do optional treasure hunting and side quests?

[FieryDove]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To take something else away from this, would the longer sequences be more palatable if there had been a way to escape out of them?

I agree that the Deep Roads carried on longer than I would have liked.  I didn't mind The Fade as much due to the puzzle nature, but I know a lot of people that don't care for it.  As far as I know though, those are plot paths that you must finish before returning to the open world (been a while since I played others and I'm not a content tester

I loved the deep roads. We could leave after doing a thaig or even half a thaig if we wanted and go back to camp to unload/sell whatever. (I don't think many people knew this or even tried)

I was one who disliked the fade so much if a mod hadn't come out...well it was that bad for me. 1. Couldn't leave. 2. No party with you. (Not good for off/weird builds) 3. Too much back tracking. Some is fine - that much is a no-no I would think in level design.

I enjoyed awakenings fade very much. Fo whatever its worth.

As far as topic of OP. Longer than DA2 would be nice. It just felt like...it was missing an entire act to me. Act 3 should have been 4 maybe? I don't know.

[CENIC]

LolaLei wrote...

I'd rather play a shorter game with amazing content than a really long game with boring filler. I like replayability, so a game in which people react differently to you depending on your gender/class/race/social standing is perfect for me, especially if you can only access certain quests/missions that are personal to said character types.

This is how I feel too.

[Case]

I think Origins was a near perfect game in terms of everything, including length. DA2 felt way too short for me, not necessarily because of how many hours it took but because of 'real' content. Going back to the same area over and over to fetch something or fight never ending spawns isn't real content for me. I didn't feel there was enough to do, was extremely repetitive, felt constricted on where I could go and what I could do so that really effected my immersion in it. I think DA:O worked for me so well was if I got stuck on an area or bored I could go to another part of the world. If the deep roads proved too tough, I could pack up and move over to the dalish forest and see what was going on over there. I hated being stuck in kirkwall the whole time in DA:2 but I do appreciate what they were trying to do by seeing the city 'age' over time. But it failed to make the story more epic and engaging for me, so I guess that's why I disliked it. DA:O world felt much more real to me precisely because it was much more open and I felt a much closer link to my created character because of the origin stories even if the game didn't span decades.
*sorry for rambling*
Back on topic...I personally loved the deep roads and it felt very epic to me, lots of cool side quests to do, and I didn't mind it being pretty linear as it gave a sense of progressing towards something and being further in the caverns. I do think some players might want to be able to skip something like that, or do a lite version but avid RPGs shouldn't have to suffer because it might not appeal to mass consumers, but it is an RPG afterall.

[Eudaemonium]

DA2 actually took me 96 hours the first time I played it. I have absolutely no idea how, even remotely. I think there was some bug that didn't reset the time if you loaded upon dying, and I was playing on Nightmare so I died a lot.

I still have nightmares over that Ancient Rock Wraith.

[Mike_Neel]

I'd rather see a main story line be around the 30-40 mark but give me the ability to replay it all over again and experience it entirely differently based on not only the choices I made in this game but previous imports as well.

Perhaps more choice than just what line and tones my PC uses. Maybe. Hopefully.

[seraphymon]

DAO length i think is Ideal, but again as long as the story is good, and none of the split into 3 different stories in one game as in DA2.

As for the Deeproads well imo i thought DAo did it better. I know some dont like the length and tedious of it. To me i dont mind it, only after subsequent playthroughs does it become a little bit much but still. And while it may not look quite as described in the novels, (cept for certain parts, like the broodmothers room.) i think it looked a hell of alot better than DA2. DA2 was too bright and well put together for my taste, not too mention short, was just cutscene after cutscene.

[LegendaryBlade]

So you want Bioware to make a long, in depth roleplay game? Who do you think they are, Old Bioware?

In all seriousness I agree, Bioware needs to step it up and make DA3 at least as long as DA:O was

[wowpwnslol]

I love it how people are pretty much resigned to the fact that they're never getting a quality, long, epic RPG from Bioware. It's either "60 hours worth of crap" or "20 hour amazing game".

Why can't it be both long and great?

[ashwind]

Making the game long can be easily accomplished by adding huge huge dungeons like... DAO Deep Roads *cringe*

Length to me is not that big a problem but how the content is presented is more important. For example: Hawke losing; or come close to losing a sister/brother scene especially in the Deep Road was extremely weak in DA2. It could have been one of the most memorable moments but they fail to present it well.

I think more importantly, Bioware needs to decide. If they want an ARPG - make it ARPG all the way and not something half-cooked like DA2. If they want a traditional RPG, make it traditional all the way and not something half-cooked.

Bioware cannot please everyone, they have to choose. If they try to please everyone, they end up losing everyone.

That is the biggest problem with Bioware productions nowadays imo.

[Meris]

LolaLei wrote...

I'd rather play a shorter game with amazing content than a really long game with boring filler.

In my time, RPGs were both very long and had amazing content. But alas, the need to innovate cinematically have, according to numerous devs and BioWare itself, put a big pressure on content creation.

Modifié par Meris, 13 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[Kileyan]

I'll never understand the complaints about the Deep Roads length. It is supposed to be a long journey, ya know deep into a roadway connecting outposts and kingdoms. It felt right to me.

As opposed to DA2, where the Deep Roads long journey into a long forgotten thaig buried so far beneath the surface its likes had never been seen. The journey equalled like 2 cutscenes and a couple L shaped corridors. That was wrong.

I agree with the above poster, its seems that more or more, all the dev time is being spent all full voice and cinematics with the actual adventure and exploration of the game being considered a tertiary part of the game.

There was a time that even very long dungeon adventures didn't seem like chores, tons of lore, discovery, treasure and varied npcs to fight were on each map. Now it is generic magic items and 4 or 5 baddy models per game, with spiders and dogs thrown in.

What we gained with full 3d, improved animation, voice and cutscenes, cost quite a bit.

[Dejajeva]

I don't mind filler quests, actually. I play two types of games. My first play-through which is normally quite fast and story related, and my completion play-through which I literally search every damn corner of the maps,and it's during this pt where I accomplish all of the fetch quests and usually I don't even notice I've done them.

But it's very different from Origins. That feels like it had twice as much content. I mean, it probably did, for all I love DA2 I could easily spend several more hours there if they let me.

[Wonderllama4]

60?! 60 is NOTHING. That's Mass Effect length. Dragon Age games should have 100 hours of content like Origins

[Maria Caliban]

Kileyan wrote...

I'll never understand the complaints about the Deep Roads length.

When Oghren told me that the princess was in a different castle, I about punched my screen.

The Spider Queen fight was the hardest in the Deep Roads and the rewards was nothing but a slap in the face. I resented BioWare every minute spent in the Deep Road after that with a brief interlude for Hespeth's rhyme.

[Takamori The Templar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

I'll never understand the complaints about the Deep Roads length.

When Oghren told me that the princess was in a different castle, I about punched my screen.

The Spider Queen fight was the hardest in the Deep Roads and the rewards was nothing but a slap in the face. I resented BioWare every minute spent in the Deep Road after that with a brief interlude for Hespeth's rhyme.

Actually Deep Roads gave you tons and tons of sovereigns.
Didn't give me the OMFG sword of rape, but lorewise, exploration and combat wise was satisfying though like Dave of Canada said in the exploration topic a townportal would be awesome for restocks and avoid getting your bag overloaded with loot.

[astreqwerty]

da2 was a 60+ experiance for me but for all the wrong reasons(yeah one map for every hub isnt very artsy indeed)

[sickpixie]

Meris wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I'd rather play a shorter game with amazing content than a really long game with boring filler.

In my time, RPGs were both very long and had amazing content. But alas, the need to innovate cinematically have, according to numerous devs and BioWare itself, put a big pressure on content creation.

Many older RPGs had a lot of filler combat too, but it was filler with a purpose: they were meant to drain your resources (health, mana/spells per day, items, etc.) The difficulty of a significant encounter would be dependent on how well you managed those resources in all the previous, easier fights. However, in the Dragon Age series your health and mana/stamina fill back up at the end of each combat session and items are abundant. So the purpose of filler combat... is to just take up your time and make you repeat the same actions over and over again.