143 réponses à ce sujet

[Irx]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I paid other people to craft things based on the materials Hawke gathered. It's still a crafting system.

Its a shop, has nothing to do with crafting.

Modifié par Irxy, 09 avril 2012 - 06:43 .

[Maria Caliban]

So you're saying that as long as the game told you that Hawke made them instead of someone else, you'd be fine with the system?

In that case, I'm fine with that change.

[Zubie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

my Warden never personally made anything either.

Well if the Warden learns a crafting a skill and crafts an item using that skill then it is the Warden personally crafting it. Unless you're talking about another character having a skill and having them craft it or having Wade craft an item for you.

I always had my Wardens craft poisons and bombs and party members make potions and stuff. I mean, DAO's crafting system wasn't really great it's true (runes mostly) but it's a hell of a lot better than simply scrapping the entire thing and just make people buy the items at a store. Seriously. I'd like a more engaging system. The Witcher games come to mind here.

Modifié par easygame88, 09 avril 2012 - 07:12 .

[Maria Caliban]

My Warden never learned a crafting skill though. She always had someone else do it. In DA:O that other person did it for free after the Warden provided them with ingredients. In DA II, that other person does it for a small charge after Hawke provides them with a source of ingredients.

Again, it seems as though the issue isn't the crafting system itself, but the game telling you someone else is making it and not the PC.

If instead of an ordering table, there had been an alchemy table, and the cost was for material goods used when Hawke made a potion herself, would you have liked the crafting system?

[Zubie]

I like gathering materials and reagents and using them to craft items. Not just resource nodes like in DA2 though. I mean herbs, ore, bits and pieces of slain monsters. I really loved making potions in the Witcher games. Having to read journal entries about a monster which would enable you to gather a specific part from it and then use it as an ingredient in a potion. The game would often require the use of specific potions sometimes, to see in the dark for example.

Though potion making is a big part of the gameplay in the Witcher games so I don't expect most games to into it in such detail. But the system was engaging and interesting, though a lot of people might disagree with me there.

[Maria Caliban]

Here's the thing. I like one system and you like another, and we seem to dislike one another's preferred system.

But I'm not going to suggest that the crafting system you like isn't really a crafting system.

[wowpwnslol]

Crafting sucked in both games tbh. Honestly, I'd rather they either implemented a proper crafting system or not include one at all. If they HAVE to include one, I'd prefer they followed DA2 formula because when you have two crappy systems, might as well pick the less frustrating and tedious one.

BG2 style "crafting" wouldn't be too bad either; a few specialized NPCs who can make an item out of several components that you gather (ie drago hide >>> dragon armor) OR upgrade an existing item to keep it relevant (adding an extra head to a flail to make it do more damage etc)

[Irx]

Maria Caliban wrote...

But I'm not going to suggest that the crafting system you like isn't really a crafting system.

Because in that case you'd look stupid and trying to redefine common concepts.

[Zubie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Here's the thing. I like one system and you like another, and we seem to dislike one another's preferred system.

But I'm not going to suggest that the crafting system you like isn't really a crafting system.

Fair enough. In the end it doesn't really make or break the game for me.

[Anomaly-]

[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...

Dragon Age II's crafting system was damn near perfect. Don't touch it. [/quote]

It was damn near non-existant.
[quote]Cultist wrote...
1.
Almost everyone i know are sick of carrying 99 elfroots 99 vials and 99 concentrators. Gathering this garbage everywhere is anooying to no end.[/quote]

I rather like keeping my eye open for things that may be useful, then planning what to keep and make use of for where I'm going next.

[quote]
2. You get a lot of potions just lying everywhere, and crafted ones are too expensive to be effective.[/quote]

Simple balance issue. Once you achieve a high skill, you should be making potions more powerful than those readily available.

[quote]
3. As for awakening - to make a potion, you have to buy required ingridients, exit location and choose a party member with herbalism skill, craft potions, go back and choose party member with which you will go adventuring.[/quote]

As I said, as soon as I modded potion stats to take the user's skill/attribute levels into account, I found a nice balance between a system I could both find believable, and well balanced.

[quote]
4. Most potions are not worth it.[/quote]

Again, balance issue.

[quote]
I suppose the best solution is to follow Diablo III experience and implement NPC at your camp who can brew potions and potions for you. You can upgrade him via various quests, bring him new recipes etc. This will solve the problem of a "mule" party member, with all the crafting skills.[/quote]

As would having the skill level affect the effectiveness of the potion at the time of use. I don't want someone doing it for me. I want to make meaningful choices and sacrifices in terms of character build, and have the option of a gameplay experience that differs from the norm.

[quote]
The problem of 99 elfroots. I don't know how to solve it but can brainstorm some ideas, such as
[/quote]

What problem? The only problem I can think of is that some shops carry an infinite supply. The obvious solution is to change that. I think some shops should be able to specialize in certain ingredients, but more like 15 at a time, and you have to return after some time for them to replenish stock.

[quote]
- Reduce their weight and implement separate inventory slot, like a "Ingridient bag" for them.[/quote]

Dragon Age inventory is based on space, not weight. There is no difference between 1 elfroot and 99 of them. Honestly, I can maintain way more crafting related items in my inventory in Skyrim and TW2 than I had to in DA:O without any problem.

[quote]
- Reduce number of ingridients on the maps and make them abdurant - i.e. get N elfroots from one bush. this will eliminate annoying "corner-searching".[/quote]

Again, the "99 elfroot problem" exists because of shops, not overabundant natural occurences. Of course, having skill upgrades to be able to harvest more out of a single plant is something I would agree with. I like "corner-searching".

[quote]
The mage can use "quick growth magic" if you bring himher seeds. Basically, like DA2 but not as dumb. You can "upgrade" NPC and get more ingridients for the same price.[/quote]

I'd rather be able to plant a garden of chosen ingredients somewhere, but not have it contribute so much as to make actively searching for more ingredients unnecessarry.

[quote]
Make Alchemy(or potion making) skill matter.
As you said, make potions have: quicker cooldown, stronger effects, additional effects depending of skill level. Make this skill affect gameplay and quests, i.e. PC can recognize poison of some victim if his Alchemy skill is high enough. Or can heal someone, like with dwarven cure in DAO.[/quote]

Yes, this is mostly what I miss from DA:O.

[quote]
Make potion effects significant
+3 poison damage is nice, but not worth it, when you have to waste 5 minutes to gather ingridients and brew it. Make potion effects important. +20% damage, +30% resistance, +armor, immunity to knockbackstun and other. they will be expensive, but make potions worth their price.
[/quote]

There are a number of ways to achieve this. When modding DA:O, I had poison damage scale to the user's skill level, as well as benefit from critical hits/backstabs, for example.

[quote]Wulfram wrote...

Maker, no! Crafting is a horrible addition to story based CRPGs.[/quote]

You see a story based RPG, I see a tactical, party-based RPG where it definitely does belong. Seriously, what does the significance of the story have to do with it? Unless that story suggests that crafting in this universe is impossible, I guess...

[quote]andraip wrote...

NO. DAO crafting was annoying, I just don't like walking around the world map to buy tons of ingredients, [/quote]

Then don't invest in it. It's obviously not a play style you enjoy.

[quote]
then get my potionier into the party, and then click hundreds of times on create potion.[/quote]

I've already proposed solutions to that.

[quote]
Not saying that the DA2 approach was perfect or 100% logical but it was still better.[/quote]

How was it better? How was it... anything? It required no skill investment on your part, and as such, did nothing to define your character and what he/she is good at. Major minus, in my books. Besides that, it scrapped a gameplay style I and others like me have always enjoyed.

Here's what I don't understand. What about that system really appealed to you? It is mechanically almost identical to simply buying a potion from a shop, with the added arbitrary requirement that you found at least 1 plant, sometime, somewhere. What do you actually gain from that? Would you truly miss that if it was gone? It could easily be replaced by several other gameplay "features". For example, you could find various metal materials around the world, bring them back to town with you and pay an armorer to use it to sharpen your weapons or temper your armor. Exact same mechanic, but at least it makes a little more sense. If you're so attached to that, you can still have it.

[quote]
Your idea of having the skill affect the usefullness of a potion is NOT logical. [/quote]

Yes, it is.

[quote]
You just have to drink the potion or to put the poison on your weapon, no skill required. [/quote]

By that logic, you just have to pick up the sword and swing it around, no skill required. Why have talent trees at all then?

You just have to fill the syringe and inject it into a vein, simple. But I bet you'd rather a doctor or lab technician did it, wouldn't you?

[quote]
Potions were originally intended to used by other persons the the potionier, you know...[/quote]

Yes, I do know, and I never suggested otherwise. However, the character(s) more skilled in their use would be more skilled in their use.

[quote]Gibb_Shepard wrote...
If anything, i'd personally prefer TW2's style of crafting. You have to continuously find relevant material for your potions and weapons.
[/quote]

The things I loved about TW2's crafting were that almost everything in the game could be crafted, and there was a whole skill tree dedicated to the potion/device part of it. The only things I disliked were the pacing and I felt the skill tree could have been done better. I often found that by the time I gathered all the ingredients to craft something I wanted, I already found something better. Other than that, it was fantastic.

[quote]Filament wrote...
I support the functionality of DA2's system compared to DAO's needless bloat, which is not, in my eyes, a kind of
"complexity" that has any value. It's not rocket science, it's just tedious-- ok, I need to buy 32 rune stones to make 32 least runes, then convert those to 16 lesser runes, then convert those to 8 greater runes, 4 master runes, 2 grandmaster runes, and finally a paragon rune-- or, I need to go to that guy who didn't get mugged in Orzammar to buy 5 distilling agents, then to the Tranquil in Denerim for concentrator agents, then the Dalish camp for elfroots, etc. But DA2's could be presented better, in a way that feels like the player has more "RP" customization options.
[/quote]

Rune crafting is a horrible example., that's not so much the complexity I'm after. Bringing back skill investment is key, but I still want to hunt down my own ingredients, discover my own recipes and give serious thought to what I bring with me.

[quote]Atakuma wrote...

I'd prefer they keep it the way DA2 did it, because running around collecting ingredients is nothing but tedious for me.[/quote]

Then don't do it.

Again, I just don't see what could possibly appeal to you about DA2's system in particular. The only difference from simply buying the potions from shops is an arbitrary requirement that you found some hand-wavy infinitely respawning plant somewhere, at some point. It doesn't provide a gameplay experience or character role anywhere outside the norm.

[quote]Realmzmaster wrote...
Doesn't it make more sense to have a portable work bench or lab in camp where potions or traps can be made. Where is the PC making potions or traps in camp?

There should also be a chance of failure if the skill is not high enough. Ordering the potion would ensure no failure possible. The PC making it should have a risk of failure same with traps. There should be a possibility that the potion would fail, the poison would poison the character or the trap injures the character.[/quote]

Agreed with all of that.

[quote]Davillo wrote...

Yea Origins crafting was fine but it was getting tedious, and if they bring traps back make them useful, there was no need to use traps whatsoever even on highest difficulty. [/quote]

The reason you use something should never be because you have to, but because that style of gameplay appeals to you.

[quote]
The amount of inventory space the ingredients to make potions took was ridiculous same for traps.[/quote]

It was a fraction of the space required in games like Skyrim or TW2, and people who don't enjoy that simply don't do it. I don't hear too many people complain about it.

[quote]
This is one of your biggest dissapointments with DA:2? Damn kid I wish I had problems of this magnitude with DA:2.
[/quote]

It's part of the bigger picture of what was one of my biggest disappointments.

[quote]Jackel159357 wrote...
The thing that should go is the fact that you can get shops with unlimited crafting materials, that was stupid and it just meant you had to run around everywhere to get. There should be a limited amount of resources to craft with which would force players to make tactical decision regarding exactly what they want to craft.[/quote]

Yes, thank you.

[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...

My Warden never learned a crafting skill though. She always had someone else do it. [/quote]

Ok, but that character had to make a meaningful sacrifice to achieve that skill. That's the biggest difference.

[quote]
In DA:O that other person did it for free after the Warden provided them with ingredients. In DA II, that other person does it for a small charge after Hawke provides them with a source of ingredients. [/quote]

Hawke tells them he found a plant, and suddenly he can buy as many potions as he wants. I find that nonsensical and completely uninteresting.

Previously, you had to find quantities of various ingredients and recipes, make meaningful sacrifices to achieve the  proficiency to craft them, and manage your inventory to decide what was and wasn't worth saving and what to take with you/not to take with you for where you were going.

This is an entire style of gameplay lost in DA2. By contrast, what would you lose if DA2's system was scrapped? Almost nothing, because you were essentially just buying potions from a shop, anyway.

[quote]
Again, it seems as though the issue isn't the crafting system itself, but the game telling you someone else is making it and not the PC. [/quote]

No, see above.

[quote]
If instead of an ordering table, there had been an alchemy table, and the cost was for material goods used when Hawke made a potion herself, would you have liked the crafting system? [/quote]

No, it would be mechanically the same.

[quote]easygame88 wrote...

I like gathering materials and reagents and using them to craft items. Not just resource nodes like in DA2 though. I mean herbs, ore, bits and pieces of slain monsters. I really loved making potions in the Witcher games. Having to read journal entries about a monster which would enable you to gather a specific part from it and then use it as an ingredient in a potion. The game would often require the use of specific potions sometimes, to see in the dark for example.[/quote]

Agree 100%. Entirely different level of attention to detail, and feeling of accomplishment.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 09 avril 2012 - 09:25 .

[Chromie]

How can anyone like either system? They weren't very good. I'll agree with Origins being better though but for a single player rpg I'd love a crafting system similar to say The Witcher 1 and 2 since the other examples rely on the crafting as a core component of the combat system.

Witcher 1 only allowed for crafting potions but it was fun learning by trial and error. You had to an alcoholic base better quality allowed for better potions and ofcourse materials gathered from monsters you killed out in the wild. Each material had a chance to have 1-2 extra substancs that could add say a bonus increase to health regeneration, stamina regen etc.

Witcher 2 you would crafting a bunch of crap into say leather then hardened leather to make some Kayran Armor assuming you killed a Kayran. They removed the trial and error system but they still have the substances and we are able to craft potions, oils, bombs, traps, armor and weapons. A huge upgrade.

I'd also like to mention Sword Craft Story and I'll just copy the wiki.
"Creation
In this game, players create their own weapons through a crafting process. To create a weapon, the player must first have an item, called a Shapestone, of one of five varieties – sword, axe, spear, knuckle , or drill. A craft material is added to a shapestone to create a usable weapon; which material is used determines the strength of the weapon that is created.

Upgrading
After obtaining a certain skill level in crafting, the player will gain the ability to upgrade weapons with additional materials. This may result in the weapon gaining special qualities.

Disassembling
Players have the option to disassemble weapons they have created to retrieve the Shapestone used to make it. The Shapestone may retain some of the power of the weapon it was disassembled from. Any materials used to create or upgrade the disassembled weapon are lost.

Repairing
Repairing is the most important of all. It recovers all the lost DUR from all the weapons you have. It can also repair weapons which has already a 0 DUR."


And lastly I have to mention Vagrant Story (quite long here)
First of all, there's the affinity system. There are 6 race affinities (Human, Beast, Undead, etc.) and 7 elemental affinities (physical, earth, air, fire, water, light, and dark). If you beat up a bunch of humans with a certain weapon, your Human affinity will go up with that weapon and you'll do more damage to humans. However, for every affinity you raise, there's a chance that 2 other affinities will go down, so you need to keep a varied arsenal.

There's also 9 types of weapons, from daggers to crossbows to great mauls, each with its own ranking in another affinity system that is simpler and isn't modified through use: Piercing, blunt, and slash. These greatly affect your damage done as well. So while a spear might suck against a walking skeleton, as it would go straight through him, a mace would smash him to bits. The spear would be better suited for piercing a dragon's scales.

Anyway, now we come to the crafting system. Your weapons and armor can be made of anything from wood (or leather, for armor) to Damascus. When you combine two weapons together into a new one, it takes into account the types of weapons used, affinities you've built up with them, and the materials they're made out of. And you can't just straight combine the weapons, you have to disassemble them, forge the blades together, and choose a grip for it.


There is something Bioware could learn from a Vagrant Story especially. It would make a crafting system more useful and could add a new way to play the game. I love a great crafting system and Bioware just hasn't made one hell Old Republic doesn't even have a good one.

Modifié par Skelter192, 09 avril 2012 - 04:25 .

[Maria Caliban]

Anomaly- wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dragon Age II's crafting system was damn near perfect. Don't touch it.

It was damn near non-existant.

Right. Perfect.

Accessible. Easy to use. You got what you wanted when you wanted it without hording, sinking skill points into anything, or messing with formulas.

It's the only game so far where I've crafted lots of stuff to use.

Ok, but that character had to make a meaningful sacrifice to achieve that skill. That's the biggest difference.

Crafting a healing potion shouldn't require a meaningful sacrifice.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 09 avril 2012 - 04:39 .

[Chromie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Anomaly- wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dragon Age II's crafting system was damn near perfect. Don't touch it.

It was damn near non-existant.

Right. Perfect.

Accessible. Easy to use. You got what you wanted when you wanted it without hording, sinking skill points into anything, or messing with formulas.

It's the only game so far where I've crafted lots of stuff to use.

[Maria Caliban]

Skelter192 wrote...

Don't be a dick.

[Chromie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Don't be a dick.

Well there's nothing else to say is there? The "crafting" in DA2 was just another thing in game I felt was terrible and felt like it thrown in without a thought.

Modifié par Skelter192, 09 avril 2012 - 04:53 .

[Maria Caliban]

Skelter192 wrote...

Well there's nothing else to say is there? The "crafting" in DA2 was just another thing in game I felt was terrible and felt like it thrown in without a thought.

And your preferred systems is just another form of pointless complexity, but I'm not posting vomit faces.

In DA II, all my companions had runes in their rune slots. Hawke ran around with a bunch of potions and bombs I made, and I used them frequently in battle. I felt rewarded for paying attention to my environment but not bogged down by tedious activities like plucking every bit of white mertale petal I wandered across.

It was simple, easy, and I could quickly produce the stuff I wanted without the hassle most alchemy systems give you.

And that's the point of an alchemy system: To give me stuff to use. Typically a sort of consumable that gives a short term boost in battle.

I'm all for regular crafting, but only for unique or powerful items.

[Chromie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It was simple, easy, and I could quickly produce the stuff I wanted without the hassle most alchemy systems give you.

It was too simple almost non-existent and felt it was aimed for people to stupid to pay attention. It's not like Origins had a complex system or even had you gathering materials frequently.

Like I said, Bioware shouldn't try a Vagrant Story crafting system since it was heavily tied to combat. Witcher 2 is something they can draw inspiration from. There was hardly any junk loot and a lot of stuff you'd find are crafting materials. No reason DA couldn't do that instead off having a ton of crap to haul to a vendor give us materials to craft which would be worth and give us the option to buff us before battle.

To you it may be tedious and you may prefer the much easier and hassle free system of DA2 but I found it terrible. It was either consolization or casualization either way it felt cheap and thrown in at the last second to me.

In Origins all my companions had their runes and in Awakening I had max tier runes for alll possible slots I felt rewarded for being savy with my gold, finding ingredients all over or buying and selling loot for more ingredients.


Edit: Kotor 2 had a improved crafting system from Kotor 1. You spent NO time looking for anything at all you just broke everything down and built weapons, armor, crystals, grenades, stims, medpacks and accessories. Considering all the junk loot in both DA games that could be a good place to start. No farming for mats needed and it's more robust than DA2's system and offers a lot more.

Modifié par Skelter192, 09 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[Anomaly-]

Skelter192 wrote...

How can anyone like either system? They weren't very good. I'll agree with Origins being better though but for a single player rpg I'd love a crafting system similar to say The Witcher 1 and 2 since the other examples rely on the crafting as a core component of the combat system.

To clarify, I'd love a real crafting system, too. I just see a return to DA:O's system as a more realistic expectation, as they've at least done it before, and I'd much rather DA:O's system over DA2's. If they could pull off something similar to crafting in TW2, that would be fantastic.

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's the only game so far where I've crafted lots of stuff to use.

No, you bought it from a store. What I'm proposing would still allow you to do that, so I don't see what you'd be missing out on.

Maria Caliban wrote...
Crafting a healing potion shouldn't require a meaningful sacrifice.

A healing potion? Perhaps not. A good healing potion? Absolutely.

Maria Caliban wrote...
And your preferred systems is just another form of pointless complexity, but I'm not posting vomit faces.

Yikes. How are you going to call him names for expressing dislike for something you like, then come back and say what we like is pointless? It's anything but pointless to me. The only pointless thing I see is the requirement that you found at least 1 plant somewhere, sometime, in DA2. That's the very definition of arbitrary.

In DA II, all my companions had runes in their rune slots. Hawke ran around with a bunch of potions and bombs I made, and I used them frequently in battle. I felt rewarded for paying attention to my environment but not bogged down by tedious activities like plucking every bit of white mertale petal I wandered across.

So again, it seems like you would much rather buy things from a store than craft them. If you were still able to do that, what's the problem?

I never "crafted" a thing in DA2 once I realized what it actually consisted of. By contrast, I always had at least 1 character invest in at least one type of crafting on every single playthrough of DA:O.

It was simple, easy, and I could quickly produce the stuff I wanted without the hassle most alchemy systems give you.

The "hassle" most alchemy systems give you allows you to actually roleplay a character who specializes in poisons, healing potions, traps, etc. It also provides you with a different gameplay experience, so playing that character actually feels different from playing others. Finding an infinitely respawning elfroot node somewhere before you can buy things isn't exactly changing it up much.

And that's the point of an alchemy system: To give me stuff to use. Typically a sort of consumable that gives a short term boost in battle.

The point is to give you the option of a character who specializes in something besides just regular combat, and a gameplay experience that reflects that difference. If you just want stuff to use, you can buy it from a shop like you're already doing.

Skelter192 wrote...
To you it may be tedious and you may prefer the much easier and hassle free system of DA2 but I found it terrible. It was either consolization or casualization either way it felt cheap and thrown in at the last second to me.

In a nutshell.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 09 avril 2012 - 07:15 .

[Realmzmaster]

The crafting system used in the Witcher 1 and 2 is interesting but is not really different from the one in DAO and DA2 except you can use trial and error in TW1. Both games require the ingredients and a recipe (formula in DAO and DA2. Scrolls (TW1) and diagrams (TW2)).

TW1 and TW2 have you find a place to mediate and then prepare the formula. As long as you have the recipe and ingredients there is no possibility of failure. The only time failure exists is if trial and error is used in the Witcher 1, because the only way to test the potion is to drink it. Death could be the result in TW1. Death is not possible in DAO and DA2 unless the entire party dies.

Even in the Witcher most of the traders and merchants have what you need in regards to ingredients. The rest can be found lying around all over the place. You can have both systems. If the player finds a node of an ingredient then the PC can direct the craftman to go gather the necessary ingredients from the nodes and make the potion for a fee. Or the PC can travel to the nodes. Gather the ingredients from the nodes and make the potion with their portable lab provided their hebalism skill is high enough.

[Aaleel]

Bring back crafting period, no more of this shop at home stuff. I don't see how finding items and then paying someone to get them back in the form of an item can be considered crafting.

Let me make items in the field. If I'm going to only be able to buy it in the city, I may was well buy it from a merchant.

[BillsVengenace]

Two Worlds has one of the best crafting system I've seen. BioWare should look to that for inspiration.

[MagmaSaiyan]

honestly the crafting system is practically identical to each other, the only problem is you have to pay for a recipe to even make anything in Origins, so you are paying either way.[/quote]

Edit: acutally i remebered that you pay for recipes in DA2 also, but you can find them elsewhere to.

Modifié par MagmaSaiyan, 09 avril 2012 - 11:42 .

[MagmaSaiyan]

oops.

Modifié par MagmaSaiyan, 09 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[naughty99]

The DA2 crafting was very much pointless because you waste too much gold to make potions and you can easily accumulate as many as you want for free.

Once I realized that enemies only drop potions as soon as you drop below 3 health, stamina, magicka potions (or whatever the number was for Nightmare), I stopped carrying so many and had a neverending supply. If you want to store up potions for a tough battle, put them away in storage and collect as many as you want.

Fortunately, the "potion drinking system" with its lengthy cooldowns is much improved over DA:O, where you could simply spam potions to get through any battle. And I really liked the fact that enemy rogues could steal your potions in DA2. 

I played a rogue character myself in DA2 and tried crafting various bombs and poisons, but eventually I realized I was wasting all my gold when instead I should have been saving up to buy expensive knockback immunity items.

Modifié par naughty99, 10 avril 2012 - 12:41 .