481 réponses à ce sujet

[DocJill]

Eain wrote...

Allan, if you'll forgive for just highlighting one specific part of your post (out of that huge wall that you put so much effort into):

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I do agree that, while there's a unified movement for something to change for the ending, there are differences in what people want that complicate things.

I don't think that that's true. We're all pretty unanimous in one thing: we want Spacekid out. And while Bioware may object to that, we don't understand why. His addition explains nothing, and removing him allows for the story to make more sense. If his existence was intrinsically tied into core story elements, Bioware would have a case. But it's not, and all he does is sow confusion and anger. He's like the anathema to this story that somehow managed to wiggle its way in.

Removing it would please just about everyone. Even pro-enders wouldn't mind.

Removing the space kid would fix soooooo many problems, most notably the odd logic that the mass genocide of intellegent organics every 50,000 years is somehow preferable to the complete extinction of organics. 

Only an AI (one that did not develop with the aid of organics, like EDI did)  would see continious pain, horror, and suffering as a viable and preferable option.  Shepard should be able to tell the space kid that he is full of poo, but no he just accepts it.  WTF? 

And as many a youtube edit has shown, removing the space kid is not hard, and actually makes the ending better.  Just a little more abrupt. 

The only thing that could be keeping the space kid in the game at this point is pride.  Whoever invented the stupid thing does not want to admit he is wrong.  

Edit: Grammar

Modifié par DocJill, 09 avril 2012 - 01:48 .

[Broham]

GdawgTuk wrote...



it's 39 minutes long, but holy cow did it open my eyes to just...everything going on with the ending. It seriously explained why it's so much more than just, "it's sad, I don't like it." Not even close! This seriously says it all, and Bioware employees and fans alike should check this out. 

This video is like an omni-clairvoyant disembodied sage voice.

[Saul Iscariot]

It is someone simply voicing their opinion on their view of what the ME universe is and what is wrong with ME3.

[killnoob]

imagine if the Dragon Age origin team put a random spirit kid that says darkspawns are his solution for mage-chantry conflicts instead of giving us the Archdemon battle.....

[Flextt]

killnoob wrote...

imagine if the Dragon Age origin team put a random spirit kid that says darkspawns are his solution for mage-chantry conflicts instead of giving us the Archdemon battle.....

75 PERFECT SCORES YOU IMBECILE!

[Vasparian]

This video nails everything dead on. Bioware you failed us. You can hide behind artistic integrity... But that is just a smoke screen. You have become just another failure. Please stop making games.

[captainwaffles]

 Bioware, please watch the video and heed this mans advice! 

[LadyWench]

killnoob wrote...

imagine if the Dragon Age origin team put a random spirit kid that says darkspawns are his solution for mage-chantry conflicts instead of giving us the Archdemon battle.....

Ow, oww! My heart! Don't scare me like that. That would have been...just, no. It wouldn't have worked for DA:O and that's exactly how well I felt it worked for ME3.

Boo, Catalyst. Booooo, space magic. If my Shepard had known in hindsight about this hologram kid supposedly "controlling" the reapers and what the crucible does, I would have just evacuated and blown up the Citadel and taken my chances. <_<

[Chris-1983]

Wow this Video is awesome. It perfectly shows how disappointing and lazy made the ending is. I really hope the developer watch this and realise what they have done to Mass Effect and their fanbase and why we are all so disappointed, mad and hoped first that it all was just a bad joke. I have not much hope in the extended end dlc, but maybe there is a miracle and Bioware is able to push sense in this disappointing ending and satisfy their fanbase. For me it will be the last evidence whether is able to create epic and worthy endings or lost themself and their fans in their "great" artistic integrity .

[vitae-vixi]

LadyWench wrote...

Boo, Catalyst. Booooo, space magic. If my Shepard had known in hindsight about this hologram kid supposedly "controlling" the reapers and what the crucible does, I would have just evacuated and blown up the Citadel and taken my chances. <_<

^ This.

I liked the video, a nice, polite well reasoned response ^^. There are a few things I would add, but if everything he talks about was addressed I'd be sated lol.

[phat0817]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


Just a question.  I know a lot of peole say their issue is with the Catalyst alone.  If that's the case then the endings and the abilities that the Crucible end up providing are still okay (or at least easier to swallow)?

Ah...In my opinion and only mine the answer would be no..the god child and the three choices just need to be scraped and if don't go indoctrination then I really have no idea how to fix that ending Allen.

[Nemotenetur]

jbauck wrote...

Spartanburger wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
It's actually why I like the sacrifice of the Geth, because I do care about them.  It made me think about choosing destroy.

Personally, the Geth sacrifice seemed to come out of nowhere for me and seemed completely undeserving.

Let me put it in different words. Yes, the goal is to destroy all the synthetics and Destroy accomplishes that very well. My problem is that destroying what the Geth symbolize came as a slap to the face to me.

We (Shepard) witnessed (if peace is chosen or if you're a monster and saved the Geth over the Quarians) a race being born. Not physically, but mentally. You were there, talking with Legion while he made the Geth fully sentient individuals.

<snipped really great post>

The Crucible's premise - synthetics and organics are doomed to conflict with each others - really, really suffers because the synthetic/organic conflict we are most familiar with is the Quarian/Geth conflict.  Not only is it possible for us to make peace between these two races, but from ME1 to ME3, Tali grows from a racist who hates the Geth due to her fear and ignorance, to someone who knows better.

100% agree about how the synthetics vs organics conflict was presented throughout the game. It's fine to change the central conflict from 'destroy the reapers' to 'solve the problem of synthetics inevitable rebellion against organics' but that needs to be handled with more care than it was. We only ever see that Singularity isn't a problem in this cycle, and only have the Catalyst's word that it eventually will be. 

And maybe he's right. It is a valid concen. Picking Destroy is making the gamble that he isn't, it's the hope synthetics and organics can live in peace. Players feel confident to make this gamble because of the Geth and EDI, yet this option removes these factors. But much worse than that, it removes only them.

There are no more synthetics yet a very important data point is created for future synthetics: rather than merge with us or control their enemy, the organics chose to sacrifice us. Uhmm... The option bothers me because it gives synthetics a very, very good reason to be suspicious of organics and eventually rebel. The already uncertain outcome of breaking the reaper cycle just got a lot more likely to turn out very badly for future generations.

[killnoob]

LadyWench wrote...

killnoob wrote...

imagine if the Dragon Age origin team put a random spirit kid that says darkspawns are his solution for mage-chantry conflicts instead of giving us the Archdemon battle.....

Ow, oww! My heart! Don't scare me like that. That would have been...just, no. It wouldn't have worked for DA:O and that's exactly how well I felt it worked for ME3.

Boo, Catalyst. Booooo, space magic. If my Shepard had known in hindsight about this hologram kid supposedly "controlling" the reapers and what the crucible does, I would have just evacuated and blown up the Citadel and taken my chances. <_<

nah, that was just a thought  experiment to demonstrate the silliness of putting a metaphysics-speaking npc at the climax of the game. 

[Aesieru]

To be fair Allan, the game was promised to be something after the game went gold, it was advertised and assurred to be as such. This is primarily one of the reasons people felt confident in going through with purchasing Mass Effect 3.

These ended up being lies and the interviews themselves very clearly indicate that at least when misadvertising, that BioWare knows what fans want and how to make a good game, but when it actually comes down to it, they refuse to.

You can dispute this, but you can't dispute the statements themselves because they are clear as crystal.

[Belhawk]

BW messed up the ending and won't admit it.
The OP did an excellent job explaining why i felt lost, depressed, and betrayed by the ending, and i thank him for it.
I longer explanation of a messed up ending just extends the pain showing how clueless BW is. I have read where people are dropping not just ME, but TOR also to protest this bad ending. So, BW is really hurting themselves and there brand for making good stories.

[Tasker]

DocJill wrote...

Eain wrote...

Allan, if you'll forgive for just highlighting one specific part of your post (out of that huge wall that you put so much effort into):

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I do agree that, while there's a unified movement for something to change for the ending, there are differences in what people want that complicate things.

I don't think that that's true. We're all pretty unanimous in one thing: we want Spacekid out. And while Bioware may object to that, we don't understand why. His addition explains nothing, and removing him allows for the story to make more sense. If his existence was intrinsically tied into core story elements, Bioware would have a case. But it's not, and all he does is sow confusion and anger. He's like the anathema to this story that somehow managed to wiggle its way in.

Removing it would please just about everyone. Even pro-enders wouldn't mind.

Removing the space kid would fix soooooo many problems, most notably the odd logic that the mass genocide of intellegent organics every 50,000 years is somehow preferable to the complete extinction of organics. 

Only an AI (one that did not develop with the aid of organics, like EDI did)  would see continious pain, horror, and suffering as a viable and preferable option.  Shepard should be able to tell the space kid that he is full of poo, but no he just accepts it.  WTF? 

And as many a youtube edit has shown, removing the space kid is not hard, and actually makes the ending better.  Just a little more abrupt. 

The only thing that could be keeping the space kid in the game at this point is pride.  Whoever invented the stupid thing does not want to admit he is wrong.  

Edit: Grammar

Even though i've already posted this earlier in the thread.  I'm posting this again.

It shows just how easy it would be to get rid of starkid and proves that he isn't needed in the slightest.



The bit you want starts at 5:30.  But it's worth watching it all as it's awesome.

Modifié par Orkboy, 09 avril 2012 - 05:15 .

[Dorrieb]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Hmmm.  I imagine then that had the choices themselves been identical, but determined somehow by Shepard or maybe the Citadel VI or a source more trusting, how would they have been received.  Lets make the assumption that we don't necessarily get more information.

Just a question.  I know a lot of peole say their issue is with the Catalyst alone.  If that's the case then the endings and the abilities that the Crucible end up providing are still okay (or at least easier to swallow)?

Actually yeah. A bit like this: You haven't a moment to lose, the Alliance is screaming in your ear, and the destruct button is right there (Destroy ending). But a hologram of Harbinger appears and says 'Wait! Join us in the machine and we will surrender to you and follow your orders!' (Control ending). Shepard notices the white beam and wonders, what's that over there? 'It's dangerous,' says Harbinger. 'It will change everything forever.' (Synthesis ending).

It's still not great and you could still end up doing something horrible like destroying the Geth, but at least Shepard didn't know. She had no more information and was running out of time. I can see it, sorta.

[k8ee]

LadyWench wrote...

Ow, oww! My heart! Don't scare me like that. That would have been...just, no. It wouldn't have worked for DA:O and that's exactly how well I felt it worked for ME3.

Boo, Catalyst. Booooo, space magic. If my Shepard had known in hindsight about this hologram kid supposedly "controlling" the reapers and what the crucible does, I would have just evacuated and blown up the Citadel and taken my chances. <_<

I had considered this a few times. Why the hell didn't Shep blow up the Citadel? Surely having their creator/leader destroyed would have weakened the reapers.

[The Exiled Paladin]

These videos are awesome and very well made. I have to say I agree with alot if not all of what has been said in them and it also good to see Allan posting here giving us his views and opinions.

Anyway I hope that at least some of the team behind ME3 see this video and were able to post just like Allan, but alas that is just a fools hope.

[humes spork]

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Star Trek as a model for "talky and techy" and consistent? Seriously?

I have two words for that supposition: deflector dish.

In fact, I'ma dig this link up again:

http://tubedubber.co...KtY:0:100:0:0:1 

Modifié par humes spork, 09 avril 2012 - 06:09 .

[Sangheili_1337]

This video is probably the best explanation as to why the ending of Mass Effect 3 doesn't work that has been made so far. I am worried that the members of the Mass Effect team hasn't watched it.

[Yougottawanna]

Major news: This extended cut thing might actually work.

Someone managed to get their hands on a leaked script of the extended ending, and I have to say this script is very promising. Ties up all the loose ends, satisfying, character-focused... just great.

Here's a link to a copy: ferretbrain.com/articles/article-853

[miraclemight]

That leaked script looks like a fake. A very obvious fake.

[phat0817]

Yougottawanna wrote...

Major news: This extended cut thing might actually work.

Someone managed to get their hands on a leaked script of the extended ending, and I have to say this script is very promising. Ties up all the loose ends, satisfying, character-focused... just great.

Here's a link to a copy: ferretbrain.com/articles/article-853

Well that's some good news for a change thanks for posting Video guy