125 réponses à ce sujet

[DatIrishFella]

 This was my biggest gripe, after finishing Mass Effect 1 and 2 I was like ... :happy: ..... now just playing Mass Effect 3 I'm like ..... 

Why oh why would they remove the dialogue wheel to such an extent. The game has ZERO replayability for me. I've imported all six of my Sheps up to the first time you go to the Citadel and they are all practically the same ..... EA's Shepard. 

[Jaron Oberyn]

DatIrishFella wrote...

 This was my biggest gripe, after finishing Mass Effect 1 and 2 I was like ... :happy: ..... now just playing Mass Effect 3 I'm like ..... 

Why oh why would they remove the dialogue wheel to such an extent. The game has ZERO replayability for me. I've imported all six of my Sheps up to the first time you go to the Citadel and they are all practically the same ..... EA's Shepard. 

Been saying that for a while, since LoTSB and Arrival, but not many people joined in. Apparently Bioware took that as a sign of approval and did it with an entire game. As nice as it would be, I doubt they'll add more dialogue control. 

-Polite

[lillitheris]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Been saying that for a while, since LoTSB and Arrival, but not many people joined in. Apparently Bioware took that as a sign of approval and did it with an entire game. As nice as it would be, I doubt they'll add more dialogue control.

I actually just replayed LotSB, and noticed the trend there. It's not that bad (although that's also helped by the fact that the auto parts were closer to what I'd probably have chosen than they were in ME3); I could deal with that level of autodialogue.

[lillitheris]

Added a single new Kaidan. Managed to misplace my little notepad somewhere…have to find it or I have to replay to get the last scenes -.-

[Fireblader70]

I've only just started playing 'The Witcher'. Since many people on this forum claimed to love that series after 'Dragon Age II', I can't help but feel the abundance of auto-dialogue was a result of this. Maybe they thought that, because 'The Witcher' had so much auto-dialogue, and was still popular, people would not mind it so much in ME3.

Just a thought. Random, but interesting.

[SynheKatze]

^If they really did that, that'd be the most retarded idea ever.

[Fireblader70]

SynheKatze wrote...

^If they really did that, that'd be the most retarded idea ever.

Yeah, it wouldn't have been their finest hour, that's for sure...

[lillitheris]

Well, the track record recently isn't stellar. The Witcher does have a lot of autodialogue, but of course Geralt is essentially a defined character whereas Shepard was supposed to be ‘yours’.

[Ice Cold J]

lillitheris wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

And I don't see how you could add much dialogue options that wouldn't change the game's ending.

Hmm, how do you mean? None of the additions (or breaks) I have really change anything so far as I can tell…they're just intended to give the player a better connection with the character. One of the grounding ideas is that even if we add a new option, its consequences would still be the same as one of the existing one's (unless BW wants to change that too).

I can see what you mean, but I personally don't see how Shep could say much radically different than what (s)he already says that wouldn't alter how the ending plays out.

[lillitheris]

Ice Cold J wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

And I don't see how you could add much dialogue options that wouldn't change the game's ending.

Hmm, how do you mean? None of the additions (or breaks) I have really change anything so far as I can tell…they're just intended to give the player a better connection with the character. One of the grounding ideas is that even if we add a new option, its consequences would still be the same as one of the existing one's (unless BW wants to change that too).

I can see what you mean, but I personally don't see how Shep could say much radically different than what (s)he already says that wouldn't alter how the ending plays out.

Frankly, I don’t think they even need to change the others’ responses!

In addition to e.g. “we must save Earth because I’m human!” we can add “we must attack the Reapers in Sol because they’re there!” and the Council can just use the same “yeah, no” reply

[lillitheris]

Bump, not sure I’ll continue gathering any more info, I’m not playing ME3 and nobody else seems inclined to contribute.

[Demoiselle]

Miranda pre-Horizon. All the options were railroaded into a friendly relationship with her, especially her meeting in the Presidium Commons. The last two options were basiclly both 'I forgive you now stop worrying about what you've done in the past'. The choices were too similar, and there was no option for a Shepard who DIDN'T want to just let her forge about what she'd done in the past, especially since what she'd tried to do to Shepard was the only thing she expressed guilt over.

Personally I would have liked an option for Shep to tell her to feel guilt over what she'd done and ignored being done to people who could defend themselves a lot less than Shep could, and not just feel guilty over that one specific case and nothing else. Specificlly, pointing out how the 'experiments' done to Jack and on Akuze ect. were in the spirit of Cerberus all along.

Also an option to blow her off at the first meeting... basiclly the option for any serious Anti-Cerberus/Miranda hater Sheps to basiclly go along a different route. You could still have all the conversations but make it clear from the start that now that Shep isn't with Cerberus, it is strictly professional between them, and Shep does NOT like her. If this then affected Miranda and Sheps conversations/reactions with eachother like letting Vega call you Lola/Loco or not affected whether he was friendly/proffesional with you later, I think this would be a nice way of letting the player have input into thier Sheps relationships with others more.

Also...Jacob. Either I want to take him back or wish him the best? No, no, no. I want to tell him he's a bastard the moment I hear about him cheating, not have to ask him to come back to get that dialogue.

[JBONE27]

I would like to see more paragon and renegade interrupts and something with Harbinger.

[xSTONEYx187x]

This thread deserves front page, even for future games, remove the dialogue wheel, or streamline it like Mass Effect 3 and I certainly won't be buying a future BioWare game.

I still love Mass Effect 1 & 2 mind you.

[Ghost]

+1

[lillitheris]

Thanks for the suggestions! Will add when I get back to my master list at home…

[DeinonSlayer]

Priority: The Citadel III: Stranded Quarian

After Priority: Rannoch, Shepard can encounter a young male quarian, Raja'Shol nar Ulnay, on the Citadel. He was on pilgrimage, and was unable to make it back to the fleet before the conflict began. Interaction differs depending on the outcome of the war.

Quarian Victory:
Raja gets on his hands and knees thanking Shepard for helping the quarians retake their homeworld. He shares that (as is stated in the Codex, and elevator conversations in ME1) billions of quarians died at the hands of the geth in the morning war (for whom he thinks justice has finally been achieved), and his people suffered generations of fear and doubt which have now been laid to rest. The commander's available reactions differ based on whether Legion or the Geth VI was present on Rannoch.

With Legion (Peace is possible, but you either lacked some criteria to achieve it, or decided against it):
Paragon: Something to the effect of: I'm glad your people were able to go home... but the price was the extinction of a sapient species.
Renegade: So long as your people are ready to fight, I'm happy to help.

Without Legion (the Geth VI is open about its genocidal intentions - peace is impossible):
Paragon: It was closer than you would ever want to know, but I'm glad to see the quarians return to their homeworld.
Renegade: So long as your people are ready to fight, I'm happy to help.

Raja'Shol will thank you again, saying the quarians will stand with you and expressing his hope that you will reclaim your own world in the near future.


Peace:
Raja stays on his feet this time. He is thankful to the commander for aiding his people in retaking their homeworld, but still unnerved by the prospect of sharing Rannoch with the Geth. He is uncertain if the Geth can be trusted with the safety of the quarian civilian population (specifically his parents) left behind on Rannoch while the fleet goes to war, saying that just three years ago they were attacking the Citadel. He doesn't know about the Heretic/Geth schism. Shepard can either be reassuring, saying that while it will take time for the wounds to heal, the Geth have no hostile intentions (Paragon), or Shepard can berate Raja, saying that that kind of suspicion and distrust is what caused the war in the first place (Renegade). Either way, Raja'Shol will thank you again, saying the quarians will stand with you and expressing his hope that you will reclaim your own world in the near future.

Geth Victory:
Although unarmed, the quarian is furious. Raja'Shol recognizes Shepard, and follows after you, demanding to know what happened and accusing you of being responsible for the extinction of the quarian race, and by extension, the deaths of his parents. "You murdered us. You murdered us! Why?" Shepard automatically asks what Raja is doing there. The quarian angrily says that there can only be a few hundred survivors scattered across the galaxy - exiles, or pilgrims who were unable to make it back to the fleet in time.

Paragon: I saw their records. Their memories. Your entire history was you trying to destroy the geth. They only acted to defend themselves.
Raja'Shol: They told you exactly what they needed you to hear, and you believed every word of it?

Renegade: I don't have time for this.

[Both Paragon and Renegade Shepard start to walk away at this point]
Raja'Shol: Don't you walk away from me. Hey! [Grabs Shepard's shoulder to turn them around] [*Renegade interrupt]

*Interrupt: [As Shepard whips around, he reflexively draws his pistol and shoots Raja in the stomach one time. The quarian pilgrim seizes and drops to his knees, clutching the wound before looking at the blood on his hands. Raja looks up at Shepard, and slumps to the floor dead without saying a word.]

Raja'Shol: Look at me. [with the camera behind his shoulder, he unseals his mask and throws it to the ground] Look at me! Look me in the eye and tell me! Why?

Shepard (Paragon, with Legion: I tried to stop it): I'm sorry. I never meant it to happen, but the Admirals wouldn't back down. Please, put your mask back on!
Shepard (Paragon, without Legion: I had to choose): (Apologies to readers at this point, I can't think of a paragon justification for this that I can stomach to put into writing. The Geth VI plainly states that it intends to exterminate the quarians. Unlike Legion, it expresses no remorse at the prospect, and Shepard lets it happen. I cannot envision a paragon justification for this.) Please... put your mask back on!
Raja'Shol: Why? Why did the Geth deserve life more than us? Why do the humans deserve to live more than us?
Shepard: If there are more of you out there, you can still come back together. You still have a future!
Raja'Shol: (voice breaking) We have no future, Shepard!

Shepard (Renegade, with Legion: It was your fault): [approaching with clenched fists] Your fleet refused to disengage. The geth defended themselves. All I did was stand back and let events run their course. Your people killed yourselves. And so have you.
Shepard (Renegade, without Legion: The geth are more useful): [approaching with clenched fists] Only one of you was coming out alive. I had to choose based on who would help us win the war. The Geth have a larger, more powerful fleet. Your people killed yourselves when you started the war. And right now... so have you.

[Raja'Shol starts coughing, paramedics move in, but it's unlikely he will survive the open-air exposure.]

I could see changes being made to the dialogue for Geth victory, but that's the basic gist of it. I think it's ridiculous that, as it stands now, you allow the entire Quarian race to be exterminated then go back on the Normandy to find James and Kaidan playing poker as if they hadn't just watched the entire Quarian race being exterminated. There would be much more blowback to something like that happening than is presented in-game, and I think this would be a reasonable part of it.

[pika9519]

Really great stuff on here that should be seen.
As suggested above, I'd love to see more interrupts as well.

[lillitheris]

…Bump since dialogue’s been on the wall again.

[wright1978]

lillitheris wrote...


There are two main categories of changes:

1. More dialogue wheel. There're already three levels of dialogue interaction, so adding a classic RPG/Story mode would work fine (or modifying an existing one, but that's not optimal). Ideally, I'd be able to select an option for each individual discussion segment or question, but just adding some would go a long way. There are some pretty long autodialogues that would definitely benefit from breaks.

I want to be really clear here: if there's a question to Shepard and the dialogue wheel pops up with just a single option instead of autodialoguing it, I'd love it. I just want to click on it. I mean it's better if there are actually multiple options, but even that's not necessary. I'm completely, 100%, serious.

No additional voice acting required, because the lines are all there. You'd just break them up. In some cases additional dialogue lines can be added by strictly reusing old lines, requiring no new ones (but this is not strictly necessary). Also, the people who are happier with fewer choices are unaffected as they can just use the existing modes. In many cases, if it seems that multiple slightly different options could work, they can map to the same spoken line (or existing lines can be reused).


2. Additional responses. In many cases in ME3, Shepard's roleplayability (and replayability) would benefit from an additional answer style (many of the dialogue wheels we do get even only have a Paragon/Renegade, no Neutral option). Again, there wouldn't be a need to add anything to the decision trees, it could just be mapping different statements to the same outcomes.

This is obviously more intensive, since it may require additional voice acting in some cases where existing or cut VA lines (from ME/ME2/ME3) can't be reused, but maybe it could be done along with the other possible VA work that will go into the Extended Cut and/or other DLC?

As an example, I and many others felt that many of Shepard's statements in ME3 were too Earth-centric. For some Shepards, it's out of character to be so gung ho about Earth rather than the entire galactic community. For others it's completely in character, and that's perfectly fine.

As for 1) no, if dialogue wheel comes up there needs to be at least 2 choices. Otherwise it's no different from the awful autodialogue crew conversations shep gets involved in by clicking on crew member.

2) additional responses.

Some simple things

Allegiances. Look at ME2 dialogue choices. Shep isn't necessarily a alliance boot licker. Similarly his relationship with Earth in my opinion should be open to dialogue choice.
Relationships. More subtlety to Shep's relationships with other characters. This sudden father-son thing with anderson came completely out of left field as far as i'm concerned as a specific example.

Finally auto-shep should be restricted to areas that don't define Shep's opinions.

[lillitheris]

^ Thank you, but concrete examples, please!


(I wasn’t actually 100% serious.)

Modifié par lillitheris, 03 juin 2012 - 09:34 .

[ztemplarz]

I support. I think they were just pressed for time, and did autodialogue because they were sure of how they wanted several scenes to go down, and they really came out well after the "take". I don't think they will do any of this for the EC, as we are likely in the minority here, but hopefully they will take it into consideration for their future games- more interaction/influence with dialogue is kinda key to an RPG.

[xSTONEYx187x]

Just for future reference for any planned DLC, BioWare.

[lillitheris]

xSTONEYx187x wrote...

Just for future reference for any planned DLC, BioWare.

That too…I really hope they do the classic BioWare overcorrection to the right direction this time around