210 réponses à ce sujet

[Grimskull89]

LittleTito wrote...

dmath2 wrote...
Getting BioWare to commit to the EC is a remarkable achievement IMO, even if it's not everything we wanted, and I'm proud to be part of Retake. I'm also slightly surprised that I've managed to avoid responding to any trolls - never knew I could exercise that kind of restraint...

That self-moderating behaviour was one key component that made Retake taken seriously and it's something we can ill effort to lose.

The rules still stand - be civil, be objective and obey forum rules.

With the announcement of the new DLC, a myriad of new threads from retakers, ex-retakers and people claiming to be retakers sprung out, all with different agendas and none of the sensibilities exhibited the last couple of weeks ago that made Retake a serious force to be reckoned with.

It's time we regroup and find our soul again.  I like this thread, it's introspective and retrospective.  We can rally around it. 

But our main banner should be CDRSKYSHEPARD's thread.  It is painstakely archived and categorized in the OP and folks are still somewhat respectful of the standards set there.

It would be nice if the person in charge of the FB page would at least unify with the efforts of the people over at www.holdtheline.com, seems against it for whatever reason even though the HTL community leaders have tried to several times. Otherwise, I feel we may need to change our banners...

[Someguyukno]

S Atomeha wrote...

And then we'll win this. I feel it. Do you feel it?

Oh, I feel it. We're going to win this, not just for the Shepards, but for the Dragonborns, the Spartans, and every damn hero that shall come. We Hold The Line for all!

Modifié par Someguyukno, 08 avril 2012 - 11:38 .

[Someguyukno]

Namz89 wrote...

I agree. Even if there is no "victory" in sight, even if all our efforts will change nothing, it won't be for naught. I think we've shown the game industry how much power the customers/players/fans have. For that fact alone, I am willing to go down fighting, rather than play nice with Bioware and their poor attempts to justify something that makes no sense regarding the rest of the game, instead of admitting their mistake and really trying to fix it.

Sure, they might pull of something great with that ending DLC, but so far - what I've read from their statements, I'm not expecting anything from it. As Tali said: "I'm in favour of second chances...third chances is streching it."

I am not willing to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt again - for they have betrayed my expectations two times already, one time involving a great deal of money (preordering the CE).

Until they give us a ending that is acceptable and satisfying or they shut down all hope - saying "That's it, we are not going to provide more stuff. Period." I will hold the line.

I am proud to Hold The LIne with people like you. You know we're fighting for something more than just an ending. This has grown into something bigger without us even knowing it. The Mass Effect Trilogy was one of the greatest stories ever told until the God Child showed up, and until it gets the ending it deserves, I'll continue Holding The LIne for as long as it takes.

[Someguyukno]

Grimskull89 wrote...

LittleTito wrote...

dmath2 wrote...
Getting BioWare to commit to the EC is a remarkable achievement IMO, even if it's not everything we wanted, and I'm proud to be part of Retake. I'm also slightly surprised that I've managed to avoid responding to any trolls - never knew I could exercise that kind of restraint...

That self-moderating behaviour was one key component that made Retake taken seriously and it's something we can ill effort to lose.

The rules still stand - be civil, be objective and obey forum rules.

With the announcement of the new DLC, a myriad of new threads from retakers, ex-retakers and people claiming to be retakers sprung out, all with different agendas and none of the sensibilities exhibited the last couple of weeks ago that made Retake a serious force to be reckoned with.

It's time we regroup and find our soul again.  I like this thread, it's introspective and retrospective.  We can rally around it. 

But our main banner should be CDRSKYSHEPARD's thread.  It is painstakely archived and categorized in the OP and folks are still somewhat respectful of the standards set there.

It would be nice if the person in charge of the FB page would at least unify with the efforts of the people over at www.holdtheline.com, seems against it for whatever reason even though the HTL community leaders have tried to several times. Otherwise, I feel we may need to change our banners...

Like the Krogan, Salarians and the Turians, we must put our differences aside for the sake of the movement. We face an enemy bigger than anything we've ever fought, and if we don't stand together it ends here. Whether or not you wanted the ending changed or you wanted closure, we must all see that fighting each other benefits no one but Bioware and EA. So stand together, keep your sights on Bioware and EA, and if the new DLC sucks, blow it out of the water.

[tobiasks]

I agree with you and I will keep holding the line aslong as there is one.

[Someguyukno]

tobiasks wrote...

I agree with you and I will keep holding the line aslong as there is one.

I'm proud to be standing next to you, all of you. We are truly a force united for something good. I'll continue to Hold The LIne with you all until the very end!

[katamuro]

I agree, we did quite a lot and even if later we will not be successful I am proud to have been part of this.

[Someguyukno]

katamuro wrote...

I agree, we did quite a lot and even if later we will not be successful I am proud to have been part of this.

Even if we don't succeed in creating an ending worthy of the Mass Effect Trilogy, the gaming industry will feel the effects of this movement. We've had an impact, and we're not done yet. We will Hold The Line for as long as it takes!

[Someguyukno]

I just want to say that I'm proud to be Holding The Line with so many great people. We've done so much already, and yet still the movement is ready for more. This is truly something that will be remembered by the industry, we are changing things for the better. It has, and will continue to be an honor to fight with you all for the ending the series deserves.

[BladyMZ]

Retake had something great going for it in the start - there seemed to be 3 groups of people who joined it - some, who wanted a complete Rewrite of the endings (Red Retakers), some, who wanted more cutscenes after the ending, synthesis of new content with old to "bring closure" (Green Retakers), and other, who wanted it all to be a dream/IT (Blue Retakers).

After the latest info from Bioware it seemed two of the groups gave up. "Closure" ones, including mysefl, want to belLIEve that the Extended Cut will be enough. "IT" guys have nothing supporting their theory now, thats the ending Bioware wanted.

So it leaves only "Complete Rewrite" guys holding the line - and well, the chances of survival are very low for this group.

[Grimskull89]

BladyMZ wrote...

Retake had something great going for it in the start - there seemed to be 3 groups of people who joined it - some, who wanted a complete Rewrite of the endings (Red Retakers), some, who wanted more cutscenes after the ending, synthesis of new content with old to "bring closure" (Green Retakers), and other, who wanted it all to be a dream/IT (Blue Retakers).

After the latest info from Bioware it seemed two of the groups gave up. "Closure" ones, including mysefl, want to belLIEve that the Extended Cut will be enough. "IT" guys have nothing supporting their theory now, thats the ending Bioware wanted.

So it leaves only "Complete Rewrite" guys holding the line - and well, the chances of survival are very low for this group.

You have an interesting viewpoint on the matter. Though things look grim, Bioware's press releases only inspired me to pick up the banner. Their message was clear, they are not changing the ending, they are not adding more player content only cutscenes. In other words, this is not the victory the retakers wanted, this is just an extension of their "artistic integrity" and I refuse to accept it.

Hold the line brothers!

[Someguyukno]

BladyMZ wrote...

Retake had something great going for it in the start - there seemed to be 3 groups of people who joined it - some, who wanted a complete Rewrite of the endings (Red Retakers), some, who wanted more cutscenes after the ending, synthesis of new content with old to "bring closure" (Green Retakers), and other, who wanted it all to be a dream/IT (Blue Retakers).

After the latest info from Bioware it seemed two of the groups gave up. "Closure" ones, including mysefl, want to belLIEve that the Extended Cut will be enough. "IT" guys have nothing supporting their theory now, thats the ending Bioware wanted.

So it leaves only "Complete Rewrite" guys holding the line - and well, the chances of survival are very low for this group.

I don't entirely agree. Bioware's decision may have caused a fission but I'm confident members will realize that we can't be fighting amongst ourselves, Bioware is the target. They're the ones we need to focus on. Will the closure dlc be good? That's what we need to focus on now. Until then, we'll continue to Hold The Line.

[JamesT91]

ive only just read bits and pieces about pax and the extended cut, but from what i can see we didnt realyl accomplish anything, the main issue with the ending is the lack of closure and many plot holes.

instead of them living up to their promise and advertisements, they are simply giving us more of the endings that have basically ruined the series. expanding on a problem instead of solving it isnt a good thing

Modifié par JamesT91, 08 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

[LadyWench]

It's been great to go over all these issues with like-minded members of the community. Trollers aside, for the most part it's been a positive experience and some good, charitable work has come from our efforts. I hope you are right about this having a lasting impact, though perhaps I am still too cynical and a little bitter about this whole debacle to say I have 100% faith in that. Our unhappiness registered and they got the message that fans weren't going to accept the status quo, at the very least!

I'm really, REALLY hoping the DLC will make some sense of this mess (granted, I also hoped that IT was true, if for no other reason than because I love Bioware's work and wanted it all to be a planned, epic twist rather than a poorly crap ending, but I have now conceded that cannot be the case *sniffle*)...until then, it's good to know I'm not alone.

[Someguyukno]

JamesT91 wrote...

ive only just read bits and pieces about pax and the extended cut, but from what i can see we didnt realyl accomplish anything, the main issue with the ending is the lack of closure and many plot holes.

instead of them living up to their promise and advertisements, they are simply giving us more of the endings that have basically ruined the series. expanding on a problem instead of solving it isnt a good thing

Though I'm not pleased to hear Bioware won't be changing the ending and only extending it, I'll hold off scorn until I've seen it. It it's bad, then we'll let loose

The movement has not been a failure, we've done something that fans have been trying to do for years: we've gotten the attention of EA and Bioware and shown them that we aren't going to take this treatment anymore. Day 1 dlc, stock photos, and now the ending; they're in full damage control mode now. This proves that we've had an impact, and we are not done.

For as long as it takes, we'll be here, Holding The Line.

[Someguyukno]

LadyWench wrote...

It's been great to go over all these issues with like-minded members of the community. Trollers aside, for the most part it's been a positive experience and some good, charitable work has come from our efforts. I hope you are right about this having a lasting impact, though perhaps I am still too cynical and a little bitter about this whole debacle to say I have 100% faith in that. Our unhappiness registered and they got the message that fans weren't going to accept the status quo, at the very least!

I'm really, REALLY hoping the DLC will make some sense of this mess (granted, I also hoped that IT was true, if for no other reason than because I love Bioware's work and wanted it all to be a planned, epic twist rather than a poorly crap ending, but I have now conceded that cannot be the case *sniffle*)...until then, it's good to know I'm not alone.

This whole ordeal has changed us all, and definitely for the better. Some wonderful things have emerged from a sad situation. I'm confident the movement will continue, so long as people like us are willing to take a stand and Hold The Line.

[ElMuchu]

Someguyukno wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

I was actually on the sidelines for a while and ghosted through the forums because I was optimistic of Bioware... then Bioware started making announcements that seemed that seemed too rehearsed, felt empty, and not apologetic in any fashion. I decided to put my hand in, join the masses and have become vocal.

Others may retire, they deserve a break. I will take their place and hold the line.

The words "Clarification" and "Artistic Integrity" sure have been used to a sickening degree. Seriously, they're making me sick. Please make it stop.

We'll Hold the Line as long as it takes!

You are right. in addition, I would say it is not a problem of artistic integrity, it is a matter or promises made during the development. We did not force Bioware to say that oour choices will matter and that the endings will be very different...

[ramenbito]

No matter the conclusion of this, I think we should be proud of how we came together and became support to each other, one thing this whole mess gave me is the people i have met during this and the knowledge that I was not alone.

No matter what I am standing here holding the line (and my wallet I suppose).

[Someguyukno]

ElMuchu wrote...

Someguyukno wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

I was actually on the sidelines for a while and ghosted through the forums because I was optimistic of Bioware... then Bioware started making announcements that seemed that seemed too rehearsed, felt empty, and not apologetic in any fashion. I decided to put my hand in, join the masses and have become vocal.

Others may retire, they deserve a break. I will take their place and hold the line.

The words "Clarification" and "Artistic Integrity" sure have been used to a sickening degree. Seriously, they're making me sick. Please make it stop.

We'll Hold the Line as long as it takes!

You are right. in addition, I would say it is not a problem of artistic integrity, it is a matter or promises made during the development. We did not force Bioware to say that oour choices will matter and that the endings will be very different...

I actually posted a forum about this earlier. Here was my post on the topic:

 hate how people keep tossing around the words "Artistic Integrity" when defending the Mass Effect 3 ending. I'm not saying this out of spite, I'm stating that this defense does not measure up.

Video games, and Mass Effect in particular, differ from films and paintings in one key way: interactivity. This is KEY in the Mass Effect trilogy. This isn't just Bioware's story, this is OUR Shepard's story, each different and each with different consequences. Bioware has essentially built a tool to tell a story in a fixed universe, and we shape that story through our choices. This is the basis for the Mass Effect universe.

To illustrate, let's compare the ending choices from Mass Effect 2 and 3. In 2, there are only 2 different choices, less than in 3. But those two choices, preserve or destroy the base, each fulfill every person's choice. There is no other option, and we feel the impact of the choice when talking with the Illusive Man later. Mass Effect 3 has 3 endings, but they don't encompass all of our choices that should be available. Some people say that they should simply refuse the God Child's options and let the battle play out based on War Assets. This, combined with continuity issues and plot holes, make up the reasons for why the Mass Effect 3 ending is broken.

Now back to Artistic Integrity. Why does this not apply? Simple: when something is broken in a game, it needs to be fixed. If the controls don't work, this needs to be fixed. If a bug wipes out save data, this is broken and needs to be fixed. And for all the reasons I've listed above and many more I haven't even touched on for brevity, the ending is broken and needs to be fixed. If broken controls can be fixed, so can a broken story. 

And here was a great response posted by Tritium315

It's not about how video games differ from paintings or movies or whatever. It's about how commissioned art differs from personal art. As soon as an artist is paid for their art they lose the final say about how it should look. 

The Sistine chapel ceiling and David were not Michelangelo's pet projects, he was commissioned to do them. The patrons commissioned him because of his previous work and the expectations that work created. If he had royally ****ed up the pieces you can be damn sure the patrons would be upset and would expect him to redo them. 

[Someguyukno]

ramenbito wrote...

No matter the conclusion of this, I think we should be proud of how we came together and became support to each other, one thing this whole mess gave me is the people i have met during this and the knowledge that I was not alone.

No matter what I am standing here holding the line (and my wallet I suppose).

And I'll be Holding The Line (and my wallet) right there with you, for as long as it takes. This has grown into something more than a bunch of pissed off fans mad about an ending. We've done some real good, and I'll say it again, we are NOT done.

[ramenbito]

Someguyukno wrote...

ramenbito wrote...

No matter the conclusion of this, I think we should be proud of how we came together and became support to each other, one thing this whole mess gave me is the people i have met during this and the knowledge that I was not alone.

No matter what I am standing here holding the line (and my wallet I suppose).

And I'll be Holding The Line (and my wallet) right there with you, for as long as it takes. This has grown into something more than a bunch of pissed off fans mad about an ending. We've done some real good, and I'll say it again, we are NOT done.

Yep. We are not done at all, every pr just added more people to the retakers even after PAX while some people just quit Mass Effect more joined. It seems like we are just beginning and hopefully we will be successful.

[Lilaeth]

Well, as the old saying goes, if you don't ask, you don't get. We asked for an improvement in the endings. We've been promised something. Not sure that it'll be what some of us want, but we'll know soon enough. Hold the line until then.

[BladyMZ]

Holding The Line also caused a lot of people to belive, that the game is "99.9 % perfect but the ending ruined it", not remembering the tedious planet scanning, fetch quests, Face Import Bug, ME2 LI, Reaper Minigame, boring missions apart the main ones and the oh-so-many bugs in the game.

The forum was going (as still is...) at FTL speeds with people writing how EDNDIXS SUXXX and making other valid topics lost in the crowd...which is a shame. You can't really have a talk about the Catalyst without people going ape$%!7... so yeah, I had a blast with the Retake movement when it started, wanted the IT to be true, but it ISN'T, Im a veteran of Metal Gear Solid games, I know how deeply fan read into stuff. Yes, some of the fan theories turn out better than what the payed writers came up with.

They were never going to change the endings completely. All they could ever do was to add cutscenes, like CD Projekt is doing now for Witcher 2.

Bioware said they are making free additional cutscenes, they took our friggin book with 130 letters about ME2 LI (my letter included), what else do you want? Grow up, there is no medal for figthing a now-meaingless war. We all did good, but now you are just beeing silly.

Is Extended Cut going to be bad? We do not know. Maybe it will suck, maybe it won't. We will see, THEN voice our opinion. Fact remains:

The game came out. We all played it. My Shepard met the Catalyst. It is done.

Hackett out.

[Sir_Cabbage]

dont forget the fact tali was never rendered properly without her mask/suit, and instead was edited stock images o-o

[frozngecko]

@ Retake Movement: You did good. We're proud of you.

“You all know the mission, and what is at stake.
While this may not be our game, it is our Shepard!
Today, upset fans have asked for our help, and today, we will deliver.
In this war, we are all fans of the game, and there is no enemy we cannot defeat together. No threat we cannot neutralize. No challenge we cannot overcome.
Some day, when the RGB endings are just a memory, the fans of the forums will come together and remember this place, this very ground, and say, 'the Retake Movement was here'!
They did not fail!
They did not falter!
And they did not surrender!”

HOLD THE LINE.