210 réponses à ce sujet

[MOELANDER]

On thing zhat conxerns me iss zhat i drink wayymorre alcohol than befo ramonth.

[RukiaKuchki]

I totally respect the passion that everyone has for Mass Effect, and the fact that there was huge disappointment in the way the story concluded. I too was not completely satisfied with the unanswered questions and seeming abruptness of the ending. However, I could never join the 'Retake' movement because in all honesty, Mass Effect was never mine (or any of yours) in the first place so 'retaking' it was a misnomer. It was created by someone else, and I was merely a very active and very willing participant for the ride. The Retake objectives were never clear - some people wanted clarification, some people wanted a complete rewrite, some people just had a more devious agenda and took it as an opportunity to attack EA, creating a polarising 'us vs them' scenario which was never the case. Either way, the message seemed lost to me within days of the movement's inception. Additionally, the public perception of gamers may be damaged because of it. Members of the Retake movement believe that they are standing up for their rights - creative/consumer/moral whatever. This may well be the case, but from the outside it was incredibly bizarre behaviour, verging on a kind of self-perpetuating mass hysteria (excuse the pun!).

[DarkBladeX98]

Yeah. We held the line.
Now at least they are taking action, and its free. I'd call that an accomplishment for our group.

[Someguyukno]

BladyMZ wrote...

Imagine it worked. You get your 4GB patch with new endings, Harbinger arrives, talks about cycles and you Paragon him to death . Shepard walks out the Citadel, hugs Liara and everybody smiles. You get blue babies, Garrus surfing, Tali buliding a sweet white home with red doors.

Would that be a victory? Could you lie yourself into thinking it was in the game whole time, it was always your Shepards story?

Its like if you wanted to date some hot chick for a very long time. You write her poems, you buy her gifts. You stalk her for months, she rejects you every time, you lie to yourself that you could be happy together. Then, after months of pain, lies and dissrespect she agrees to go on a date with you, maybe just to shut you up. Yes, you would be happy at first, but later realise, it shouln'd be that way. That if you needed to fight for something for so long it is almost never worth it, because your expectations will never be met. You would always remember the times she made you cry. You could then dump her, meaning all you've done before was for nothing, or keep lying to yourself, that it was worth it. You choose. I pick the shy cute girl from the library...I mean Witcher 2

You make a good argument, but I don't agree with it. You are right in that whatever Bioware introduces will not feel entirely natural, as we will always know what was originally there. But that doesn't mean the effort shouldn't be made, as broken as the ending is. As I posted earlier, when controls are broken in a game, they're fixed. When a story is broken, it should be fixed. There are too many plot holes to ignore, and hopefully the EC will rectify many of our greivances. I know not everyone will be completely happy no matter what happens, but hopefully we can all find some level of closure in what will be provided. Until then, I, and whoeve will stand at my side, will continue to Hold The Line.

[Someguyukno]

braisbr1 wrote...

yesterday, I went out and I was talking to a friend about random things, and suddendly mass effect came into our minds. The only thing we had to say about it was - wow man, they really screwed it. Can you think of any worst endings?

And we couldn't, even we both love the saga.

So that's why I still hold the line, because I know every character in the Mass Effect universe deserves more than that.

Agreed, 100%. I consider the Mass Effect Trilogy better than the original Star Wars until the God Child makes his appearance. That's why I Hold The Line.

[Someguyukno]

Dominator24 wrote...

Hold The Line

I think we did more, achieved more, then anyone at the start thought we would do.
I fell proud to be a part of this movement. It shows that in unity there's great strength.

We are like the Shepards that banded together to fight the Impossible force(EA/Bioware) for what we thought was right.
And I think we should stant toghere till the end, no mater the cost.


Hold The Line

Then we have consensus. We Hold The Line, whatever it takes until the end.

[Twinzam.V]

Im still holding the line, but im wavering. I just dont know how long i can manage.
Sometimes i just look to the 3 ME games and wonder "Is it still worth it? I have my hopes pinned on some DLC that might bring vague answers while they throw some MP DLC while saying we care.".
I looked the trailer for "Legend of Grimrock" and thought "Man those where the good old days with those kind of games. No internet. Just a pencil, paper, lots of grinding and imagination (compared to nowadays there was only text or walking blocks).".................
Im getting too old for this. Need booze. Lots of it.

[Someguyukno]

ifritanshiva wrote...

I've been taking crap from people telling me that I should "get over it" and "make my peace with the ending" I've been told "they went the philosophical route with the ending, deal with it and shut up" I refuse to let them beat me down, I refuse to accept their take on things. I have my own opinions and I have the right to express them. So I say to those who tell me "accept it, there's nothing you can do", that I can do something, I will do something. I will step up and tell BW why I dislike the endings. I will refuse to just be quiet and go away. I will Hold The Line!!!!!!!!

Now this makes me proud! Mass Effect has given us so much, it's time we gave it something back. I'm right there with you to the end! Hold The Line!

[GimmeDaGun]

I feel a bit sick and tired of it all, but I think if we do things in the right way we still can make a good and accepatble compromise with Bioware and it's division which is responsible for the production of the Extended Cut.

Pushing the company to acknowledge the problem and do something about it in order to fix it (and I think they are not intent to half ass it and want as many of us back as possible, so they will try to make it right - I hope) and the fact that we could do it in such a tasteful, organised and friendly manner (not to mention the charity work we've done and still do in the mean time) is a great achievement in itself. So there's a lot to be proud of!

So, lets keep holding the line and lets try and work together with Bioware on as great an ending as possible!

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 08 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[Grimskull89]

BladyMZ wrote...

Imagine it worked. You get your 4GB patch with new endings, Harbinger arrives, talks about cycles and you Paragon him to death . Shepard walks out the Citadel, hugs Liara and everybody smiles. You get blue babies, Garrus surfing, Tali buliding a sweet white home with red doors.

Would that be a victory? Could you lie yourself into thinking it was in the game whole time, it was always your Shepards story?

The amount of plotholes that occur with the current ending are growing every day. I created a thread just today that suggest that if Shepard dies with the destroy ending, Garrus dies as well. Garrus has cybernetics that are keeping him alive as well after he had that close encounter with a rocket in ME2.

If that one doesn't bother you, consider this... the catalyst tells you that the citadel is part of him. Why are the keepers necessary in activating the citadel to allow the reapers to use it as a mass relay? This goes against the plot established in ME1.

Hey they change the ending, like actually rework the ending and play on things that were previously established within the ME universe I will consider it a victory.

Modifié par Grimskull89, 08 avril 2012 - 01:32 .

[Someguyukno]

RukiaKuchki wrote...

I totally respect the passion that everyone has for Mass Effect, and the fact that there was huge disappointment in the way the story concluded. I too was not completely satisfied with the unanswered questions and seeming abruptness of the ending. However, I could never join the 'Retake' movement because in all honesty, Mass Effect was never mine (or any of yours) in the first place so 'retaking' it was a misnomer. It was created by someone else, and I was merely a very active and very willing participant for the ride. The Retake objectives were never clear - some people wanted clarification, some people wanted a complete rewrite, some people just had a more devious agenda and took it as an opportunity to attack EA, creating a polarising 'us vs them' scenario which was never the case. Either way, the message seemed lost to me within days of the movement's inception. Additionally, the public perception of gamers may be damaged because of it. Members of the Retake movement believe that they are standing up for their rights - creative/consumer/moral whatever. This may well be the case, but from the outside it was incredibly bizarre behaviour, verging on a kind of self-perpetuating mass hysteria (excuse the pun!).

Thank you for posting, and I completely understand where you're coming from. I'd like to show you where I'm coming from. Here's a post in a forum I started yesterday.

I hate how people keep tossing around the words "Artistic Integrity" when defending the Mass Effect 3 ending. I'm not saying this out of spite, I'm stating that this defense does not measure up.

Video games, and Mass Effect in particular, differ from films and paintings in one key way: interactivity. This is KEY in the Mass Effect trilogy. This isn't just Bioware's story, this is OUR Shepard's story, each different and each with different consequences. Bioware has essentially built a tool to tell a story in a fixed universe, and we shape that story through our choices. This is the basis for the Mass Effect universe.

To illustrate, let's compare the ending choices from Mass Effect 2 and 3. In 2, there are only 2 different choices, less than in 3. But those two choices, preserve or destroy the base, each fulfill every person's choice. There is no other option, and we feel the impact of the choice when talking with the Illusive Man later. Mass Effect 3 has 3 endings, but they don't encompass all of our choices that should be available. Some people say that they should simply refuse the God Child's options and let the battle play out based on War Assets. This, combined with continuity issues and plot holes, make up the reasons for why the Mass Effect 3 ending is broken.

Now back to Artistic Integrity. Why does this not apply? Simple: when something is broken in a game, it needs to be fixed. If the controls don't work, this needs to be fixed. If a bug wipes out save data, this is broken and needs to be fixed. And for all the reasons I've listed above and many more I haven't even touched on for brevity, the ending is broken and needs to be fixed. If broken controls can be fixed, so can a broken story. 

And here's a great reply expanding on this from Tritium315

It's not about how video games differ from paintings or movies or whatever. It's about how commissioned art differs from personal art. As soon as an artist is paid for their art they lose the final say about how it should look. 

The Sistine chapel ceiling and David were not Michelangelo's pet projects, he was commissioned to do them. The patrons commissioned him because of his previous work and the expectations that work created. If he had royally ****ed up the pieces you can be damn sure the patrons would be upset and would expect him to redo them. 

This is my opinion, and this is why I Hold The Line.

[Someguyukno]

DarkBladeX98 wrote...

Yeah. We held the line.
Now at least they are taking action, and its free. I'd call that an accomplishment for our group.

As Tali, said, it's a start.

[LolaLei]

I know we didn't quite get what were aiming for but we managed to kick up enough attention for the world to sit up and take notice at least.

... I'm hoping that even if we don't get a satisfying conclusion to Shepard's story at least companies will think twice before pulling another stunt like this on their fans.

[Someguyukno]

Twinzam.V wrote...

Im still holding the line, but im wavering. I just dont know how long i can manage.
Sometimes i just look to the 3 ME games and wonder "Is it still worth it? I have my hopes pinned on some DLC that might bring vague answers while they throw some MP DLC while saying we care.".
I looked the trailer for "Legend of Grimrock" and thought "Man those where the good old days with those kind of games. No internet. Just a pencil, paper, lots of grinding and imagination (compared to nowadays there was only text or walking blocks).".................
Im getting too old for this. Need booze. Lots of it.

it's been one month, and a lot of us are getting tired. We've stood for so long, but finally something has happened. I hope it was worth all the effort. Have a stiff one, and don't forget the emergency induction port.

[Aidan Rhane]

We expect better. That’s the message I take (ha!) from the Retake movement. We know you can do better and we expect better from you. And why shouldn’t we expect better – not just as consumers, but as gamers, as fans of this medium? Does this attitude make us ‘entitled’? If it does, I don’t see that as a bad thing. Striving to improve is a good thing, it’s what challenges and motivates us to do better.

I see Retake as a great compliment to Bioware. People care about these games. They care about these stories and these characters. They care enough to get angry – and that’s a rare thing. It shows Bioware succeeded where so many other storytellers fail – in any medium. They made us care.

Games, traditionally you might say, have disappointing endings, but most of  the time we just shrug and accept it. So why not now? In fact, why didn’t we see this coming? When it’s the norm for games to present us with a lacklustre ending, why did we expect ME3 to be any different? It’s because we cared. It’s because of the quality of what came before. Bioware set their own high standards in an industry with low standards when it comes to characterisation, plot and resolution. We expected better of them, it really is that simple.

So why not just shrug it off? It’s just a video game, right? I shrugged off the crappy ending to Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I shrugged off the crappy final boss fight in Bioshock, a game often lauded in the 'are games art' debate. I shrugged off the lacklustre final sequence of my favourite game ever – System Shock  2. So why not this?

Well, why should we? ME is special because it made us care, but why should we shrug off any game with a crappy ending? For me, Retake represents a shift in gamers expectations. We’ve become a more discerning audience and I think that’s a great thing for gaming. We’re becoming less content to just sit back and say, ‘well, that was disappointing, what will I play next?’ We see, where perhaps developers and publishers sadly do not, the potential for this medium and how it can improve and evolve.

Now, I’ve seen some bloggers and even people within the industry suggest that if Bioware change or alter the ending it will, in some unexplained way ‘set back’ gaming. But ‘set back’ in the eyes of who? Whose validation are they seeking? Isn’t it ours? You know, their fans and customers? Ordo they seek the approval of...I don’t know, Roger Ebert perhaps? Why should we care how critics of other art forms judge the gaming industry? Games aren’t films, books or paintings. Games are games and they shouldn’t try to be anything else. If gaming truly is an evolving art form, then there are no rules – why should we apply arbitrary and subjective rules established for other mediums to gaming?

To Summarise -

1) Retake is a welcome reminder that gamers are passionate about this industry and desire to see it raise its standards.
2) Retake and Biowares/EA's reaction and handling of it (free content - from EA? - the mind boggles!) WILL be considered by other Developers and Publishers in the future. Maybe they'll start to wake up and realise we're not going to continue passively lapping up everything they churn out as quickly as they can. We appreciate and expect quality for our money.
3) Some of the major gaming sites that were so critical, even downright rude, to Retake already seem to slowly be backtracking on their words. This whole fiasco has really served to highlight the serious disconnect between gamers and the so called 'professional' critics. They'll have to do a lot to win back trust, if they can indeed win it back at all.

Overall, Retake has a lot to be proud of and maybe it is a welcome kick up the backside for the gaming industry that seems to be increasingly out of touch with its own customers.

Modifié par Aidan Rhane, 08 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[LolaLei]

Grimskull89 wrote...

BladyMZ wrote...

Imagine it worked. You get your 4GB patch with new endings, Harbinger arrives, talks about cycles and you Paragon him to death . Shepard walks out the Citadel, hugs Liara and everybody smiles. You get blue babies, Garrus surfing, Tali buliding a sweet white home with red doors.

Would that be a victory? Could you lie yourself into thinking it was in the game whole time, it was always your Shepards story?

The amount of plotholes that occur with the current ending are growing every day. I created a thread just today that suggest that if Shepard dies with the destroy ending, Garrus dies as well. Garrus has cybernetics that are keeping him alive as well after he had that close encounter with a rocket in ME2.

If that one doesn't bother you, consider this... the catalyst tells you that the citadel is part of him. Why are the keepers necessary in activating the citadel to allow the reapers to use it as a mass relay? This goes against the plot established in ME1.

Hey they change the ending, like actually rework the ending and play on things that were previously established within the ME universe I will consider it a victory.

****, I hadn't even considered Garrus' cybernetics, like hell am I letting him die! Though apparently according to that unofficial Patrick Weekes interview he said that EDI does survive the blast, which in theory means that the Geth do too. We know Shepard can survive so that also means Garrus survives.

... Stoopid plotholes.

[Someguyukno]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

I feel a bit sick and tired of it all, but I think if we do things in the right way we still can make a good and accepatble compromise with Bioware and it's division which is responsible for the production of the Extended Cut.

Pushing the company to acknowledge the problem and do something about it in order to fix it (and I think they are not intent to half ass it and want as many of us back as possible, so they will try to make it right - I hope) and the fact that we could do it in such a tasteful, organised and friendly manner (not to mention the charity work we've done and still do in the mean time) is a great achievement in itself. So there's a lot to be proud of!

So, lets keep holding the line and lets try and work together with Bioware on as great an ending as possible!

This is the kind of attitude I love to see in the Retake Movement. It's been a long haul, and none of us are coming out without scars. But it all comes down to this. We've united and brought together people from all over the world to make our voices heard, and it's working. We've made ourselves proud today, ladies and gentlemen. Good work.

[MOELANDER]

MOELANDER wrote...

On thing zhat conxerns me iss zhat i drink wayymorre alcohol than befo ramonth.

Sorry about this we put my big brother to bed now. It's only 15:36 here in Germany. But in our family drinking is part of Easter Sunday. He will be back tomorrow or later this night. I have taken his Laptop for the while before he writes something really stupid.

[AlexMBrennan]

and we still don't know if our efforts will bear fruit.

We do know that they won't. Bioware is taking a stand and sticking to their artistic vision - apparently they don't like money.

[Grimskull89]

LolaLei wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

BladyMZ wrote...

Imagine it worked. You get your 4GB patch with new endings, Harbinger arrives, talks about cycles and you Paragon him to death . Shepard walks out the Citadel, hugs Liara and everybody smiles. You get blue babies, Garrus surfing, Tali buliding a sweet white home with red doors.

Would that be a victory? Could you lie yourself into thinking it was in the game whole time, it was always your Shepards story?

The amount of plotholes that occur with the current ending are growing every day. I created a thread just today that suggest that if Shepard dies with the destroy ending, Garrus dies as well. Garrus has cybernetics that are keeping him alive as well after he had that close encounter with a rocket in ME2.

If that one doesn't bother you, consider this... the catalyst tells you that the citadel is part of him. Why are the keepers necessary in activating the citadel to allow the reapers to use it as a mass relay? This goes against the plot established in ME1.

Hey they change the ending, like actually rework the ending and play on things that were previously established within the ME universe I will consider it a victory.

****, I hadn't even considered Garrus' cybernetics, like hell am I letting him die! Though apparently according to that unofficial Patrick Weekes interview he said that EDI does survive the blast, which in theory means that the Geth do too. We know Shepard can survive so that also means Garrus survives.

... Stoopid plotholes.

I know.. I am sorry for making that known to the world. However, he only does in one ending, and lives in the other two. So he has a better chance of surviving than Shepard... which is odd but I will take it. I played ME3 with the mindset that Shepard might die, I accepted that and still do. The rest of the ending however needs more work....

[Someguyukno]

LolaLei wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

BladyMZ wrote...

Imagine it worked. You get your 4GB patch with new endings, Harbinger arrives, talks about cycles and you Paragon him to death . Shepard walks out the Citadel, hugs Liara and everybody smiles. You get blue babies, Garrus surfing, Tali buliding a sweet white home with red doors.

Would that be a victory? Could you lie yourself into thinking it was in the game whole time, it was always your Shepards story?

The amount of plotholes that occur with the current ending are growing every day. I created a thread just today that suggest that if Shepard dies with the destroy ending, Garrus dies as well. Garrus has cybernetics that are keeping him alive as well after he had that close encounter with a rocket in ME2.

If that one doesn't bother you, consider this... the catalyst tells you that the citadel is part of him. Why are the keepers necessary in activating the citadel to allow the reapers to use it as a mass relay? This goes against the plot established in ME1.

Hey they change the ending, like actually rework the ending and play on things that were previously established within the ME universe I will consider it a victory.

****, I hadn't even considered Garrus' cybernetics, like hell am I letting him die! Though apparently according to that unofficial Patrick Weekes interview he said that EDI does survive the blast, which in theory means that the Geth do too. We know Shepard can survive so that also means Garrus survives.

... Stoopid plotholes.

There's more than that. What about biotics, and Quarians who have implants to interface with their suits? if they die, then the geth/quarian conflict would be ENTIRELY POINTLESS!!

[Grimskull89]

MOELANDER wrote...

MOELANDER wrote...

On thing zhat conxerns me iss zhat i drink wayymorre alcohol than befo ramonth.

Sorry about this we put my big brother to bed now. It's only 15:36 here in Germany. But in our family drinking is part of Easter Sunday. He will be back tomorrow or later this night. I have taken his Laptop for the while before he writes something really stupid.

Thank you, was getting worried about him... posted in another thread and I told him in there to go to bed!

[Someguyukno]

MOELANDER wrote...

MOELANDER wrote...

On thing zhat conxerns me iss zhat i drink wayymorre alcohol than befo ramonth.

Sorry about this we put my big brother to bed now. It's only 15:36 here in Germany. But in our family drinking is part of Easter Sunday. He will be back tomorrow or later this night. I have taken his Laptop for the while before he writes something really stupid.

Love it! It's currently 6:44 over here in Washington State, U.S....in the morning. Yeah, this forum's kinda kept my attention. ^.^

[Someguyukno]

LolaLei wrote...

I know we didn't quite get what were aiming for but we managed to kick up enough attention for the world to sit up and take notice at least.

... I'm hoping that even if we don't get a satisfying conclusion to Shepard's story at least companies will think twice before pulling another stunt like this on their fans.

That we most certainly did. Hopefully it'll change some things for the better.

[Grimskull89]

Someguyukno wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

BladyMZ wrote...

Imagine it worked. You get your 4GB patch with new endings, Harbinger arrives, talks about cycles and you Paragon him to death . Shepard walks out the Citadel, hugs Liara and everybody smiles. You get blue babies, Garrus surfing, Tali buliding a sweet white home with red doors.

Would that be a victory? Could you lie yourself into thinking it was in the game whole time, it was always your Shepards story?

The amount of plotholes that occur with the current ending are growing every day. I created a thread just today that suggest that if Shepard dies with the destroy ending, Garrus dies as well. Garrus has cybernetics that are keeping him alive as well after he had that close encounter with a rocket in ME2.

If that one doesn't bother you, consider this... the catalyst tells you that the citadel is part of him. Why are the keepers necessary in activating the citadel to allow the reapers to use it as a mass relay? This goes against the plot established in ME1.

Hey they change the ending, like actually rework the ending and play on things that were previously established within the ME universe I will consider it a victory.

****, I hadn't even considered Garrus' cybernetics, like hell am I letting him die! Though apparently according to that unofficial Patrick Weekes interview he said that EDI does survive the blast, which in theory means that the Geth do too. We know Shepard can survive so that also means Garrus survives.

... Stoopid plotholes.

There's more than that. What about biotics, and Quarians who have implants to interface with their suits? if they die, then the geth/quarian conflict would be ENTIRELY POINTLESS!!

Others have suggested the same about implants and quarians, I fear that thread got lost. I am a little more focused on Shepard and Garrus, as I feel it might be stretching this particular plothole too far.

Though implants are still synthetic in nature.. and the implications are nasty.

Just another reason to hate the ending eh?