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[nightcobra]

arcelonious wrote...

MortalEngines wrote...

I agree, in fact, in my original comment, I was only making a brief suggestion as to a possible reason for the character being in Orlais. I in no way think that it's the most likely though, Bioware will likely come up with either a select number of origins to choose from (doubt it though, I'm sure that the whole origins device is a gimmick reserved for the DA:O game) or contrive a scenerio like in Dragon Age 2. I don't mind either to be fair as long as it makes sense and the contrived scenerio isn't TOO contrived (if that makes any sense ).

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm personally hoping that the three main archetypes (i.e., mage, rogue, and warrior) each have an origin of their own, as well as playthroughs that differ dramatically.

For example, let's say that DA3 is indeed in Orlais.  The mage archetype playthrough could pit the player in events closer to the activities of the magi rebels in Orlais.  In contrast, a warrior playthrough might have you initially more aligned with seekers or templars.  Finally, the rogue archetype may occupy a more neutral vantage point, perhaps as an Orlesian citizen.

Understandably, doing something like this could potentially be developmentally more time consuming than the simple origins approach in DA:O so I doubt the possibility, but one can always hope.

Edit: Omitted references to Asunder, as I forgot that I was in a no spoiler forum.

edit:posted this in another topic but i think it's relevant to your post.

some people won't like this idea but how about this?



a reversed funnel type of class choice for the player character (has magic potential but can choose to train as a warrior or rogue while supressing the innate magic talent or using it to improve the other 2 classes or maybe just concentrating on the mage aspect. the party members would be one of the 3 classes like in previous DA games.

imagine kingdom's of amalur leveling system and you get pretty much the gist of what i'm talking about.
you could pick abilities from the 3 trees (warrior/rogue/mage) and depending on how much points you put into the trees you could then select a specialization tree:

true warrior 
true mage
true rogue
warrior/rogue hybrid
warrior/mage hybrid
mage/rogue hybrid
jack of all trades

[MortalEngines]

nightcobra8928 wrote...
edit:posted this in another topic but i think it's relevant to your post.

some people won't like this idea but how about this?



a reversed funnel type of class choice for the player character (has magic potential but can choose to train as a warrior or rogue while supressing the innate magic talent or using it to improve the other 2 classes or maybe just concentrating on the mage aspect. the party members would be one of the 3 classes like in previous DA games.

imagine kingdom's of amalur leveling system and you get pretty much the gist of what i'm talking about.
you could pick abilities from the 3 trees (warrior/rogue/mage) and depending on how much points you put into the trees you could then select a specialization tree:

true warrior 
true mage
true rogue
warrior/rogue hybrid
warrior/mage hybrid
mage/rogue hybrid
jack of all trades

I understand your idea. This idea is used in alot of games (such as Fable 3), where your character has the ability to be any class and you can pick and mix. However, I don't think that's optimal for the DA world because it doesn't allow the character not to be a mage in a lore sense. So others will always react to you as if you were a mage because you are.

To expand, in the dragon age world having a magical ability is more than just casting off spells. It's being able to enter the fade, demons, all that jazz. When you have a character who is always a mage, you either take away the importance of these things by having them not mentioned, or force the player to be a mage and carry this baggage. Which stops them from being someone who hates mages or fears them for example. Because you are a mage and it would be hypocritical to fear/hate them. It expands your choice in a RP/Gameplay sense but in story and lore, it limits you or downplays certain aspects.

If that made any sense. 

[nightcobra]

MortalEngines wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...
edit:posted this in another topic but i think it's relevant to your post.

some people won't like this idea but how about this?



a reversed funnel type of class choice for the player character (has magic potential but can choose to train as a warrior or rogue while supressing the innate magic talent or using it to improve the other 2 classes or maybe just concentrating on the mage aspect. the party members would be one of the 3 classes like in previous DA games.

imagine kingdom's of amalur leveling system and you get pretty much the gist of what i'm talking about.
you could pick abilities from the 3 trees (warrior/rogue/mage) and depending on how much points you put into the trees you could then select a specialization tree:

true warrior 
true mage
true rogue
warrior/rogue hybrid
warrior/mage hybrid
mage/rogue hybrid
jack of all trades

I understand your idea. This idea is used in alot of games (such as Fable 3), where your character has the ability to be any class and you can pick and mix. However, I don't think that's optimal for the DA world because it doesn't allow the character not to be a mage in a lore sense. So others will always react to you as if you were a mage because you are.

To expand, in the dragon age world having a magical ability is more than just casting off spells. It's being able to enter the fade, demons, all that jazz. When you have a character who is always a mage, you either take away the importance of these things by having them not mentioned, or force the player to be a mage and carry this baggage. Which stops them from being someone who hates mages or fears them for example. Because you are a mage and it would be hypocritical to fear/hate them. It expands your choice in a RP/Gameplay sense but in story and lore, it limits you or downplays certain aspects.

If that made any sense. 

by refusing to use magic and just specing in other abilities you pretty much are supressing your own magic potential, a lack of magic abilities in the character could be a flag for the game to recognize this status making npcs react to you as if you're a non-mage and we've already seen mages that would rather not be born with their power, in previous DA games such a build would be impossible has you have to want to pick the mage class if you want to be a mage.
flags activated by the majority of abilities or lack thereof could be the next step of what we saw of flags concerning specializations where certain events were different if you were a spirit healer or bloodmage for example.

it's more of a trade-off really, it may limit in the ways you said but it can also expand in others as well as making it easier to incorporate in the earlier parts of the plot and diverging as you go along your path choices.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 08 avril 2012 - 04:30 .

[MortalEngines]

nightcobra8928 wrote...
by refusing to use magic and just specing in other abilities you pretty much are supressing your own magic potential, a lack of magic abilities in the character could be a flag for the game to recognize this status making npcs react to you as if you're a non-mage and we've already seen mages that would rather not be born with their power, in previous DA games such a build would be impossible has you have to want to pick the mage class if you want to be a mage.
flags activated by the majority of abilities or lack thereof could be the next step of what we saw of flags concerning specializations where certain events were different if you were a spirit healer or bloodmage for example.

I think you're missing the point somewhat. Yeah it is technically possible to not use your magic abilities. But it impossible (lore-wise) to suppress your own magic, unless you become a tranquil. Regardless of whether you use your magic at all, you will still be suspectable to demons, you will still have things out of your control (magic use when angry). You cannot simply turn off your magic and become a normal person, that's not how it works.

Otherwise all those people who would rather not be born with the power would of definately 'supressed' their magic. This concept doesn't work in the DA lore and if it was used, we cheapen the idea of mages being a oppressed people simply for existing as they could, if your system was used 'supress' themselves. It would also remove the aspect of you being a mage changing your upbringing and backstory. For example, there are many little differences in DA2 in your backstory if your Hawke is mage, outside of the other in-game differences. 

[nightcobra]

MortalEngines wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...
by refusing to use magic and just specing in other abilities you pretty much are supressing your own magic potential, a lack of magic abilities in the character could be a flag for the game to recognize this status making npcs react to you as if you're a non-mage and we've already seen mages that would rather not be born with their power, in previous DA games such a build would be impossible has you have to want to pick the mage class if you want to be a mage.
flags activated by the majority of abilities or lack thereof could be the next step of what we saw of flags concerning specializations where certain events were different if you were a spirit healer or bloodmage for example.

I think you're missing the point somewhat. Yeah it is technically possible to not use your magic abilities. But it impossible (lore-wise) to suppress your own magic, unless you become a tranquil. Regardless of whether you use your magic at all, you will still be suspectable to demons, you will still have things out of your control (magic use when angry). You cannot simply turn off your magic and become a normal person, that's not how it works.

Otherwise all those people who would rather not be born with the power would of definately 'supressed' their magic. This concept doesn't work in the DA lore and if it was used, we cheapen the idea of mages being a oppressed people simply for existing as they could, if your system was used 'supress' themselves. It would also remove the aspect of you being a mage changing your upbringing and backstory. For example, there are many little differences in DA2 in your backstory if your Hawke is mage, outside of the other in-game differences. 

that could be explained as an integral part of your character.
let's see if i can explain myself clearly...remember fenris? his lyrium marks were basically what enabled magic use in him. now consider this...it could be possible for something similar to happen to your character.
in DA1 you went through the joining to become a grey warden, what if at the end of DA3's prologue you undergo a experiment/ritual or something that makes you a mana battery much like how gems could make shale one.
this is just an idea however so i don't expect bioware to actually go through with something like this.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 08 avril 2012 - 04:43 .

[MortalEngines]

nightcobra8928 wrote...
that could be explained as an integral part of your character.
let's see if i can explain myself clearly...remember fenris? his lyrium marks were basically what enabled magic use in him. now consider this...it could be possible for something similar to happen to your character.
in DA1 you went through the joining to become a grey warden, what if at the end of DA3's prologue you undergo a experiment/ritual or something that makes you a mana battery much like how gems could make shale one.
this is just an idea however so i don't expect bioware to actually go through with something like this.

I understand it's an idea, I was just pointing out what I thought wrong with it. . Your idea of a Fenris-esque ritual is cool but there is a distinct difference between that and becoming a Grey Warden. Beinga grey warden is a necessity, not a choice and the reason the player is railroaded into it, is because it's the only way to stop a blight (and be involved in one). However, this is about mage and templar conflict. I don't see how taking part in some weird experiment ritual that makes you a mage hybrid is a necessity in solving the conflict.

[nightcobra]

MortalEngines wrote...

I understand it's an idea, I was just pointing out what I thought wrong with it. . Your idea of a Fenris-esque ritual is cool but there is a distinct difference between that and becoming a Grey Warden. Beinga grey warden is a necessity, not a choice and the reason the player is railroaded into it, is because it's the only way to stop a blight (and be involved in one). However, this is about mage and templar conflict. I don't see how taking part in some weird experiment ritual that makes you a mage hybrid is a necessity in solving the conflict.

we know that the chantry uses lyrium to make templars, templars use a kind of magic to combat mages that much we already know.
how about if the chantry is trying to come up with the next iteration of templar due to the now total war between mages/templars and you're kidnapped and used as a lab rat.
would you still forgive the ones who did this to you (if the ones responsible only did this to protect the people from what they think is the menace of mages) or would you rebel agaisnt them and join the mages cause, or do you use these new found powers for your personal gain, or even yet do you refuse to use them if you find the notion of magic abhorrent?

just a few things out the top of my head. 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 08 avril 2012 - 05:05 .

[lx_theo]

Honestly, I don't want my PC to have a Orlesian/French accent. That would be a bit much.

[Melca36]

I don't think the hero will be Orlesian. There would be too much of a backlash because of the accent.

I do think we will be getting Orlesian companions though.

[Hexedcoder]

lx_theo wrote...

Honestly, I don't want my PC to have a Orlesian/French accent. That would be a bit much.

If this does wind up being the case, then the Charlegmane cycle, Amadis de Gaula, and anything by Alexander Dumas need to be shamelessly ripped off.

And I mean SHAMELESSLY.

Like, go on some adventure find some diamond for Emperess Celine I to cover up an affair (actual or imagined) between her and Alistar which was discovered by the Chantry when they stole one of the diamonds as evidence while facing murderers, villians, annoying unkillable prats who want to duel you, Templars or Seekers trying to stop you, and the wanton drunkedness and occasional incompetence of yourself and your allies.

Melca36 wrote...

I don't think the hero will be Orlesian. There would be too much of a backlash because of the accent.

I do think we will be getting Orlesian companions though.

Why not, this game is made in Canada.  I here there are plenty of French people up there...well maybe not real French people, but they speak something called French (Even if people who claim to be real La Marseillaise singing French people disagree with them) and maybe they could provide more genuine and less silly accents/language.

Modifié par Hexedcoder, 08 avril 2012 - 06:27 .

[Mermaid Claire]

I vote yes toward playing an Orlesian hero complete with accent and all! If we aren't playing Hawke, I want an experience vastly different and being from Orlais sounds fantastic.

[Rorschachinstein]

ONLY in Orlais? shouldn't the world take place in any Chantry heavy area? Think of all the other things you could see as well

We all know the Mage-Templar war will be the A story. But isn't the Darkspawn going through some changes the overall B story that should take place in the Anderfels?

[WardenWade]

Rorschachinstein wrote...

ONLY in Orlais? shouldn't the world take place in any Chantry heavy area? Think of all the other things you could see as well

We all know the Mage-Templar war will be the A story. But isn't the Darkspawn going through some changes the overall B story that should take place in the Anderfels?

Regarding the bolded portion, I would love that

[esper]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

MortalEngines wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...
by refusing to use magic and just specing in other abilities you pretty much are supressing your own magic potential, a lack of magic abilities in the character could be a flag for the game to recognize this status making npcs react to you as if you're a non-mage and we've already seen mages that would rather not be born with their power, in previous DA games such a build would be impossible has you have to want to pick the mage class if you want to be a mage.
flags activated by the majority of abilities or lack thereof could be the next step of what we saw of flags concerning specializations where certain events were different if you were a spirit healer or bloodmage for example.

I think you're missing the point somewhat. Yeah it is technically possible to not use your magic abilities. But it impossible (lore-wise) to suppress your own magic, unless you become a tranquil. Regardless of whether you use your magic at all, you will still be suspectable to demons, you will still have things out of your control (magic use when angry). You cannot simply turn off your magic and become a normal person, that's not how it works.

Otherwise all those people who would rather not be born with the power would of definately 'supressed' their magic. This concept doesn't work in the DA lore and if it was used, we cheapen the idea of mages being a oppressed people simply for existing as they could, if your system was used 'supress' themselves. It would also remove the aspect of you being a mage changing your upbringing and backstory. For example, there are many little differences in DA2 in your backstory if your Hawke is mage, outside of the other in-game differences. 

that could be explained as an integral part of your character.
let's see if i can explain myself clearly...remember fenris? his lyrium marks were basically what enabled magic use in him. now consider this...it could be possible for something similar to happen to your character.
in DA1 you went through the joining to become a grey warden, what if at the end of DA3's prologue you undergo a experiment/ritual or something that makes you a mana battery much like how gems could make shale one.
this is just an idea however so i don't expect bioware to actually go through with something like this.

If you are a mage, you are a mage. You cannot be something else because the world of Thedas see you as a mage.
Fenris does not have magical ablitlies per se... He hast enchanted abilities that is tied solely to lyrium, but he cannot cast any real spell from one of the known school nor does he walk in the Fade awake when he dreams. Therefore he is not a mage. The closest thing we have got was a spirit warrior in da:a, who was still a warrior. Even if it litterary was a spirit in someones body.

[nightcobra]

esper wrote...


If you are a mage, you are a mage. You cannot be something else because the world of Thedas see you as a mage.
Fenris does not have magical ablitlies per se... He hast enchanted abilities that is tied solely to lyrium, but he cannot cast any real spell from one of the known school nor does he walk in the Fade awake when he dreams. Therefore he is not a mage. The closest thing we have got was a spirit warrior in da:a, who was still a warrior. Even if it litterary was a spirit in someones body.

continue reading my posts below the one you quoted;)

templars actually use magic due to ingesting lyrium as david gaider confirmed himself, so i'm just extrapolating scenarios that fit into the lore and give a logical reason to my idea, nothing more nothing less.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 08 avril 2012 - 08:48 .

[esper]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

esper wrote...


If you are a mage, you are a mage. You cannot be something else because the world of Thedas see you as a mage.
Fenris does not have magical ablitlies per se... He hast enchanted abilities that is tied solely to lyrium, but he cannot cast any real spell from one of the known school nor does he walk in the Fade awake when he dreams. Therefore he is not a mage. The closest thing we have got was a spirit warrior in da:a, who was still a warrior. Even if it litterary was a spirit in someones body.

continue reading my posts below 

templars actually use magic due to ingesting lyrium as david gaider confirmed himself, so i'm just extrapolating scenarios that fit into the lore and give a logical reason to my idea, nothing more nothing less.

No, not really. They use magic-like abilities, but it is not magic. It is lyrium enchanted abilities at best or simply strong will power with special training. They will never be able to cast spells from say the creations school to heal somebody because they just don't have that connection to the Fade. And they are still not a mage/warrior hybrid. They will never be able to cast spells, just simulate magic-like superhuman abilities.  

A mage has a connection to the Fade that allows them to be aware in the Fade without being forced in there. If you have that you're a mage. If you don't you're not a mage.

[nightcobra]

esper wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

esper wrote...


If you are a mage, you are a mage. You cannot be something else because the world of Thedas see you as a mage.
Fenris does not have magical ablitlies per se... He hast enchanted abilities that is tied solely to lyrium, but he cannot cast any real spell from one of the known school nor does he walk in the Fade awake when he dreams. Therefore he is not a mage. The closest thing we have got was a spirit warrior in da:a, who was still a warrior. Even if it litterary was a spirit in someones body.

continue reading my posts below 

templars actually use magic due to ingesting lyrium as david gaider confirmed himself, so i'm just extrapolating scenarios that fit into the lore and give a logical reason to my idea, nothing more nothing less.

No, not really. They use magic-like abilities, but it is not magic. It is lyrium enchanted abilities at best or simply strong will power with special training. They will never be able to cast spells from say the creations school to heal somebody because they just don't have that connection to the Fade. And they are still not a mage/warrior hybrid. They will never be able to cast spells, just simulate magic-like superhuman abilities.  

A mage has a connection to the Fade that allows them to be aware in the Fade without being forced in there. If you have that you're a mage. If you don't you're not a mage.

normal templar maybe, but i'm not talking about those.
it could be possible to work in using existing lore a way to grant magic potential in the main character in the way i stated as a mix shale gem's experiments/ fenris markings/templar abilities/ spirit possessions and maybe a bit of blood magic to the mix as well why not. it's not impossible to find a way to make such a thing work if it's explained well using current and maybe a bit of new lore.
i remember people saying fenris would be braindead due to the lyrium markings exposure. 

[Maria Caliban]

MortalEngines wrote...

When you have a character who is always a mage, you either take away the importance of these things by having them not mentioned, or force the player to be a mage and carry this baggage. Which stops them from being someone who hates mages or fears them for example. Because you are a mage and it would be hypocritical to fear/hate them.

Disagree. A mage who fears other mages is a rational person. Mages are dangerous, and no one knows that more than another mage. As for hating mages, that makes sense as well. If you just want to live a normal life and not hurt anyone, the mages that go around doing blood magic, making deals with demons, and controlling others are the ones that make it impossible.

[esper]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

esper wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

esper wrote...


If you are a mage, you are a mage. You cannot be something else because the world of Thedas see you as a mage.
Fenris does not have magical ablitlies per se... He hast enchanted abilities that is tied solely to lyrium, but he cannot cast any real spell from one of the known school nor does he walk in the Fade awake when he dreams. Therefore he is not a mage. The closest thing we have got was a spirit warrior in da:a, who was still a warrior. Even if it litterary was a spirit in someones body.

continue reading my posts below 

templars actually use magic due to ingesting lyrium as david gaider confirmed himself, so i'm just extrapolating scenarios that fit into the lore and give a logical reason to my idea, nothing more nothing less.

No, not really. They use magic-like abilities, but it is not magic. It is lyrium enchanted abilities at best or simply strong will power with special training. They will never be able to cast spells from say the creations school to heal somebody because they just don't have that connection to the Fade. And they are still not a mage/warrior hybrid. They will never be able to cast spells, just simulate magic-like superhuman abilities.  

A mage has a connection to the Fade that allows them to be aware in the Fade without being forced in there. If you have that you're a mage. If you don't you're not a mage.

normal templar maybe, but i'm not talking about those.
it could be possible to work in using existing lore a way to grant magic potential in the main character in the way i stated as a mix shale gem's experiments/ fenris markings/templar abilities/ spirit possessions and maybe a bit of blood magic to the mix as well why not. it's not impossible to find a way to make such a thing work if it's explained well using current and maybe a bit of new lore.
i remember people saying fenris would be braindead due to the lyrium markings exposure. 

Yeah, spirits have the bodies abilities + perhaps a little more if they are like pride demons and can twist the body to their desire. Else they have the abilities the mortal body knew (look at the undead and all other possession).
Shale was already a magical creature, Wilhem just enchanted the golem repicie.
I see no reason to make as a fatal twist on the lore with the sole expection of creation a special snow flake characther and the characther would still not be a mage, but just someone who would go insane after three seconds to do over exposure to lyrium, blood magic. demons, spirits and who know how else you would throw in there. There is no reason to make such a special snow flake characther and I do not see the fun of playing one when the rest of the world is not going to follow by those rules as well.

I want the rest of the 'human' characthers to have the abilities my team have, I do not want my player characther to be someone so screwed and special from the get go. Them being the player characther already makes it bad enough in term of equality to the rest of the world.

[nightcobra]

esper wrote...

Yeah, spirits have the bodies abilities + perhaps a little more if they are like pride demons and can twist the body to their desire. Else they have the abilities the mortal body knew (look at the undead and all other possession).
Shale was already a magical creature, Wilhem just enchanted the golem repicie.
I see no reason to make as a fatal twist on the lore with the sole expection of creation a special snow flake characther and the characther would still not be a mage, but just someone who would go insane after three seconds to do over exposure to lyrium, blood magic. demons, spirits and who know how else you would throw in there. There is no reason to make such a special snow flake characther and I do not see the fun of playing one when the rest of the world is not going to follow by those rules as well.

I want the rest of the 'human' characthers to have the abilities my team have, I do not want my player characther to be someone so screwed and special from the get go. Them being the player characther already makes it bad enough in term of equality to the rest of the world.

it's an interesting concept to me, i personally like those kind of things so pretty much it's a "you don't like it but i do" kind of thing.

[DRTJR]

I like choice so if one of the Options is for an Orlesian hero I will never pick it. I hope DA 3 can have me topple the Orlesian government and give it to the Elves, with the Orlesians as slaves. Because The only Orlesian I liked was Duke Prosper for Being SOO over the top.

[Atakuma]

I'm already dreading all the awful accents I'm going to be subjected to from the game being set in Orlais, having an Orlesian PC would just make it so much worse.

[andraip]

esper wrote...

Yeah, spirits have the bodies abilities + perhaps a little more if they are like pride demons and can twist the body to their desire. Else they have the abilities the mortal body knew (look at the undead and all other possession).
Shale was already a magical creature, Wilhem just enchanted the golem repicie.
(...)

1. Revenants are undead warriors (i know, possesed by pride demons) who can use PULL, a consider PULL to be a spell of the Force Mage tree, not just a little more. EDIT: also in DAO they used Miasma, an enthropic spell all mages could learn.

2. Shale was a DWARF, = not magical. Although golems themselves use some magic like attacks.

Modifié par andraip, 08 avril 2012 - 10:34 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Chiramu wrote...

Would be awesome , I hope some French actors would like to work on the English version of the game . 

If a large part of the game takes place in Orlais, I want everyone to speak French, not just have a French accent.  Well, not French, Orlesian.  At least part of the time.

And they totally need to call you Turnip.  That should be your official moniker in Orlais.  In Origins it was "Warden", in DA2 it was "Champion", in DA3 you'll be "Turnip".