43 réponses à ce sujet

[xi ShadowWolf x]

Never played Vanguard but a few of my friends say its a.. challenging, class to play. Maybe why? idk :|

[Asch Lavigne]

Nova and Incendiary Ammo and why I like Vanguard over Adept.

[sedrikhcain]

Sidney wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Almost never used Nova - too high risk to take a shot from that baddies just outside the blast radius. Loved double pull as my ranged thing to break up the foes and then follow on the with charges,

The charge+nova combo eventually takes away nearly all of the danger of taking hits after a charge because at higher levels charge automatically restores your shields after successful impact.

Unless I've got this wrong, charge pluses your barriers, nova discharges them for much damage leaving you functionally w/o any cover. Now I know if you have a fast enough cooldown you can minimze that window of vulnerability before you trun aroundn and launch your next charge but there is a still a gap (or always was for me) that got me killed.

OK, now I get it, we're talking the purge following Nova. Yes, it's true that you are vulnerable for a split second but, 1, I softened up groups with grenades or whatever else from squadmates before charging and 2, I actually enjoyed calling the power wheel and pausing the action to spot those hangers on and have squadmates pick them off for me, if necessary. It gave the whole thing a bullet time feel. Now, I haven't run this through on insanity yet, and it would be tougher under those circumstances, but it's still just a matter of softening them up enough before you charge in. In the meantime, embrace the shotgun!

[Jazharah]

The only reason I got bored with my Vanguard was because the fights ended so quickly and I felt I was only flying around the galaxy collecting assets and running around the citadel babbling with people.

Vanguard SP doesn't give the same thrill as MP though. In SP you can pause. In MP you're dead if you feel the need to pause.

[incinerator950]

I can't enjoy other classes in SP because of the Vangard. I got so bored of Insanity Sentinel I turned the difficulty down so I could finish the game faster.

[capn233]

I'm continuing an AR Vanguard I created in ME2 (actually changed the base weapons to only AR and pistol for that run, no Mattock bc I didn't have that weapon). Fun so far.

I essentially abandoned Nova after the first few missions, and have Slam as a bonus so it is even more like it was in ME2. Probably AR's are not quite as much of a handicap as last game.

[Omega-202]

Sidney wrote...

Unless I've got this wrong, charge pluses your barriers, nova discharges them for much damage leaving you functionally w/o any cover. Now I know if you have a fast enough cooldown you can minimze that window of vulnerability before you trun aroundn and launch your next charge but there is a still a gap (or always was for me) that got me killed.

You do have it wrong.  

Charge replenishes your shields, grants you 50% damage resistance for 4 seconds (a hidden bonus that you can see if you look at the .ini files) and grants you invincibility frames while it's executing.  

Nova grants you invincibility frames while executing as well.  Also, a key part is the tier 5 perk.  With Half-Blast, you can use it twice, giving yourself A LOT of invulnerability time.  Or you can take the increased recharge, which I will discuss in a minute.

If you chain Charge->Nova -> Nova with the Half-Blast perk and a weapon bonus of ~150%+, you can Charge immediately after the second Nova without an issue.  You can do all of this and only have microseconds of non-invincibility between powers, which shouldn't matter much because you have the hidden 50% damage resistance from Charge.  

If you chain Charge -> Nova with the increased recharge rate perk, you can start alternating the two with no downtime after the 3 rotation or so.  If you have some bonuses from Glyph and 200% weapon bonus, its easy to get the cooldown low enough that you can chain them back to back even sooner.  

So in summary, there isn't a gap if you build right.  You can literally continue Charging and Novaing with no break and essentially permanent invulnerability if your reflexes are fast enough.  

[lazuli]

incinerator950 wrote...

I can't enjoy other classes in SP because of the Vangard. I got so bored of Insanity Sentinel I turned the difficulty down so I could finish the game faster.

This is my fear as I'm starting my Adept.  I already had an Infiltrator that failed to launch.

I wish weapon unlocks could carry across to all Shepards if you so chose.  I think starting with a GPS or Graal would have saved my Infiltrator.

[Simbacca]

Just finished my Vanguard run recently and I had a blast (not as much as in the last game though FWIW).  Focused on using my Wraith, because I just love shotgunning from ME2, and Charging but also made liberal use of all the other skills. 

6 Incendiary Ammo (dmg, ammo, dmg)
6 Cryo Ammo (squad, headshot, freeze)
6 Charge (radius, power, shields)
6 Pull (radius, double)
0 Shockwave
6 Nova (radius, recharge, pierce)
6 Passive (capacity, power dmg, weight)
6 Fitness (shields, recharge, shields)
6 Incendiary Grenades (dmg, dmg, armor)

Wraith (dmg, pentrate/accuracy)
Paladin (scope, dmg)

Usually ran with Liara and EDI.

Charge into Incendiary Wraith blast, Nova then Charge was common.  Liara's Stasis and Warp turn Charge into Missile, Nova to Nuke.  Double Pulls into Liara's Warp if an area needed thinning first, instead into Charge often cause why the hell not.
And ranged Novas make detonating Banshees a little safer 

Modifié par Simbacca, 10 avril 2012 - 04:06 .

[Jazharah]

Omega-202 wrote...

Charge replenishes your shields, grants you 50% damage resistance for 4 seconds (a hidden bonus that you can see if you look at the .ini files) and grants you invincibility frames while it's executing.  

Nova grants you invincibility frames while executing as well.  Also, a key part is the tier 5 perk.  With Half-Blast, you can use it twice, giving yourself A LOT of invulnerability time.  Or you can take the increased recharge, which I will discuss in a minute.

If you chain Charge->Nova -> Nova with the Half-Blast perk and a weapon bonus of ~150%+, you can Charge immediately after the second Nova without an issue.  You can do all of this and only have microseconds of non-invincibility between powers, which shouldn't matter much because you have the hidden 50% damage resistance from Charge.  

If you chain Charge -> Nova with the increased recharge rate perk, you can start alternating the two with no downtime after the 3 rotation or so.  If you have some bonuses from Glyph and 200% weapon bonus, its easy to get the cooldown low enough that you can chain them back to back even sooner.  

So in summary, there isn't a gap if you build right.  You can literally continue Charging and Novaing with no break and essentially permanent invulnerability if your reflexes are fast enough.  

And this is how you make a Vanguard. Excellently explained. <3

[lazuli]

Omega-202 wrote...

You can literally continue Charging and Novaing with no break and essentially permanent invulnerability if your reflexes are fast enough.  

I just don't think the Vanguard, or at least Nova, was tested enough.

[ashwind]

lazuli wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

You can literally continue Charging and Novaing with no break and essentially permanent invulnerability if your reflexes are fast enough.  

I just don't think the Vanguard, or at least Nova, was tested enough.

I think that Bioware made Vanguard and the other classes; all insane and immortal in their own way because in ME2, people are complaining that part of an RPG experience is Character Skill > Player Skill.

In ME1, when you get high level enough with all the best equipments, you are even godlier than ME3. In ME2, the player skill has more weight. So in ME3, they tried to merge ME1 & ME2

[Kronner]

Omega-202 wrote...

Charge replenishes your shields, grants you 50% damage resistance for 4 seconds (a hidden bonus that you can see if you look at the .ini files) and grants you invincibility frames while it's executing.  

Nova grants you invincibility frames while executing as well.  Also, a key part is the tier 5 perk.  With Half-Blast, you can use it twice, giving yourself A LOT of invulnerability time.  Or you can take the increased recharge, which I will discuss in a minute.

If you chain Charge->Nova -> Nova with the Half-Blast perk and a weapon bonus of ~150%+, you can Charge immediately after the second Nova without an issue.  You can do all of this and only have microseconds of non-invincibility between powers, which shouldn't matter much because you have the hidden 50% damage resistance from Charge.  

If you chain Charge -> Nova with the increased recharge rate perk, you can start alternating the two with no downtime after the 3 rotation or so.  If you have some bonuses from Glyph and 200% weapon bonus, its easy to get the cooldown low enough that you can chain them back to back even sooner.  

So in summary, there isn't a gap if you build right.  You can literally continue Charging and Novaing with no break and essentially permanent invulnerability if your reflexes are fast enough.  

I'd just add that 120% recharge speed is good enough if you take Half-Blast Nova.

Also, the full Nova that gives you +25% recharge speed increase stacks up to +100% bonus. So it may be even better than Half-Nova since you do not have to bother spamming it as much.

[lazuli]

ashwind wrote...

I think that Bioware made Vanguard and the other classes; all insane and immortal in their own way because in ME2, people are complaining that part of an RPG experience is Character Skill > Player Skill.

In ME1, when you get high level enough with all the best equipments, you are even godlier than ME3. In ME2, the player skill has more weight. So in ME3, they tried to merge ME1 & ME2

Interesting theory.  I guess narrative mode wasn't enough.

I do recall not needing cover after around level 20 in ME1.  Sigh.

[pomrink]

Any class that gets inferno ammo is boring. That ammo power is so over the top

[incinerator950]

lazuli wrote...

ashwind wrote...

I think that Bioware made Vanguard and the other classes; all insane and immortal in their own way because in ME2, people are complaining that part of an RPG experience is Character Skill > Player Skill.

In ME1, when you get high level enough with all the best equipments, you are even godlier than ME3. In ME2, the player skill has more weight. So in ME3, they tried to merge ME1 & ME2

Interesting theory.  I guess narrative mode wasn't enough.

I do recall not needing cover after around level 20 in ME1.  Sigh.

I recall everything after level 20 being a chore.  Although trying Insanity with a level 1 was more challenging, I bored myself to death and just imported my level 60 Adept to be done with it.  ME 2 felt good to use Tactical Vanguards or Adepts for Insanity. 

ME 3 did feel like it bridged that gap, but after three Insanity Vanguard playthroughs, I can't play another class on Insanity.  I got as far as Cronos station before I downed the difficulty just to finish the game sooner. 

Even though Demon Souls got easy after a while, and had an imbalanced PvP, the game had a very nice bridgeway for Player skill and Player level. 

[Amaranthy]

Vanguard is fun, just don't level nova. It's an ability that shouldn't have been in the game.

[Kuriby]

Lmao... once people learn about the Charge+nova+nova build.. vanguard becomes the most fun/easy class...

Insanity mode becomes a joke
Soloing Silver/Bronze in multiplayer is easy... Gold is still a bit hard... but hey everyone needs a challenge

[The Spamming Troll]

ashwind wrote...

I enjoy the Vanguard for 1 reason: Best seats in the house to witness heads exploding. 

i loled.