218 réponses à ce sujet

[Rickin10]

Shame really, cos a lot of the writers seem like good people and it'd be really great to talk to them. If only Hudson, Walters and Gamble hadn't lied at every turn, maybe this would be a more civil place.

[Edrick1976]

If I worked at BioWare I would be scared to come on the ME3 forms.... Not to mention whats the point? I know I would not believe ANTYHING BioWare says at this point....

Modifié par Edington, 08 avril 2012 - 06:52 .

[bigbade]

abaris wrote...

bigbade wrote...

in that case I don't see why the DA forum gets dev replies to those kind of questions. Unless that embargo dwindles down with content plans, but if I'm not mistaken Gaider's been answering to people all throughout DA2 and it's DLC period (might be wrong here, correct me if so). 

They more or less abandoned DAII - that would be one explanation.

The other would be that Gaiders responses are screened before he posts them. I can't imagine him being absolutely free to say whatever strikes his fancy. That's not how corporate life or any business life works.

Once again, even if you work at a grocers you're usually not free to talk about your merchandise unless you want to risk the sack.

I guess their abandonment of the DA2 expansion pack would support this. I don't think he's free to say whatever he wants either, but he does post alot.

But there's a slight difference between selling food and selling video games . I don't hand craft my lettuce for lettuce fans everywhere depending on their input you know? 

[Halfdan The Menace]

Xrissie wrote...

You scared them away.

Pfffttt!! LMAO! xD

Of course y'all scared them away. An army of internet cows could be very dangerous.

Modifié par ModestmeNTaLmogul, 08 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[Amioran]

bigbade wrote...
1) Ok, yes that's true. Heat dies down with the trolls, but the extended cut is either going to spark this all over again or soothe the largest number of people it can, reducing this fire to a mere sidenote (forum wise, not in bioware's history) some months from now. I don't think Bioware wants to spark this again, and by keeping us in the dark about it they make it that much more likely. 

Just have a little patience. The extended cut is not going to arise flames that much more because the people flaming are anyway always the same (given the little lapse of time), so they will go away as they would have gone away without.

I know that it sucks that they keep you in the dark but simply for the motives I explained I think they cannot do otherwise for now (I know I would do the same in their shoes; I do differently now because I don't care one way or another, but that's different in their case). Probably they don't like that too, also if you can think the contrary.

bigbade wrote...
2) Guess that depends on your interpretation of the thread. I like to think the threads are there for a reason other than rhetorical questioning and provocation.

Who is now that is overestimating the mass? Just look around. How many threads there are that are only done as a provocation? Just in the first page almost everyone of them is like that.

bigbade wrote...
3) That fault lies with posters. A lot of people here just can't debate well, that's more than true. I was frustrated during the 1-2 weeks where every 5 minutes a new "indoc theory debunker" thread would spawn and the person had not read the theory and would not reply to their own thread afterwards. I've also seen the people trying to say that ME3 "technically" DID deliver because anything said pre-release is subject to change and won't stray from this point of view. That's not debating, that's just trying to impose your opinion without convincing anyone. 
But regardless, I'm not saying people here debate well, I'm saying there's lots of people with lots of good points. Some present them better than others.

This is part of the problem, but the most aggravating is that most of the people in the thread simply don't care at all about debating. They are just there to say what they want to say (usually with just one/two sentences without any explanation and when you try to arise them they even become angry because you asked) and that's all.

Modifié par Amioran, 08 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[abaris]

bigbade wrote...

But there's a slight difference between selling food and selling video games . I don't hand craft my lettuce for lettuce fans everywhere depending on their input you know? 

But they don't do that either. There's a team involved and a shareholder company handing out the dosh for doing it.

So, it's not their baby to take care of. It's more or less EAs baby.

[Father_Jerusalem]

bigbade wrote...

Echo_V wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Why should they? Every little thing they say and do is ripped apart by butthurt people on the forums. They get threats on Twitter, they're harassed and treated like crap... why the hell SHOULD they talk to you?

Seriously. I'm sure they'd rather slam their dicks in a door than come here and deal with all the drama queens here.

This!
I've read horrible stuff from fans on BSN since ME3`s launch, so I'm actually glad they don't talk to us at the moment.
Even Jessica and Chris get insulted even though they are working FOR the community...
Just read the replies to this thread -.-

horrible stuff is part of the job. They made a lot of people angry, angry people say angry things. That can be rationalized rather easily, like when a teenager gets mad at their parents and tells them they hate them. The parent might be upset at that very moment but after a while they realize the kid was speaking out of anger/frustration. It's been a month now, which IMO is plenty of time to try and think this through. 

So, it's okay to threaten violence or death to the devs because "it's part of the job".

Gotcha.

[Super.Sid]

One of the writers, Patrick Weekes, apparently talked to a fan
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11154234/1

and this is what happened
Jessica Merizan ‏ @JessicaMerizan
@Ryuasiu @patrickweekes that was
not am interview and it was filled with half-truths and inaccuracies.
I'm actually pretty angry about it.

so you can guess why

[bigbade]

Amioran wrote...

bigbade wrote...
What? Go ahead, try and set up a huge multi-million dollar company and come out with a statement which gets misinterpreted then come back with "well you're an idiot for taking me literally". 

It depends on the statement. In that case it was obvious. You don't get money from your "co-autorship" isn't it? Have they contacted you to ask you questions about the scripts etc. during devolopment? Didn't seem to me or am I mistaking something?

There are things that simply cannot be taken literally or you are a simpleton. A thing is having a mediocre IQ, another it is to have it so low to not get a thing as this. Nobody can take seriously someone as that.

bigbade wrote...
Besides, the guy saying he's an actual co-author is using it to bolster his probably poor argument about why the ending didn't satisfy him and he feels betrayed by his 'partners in writing' (me team)'.

Sure, and I know perfectly that he just play the obvious card of the simpleton just to have a point. He knows perfectly that the thing was not literal but he play smart.

This is, in fact, twisting words. If he would have taken the thing seriously then I would not have brought it as an example of that because it would have been another thing.

bigbade wrote...
I'm generalizing, but again those kind of topics are just very very very easy to not click on, and saying that 95% of this forum is those kind of people isn't fair to the huge amount of constructive debate we see every day. 

Sadly but that percentual is probably true, and if it is not 95% it is 90%. You cannot expect a dev to really search 10-20 pages of threads just to find 1-2 useful debates. With the amount of threads there are and with the velocity they come and go (again for the motives already explained) it is simply almost impossible.

And either if they could the other 90% of trolls would start to flame so hard (they are there for this) as to make any sort of debate impossible. It would be like talking in a club with the music at 200 decibel.

I fail to see the futility in their answering questions only THEY have the answer to, they can't be wrong.

Oh, but they can. If you don't want to listen then everything the other says it is necessarily always wrong.

1) It's a twisting of words in a very vague statement that ultimately didn't say much of anything. That's why it's so easy to twist, if Casey Hudson had come out and said "we're scrapping starchild" there is no other way to interpret that.
Still, intelligent-based elitism will never get you anywhere because it's a direct attack on people. Even if you don't have to take them seriously, you want their money and by calling them a simpleton you won't be getting it 

2) No, I can't expect the devs to do that. But I'm not asking them to do that, there are at LEAST 3-5 good threads on a page at any given time, a dev can drop in at any interval and find something worth posting in. It would give a sense of actual interaction instead of "we are listening"

3) They won't be wrong because they're the only ones who know what's right and wrong in it. People will disagree and, worst case scenario, insults will fly but when the dust settles they're the ones with the dev tools. 

Just one more reason they should release a ME 1-3 SDK 

[Zhuinden]

Traim Eisenblut wrote...

They have too much artistic integrity to talk about it.

I think the real devs are not allowed to speak around here, and the lead devs have too much artistic integrity (and money) to care about their fans.

[bigbade]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bigbade wrote...

Echo_V wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Why should they? Every little thing they say and do is ripped apart by butthurt people on the forums. They get threats on Twitter, they're harassed and treated like crap... why the hell SHOULD they talk to you?

Seriously. I'm sure they'd rather slam their dicks in a door than come here and deal with all the drama queens here.

This!
I've read horrible stuff from fans on BSN since ME3`s launch, so I'm actually glad they don't talk to us at the moment.
Even Jessica and Chris get insulted even though they are working FOR the community...
Just read the replies to this thread -.-

horrible stuff is part of the job. They made a lot of people angry, angry people say angry things. That can be rationalized rather easily, like when a teenager gets mad at their parents and tells them they hate them. The parent might be upset at that very moment but after a while they realize the kid was speaking out of anger/frustration. It's been a month now, which IMO is plenty of time to try and think this through. 

So, it's okay to threaten violence or death to the devs because "it's part of the job".

Gotcha.

Part of the job is communicating with people, you can't predict what people will do or say, and it's not a part of the job on our end to insult them because we don't really have a job in this, but it is their job to be able to confront/talk to their fans through thick and thin. 

[Father_Jerusalem]

bigbade wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bigbade wrote...

Echo_V wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Why should they? Every little thing they say and do is ripped apart by butthurt people on the forums. They get threats on Twitter, they're harassed and treated like crap... why the hell SHOULD they talk to you?

Seriously. I'm sure they'd rather slam their dicks in a door than come here and deal with all the drama queens here.

This!
I've read horrible stuff from fans on BSN since ME3`s launch, so I'm actually glad they don't talk to us at the moment.
Even Jessica and Chris get insulted even though they are working FOR the community...
Just read the replies to this thread -.-

horrible stuff is part of the job. They made a lot of people angry, angry people say angry things. That can be rationalized rather easily, like when a teenager gets mad at their parents and tells them they hate them. The parent might be upset at that very moment but after a while they realize the kid was speaking out of anger/frustration. It's been a month now, which IMO is plenty of time to try and think this through. 

So, it's okay to threaten violence or death to the devs because "it's part of the job".

Gotcha.

Part of the job is communicating with people, you can't predict what people will do or say, and it's not a part of the job on our end to insult them because we don't really have a job in this, but it is their job to be able to confront/talk to their fans through thick and thin. 

So again, you're saying you can be horrid, vile little trolls who scream and scream and send death threats to the devs, but that they STILL have to come and hold your hand and talk to you?

No. Real life doesn't work that way. The devs job is NOT to come and kiss your owie to make everything better. It's to develop the game. If they WANT to come and talk to the community, great. If the community treats them like absolute crap, I completely understand why the hell they stay away. *I* don't want to deal with you people. 

You want the devs to come and communicate? Stop being obnoxious little ****s. End of.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Id rather they work on fixing the ending instead of talking to us.

[bigbade]

Amioran wrote...

bigbade wrote...
1) Ok, yes that's true. Heat dies down with the trolls, but the extended cut is either going to spark this all over again or soothe the largest number of people it can, reducing this fire to a mere sidenote (forum wise, not in bioware's history) some months from now. I don't think Bioware wants to spark this again, and by keeping us in the dark about it they make it that much more likely. 

Just have a little patience. The extended cut is not going to arise flames that much more because the people flaming are anyway always the same (given the little lapse of time), so they will go away as they would have gone away without.

I know that it sucks that they keep you in the dark but simply for the motives I explained I think they cannot do otherwise for now (I know I would do the same in their shoes; I do differently now because I don't care one way or another, but that's different in their case). Probably they don't like that too, also if you can think the contrary.

bigbade wrote...
2) Guess that depends on your interpretation of the thread. I like to think the threads are there for a reason other than rhetorical questioning and provocation.

Who is now that is overestimating the mass? Just look around. How many threads there are that are only done as a provocation? Just in the first page almost everyone of them is like that.

bigbade wrote...
3) That fault lies with posters. A lot of people here just can't debate well, that's more than true. I was frustrated during the 1-2 weeks where every 5 minutes a new "indoc theory debunker" thread would spawn and the person had not read the theory and would not reply to their own thread afterwards. I've also seen the people trying to say that ME3 "technically" DID deliver because anything said pre-release is subject to change and won't stray from this point of view. That's not debating, that's just trying to impose your opinion without convincing anyone. 
But regardless, I'm not saying people here debate well, I'm saying there's lots of people with lots of good points. Some present them better than others.

This is part of the problem, but the most aggravating is that most of the people in the thread simply don't care at all about debating. They are just there to say what they want to say (usually with just one/two sentences without any explanation and when you try to arise them they even become angry because you asked) and that's all.

1) I know waiting is the only option, it's what I'm doing, it's why I'm not ****ing about Extended Cut until I've seen it, but it's still safe to assume that if EC comes out and it doesn't address anything people were whining about this will all be blamed on bioware's lack of communication again. I guess it comes down to trusting bioware to make the right calls or letting them potentially dig their own graves. 

2) xD, fine, but I can also say that I react in that way to threads I post in because I nitpick them in the first place. I don't click on threads with titles that just scream out 'conflict'! A matter of pick and choose, I guess.

3) yeap, and it's why if anything bioware devs should read the BIG threads, the ones we know are legitimately constructive (i.e the ones with links to a bunch of articles, indoc theory [if anything for the read], etc..). If a thread is asking questions about Mass Effect lore the title should be self-evident and there is no reason not to click on it, unless it's a trap. 

[kalle90]

Yea last time I saw someone from Bioware post it instantly turned into "You liar!, "No one cares what you say!", "Ffs"

[bigbade]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bigbade wrote..

Part of the job is communicating with people, you can't predict what people will do or say, and it's not a part of the job on our end to insult them because we don't really have a job in this, but it is their job to be able to confront/talk to their fans through thick and thin. 

So again, you're saying you can be horrid, vile little trolls who scream and scream and send death threats to the devs, but that they STILL have to come and hold your hand and talk to you?

No. Real life doesn't work that way. The devs job is NOT to come and kiss your owie to make everything better. It's to develop the game. If they WANT to come and talk to the community, great. If the community treats them like absolute crap, I completely understand why the hell they stay away. *I* don't want to deal with you people. 

You want the devs to come and communicate? Stop being obnoxious little ****s. End of.

Really? real life doesn't work that way? First of all if they wanted to they could sue for death threats and that is an extreme case. Second, if a customer is yelling at you about something, whatever it is, chances are you'll get fired if you don't deal with it in a way that makes it so the customer walks away with a smile on his face. It's stupid, I'm not saying otherwise, but we're talking big money here. Between swallowing your pride and being spit on to make money or pouting in your corner to prove your integrity and thus lose that money, we know which option most people will want to take.
If they wanted to develop a game all by themself without input I don't think they'd put such a heavy emphasis on player-developer relations. They wouldn't even "listen" if that were the case. 

And again, it's not like the community treats people like crap for fun. They dun goof'd in the first place and even if there are a number of trolls out there who purposelly try to sabotage efforts and bring down developers, most just have legitimate concerns and gripes. 

Only obnoxious one in this thread is you right now btw. 

Modifié par bigbade, 08 avril 2012 - 07:17 .

[bigbade]

done, sorry lol

[EHondaMashButton]

 Because the rhetoric on here is so skewed to the extremes of fanboy/girl, haters, and trolls. Plus internet forums overrepresent hardcore gamers & pc gamers, when the money is in casual gamers and console gamers.

As ridiculous, illogical. and terrible as the endings are, the average casual gamer is not that invested in the series to see all the ways the ending falls on its face.  The majority of people are just unsatisfied at its abruptness, and will be perfectly happy with a more clear explanation of how this turd was supposed to smell.  

Also, forum anonimity leads to nastiniss, whereas people are much more reasonable to deal with on twitter/facebook.

Modifié par EHondaMashButton, 08 avril 2012 - 07:29 .

[bigbade]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

 Because the rhetoric on here is so skewed to the extremes of fanboy/girl, haters, and trolls. Plus internet forums overrepresent hardcore gamers & pc gamers, when the money is in casual gamers and console gamers.
As ridiculous, illogical. and terrible as the endings are, the average casual gamer is not that invested in the series to see all the ways the ending falls on its face.  The majority of people are just unsatisfied at its abruptness, and will be perfectly happy with a more clear explanation of how this turd smells.  

for money, yeah it's clear EA banks on casual gamers to rack up the sales but at the end of the day there's a small group of fans this game is made for, the guys who show up at PAX in krogan outfits etc...

Plus it's worth nothing that ME2's stats show that 50% of players who bought the game never finished. I would bump that up with ME3 a little, but it's still half of those sales down the drain regarding input on the ending, that's why those claiming 'vocal minority' as a defense / attack on Retake etc... isn't the best one to use. 

[Get Magna Carter]

theories
1) on holiday for Easter
2) too busy working on dlc
3) too scared of the amount of negativity and want people to calm down a bit first

[bigbade]

1) easter doesn't last 5 years
2) I hope so, but their presence on forum (as stated by many bioware devs) are, apart from the mods, on their own time and this should therefore not influence their ability to be on the forum. Unless their life is THAT busy.
3) Replies to that are in the thread if you want to read it, but letting it stagnate won't make it better imo.

[EHondaMashButton]

bigbade wrote...

EHondaMashButton wrote...

 Because the rhetoric on here is so skewed to the extremes of fanboy/girl, haters, and trolls. Plus internet forums overrepresent hardcore gamers & pc gamers, when the money is in casual gamers and console gamers.
As ridiculous, illogical. and terrible as the endings are, the average casual gamer is not that invested in the series to see all the ways the ending falls on its face.  The majority of people are just unsatisfied at its abruptness, and will be perfectly happy with a more clear explanation of how this turd smells.  

for money, yeah it's clear EA banks on casual gamers to rack up the sales but at the end of the day there's a small group of fans this game is made for, the guys who show up at PAX in krogan outfits etc...

Plus it's worth nothing that ME2's stats show that 50% of players who bought the game never finished. I would bump that up with ME3 a little, but it's still half of those sales down the drain regarding input on the ending, that's why those claiming 'vocal minority' as a defense / attack on Retake etc... isn't the best one to use. 

I see the same data and reach the opposite conclusion.

If half the people who play my game don't keep it long enough to reach the ending, I'd be more worried about fixing that so the game doesn't end up on used shelves.  The hardcore fans are gonna buy it no matter what, and they're gonna have extreme complaints no matter what.  But nowadays the hardcore need to be appeased so they don't tank the sh#$% out of your reviews.

Modifié par EHondaMashButton, 08 avril 2012 - 07:34 .