218 réponses à ce sujet

[l7986]

They are to busy reading the PS3 tech support forums >.>

[Amioran]

aLucidMind wrote...
It is fine to call Hudson and Walters talentless or incompetent when it comes to the ending, that is not an attack. That is an opinion and one can flat out call them that while remaining civil.

So in your opinion calling someone incompetent and talentless is not a personal attack/insult and perfectly civil. Good to know.

Apart the fact that to judge something you should be in a position to do so, and as I repeat 95% of the people here have not minimally the sort of background that allow such a judgement to be made and yet they pretend to be the maximum experts in the field, and apart the fact that saying a thing as that and then not having the ability to debate the motive in the specifics it's a clear example of why *you* are talentess/incompetent instead (but I'm digressing, sorry), if either the person you speak about is really talenteless or incompetent saying it so in a conversation or a forum is not civil at all just because it is true. That would be like saying that since a person is fat you can call him/her such as you like and it would not be an insult. I cannot believe that you are serious.

You can maybe say it in a formal critic (as in a journal as a review, because in this case the background it is different, but explaining here the difference will be too long so let's leave it at that, but also in that case it is only tolerable, not certainly polite at all), but in a personal conversation or in a place as this it is not civil at all and it is a personal attack. The fact that it can be true doesn't change this minimally.

Modifié par Amioran, 08 avril 2012 - 10:04 .

[Dridengx]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Because when they do, people here rip them apart. It's quite rude and sad.

[Chewin]

slyguy200 wrote...
Really because whenever i have seen one show up people lighten up and all ask questions

Well it shows that you are new here.

[MICHELLE7]

slyguy200 wrote...

Drone223 wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Because when they do, people here rip them apart. It's quite rude and sad.

^This

 

Really because whenever i have seen one show up people lighten up and all ask questions

Actually I've seen it go both ways. Maybe they are just busy right now...hopefully working on ME3 related things.

I know the OP mentioned this but hats off to the DA devs...they really do a lot of comments on the DA boards...very informative even when it's more general info about writing and the gaming industry and not completely DA related...often very interesting posts.

[xsdob]

There was the fan transcribed interview with patrick weekes yesterday, oh an mike gamble stooped by to post two comments in that thread about 2 hours ago at the time of posting this. Sorry your missed it op.

http://social.biowar...ndex/11154234/1

[Chewin]

slyguy200 wrote...
Well, i have only seen one or 5 show themselves.

Stick around. There will be plenty.

[Amioran]

aLucidMind wrote...
Like I said, one can voice the opinion that one feels another is incompetent and still remain civil about it.

No, you cannot. Saying incompetent to another it is an insult. The fact that it's true or not true doesn't change that.

If you say to a fat person that s/he is fat you cannot pretend that you are not insulting just because it is true.

aLucidMind wrote...
Everybody has had moments of incompetence, but it is not a bad thing to call them out on it when they act like they created the most incredible thing ever despite everyone saying it sucks.

"Everyone" it's a bit of exageration, don't you think?
Everybody may have had moments of incompetence, as everybody may have had moments when they have been stupid, but anyway saying "you are stupid" is an insult.

You can say: "for this and that the end is written stupidly or incompetently" because in this case the subject is different. In this case you attack the work, not the person.

aLucidMind wrote...
You do not need to be an expert in a field to judge someone in that field.

To judge? Yes, you need it. To have an opinion on it not, but to JUDGE, yes, you need to be an expert, elsewhere your judgment is obviously flawed from beginning. Having an opinion on a thing and stating a judgment are two completely different things and they require a complete different expertise.

aLucidMind wrote...
It is never the opinion that is civil or uncivil, it is how it is stated and expressed that determines whether or not it is a civil statement.

On this we agree. In fact saying "incompetent" to a person is an uncivil way to state your bad opinion on his/her work.

Modifié par Amioran, 08 avril 2012 - 10:12 .

[bigbade]

AJRimmsey wrote...

one thing this thread did right was get the forum trolls to come out from under the bridge again.

at least the OP can no longer be mystified as to why devs dont post on forums

Not really, I don't see any trolls in my thread. I see bad posts sure, but I see good ones as well. A bad post doesn't necessarily mean it's a troll, it's just a bad post. 

Will read what I missed and comment x) company of heroes keeping me up late. 

[OdanUrr]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Because when they do, people here rip them apart. It's quite rude and sad.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[AnoraBlows]

To all those saying that they'd be ripped apart and what not:

DID YOU EVEN BOTHER TO READ THE OP?

David Gaider, the lead writer for Dragon Age, regularly posts on the DA forums and replies to fans. Even though DA2 was a mediocre game that was a disgrace to the series, he still posts there! Fans can work together for the betterment of the game. If someone is rude, they can be easily banned and their posts binned. This is also what happens on the DA2 forums, where as soon as criticism oversteps past its boundaries into insult territory, the user is rightfully banned.

[bigbade]

Amioran wrote...

bigbade wrote...
1) It's a twisting of words in a very vague statement that ultimately didn't say much of anything.

What's vague on one that says "fans are almost co-authors now"? It is just a matter of saying, as a singer can say "my fans are what make me write what I do". Both are statements of gratitude, not certainly of a literal right to autorship.

bigbade wrote...
That's why it's so easy to twist

????

You can twist the meaning only if A) you have an IQ of an aomeba, you do it willingly to have a point on pretending a change in their work (as the guy is doing). There's no other way around.

bigbade wrote...
if Casey Hudson had come out and said "we're scrapping starchild" there is no other way to interpret that.
Still, intelligent-based elitism will never get you anywhere because it's a direct attack on people. Even if you don't have to take them seriously, you want their money and by calling them a simpleton you won't be getting it 

????

Actually that sentence was said even before ME3 came out, so I don't have any idea of what you are talking about here.

bigbade wrote...
2) No, I can't expect the devs to do that. But I'm not asking them to do that, there are at LEAST 3-5 good threads on a page at any given time, a dev can drop in at any interval and find something worth posting in. It would give a sense of actual interaction instead of "we are listening"

Again, it would serve nothing. If you try to put a drop a of water in the fire it doesn't make any difference at all on just simply doing nothing at all, and on the contrary it can either result in a worse result given the oxygen contained in it. In this case, non methaphorically speaking, it would just arise flaming either more, given the majority of the audience's mindset.

bigbade wrote...
3) They won't be wrong because they're the only ones who know what's right and wrong in it. People will disagree and, worst case scenario, insults will fly but when the dust settles they're the ones with the dev tools.

The dust never settles when the wind is at 200 mhp/h.  

1) the statement, the whole thing. It basically said nothing. You can re-read it if you like and tell me what you got from it, it's a statement on the conclusion but all it talks about the pride Casey takes in the team for their hard work and that they're listening to criticism. 

2) The fact that it's so vague is what makes that statement (the whole thing, not just that sentence) so easy to twist.
-" "I'd like to thank the whole ME team", See how he doesn't mention the VA Cast? Casey hates voices! To the stake!"

Like that.

3) Casey said they were scrapping starchild before me3 came out? really now? I said if Casey would come out, today, now, and say "We are getting rid of Starchild" there would be no OTHER way to interpret that. It's not vague, it's solid.

4) If their comment doesn't provoke more speculation, there's no reason it shouldn't fan any flames. Reference: Patrick Weekes Q&A. People are grateful for the most part in that thread, the only person who even remotely compromised it was Jessica Merezan saying it was full of half-truths and that it angers her.

5) No matter what bioware does or says the winds won't be at 200 mp/h forever. People will eventually get tired of their crap and move on, and that dust will settle, and Mass Effect will forever be remembered by what Bioware makes of it. 

Modifié par bigbade, 09 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[bigbade]

For the record I'd still say Walters & Hudson had a moment of incompetence rather than being incompetent, that generalizes it as them being incompetent in general, but even then I wouldn't call them either of that. 


incompetence: Not having the necessary skills to do something successfully.

They obviously have the skills, at best I would make the assumption that they lacked good judgment vis-a-vis their game's continuity, setting, and logic when making the ending. This is what makes me kind of believe the maybe-true-maybe-false Patrick Weekes denied post claiming they did it alone, but I won't, however, lean on it as fact.

AnuraBlows...

o all those saying that they'd be ripped apart and what not:

DID YOU EVEN BOTHER TO READ THE OP?

David Gaider, the lead writer for Dragon Age, regularly posts on the DA forums and replies to fans. Even though DA2 was a mediocre game that was a disgrace to the series, he still posts there! Fans can work together for the betterment of the game. If someone is rude, they can be easily banned and their posts binned. This is also what happens on the DA2 forums, where as soon as criticism oversteps past its boundaries into insult territory, the user is rightfully banned.

I'll admit, that irks me. 
Please read the OP before posting and if possible read the whole thread or at least the back and forths" There's nothing more frustrating than having to reply to someone who only read the thread title 

Modifié par bigbade, 09 avril 2012 - 01:16 .

[Adanu]

Have you read ANY of the troll threads in this forum?

If you read even one, you'll understand why. I'd not touch this cesspit with a ten foot pole if I was a dev, with the amount of stupidity the last month.

[xsdob]

Just a quick update, mike gamble was on the forums and got driven off by someone posting a huge picture of a bioware troll face and saying that was about as much as the devs cared about the fans.

So congrats.

Modifié par xsdob, 09 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[bigbade]

They don't go past 2-3 pages. Good discussion threads usually last a while, and if not their thread title indicates it as well as potential star rating. There's plenty of features to be able to judge before-hand what's worth reading and what isn't, and with big threads keeping track of links to articles/posts/videos it shouldn't be hard to find.

If the OP is trolling the rest will troll, why read further? Bioware devs aren't oblivious and they aren't new to this, come on.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

TBH, they never came here, even before the ME3 incident, you may get the odd marketing pop in and post or something to that effect, but its been apparently most active in the MP section of the ME3 forums.

Although by comparison, this is more interaction than what is seen in Mass Effect 3.

[bigbade]

xsdob wrote...

Just a quick update, mike gamble was on the forums and got driven off by someone posting a huge picture of a bioware troll face and saying that was about as much as the devs cared about the fans.

So congrats.

If one troll face was all it took then it's a sad day for forumites. Either they make every forum be game-registered only or they be ready to face idiots, that's just the way the internet works, there are no forums without trolls and if they exist that's because they are heavily moderated. Priestly can't possibly keep up with all the threads that spawn not only every day, but every minute. 

Dunno why you're saying congrats, I wasn't even in the thread, but thanks. 

TBH, they never came here, even before the ME3 incident, you may get the odd marketing pop in and post or something to that effect, but its been apparently most active in the MP section of the ME3 forums.

Although by comparison, this is more interaction than what is seen in Mass Effect 3.

This, and in the past ME games as well. People saying they don't come here cause clearly 95% of this place has nothing better to do than to ****** people off and trash on developers don't get it that ME dev posts were never a factor, it was and is very rare, which sucks because I would have liked to see more of them and still do. 

[Aesieru]

They illegally false advertised. Why the hell would they want to come out in the open with that potential truth ready to throw at them.

Also... posting a troll face doesn't make you a troll. Mike has very clearly indicated he listens but doesn't hear, he also illegally advertised via mis-information. And that's not all.

Modifié par Aesieru, 09 avril 2012 - 12:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

bigbade wrote...

Now people might say it's because this whole forum is a cesspool of insults, whining, and ending discussion galore. Yeah, but it's pretty obvious that it WOULDN'T be if we didn't have so many questions about it. Questions that could be answered via a forum post(see Patrick Weekes Q&A thread).
 

Are you kidding?

If there's anything BSN has proven, it's that any attempt to talk to them invites people pre-determined to pick apart everything in the worst possible way.