278 réponses à ce sujet

[Kawamura]

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

If two people apply to work in a Chinese Restaurant, one is of Chinese descent and one is Caucasian, and the Chinese person gets the job, if someone says they got the job because they were Chinese that is not racist.

If, however, they start terrorizing them or insulting them because they're Chinese then that is racist.

If someone goes and starts slagging off Chobot because she's a woman, that is sexist.

If someone slags Chobot off because they think the woman lacks integrity and self respect, that is not sexist, even if it pertains to sexuality.

Not every negative comment that may or may not take into account gender or sexuality is by default sexist.

You're mixing up the meaning of the words sexual and sexist, and I suggest you get that chip off your shoulder asap.

No, I know the two words. It was sexist. The responses afterwards just clarified it.

You cannot be reasoned with and you're completely obstinate. If you want to believe it is sexist then fine but don't sit here casting out your high and mighty judgement on someone and expect everyone to just agree with you.

I would suggest, considering the fact many have opposed your opinion, that you may be the one with the issue here.

Chobot has publicly displayed herself acting like a sl*t - fact.

Chobot has gained a measure of publicity through acting like a sl*t - fact.

Therefore, she has already gained some professional leverage from acting like a sl*t - fact.

It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that she may have gained additional professional leverage from the same actions she has already stopped to - fact.

What that constitutes, I have no idea, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to say what the guy said who you're arguing with. It's not sexist it's simply an observation based upon previous behaviour.

Honestly, you should be appalled by Chobot's behaviour more than sitting here arguing that people are sexist because it's women like her who could threaten to give women in general a bad name.

That you feel it's appropriate to use that word is already not a good thing. 

And I'm not making any comment on her bahavior, happily. At least, I don't think I have. I'm making comment on the responses in this thread. 

It's appropriate to use any word that is becoming of the individuals behaviour.

If you act like sl*t then it is appropriate to be called a sl*t.

This goes for any derogatory term and if you have an issue with any and every derogatory term being used in life then you're going to have difficulties in life, I'm afraid.

If I act like an ass, I expect to be called an ass.

If I punch someone for no reason, I expect to be called a brute or thug.

People are called what is appropriate for their behaviour.

Yes. 

Such as being called sexist. 

[Siduri]

Myrmedus wrote...

This is just a perfect example of arrogance.

"You cannot see it as sexist but it is."

You have a bunch of women explaining to you exactly why it's sexist, but you're absolutely unwilling to stop and consider that maybe you have something to learn.

There's arrogance here all right, but not where you think it is.

[Elite Midget]

Tali could die. Emily Wong was the only logical choice... Than they killed her off screen.

[FatalX7.0]

http://www.ign.com/b...ca-chobot-rocks

Jessica Chobot toys, too.

And why would someone take a picture of themselves on the toilet?

[Myrmedus]

Siduri wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

This is just a perfect example of arrogance.

"You cannot see it as sexist but it is."

You have a bunch of women explaining to you exactly why it's sexist, but you're absolutely unwilling to stop and consider that maybe you have something to learn.

There's arrogance here all right, but not where you think it is.

No, I don't.

I have two individuals arguing it is sexist.

I have one woman in here who says it is not.

I have 2-3 other posters saying it is not - I don't know what gender they are.

[pikey1969]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

You could google her and go to images. She likes to lick things. And play video games in her underwear while flipping people off.

Or check out the IGN article made about her. The funny thing, the picture with her giving that guy a lap dance is in that article with the words "She seems to be an amazing team player, working closely with colleagues, developers, and generally anyone!" above it.

Based on the irrefutable evidence in the tone of and the ideas behind your posts regarding Chobot, I hereby proclaim you a 'sad sexually frustrated dork.'

Problem?

[Icophesis]

 Somebody at EA had a hardon for her I guess.

[Kawamura]

Siduri wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

This is just a perfect example of arrogance.

"You cannot see it as sexist but it is."

You have a bunch of women explaining to you exactly why it's sexist, but you're absolutely unwilling to stop and consider that maybe you have something to learn.

There's arrogance here all right, but not where you think it is.

I'm actually not a woman. 

I'm a man. I've lived as a woman, though. Still do, unfortunately. And men and women can both see sexism. Or not see it, to tell the truth. 

[Myrmedus]

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

If two people apply to work in a Chinese Restaurant, one is of Chinese descent and one is Caucasian, and the Chinese person gets the job, if someone says they got the job because they were Chinese that is not racist.

If, however, they start terrorizing them or insulting them because they're Chinese then that is racist.

If someone goes and starts slagging off Chobot because she's a woman, that is sexist.

If someone slags Chobot off because they think the woman lacks integrity and self respect, that is not sexist, even if it pertains to sexuality.

Not every negative comment that may or may not take into account gender or sexuality is by default sexist.

You're mixing up the meaning of the words sexual and sexist, and I suggest you get that chip off your shoulder asap.

No, I know the two words. It was sexist. The responses afterwards just clarified it.

You cannot be reasoned with and you're completely obstinate. If you want to believe it is sexist then fine but don't sit here casting out your high and mighty judgement on someone and expect everyone to just agree with you.

I would suggest, considering the fact many have opposed your opinion, that you may be the one with the issue here.

Chobot has publicly displayed herself acting like a sl*t - fact.

Chobot has gained a measure of publicity through acting like a sl*t - fact.

Therefore, she has already gained some professional leverage from acting like a sl*t - fact.

It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that she may have gained additional professional leverage from the same actions she has already stopped to - fact.

What that constitutes, I have no idea, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to say what the guy said who you're arguing with. It's not sexist it's simply an observation based upon previous behaviour.

Honestly, you should be appalled by Chobot's behaviour more than sitting here arguing that people are sexist because it's women like her who could threaten to give women in general a bad name.

That you feel it's appropriate to use that word is already not a good thing. 

And I'm not making any comment on her bahavior, happily. At least, I don't think I have. I'm making comment on the responses in this thread. 

It's appropriate to use any word that is becoming of the individuals behaviour.

If you act like sl*t then it is appropriate to be called a sl*t.

This goes for any derogatory term and if you have an issue with any and every derogatory term being used in life then you're going to have difficulties in life, I'm afraid.

If I act like an ass, I expect to be called an ass.

If I punch someone for no reason, I expect to be called a brute or thug.

People are called what is appropriate for their behaviour.

Yes. 

Such as being called sexist. 

So, if someone calls someone a name appropriate to their actions they are then liable to be called another name based upon that action?

Based upon the evidence he was quite correct in what he said.

And I still fail to see how it is based upon gender when the example he brought up works both ways (ie. men do it with women as well).

[pikey1969]

Myrmedus wrote...

Siduri wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

This is just a perfect example of arrogance.

"You cannot see it as sexist but it is."

You have a bunch of women explaining to you exactly why it's sexist, but you're absolutely unwilling to stop and consider that maybe you have something to learn.

There's arrogance here all right, but not where you think it is.

No, I don't.

I have two individuals arguing it is sexist.

I have one woman in here who says it is not.

I have 2-3 other posters saying it is not - I don't know what gender they are.

Their gender is not an automatic validation of what they're saying.

There are black people that were against the civil rights movement too. And jews that worked with ****s.

Modifié par pikey1969, 08 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[pomrink]

Just providing commentary, but ad hominems do not make for a strong argument.

[FatalX7.0]

pikey1969 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

You could google her and go to images. She likes to lick things. And play video games in her underwear while flipping people off.

Or check out the IGN article made about her. The funny thing, the picture with her giving that guy a lap dance is in that article with the words "She seems to be an amazing team player, working closely with colleagues, developers, and generally anyone!" above it.

Based on the irrefutable evidence in the tone of and the ideas behind your posts regarding Chobot, I hereby proclaim you a 'sad sexually frustrated dork.'

Problem?

No, that's a pretty funny label.

[Iwillbeback]

admcmei wrote...

My god, I can't believe what I'm reading. So if a woman is open and self-aware with her sexuality she must be a **** who slept with somebody to get her job. You people are ****ing disgusting. I found her character useless and don't even know who she is apart from that, but I don't have to go around belittling her as human being and a woman for that. Get a life, people, you're precisely the kind of sexually repressed nerds who give us all a bad name.

You didn't read too much.
We're discussing how the image she give off implys she uses her sexual functions to further herself through a various of methods and it is very likely that is why she got the role.

I don't see a random female worker and say "Yeah she got there because she did this to him".
No if I saw something that implied that I would certainly make a connection the correct way.

For godsake she gave lapdances for other people at IGN, I'm sold.
This isn't directed at all women merely just the image she gives out.

[Elite Midget]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

http://www.ign.com/b...ca-chobot-rocks

Jessica Chobot toys, too.

And why would someone take a picture of themselves on the toilet?

To exploit the freaks of her fanbase? Every fanbase has freaks in there somewhere.

[Edrick1976]

I agree with the OP, however can we please show some respect for Chobot she is a human being....

[Myrmedus]

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

If two people apply to work in a Chinese Restaurant, one is of Chinese descent and one is Caucasian, and the Chinese person gets the job, if someone says they got the job because they were Chinese that is not racist.

If, however, they start terrorizing them or insulting them because they're Chinese then that is racist.

If someone goes and starts slagging off Chobot because she's a woman, that is sexist.

If someone slags Chobot off because they think the woman lacks integrity and self respect, that is not sexist, even if it pertains to sexuality.

Not every negative comment that may or may not take into account gender or sexuality is by default sexist.

You're mixing up the meaning of the words sexual and sexist, and I suggest you get that chip off your shoulder asap.

No, I know the two words. It was sexist. The responses afterwards just clarified it.

You cannot be reasoned with and you're completely obstinate. If you want to believe it is sexist then fine but don't sit here casting out your high and mighty judgement on someone and expect everyone to just agree with you.

I would suggest, considering the fact many have opposed your opinion, that you may be the one with the issue here.

Shoulda been here earlier. The other person would've appreciated it. 

Now, you can see it as not sexist, but it is. It's not exactly a classical case, but it's a very popular one. 

This is just a perfect example of arrogance.

"You cannot see it as sexist but it is."

Translated:

"Your opinion or perception of things is wrong, mine is correct, therefore it is."

And?

I don't think I need to go further.

I just essentially said you're arrogant because you dismiss my opinion as incorrect and view your own opinion as gospel or fact.

And your response to that was "And?"

Either you didn't get it or you accept your post as arrogant. Either way, I think the point was made.

[78stonewobble]

pikey1969 wrote...
You just linked pictures of a girl having fun at what clearly seems to be a party. Big f***in whoop. Where you see 'obvious insinuations' of offering sexual favors for promotions, I see some chick partying.

I too am NO fan of HOW she came to her standing in the industry. Selling her 'sex-appeal' to gamers, while offering very little substance otherwise not in her creative endevours nor in her editorials' insights. People like her only further fuel the stereotypes of gamers in general, and does nothing to improve the overall quality of the gaming media (which sorely needs to step up in integrity/quality/depth of their content).

HOWEVER, it is a different thing ENTIRELY to insinuate/assume that she got to where she did by DIRECTLY f***ing her superiors and denounce her based on your own unfonded accusations. That's **** is just plain wrong.

I have to agree with this.

In other news: The punishment for speeding is now death since people speeding are murderers. Well ... they could be and even though we don't know for sure wll judge them as that anyway.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 08 avril 2012 - 08:08 .

[Myrmedus]

pikey1969 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Siduri wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

This is just a perfect example of arrogance.

"You cannot see it as sexist but it is."

You have a bunch of women explaining to you exactly why it's sexist, but you're absolutely unwilling to stop and consider that maybe you have something to learn.

There's arrogance here all right, but not where you think it is.

No, I don't.

I have two individuals arguing it is sexist.

I have one woman in here who says it is not.

I have 2-3 other posters saying it is not - I don't know what gender they are.

Their gender is not an automatic validation of what they're saying.

There are black people that were against the civil rights movement too. And jews that worked with ****s.

Then point that comment to the post I quoted:

Siduri wrote....

You have a bunch of women explaining to you
exactly why it's sexist, but you're absolutely unwilling to stop and
consider that maybe you have something to learn.

There's arrogance here all right, but not where you think it is.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 avril 2012 - 08:08 .

[FatalX7.0]

I still don't see how it's sexist when it was about one woman. And her behavior, which points to the possibility.

Right from IGN's site. They seem to be hinting at something.

Reason 2: She's a Team Player

She seems to be an amazing team player, working closely with colleagues, developers, and generally anyone!

[FatalX7.0]

Elite Midget wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

http://www.ign.com/b...ca-chobot-rocks

Jessica Chobot toys, too.

And why would someone take a picture of themselves on the toilet?

To exploit the freaks of her fanbase? Every fanbase has freaks in there somewhere.

Probably.

[Siduri]

Myrmedus wrote...

I have two individuals arguing it is sexist.

Me, Kawamura, pikey1969, admcmei, etc. is quite a bit more than two. (It's true, of course, that being a woman doesn't automatically make me the arbiter of what is or is not sexist, but it does give me a perspective that you don't have. Some of the other commenters I named also identified themselves as having that perspective, and that is relevant to discussions of sexism.)

[Kawamura]

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

If two people apply to work in a Chinese Restaurant, one is of Chinese descent and one is Caucasian, and the Chinese person gets the job, if someone says they got the job because they were Chinese that is not racist.

If, however, they start terrorizing them or insulting them because they're Chinese then that is racist.

If someone goes and starts slagging off Chobot because she's a woman, that is sexist.

If someone slags Chobot off because they think the woman lacks integrity and self respect, that is not sexist, even if it pertains to sexuality.

Not every negative comment that may or may not take into account gender or sexuality is by default sexist.

You're mixing up the meaning of the words sexual and sexist, and I suggest you get that chip off your shoulder asap.

No, I know the two words. It was sexist. The responses afterwards just clarified it.

You cannot be reasoned with and you're completely obstinate. If you want to believe it is sexist then fine but don't sit here casting out your high and mighty judgement on someone and expect everyone to just agree with you.

I would suggest, considering the fact many have opposed your opinion, that you may be the one with the issue here.

Shoulda been here earlier. The other person would've appreciated it. 

Now, you can see it as not sexist, but it is. It's not exactly a classical case, but it's a very popular one. 

This is just a perfect example of arrogance.

"You cannot see it as sexist but it is."

Translated:

"Your opinion or perception of things is wrong, mine is correct, therefore it is."

And?

I don't think I need to go further.

I just essentially said you're arrogant because you dismiss my opinion as incorrect and view your own opinion as gospel or fact.

And your response to that was "And?"

Either you didn't get it or you accept your post as arrogant. Either way, I think the point was made.

Okay, so you find me arrogant. What's the point?

I'm right on this. It's not like I picked out a crazy and unfamilar case of sexism to point out as sexist.

[Henioo]

I don't have a problem with her character, it was very-well written. Her lines are awesome, too.

But what ruins the character the voice acting. She sounds like she recorded her lines just to record them and be done. There is no passion, she doesn't sound like she means what she says. Like when I walk by her sometimes, she says the title of an article - most of the times it's so dry that it's almost painful to hear. She talks about millions dying like she was talkng about last week's book club meeting. Awful.

[FatalX7.0]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

I still don't see how it's sexist when it was about one woman. And her behavior, which points to the possibility.

Right from IGN's site. They seem to be hinting at something.

Reason 2: She's a Team Player

She seems to be an amazing team player, working closely with colleagues, developers, and generally anyone!

When something is sexist, it's a gender descrimination, the gender in general.

I don't believe Chobot represents the entire female gender, and no one ever said that she did.


Everything that has been said about her, has been about her and no other female.

The ones claiming, "sexist" however, seem to think that she does.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 08 avril 2012 - 08:15 .

[supermaan]

supermaan wrote...

From another thread (Bold parts by me for emphasis):

RollaWarden wrote...

I actually feel bad for Jessica Chobot. Bioware called, and said, "Hey, would you like to be in ME3?" 
Well goodness, who WOULDN'T say okay? So she personally doesn't deserve a lot of the thoughtlessly cruel criticism. But the Diana Allers character was just a bad, bad idea, for resources, story, and dev
time put into the character. A cutesy notion that somebody came up with, and yes, a pretty cynical PR calculation for the IGN connection. Could have all been done so much better with Emily Wong. Too much that
was rushed. Ah, Bioware, before 2007, it was all so much different for you...

All that said, Jessica Chobot doesn't deserve any of the personal attacks. At least we can assume that she's wisely avoided these and any other ME3 forums.

Add to that the fact that none of these kind of threads add anything whatsoever
to gameplay discussion and result in personal bashing of a person,
which in itself is a forum rule violation...not to mention bad taste and
a testament to the character of any person stooping to something so
low.