64 réponses à ce sujet

[NM_Che56]

To add fuel to this theory though:

http://shabdkosh.raf.../meaning/nazara

I admit, the view from the Catalyst's room is beautiful...

[legion999]

I like this theory. Brings back possibly the most terrifying character in Mass Effect and gets rid of the most annoying one to boot. Hell what am I saying I love this theory.

[NM_Che56]

There is no reason why this theory and the IT theory can't coexist... +100 damage!

[Colancio]

If they change the stupid kid with Sovereign it would be so epic. Omg listen to his powerfull voice again

[alienatedflea]

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Well, I start this topic about a possibility not only to fix, but to explain the existance of the starchild.

Is just curious that the link port where Sovereign (AKA, Nazara) docked on ME1 is the same place where a Starchild (that claims to be reaper's boss) appear.

I have the theory that the star child is actually NAZARA, the sovereign, the reaper boss who tried to start the cycle but when failed, transfered himself to the Citadel, in order to survive.

That explains why the hell the citadel didn't activated itself. His activation protocols were destroyed by the keepers, but moving the citadel will allow Nazara to reap humans himself.

What do you think about this? With very few alterations, Nazara could be the starchild, and give us the same three choices with a LOGICAL conclusion:

-Control: You can hold de reapers from reaping humanity. You are partially indoctrinated, and have the chance of save humanity for another cicle, letting them survive without actual reaper technology. The humans will survive, but have to find their path to be the new dominant species... and even they will have a chance to destroy or truly control the reapers next time. You will buy them more time, and the relays will be intact for them on the next cycle. The other species will be reaped. At last, you will become the new collector general in return, the new paragon of the harvest.

-Destruction: You kill the reapers. No more relays, that fits with future Bioware theory about "well, if you look at the FTL engines, you will discover that are not as efficient as relays, but enought to keep galaxy united without Dark Age. The relays just... destroyed, not nova". You survive if have enought war assets.

-Sinthesys: The humanity will become a reaper... and you will be the mind that controls that reaper. The Harbinger has failed, so you will be promoted to the new Harbinger, the one who decides how the other reapers act. In other words, you become the new reaper boss, and you will decide how will they act on the future.


What do you think about this?

It keeps the artistic thing, but gives a logical alternative, nor a deus ex machina.

First off, no offence but man you suck at spelling..you make me look smart at spelling and I suck as well haha.  but on to the topic.

I do not see Synthesis anything like that.  Humans and all other organic races do not become reapers.  This option is the best for both sides of the equation.  Aside from evolution, Organics are dependent on technology and synthetics.  It would make sense that people one day be part machine part organic.

But to become the new harbinger, Shepard gets vaporized and his "energy" was spread throughout the galaxy.  It was not like his energy was sucked in like in the control ending. 

I honestly think that red is the dumbest because shepard forced everyone back to the stone age.

[NM_Che56]

to me, synthesis = Humans are the new collectors. The EDI's and Modins respective DNA analyses of the Collectors in ME2 solidified this for me.

EDI discovered that their DNA showed signs of "extensive genetic rewrite" including three fewer chromosomes, reduced heterochromatin structure, and the elimination of superfluous "junk" sequences.

Mordin determines that the Reapers indoctrinated the Protheans and compensated for their growing lack of ability due to prolonged indoctrination through cybernetic modifications. The modifications are beyond any form of repair, each Collector drone being little more than a clone—it's unknown if they even still possess any form of gender—riddled with cybernetics, lacking glands or digestive system, and having any form of intelligence or self-awareness completely eradicated by indoctrination.

[CrutchCricket]

The endings make no ****ing sense. Stop trying to save them.

That being said Sovereign being there, all incomprehensible and yet still going "I told you so" would go a long way towards restoring some kind of rationality. Done right it can even be brilliant, provided Shepard reacts with anything other than blind obedience.

[Ericus]

Overall, I like this slight redefinition of the endings.

I recently had the thought that (instead of Sovereign) the Citadel is actually a the first Reaper itself. This would put it higher up the hierarchy than Harbinger as indicated in the end-scene dialogue. The starchild is just a projection it chose to try and influence Shepard.

Modifié par Ericus, 09 avril 2012 - 03:26 .

[The Interloper]

It could work. Interesting idea.

[alienatedflea]

Master Che wrote...

to me, synthesis = Humans are the new collectors. The EDI's and Modins respective DNA analyses of the Collectors in ME2 solidified this for me.

EDI discovered that their DNA showed signs of "extensive genetic rewrite" including three fewer chromosomes, reduced heterochromatin structure, and the elimination of superfluous "junk" sequences.

Mordin determines that the Reapers indoctrinated the Protheans and compensated for their growing lack of ability due to prolonged indoctrination through cybernetic modifications. The modifications are beyond any form of repair, each Collector drone being little more than a clone—it's unknown if they even still possess any form of gender—riddled with cybernetics, lacking glands or digestive system, and having any form of intelligence or self-awareness completely eradicated by indoctrination.

So you are saying that a synthetic would lie? that seems pretty big waste of time.   I mean you are basically saying that the reapers have the same nature as organic, deceptive? I imagine that they are cold and calculated.  Doesn't lying leads to emotional responses?

[McCredie64]

I really like this theory, and I think it is worth trying to flesh out even more. Props to you.
The only problem I have is that if Sovereign/Nazara interfaced with the Citadel, why wouldn't he just activate the relay once he was inside it and let the Reapers through?

[NM_Che56]

alienatedflea wrote...

Master Che wrote...

to me, synthesis = Humans are the new collectors. The EDI's and Modins respective DNA analyses of the Collectors in ME2 solidified this for me.

EDI discovered that their DNA showed signs of "extensive genetic rewrite" including three fewer chromosomes, reduced heterochromatin structure, and the elimination of superfluous "junk" sequences.

Mordin determines that the Reapers indoctrinated the Protheans and compensated for their growing lack of ability due to prolonged indoctrination through cybernetic modifications. The modifications are beyond any form of repair, each Collector drone being little more than a clone—it's unknown if they even still possess any form of gender—riddled with cybernetics, lacking glands or digestive system, and having any form of intelligence or self-awareness completely eradicated by indoctrination.

So you are saying that a synthetic would lie? that seems pretty big waste of time.   I mean you are basically saying that the reapers have the same nature as organic, deceptive? I imagine that they are cold and calculated.  Doesn't lying leads to emotional responses?

You mean AI? Yes.  How else do you think EDI was allowed to exist after the Alliance retook the Normandy? Go back to the conversation with Engineer Adams and EDI's deception.

Reapers were trying to convince people on Earth to come out and cooperate so they will be shown mercy.  This is discussed later in the game around Priority Earth or just before it.  From the Wikia page:


"Victims who cooperate, surrender, or are captured by husks are sorted into camps. It is believed the husks possess receptors that allow them to analyze a victim's DNA through sight, smell, or touch. Victims that meet their standards are herded from the camps into processor ships. Those the husks deem insufficient are either turned into husks themselves or indoctrinated to serve as slave labor. The Reapers use this last option to give their victims false hope -- many captives who would otherwise fight back become docile when they see members of their own kind obey and survive".

Lying leads to emotional responses from the person being lied to.  Lies are to manipulate things in your favor.

[balmyrian]

Very interesting, that would go a long way towards saving the current endings.

[alienatedflea]

Master Che wrote...

You mean AI? Yes.  How else do you think EDI was allowed to exist after the Alliance retook the Normandy? Go back to the conversation with Engineer Adams and EDI's deception.

Reapers were trying to convince people on Earth to come out and cooperate so they will be shown mercy.  This is discussed later in the game around Priority Earth or just before it.  From the Wikia page:


"Victims who cooperate, surrender, or are captured by husks are sorted into camps. It is believed the husks possess receptors that allow them to analyze a victim's DNA through sight, smell, or touch. Victims that meet their standards are herded from the camps into processor ships. Those the husks deem insufficient are either turned into husks themselves or indoctrinated to serve as slave labor. The Reapers use this last option to give their victims false hope -- many captives who would otherwise fight back become docile when they see members of their own kind obey and survive".

Lying leads to emotional responses from the person being lied to.  Lies are to manipulate things in your favor.

Artificial Intelligence and "Human"(in this case organic) emotion are very different.  One is driven by logic the other driven by irrationality.  The reaper know what makes people tick but to say that they are anything like us...is a stretch.

[Ironhandjustice]

McCredie64 wrote...

I really like this theory, and I think it is worth trying to flesh out even more. Props to you.
The only problem I have is that if Sovereign/Nazara interfaced with the Citadel, why wouldn't he just activate the relay once he was inside it and let the Reapers through?

Because keepers prevent him to do so.

The existance of the keepers have sense only if they mantain the citadel "as is". When the protheans did the change, they modified them to assume the malfunction of main mass relay as "normal status". So, even if Nazara mixed with the citadel, he is an intruder into the system.

The keepers should try to annihilate him, but they are only machines, and Nazara is a God-like machine. So, they can't obliterate him, but can prevent him to activate the relay.

In the other hand, think that if the starchild was the first reaper, the original existance of Sovereign on the first game is non-sensical.

Why had Nazara to activate the relay, if the relay was a reaper itself? Because of the failure? And if this was the reason, the failure should had been known in the same moment when the Protheans sabotaged it.

Star child as first reaper and/or architect, is non-sensical

[Baryonic-Member]

That would have been a really cool plot-twist, with Sovereign appearing as you were activating the Crucible. Yes

[soulprovider]

another theory that bioware will choose to ignore

[Ironhandjustice]

soulprovider wrote...

another theory that bioware will choose to ignore

Sadly, is highly possible. If I were them, I would consider this. Is a cool way to save starchild abomination

[Ironhandjustice]

Bump

[CashGrab]

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Well, I start this topic about a possibility not only to fix, but to explain the existance of the starchild.

Is just curious that the link port where Sovereign (AKA, Nazara) docked on ME1 is the same place where a Starchild (that claims to be reaper's boss) appear.

I have the theory that the star child is actually NAZARA, the sovereign, the reaper boss who tried to start the cycle but when failed, transfered himself to the Citadel, in order to survive.

That explains why the hell the citadel didn't activated itself. His activation protocols were destroyed by the keepers, but moving the citadel will allow Nazara to reap humans himself.

What do you think about this? With very few alterations, Nazara could be the starchild, and give us the same three choices with a LOGICAL conclusion:

-Control: You can hold de reapers from reaping humanity. You are partially indoctrinated, and have the chance of save humanity for another cicle, letting them survive without actual reaper technology. The humans will survive, but have to find their path to be the new dominant species... and even they will have a chance to destroy or truly control the reapers next time. You will buy them more time, and the relays will be intact for them on the next cycle. The other species will be reaped. At last, you will become the new collector general in return, the new paragon of the harvest.

-Destruction: You kill the reapers. No more relays, that fits with future Bioware theory about "well, if you look at the FTL engines, you will discover that are not as efficient as relays, but enought to keep galaxy united without Dark Age. The relays just... destroyed, not nova". You survive if have enought war assets.

-Synthesis: The humanity will become a reaper... and you will be the mind that controls that reaper. The Harbinger has failed, so you will be promoted to the new Harbinger, the one who decides how the other reapers act. In other words, you become the new reaper boss, and you will decide how will they act on the future.


What do you think about this?

It keeps the artistic thing, but gives a logical alternative, nor a deus ex machina.

If this was adopted by bioware ala nazara was starchild and leader of reapers trapped on the citadel following his docking I would be sated. Still a poor ending but a satisfactory one concerning prescence of starchild
...
His motivations are still bad however
...So i guess i won't be COMPLETELY sated

[Sir Mighty]

You, my good sir, acts like all of us should. Instead of "demanding another ending", you make sense out of the puzzle-pieces you are given by the ending. Respect!

I have always seen the Catalyst/Citadel as the "Main Computer" that controls all the Reapers. It cannot do anything, but it can make the Reapers do what it want for it. The Reapers themselfs have no intelligence, just simple VI's, so normal creatures wont find out that they are not individuals if talking with them.

Control: Shepard replaces the old Catalyst and becomes the new one AKA the Reapers remain enslaved.
Destroy: Shepard destroys the Reapers and the Catalyst AKA the Reapers is destroyed forever.
Synthesis: Shepard merges with the beam and makes all life in the Galaxy become one, so the Reapers are left without purpose AKA the Reapers are freed from slavery.

My theory is, that after Shepard Synthesised with the Catalyst, the Reapers returned to Earth, but they were free of enslavement now and had developed AI intelligence, thanks to the Synthesis. And as the Relays are destroyed, the Reapers wants to help the many people left on Earth, by being used as starships/space stations. Having the choice between starving and die without purpose, and let the Reapers help, the accepted the Reapers offer... What happened next? Only i know. Because that is my Shepard's story.

[Peranor]

Sir Mighty wrote...

You, my good sir, acts like all of us should. Instead of "demanding another ending", you make sense out of the puzzle-pieces you are given by the ending. Respect!

I have always seen the Catalyst/Citadel as the "Main Computer" that controls all the Reapers. It cannot do anything, but it can make the Reapers do what it want for it. The Reapers themselfs have no intelligence, just simple VI's, so normal creatures wont find out that they are not individuals if talking with them.

Control: Shepard replaces the old Catalyst and becomes the new one AKA the Reapers remain enslaved.
Destroy: Shepard destroys the Reapers and the Catalyst AKA the Reapers is destroyed forever.
Synthesis: Shepard merges with the beam and makes all life in the Galaxy become one, so the Reapers are left without purpose AKA the Reapers are freed from slavery.

My theory is, that after Shepard Synthesised with the Catalyst, the Reapers returned to Earth, but they were free of enslavement now and had developed AI intelligence, thanks to the Synthesis. And as the Relays are destroyed, the Reapers wants to help the many people left on Earth, by being used as starships/space stations. Having the choice between starving and die without purpose, and let the Reapers help, the accepted the Reapers offer... What happened next? Only i know. Because that is my Shepard's story.

I guess that's ok if you like to make up your own story and is prepared to fill the plot holes with speculations and assumptions. Some people like that and some people don't.
Personally I'd like the writers to actually write an ending to the story, not just have it stop and then let the customer come up with the rest himself. It's just cheap and it can in no way be justified as good writing.

Modifié par anorling, 18 juin 2012 - 09:18 .

[WolfyZA]

If the "Catalyst" says synthetics will always rebel against its creators, and then him claiming he allegadly created the Reapers then whats to say the reapers didnt rebel against him already?

Just too many plot holes...

Modifié par WolfyZA, 18 juin 2012 - 09:53 .

[o Ventus]

That explains why Sovereign is an arrogant douche, while the Catalyst... Isn't.

[Volc19]

This is too Destroy-centric. Why is it that EVERY theory has Destory sitting atop an ivory tower?

Sovvy taking the place of the Starchild would be interesting, but I can't see him as a guide that would assist Shepard in arming the Crucible. He would be a better boss-fight. Sovereign taunts the player as he manipulates the environment in attempts to kill you/or he could assume control of a Keeper and it could be like Saren's thing at the end of ME1/both things simultaneously.

Then, the Prothean VI could give the run-down on the Crucible's functions.

Modifié par Volc19, 07 août 2012 - 03:05 .