177 réponses à ce sujet

[Myrmedus]

FS3D wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Katherine wrote...

I don't like her for two reasons:

1. They could have modeled Tali instead of using their resources on Allers
2. It seemed like a payoff to IGN

HOWEVER, I am so sick of seeing the personal attacks on the VA, and how she is "ugly" or "slept with someone" to get the job. The sexism towards Chobot is appalling. It doesn't matter if a woman chooses to act or pose in a sexy manner, you shouldn't be so incredibly awful to her. Funny thing is, I've seen Mark Vanderloo in plenty of risqué photos, and yet no-one implies that he ****d his way into being Commander Shepard.

Mark Vanderloo is different.

Firstly, his profession is actually that of a model - he's been a model for years.

Secondly, he isn't actually involved in Mass Effect in any way - he doesn't VA or anything. BW simply decided to model his face as Shepard's and presumably he gave them the OK, that was the limit to his involvement.

Thirdly, he's one option for Shepard's facial display - don't like his face? No problem, make your own!

Precisely... This is something that those lunatics who call us entitled whiners don't seem to get.

Vanderloo's involvement was limited. The devs decided to model his face, and that's all. His part in the series is VA'd by a known VA (I thik we all know who that is by now), and BioWare had no stake in having Vanderloo in the game other than because his face fit the profile for the character...

And that's it.

He doesn't work for a gaming site that gave their game a perfect score, and he provided no voice work or performance capture whatsoever.

The time that the devs spent on the Allers character could have been better used to model Ash Sroka's face so that her character could be rendered in-game instead of using some other model's stock photo as a texture map on a four-point polygon that was used inside a low-res photo-frame in the game engine for maybe 5-10 seconds.

Exactly.

It's basically a case of you going for lunch one day and BioWare phone you up "We'd like to use your face to model our main character on - would that be ok?"

"Sure! Sounds great!"

The End.

I personally don't really hate Allers. I dislike the manner in which Chobot got to her position but the actual character Allers I don't really mind, and I don't really think she has much of a stake in the story to be good or bad.

The VA lacks urgency and takes you out of the moment a bit at times but it's optional, and news reporters do often seem to be emotionally removed from the topic.

But people are just annoyed because obviously BioWare had limited time and resources, so if a character gets in it is ultimately at the cost of another: Chobot being facially modelled and a character added to the game etc. all took time and resources that people would rather have seen elsewhere on more deserving characters like modelling a face for Tali rather the Photoshop'd image we got.

[comrade gando]

Calibrations Expert wrote...

 What is with this "It could have gone to other characters" BS?

Bioware doesn't have a jar filled with character development that depletes the more they use it.

That's true, but it's just that such an insignificant character got treated better as far as art wise (I hate that word now "art") than a major character who's been a mystery since the first game.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

comrade gando wrote...

another thread about bashing on chobot just got locked like 10 min ago, so standby.

Haha is that why I couldn't post on the other forum about her? Don't they know for every Chobot forum they close 3 more will open up? 
Hell I still don't know where she came from now the girl who did Madison from heavy rain? THAT was a voice actress. 

[Leem_0001]

Time to army roll out of this thread before it goes nuclear!

Laterz....

[xtroguyver]

Nyila wrote...

RenownedRyan wrote...

I think the hatred comes from the fact that BioWare wasted any programming time at all on Diana Allers. She is so tacked on, meaningless, and horribly acted that players have to wonder just what the motives were to include such a character in the game. In my opinion, they put Chobot in the game to get some kind of rapport with game reviewers. She works at IGN and is married to Blair Herter, a big role player at G4's X-Play. Conspiracy theory? Maybe. But what else could explain her inclusion? It sure as hell wasn't to advance the story or to introduce an intriguing new character.

Agreed.

seconded

only added her for war assets, she does nothing to show what its like covering a war of this importance, not only that but he outfit is poorly designed fan service, and does not make her look like a professional reporter at all

Really should have been Emily Wong, but yeah how come they had time to give us Diana Allers but couldn't spend the time to give us more detail and in game modles for talis face?

[Iwillbeback]

Katherine wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Katherine wrote...

I don't like her for two reasons:

1. They could have modeled Tali instead of using their resources on Allers
2. It seemed like a payoff to IGN

HOWEVER, I am so sick of seeing the personal attacks on the VA, and how she is "ugly" or "slept with someone" to get the job. The sexism towards Chobot is appalling. It doesn't matter if a woman chooses to act or pose in a sexy manner, you shouldn't be so incredibly awful to her. Funny thing is, I've seen Mark Vanderloo in plenty of risqué photos, and yet no-one implies that he ****d his way into being Commander Shepard.

Mark Vanderloo is different.

Firstly, his profession is actually that of a model - he's been a model for years.

Secondly, he isn't actually involved in Mass Effect in any way - he doesn't VA or anything. BW simply decided to model his face as Shepard's and presumably he gave them the OK, that was the limit to his involvement.

Thirdly, he's one option for Shepard's facial display - don't like his face? No problem, make your own!

I don't understand. Chobot is a presenter/host, does that totally disqualify her from acting sexy? How does being a model make it acceptable in your eyes? Also, you are saying if Vanderloo was directly involved with Mass Effect you would give him the same hate you are giving Chobot? I sincerely doubt it. 

And you don't like Allers? Don't bring her on the Normandy! 

I want refer back to the third point he made.
If you don't like his face model then make your own one.
You can't do the same with Diana Allers, you either have a war reporter or you don't.
That is equal to either accepting Mark's model face or not playing the game as a male at all.

Don't try to turn this around and make it into something it isn't.

[Kawamura]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

another thread about bashing on chobot just got locked like 10 min ago, so standby.

Haha is that why I couldn't post on the other forum about her? Don't they know for every Chobot forum they close 3 more will open up? 
Hell I still don't know where she came from now the girl who did Madison from heavy rain? THAT was a voice actress. 

I thought it was related to how ugly the responses were getting. 

People are really showing their bad sides on this.

[Myrmedus]

Katherine wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Katherine wrote...

I don't like her for two reasons:

1. They could have modeled Tali instead of using their resources on Allers
2. It seemed like a payoff to IGN

HOWEVER, I am so sick of seeing the personal attacks on the VA, and how she is "ugly" or "slept with someone" to get the job. The sexism towards Chobot is appalling. It doesn't matter if a woman chooses to act or pose in a sexy manner, you shouldn't be so incredibly awful to her. Funny thing is, I've seen Mark Vanderloo in plenty of risqué photos, and yet no-one implies that he ****d his way into being Commander Shepard.

Mark Vanderloo is different.

Firstly, his profession is actually that of a model - he's been a model for years.

Secondly, he isn't actually involved in Mass Effect in any way - he doesn't VA or anything. BW simply decided to model his face as Shepard's and presumably he gave them the OK, that was the limit to his involvement.

Thirdly, he's one option for Shepard's facial display - don't like his face? No problem, make your own!

I don't understand. Chobot is a presenter/host, does that totally disqualify her from acting sexy? How does being a model make it acceptable in your eyes? Also, you are saying if Vanderloo was directly involved with Mass Effect you would give him the same hate you are giving Chobot? I sincerely doubt it. 

And you don't like Allers? Don't bring her on the Normandy! 

I just commented on liking or not liking Allers in my previous post: I don't particularly dislike her and agreed with you about her being optional.

On the distinction between Chobot and Vanderloo...if we're really going there then I'll let out a big sigh, prepare for this topic to probably get locked or loads of stupid hate to come:

Firstly, Katherine, it worries me that you think those pictures are 'sexy'. They're not. I apparently can't use the word to describe them since it'll incite the mob with their pitch-forks but 'sexy' usually goes hand-in-hand with 'classy'.

Secondly, the distinction: Vanderloo does what he does because that is his job: through and through. He gets paid to take pictures where he might not be wearing a top etc. Chobot's pictures were done to progress her through an industry that has (or should have) nothing to do with that kind of content. It is tantamount to a woman getting a position at an Accounting firm because she turned up to the interview with a low-cut top - do you understand the distinction I'm trying to make here? It's in the mindset or intention behind it.

Thirdly, if Vanderloo was a VA in Mass Effect purely because he 'looked pretty' as a model then I would be annoyed by that, yes. Perhaps I wouldn't be as annoyed because of the point I explained above but I would still be frustrated that someone got in as a VA with no VA experience whatsoever ahead of other real VAs because he "looked good on camera".

We're seeing the same kind of degeneration in Hollywood: numerous actors and actresses who can't seem to string two lines together yet "look good" are drowning the industry these days (Megan Fox anyone?) - no wonder I haven't been to the movies for a long time!

This is why I abhor the accusation that this is sexist because it isn't specific to women: I hate it when people get somewhere ahead of others with far more integrity, skill and experience because they look good in industries where their looks are quite honestly irrelevant: that's made doubly worse when they're writhing around in photos to get where they are.

Perfect example: I can count on one hand how many older women I've seen as news readers these days.

This isn't specific to men or women, it's universal and it's a pandemic of modern society. Unfortunately, it does happen, but that doesn't make it OK.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 avril 2012 - 08:49 .

[FS3D]

Katherine wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Katherine wrote...

I don't like her for two reasons:

1. They could have modeled Tali instead of using their resources on Allers
2. It seemed like a payoff to IGN

HOWEVER, I am so sick of seeing the personal attacks on the VA, and how she is "ugly" or "slept with someone" to get the job. The sexism towards Chobot is appalling. It doesn't matter if a woman chooses to act or pose in a sexy manner, you shouldn't be so incredibly awful to her. Funny thing is, I've seen Mark Vanderloo in plenty of risqué photos, and yet no-one implies that he ****d his way into being Commander Shepard.

Mark Vanderloo is different.

Firstly, his profession is actually that of a model - he's been a model for years.

Secondly, he isn't actually involved in Mass Effect in any way - he doesn't VA or anything. BW simply decided to model his face as Shepard's and presumably he gave them the OK, that was the limit to his involvement.

Thirdly, he's one option for Shepard's facial display - don't like his face? No problem, make your own!

I don't understand. Chobot is a presenter/host, does that totally disqualify her from acting sexy?

Being a host and a presenter on a gaming site does not magically give you the talent necessary to do effective voice acting.

How does being a model make it acceptable in your eyes?

Way to miss the point. Read the post again, will you, please?

Also, you are saying if Vanderloo was directly involved with Mass Effect you would give him the same hate you are giving Chobot? I sincerely doubt it. 

And you don't like Allers? Don't bring her on the Normandy! 

Again... Way to miss the point. The explanation has been given. You even quoted it. Why are you ignoring the cogent point... That being that essential time and effort was wasted on a character that was in essence, pointless, when compared to one that was critical to the game's plot?

[Melra]

Why in hell would they spend resources on something as insignificant as Tali's face? Spending all of that on something like that would be completely dumb, not only is she dead in some of the playthroughs, but it still wouldn't add a whole lot into the game.

I guess the idea behind Allers was good, but the execution was lacking, mainly because the VA was so inexperienced and the looks were annoying.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Kawamura wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

another thread about bashing on chobot just got locked like 10 min ago, so standby.

Haha is that why I couldn't post on the other forum about her? Don't they know for every Chobot forum they close 3 more will open up? 
Hell I still don't know where she came from now the girl who did Madison from heavy rain? THAT was a voice actress. 

I thought it was related to how ugly the responses were getting. 

People are really showing their bad sides on this.

I've seen some pretty bad stuff so yeah you are right but if she can't take the hate what the hell is she doing on the gamer side of the world. It's not a kind world at all. 

I don't care about it one way or the other all I know is there is a problem when I think the voice actors for the marines in Halo were better constructed than Chobot's character. 

Hell it's even worse that Halo's ending was constructed so much better and they're still getting a sequal. Mass effect is doing the exact same thing but with an ending some (not me but some) consider to be the worst ending of all time....what a twisted world gaming has become...i remember back when dinosaurs and SNES roamed the earth...good times. 

[Myrmedus]

Melrache wrote...

Why in hell would they spend resources on something as insignificant as Tali's face? Spending all of that on something like that would be completely dumb, not only is she dead in some of the playthroughs, but it still wouldn't add a whole lot into the game.

I guess the idea behind Allers was good, but the execution was lacking, mainly because the VA was so inexperienced and the looks were annoying.

I didn't romance Tali but I think you'll find the great number of fans who did don't consider her face insignificant.

Also, Allers wasn't in the game much either so you could argue modelling her face was quite unnecessary (unlike Miranda, for instance).

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Melrache wrote...

Why in hell would they spend resources on something as insignificant as Tali's face? Spending all of that on something like that would be completely dumb, not only is she dead in some of the playthroughs, but it still wouldn't add a whole lot into the game.

I guess the idea behind Allers was good, but the execution was lacking, mainly because the VA was so inexperienced and the looks were annoying.

Because you can save her make her a love interest and the face was already there all you had to do was remove the mask and show the voice actress. They didn't even bother to do that. And I personally loved Tali more than I'd ever give a damn about Liara or Ashely....actually who DID care about ashely? And for all the lack of effort into her face they sure as hell put a ton of effort into her character, development, and love for Shepard. 

[DannieCraft]

Hate is a very strong word I don't use much, but I didn't enjoy having Allers on the Normandy.
She felt like a very unnecessary character that took a lot of screen time that could have been better used with some other character, maybe ME2 crew... Wong would have been a great choice, it is sad she was lost on Twitter.

Some of the interviews with Allers were good, and gave war supplies, but I really never saw the real reason for her to be aboard the Normandy. The interviews could have been done from the citadel anytime the Normandy docked.

[frozn89]

I guess people dislike Allers because a lot of them wanted Emily Wong, including me, though I don't dislike Allers. Also, the VA is not an actress, and she sounds rather monotone and boring to some I guess, and the fact that she works for IGN doesn't make things better.

[78stonewobble]

Myrmedus wrote...

Firstly, Katherine, it worries me that you think those pictures are 'sexy'. They're not. I apparently can't use the word to describe them since it'll incite the mob with their pitch-forks but 'sexy' usually goes hand-in-hand with 'classy'.

Can I just interject that your subjective taste in what is "sexy" is not an universally acceptet fact.

It's a subjective oppinion.

[rma2110]

It just seems strange to me that BioWare would hire an amature like Jessica Chobot to voice any of their characters. They usually pick nothing but the best voice actors for even minor characters. It's one of things that I think makes their games stand out.

Chobot just sticks out like a sore thumb in middle of all those professionals, and I csn't help but see IGN flashing before me every time I see her. It's a cheap stunt. You're better than this BioWare, or at least you used to be

Modifié par rma2110, 08 avril 2012 - 08:57 .

[Paragon Fury]

I don't have a problem with Allers....until you get above the neckline.

Then it looks like one of those wax models got held to an open flame for a while.

[Kath]

Myrmedus wrote...

I just commented on liking or not liking Allers in my previous post: I don't particularly dislike her and agreed with you about her being optional.

On the distinction between Chobot and Vanderloo...if we're really going there then I'll let out a big sigh, prepare for this topic to probably get locked or loads of stupid hate to come:

Firstly, Katherine, it worries me that you think those pictures are 'sexy'. They're not. I apparently can't use the word to describe them since it'll incite the mob with their pitch-forks but 'sexy' usually goes hand-in-hand with 'classy'.

Secondly, the distinction: Vanderloo does what he does because that is his job: through and through. He gets paid to take pictures where he might not be wearing a top etc. Chobot's pictures were done to progress her through an industry that has (or should have) nothing to do with that kind of content. It is tantamount to a woman getting a position at an Accounting firm because she turned up to the interview with a low-cut top - do you understand the distinction I'm trying to make here? It's in the mindset or intention behind it.

Thirdly, if Vanderloo was a VA in Mass Effect purely because he 'looked pretty' as a model then I would be annoyed by that, yes. Perhaps I wouldn't be as annoyed because of the point I explained above but I would still be frustrated that someone got in as a VA with no VA experience whatsoever ahead of other real VAs because he "looked good on camera".

We're seeing the same kind of degeneration in Hollywood: numerous actors and actresses who can't seem to string two lines together yet "look good" are drowning the industry these days - no wonder I haven't been to the movies for a long time!

This is why I abhor the accusation that this is sexist because it isn't specific to women: I hate it when people get somewhere ahead of others with far more integrity, skill and experience because they look good in industries where their looks are quite honestly irrelevant. This isn't specific to men or women, it's universal and it's a pandemic of modern society. Unfortunately, it does happen, but that doesn't make it OK.

Listen, I totally get not liking the character because of wasted resources, possibly bad voice acting, whatever. What I'm not cool with his the personal attacks on Chobot, like what you did with posting her pictures and acting like she a less deserving person because of them.

Personally, no, I did not find her pictures sexy, but I understand that was she was going for. They actually came across as goofy to me, because I've had friends that have taken similar pictures. They did so because they are young and having fun, not because they are bad people. The implications of what makes a woman "classy" are troubling however. I often see that word thrown around as an excuse to insult a woman doing anything remotely sexual. 

Again, I agree that someone with more experiance probably could have gotten the job and the fact that she works for IGN probably had something to do with it, but I see no reason to personally attack her.

And I'm pretty sure Vanderloo was in fact used only because he is "pretty". 

[Kawamura]

78stonewobble wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Firstly, Katherine, it worries me that you think those pictures are 'sexy'. They're not. I apparently can't use the word to describe them since it'll incite the mob with their pitch-forks but 'sexy' usually goes hand-in-hand with 'classy'.

Can I just interject that your subjective taste in what is "sexy" is not an universally acceptet fact.

It's a subjective oppinion.

The word they were hinting at was "****y". Us mobbers might get our pitch-forks out and attack them again for using it, they're afraid, it seems. 

Which, frankly, I feel no sympathy for. Myrmedus already has me on ignore for trolling. If anyone else calls them out on using the word ****, they can ignore them, too. 

[Kath]

FS3D wrote...

*snip*

Being a host and a presenter on a gaming site does not magically give you the talent necessary to do effective voice acting.

*snip*

Way to miss the point. Read the post again, will you, please?

*snip*

Again... Way to miss the point. The explanation has been given. You even quoted it. Why are you ignoring the cogent point... That being that essential time and effort was wasted on a character that was in essence, pointless, when compared to one that was critical to the game's plot?

And you totally missed my points. It's fine to dislike the character because of wasted resources, bad voice acting, whatever. Personal attacks on Chobot, however, are unacceptable. 

[TheLostGenius]

I liked her in the game. Not my favorite character, but she has a charming voice and her character model...had nice assets.

[Kawamura]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

another thread about bashing on chobot just got locked like 10 min ago, so standby.

Haha is that why I couldn't post on the other forum about her? Don't they know for every Chobot forum they close 3 more will open up? 
Hell I still don't know where she came from now the girl who did Madison from heavy rain? THAT was a voice actress. 

I thought it was related to how ugly the responses were getting. 

People are really showing their bad sides on this.

I've seen some pretty bad stuff so yeah you are right but if she can't take the hate what the hell is she doing on the gamer side of the world. It's not a kind world at all. 

I don't care about it one way or the other all I know is there is a problem when I think the voice actors for the marines in Halo were better constructed than Chobot's character. 

Hell it's even worse that Halo's ending was constructed so much better and they're still getting a sequal. Mass effect is doing the exact same thing but with an ending some (not me but some) consider to be the worst ending of all time....what a twisted world gaming has become...i remember back when dinosaurs and SNES roamed the earth...good times. 

I don't see it as "she needs to take the hate". I see it as "we need to be better people as a group". This isn't so much about my feelings to how she feels, it's my feelings being connected with the gamer community. 

I don't like what I see. I want it changed. 

Now. Complaining about the character being crappy and the voice acting being poor, that I'm fine with. In fact, that I love.

[FS3D]

Katherine wrote...
Again, I agree that someone with more experiance probably could have gotten the job and the fact that she works for IGN probably had something to do with it, but I see no reason to personally attack her.

Nor do I. I think it was a business decision to get IGN to give a favourable rating on review.

And if any Mod wants to accuse us of lying, the writing is on the wall. We've been lied to by BioWare and EA about the content of the game, so sanctioning threads and users for "lying" when you guys have no evidence refuting our statements, and after having lied to us about the game itself, would be an extreme act of hypocrisy.

[FS3D]

Katherine wrote...

FS3D wrote...

*snip*

Being a host and a presenter on a gaming site does not magically give you the talent necessary to do effective voice acting.

*snip*

Way to miss the point. Read the post again, will you, please?

*snip*

Again... Way to miss the point. The explanation has been given. You even quoted it. Why are you ignoring the cogent point... That being that essential time and effort was wasted on a character that was in essence, pointless, when compared to one that was critical to the game's plot?

And you totally missed my points. It's fine to dislike the character because of wasted resources, bad voice acting, whatever. Personal attacks on Chobot, however, are unacceptable. 

You proceed on the assumptions that those are the only reasons.