93 réponses à ce sujet

[sedrikhcain]

chris, that must be it but it's hard for me to imagine that any of the gameplay is constructed with soldier class in mind.

[nullgene]

Warp Ammo with ammo passive gives you 60/60/112% damage increase for health, armor and barriers respectively. Bring someone who can debuff mook shields (Tali/Garrus/EDI) someone to pull mooks out of cover (Javik/Liara) disruptor ammo for hard shielded enemies (e.g. Prime, Atlases) and you can rock even Insanity.

[Pressedcat]

The only way I ever really enjoyed playing the soldier class in ME2 was by actively using all the weapons at my disposal. By buffing the weapons with different ammo powers, they could all be made to fit different roles: the assualt rifle and sniper with protection debuffing ammos would be used to break through defences and assassinate priority threats respectively, whilst the carnifex and shotgun would both be equipped with cryo ammo to disable enemies at different ranges.

Assualt rush could then be used to add mobility and resilience, whilst concussive shot stunned opponents or shattered those frozen with cryo ammo.

The introduction of weapon weight in ME3 has seriously restricted the number of weapons you can comfortably carry if you hope to use powers regularly, and this problem is made worse by the fact that recharge times do not increase linearly with encumbrance. This has encouraged a two weapon loadout that often promotes a fairly restrictive playing style (eg sniper rile & assualt rifle, then duck behind cover and hose everything down with inferno ammo until it stops moving).

To my mind, the soldier should be able to carry the basic avenger/mantis/katana/predator loadout, all at rank 1, and have a recharge rate modifier of 0%. People would then be able to mix the load-out up a bit and decide whether they want to upgrage their basic weapons and be a power spammer, or carry a couple of the heavier weapons, invest a few talent points in increasing weight capacity, and still not have to sit there with a 20 second plus AR recharge.

[jrus018]

played soldier on insanity difficulty wasn't hard at all, it was mostly easy!

yes soldier is boring to play but that's what a soldier is in this game... bullet time + shoot! yes they nerfed down the soldier making its class balanced, not overpowered (compare from ME1&2), and definitely not useless at all!

with the right management on character build, weapons, armor, squadmate, tactics, and gameplay... i would say soldier is a top tier class in single player!

tier class for me in single player: 1 vanguard, 2 engineer, 3 soldier, 4 infiltrator, 5 adept, 6 sentinel

i think the people who whine about it cuz they got used to the overpowered soldier with no challenge at all making it easy for them while on this game takes a different approach with soldier and they are not used to it!

[sedrikhcain]

Over powered isn't much of an issue in a single player game anyway but I did an insanity playthrough on ME2 with my 1 soldier shep and -- while I admit I'm not gamer pro -- it certainly wasn't easy, compared with playing on any of the other classes.

And the solo Arrival mission was really difficult. You rely on your squadmates for debuffs when you're soldier class on insanity.

[sedrikhcain]

Pressedcat wrote...

The only way I ever really enjoyed playing the soldier class in ME2 was by actively using all the weapons at my disposal. By buffing the weapons with different ammo powers, they could all be made to fit different roles: the assualt rifle and sniper with protection debuffing ammos would be used to break through defences and assassinate priority threats respectively, whilst the carnifex and shotgun would both be equipped with cryo ammo to disable enemies at different ranges.

 

I made my soldier guy a munitions expert as well. Only thing that made sense to me.

[Pressedcat]

sedrikhcain wrote...


I made my soldier guy a munitions expert as well. Only thing that made sense to me.

My first playthrough of ME2 I went for the widow and did the assualt rifle/sniper ranged AR soldier and really didn't enjoy it much. It was certainly effective, it just wasn't much fun.

Unfortunately, at the moment the weight mechanics in ME3 seem to encourage a similar playstyle, and in not following it, I constantly feel as if I am playing at a handicap. This problem would probably be somewhat reduced if I had access to rank X weapons and their reduced weight, but that would then demand a lot of credit investment in weapons early on if you wished to have a full loadout, and would discourage experimenting with different weapons as you discovered them.

[Romudeth]

There's no way I could have beaten the game on insanity with any other class other than Soldier. Time dilation saves your butt constantly. I agree that the Soldier class is the most boring but to me it's the best class to deal with lots of enemies in a short amount of time. It's not as fun but it's definitely the most effective class in pitched battles.

[Jestina]

That's the problem with soldier now...they were weapon experts but now ME3 is heavily shifted to casters and all classes are weapons experts now, so soldiers are obsolete.

[Ice Cold J]

I see where you're coming from with the lack of weapon exclusivity, but realize that, while soldiers no longer have the weapon advantage, they are not as power-reliable-heavy (if you know what I mean) as other classes. In other words, soldiers' powers aren't THAT necessary to their usage ability, meaning they can carry stronger, heavier weapons without having the strongest part of their arsenal (their powers) diminished.
Plus, adrenaline rush is still a great power in the SP and frag grenade is still a great crowd control and anti-armor move in SP AND MP.

[sedrikhcain]

Pressedcat wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...


I made my soldier guy a munitions expert as well. Only thing that made sense to me.

My first playthrough of ME2 I went for the widow and did the assualt rifle/sniper ranged AR soldier and really didn't enjoy it much. It was certainly effective, it just wasn't much fun.

Unfortunately, at the moment the weight mechanics in ME3 seem to encourage a similar playstyle, and in not following it, I constantly feel as if I am playing at a handicap. This problem would probably be somewhat reduced if I had access to rank X weapons and their reduced weight, but that would then demand a lot of credit investment in weapons early on if you wished to have a full loadout, and would discourage experimenting with different weapons as you discovered them.

The sniper loadout is very tempting but I stuck with a collector AR as my trusty sidekick in my soldier playthrough, purely for roleplay reasons. I switched ammo and such but stuck mainly with the one gun, for roleplay purposes. He was a guy who could use everything but became emotionally attached to the AR in the story I constructed for him.

[jrus018]

how to create an overpowered soldier in me3, lets see...

Adrenaline Rush: 4-Dilation & Damage, 5-Duration (+75% weapon damage)
Combat Mastery: 4-Damage, 5-Headshots, 6-Weapon Master (+25% weapon damage)
Incendiary Ammo: 4-Damage, 5-Headshots, 6-Explosive Burst
*Explosive Burst does 150 damage for an AOE of 2.5 meters, and has a 50% chance explosion per bullet or even pellet for a shotgun, you can get a 175 damage if you have the Fortification as a bonus power with rank 5 Power Synergy*

Armor: Delumcore Overlay , 4-piece Hahne-Kedar (+50% Weapon Damage)
Shadow Broker Intel Terminal Upgrades: 3x Weapon Damage +5% (+15%)
Particle Rifle X : Magazine Upgrade V + Piercing Mod V

Modifié par jrus018, 09 avril 2012 - 02:11 .

[samb]

chrisnabal wrote...

I don't think they ever confirmed a canon class however, it is the default quickplay class in the original Mass Effect and he is seen in heavy armor on the game cover, so...I guess that is where the assumption comes from.

The poster male Shepp in ME2 and ME3 have him using an assault rifle, which for a while was a exclusively for soldiers.  In cutscenes he doesn't use powers and fires avengers.  Hence the belief that he supposed to a soldier by canon. 

And it doesn't change the fact that soldier is useless. The debate is completely or mostly. Leaning more towards completely.  I can't see it doing anything another class can't do better. 

Adrenaline rush didn't have to be nerfed in MP either. Max Payne's new multiplayer is proof of that. 

[Berserku]

jrus018 wrote...

how to create an overpowered soldier in me3, lets see...

Adrenaline Rush: 4-Dilation & Damage, 5-Duration (+75% weapon damage)
Combat Mastery: 4-Damage, 5-Headshots, 6-Weapon Master (+25% weapon damage)
Incendiary Ammo: 4-Damage, 5-Headshots, 6-Explosive Burst
*Explosive Burst does 150 damage for an AOE of 2.5 meters, and has a 50% chance explosion per bullet or even pellet for a shotgun, you can get a 175 damage if you have the Fortification as a bonus power with rank 5 Power Synergy*

Armor: Delumcore Overlay , 4-piece Hahne-Kedar (+50% Weapon Damage)
Shadow Broker Intel Terminal Upgrades: 3x Weapon Damage +5% (+15%)
Particle Rifle X : Magazine Upgrade V + Piercing Mod V

Something like this?
 

[rumination888]

samb wrote...

I can't see it doing anything another class can't do better.

Not sure if serious.

[MarchWaltz]

My soldier only carries the revy (200+% CD rate), and when I find enemies to blast, I have just point and shoot, and when I am almost out, I hit AR (which pops a thermal heatsink), and I keep firing.

By the time AR ends and is off CD, I am still firing, so I pop AR again.

In essence, you can go through all 400 rounds of the revy without stopping.

All you need is enemies!

[SwiftRevenant]

Soldiers do ok, but you have to use equipment to be effective. Biotics/techs/infiltrator all can contribute without using equipment due to their skill set. Even with the recent buffs soldiers are still not that great and I rarely ever see them in gold. It's all infiltrators, engineers, adepts, and a few sentinels here and there.

[samb]

rumination888 wrote...

samb wrote...

I can't see it doing anything another class can't do better.

Not sure if serious.

What can they do that another can't do better?  Really. 

Burst damage with weapons: infiltrator's cloak allows it to tear up enemy ranks with any weapon. Shotgun infiltrators have been in vogue in MP for quite some time. You can get off a proximity mine and two shots off a black widow right out of cloak. Far better than AR which only gives a 60% bonus.  A sniper rifle also slows down time but without a cooldown. 
Tank: sentinel using tech armor and going Rambo is very hard to kill.  Vanguard is basically invincible and has better mobility. It might only carry one weapon but with charge, it has doesn't really need that much. 
those are the main roles for a soldiers and it is clear all those roles are taken by more capable hands. 

[rumination888]

samb wrote...

What can they do that another can't do better?  Really. 

Burst damage with weapons: infiltrator's cloak allows it to tear up enemy ranks with any weapon. Shotgun infiltrators have been in vogue in MP for quite some time. You can get off a proximity mine and two shots off a black widow right out of cloak. Far better than AR which only gives a 60% bonus.  A sniper rifle also slows down time but without a cooldown. 
Tank: sentinel using tech armor and going Rambo is very hard to kill.  Vanguard is basically invincible and has better mobility. It might only carry one weapon but with charge, it has doesn't really need that much. 
those are the main roles for a soldiers and it is clear all those roles are taken by more capable hands. 

MP is one thing, but you also lump SP into the mix.

There isn't a class that can use a weapon more effectively than a Soldier in SP. No class has a better combination of abilities for weapons than AR + Incendiary Ammo + Soldier passives.

[Athenau]

Cloak has a 90% damage bonus (non-sniper) vs 75% for adrenaline rush, but adrenaline rush has instant reload which acts like a multiplier for your total weapon dps which can be way more powerful than 15% extra weapon damage, depending on the weapon.

[Shepard Wins]

I don't play MP much (it's a mindless CoD style massacre for me) and in SP I played Soldier throughout all 3 games. It fits my canon War Hero Spacer Paragon Shepard most. I never complain, in ME3 I used Mattock, Widow and an SMG as sidearm, lots of Incinerating Concussive Shots and some ARs, also Carnage I got from Vega. Works like a charm.

[Abraham_uk]

Can I just make a suggestion?

How about Assault Mage Soldier build. This focuses on combining concussive shot with various powers.

Concussive shot with the amplify evolution

Incendiary Concussive Shot: Fantastic against armour. Causes enemies to panic.
Disruptor Concussive Shot: Fantastic against shields and barriers. Stunning too.
Cryo Concussive Shot: Freeze enemies. Weakens armour too,
Bonus ammo power Concussive Shot: Either is fantastic against armour

The short cooldown on concussive shot will mean frequent spamming of this munition. Run out of ammo, no problem?

I haven't played soldier. So can you tell me if this approach works well?

[Jestina]

Soldiers...
ME1&2...We shoot stuff better than everyone else.
ME3...We used to shoot stuff better than everyone else. Now we just watch the bio explosions.

[capn233]

Soldier is weaker and not quite right due to the changes to Adrenaline Rush and the poor weapon balance as well as the ridiculousness of biotic combos.

However, I enjoyed playing it.

If you are having trouble you could consider taking Energy Drain as a bonus. Frankly I find all the combat bonus powers to be pretty terrible. At any rate, go with the ARush evolution that allows an offensive power to be used, and fire off Energy Drain.

You also need to remember that ARush gives you the instant reload. This is very nice with the Sniper Rifles. Take something like the Mantis, shoot a Marauder in the head, then hit ARush and shoot him again. No need to worry about shield gates. Alternatively, shoot at a Brute with the Black Widow.... fire the first couple shots then hit Adrenaline Rush to finish it off.

I prefer to level Concussive Shot so that it has the active ammo power.

I did the majority of my import and NG+ soldier using just Viper/Mantis/Black Widow with the Vindicator. I think that is a pretty solid loadout. Going with more weapons (as in an ME2 load) is not only pointless, due to the huge number of near useless weapons, but also adversely affects cooldown. In NG+ you can take Revenant X and Black Widow X because they aren't too heavy by then.

I also recommend Incendiary and Disruptor ammo. You don't have anything else you need to spend points on, and they are pretty good this game. Cryo is not quite as useful as in ME2 imo.

All in all, even though this class isn't quite the same, and may be relatively weak, it can still be fun and complete the game.

[Elecbender]

jrus018 wrote...

how to create an overpowered soldier in me3, lets see...

Adrenaline Rush: 4-Dilation & Damage, 5-Duration (+75% weapon damage)
Combat Mastery: 4-Damage, 5-Headshots, 6-Weapon Master (+25% weapon damage)
Incendiary Ammo: 4-Damage, 5-Headshots, 6-Explosive Burst
*Explosive Burst does 150 damage for an AOE of 2.5 meters, and has a 50% chance explosion per bullet or even pellet for a shotgun, you can get a 175 damage if you have the Fortification as a bonus power with rank 5 Power Synergy*

Armor: Delumcore Overlay , 4-piece Hahne-Kedar (+50% Weapon Damage)
Shadow Broker Intel Terminal Upgrades: 3x Weapon Damage +5% (+15%)
Particle Rifle X : Magazine Upgrade V + Piercing Mod V

Yeah I was making a build based around pure damage.  But I was using the Chakram Launcher.  Under AR, that thing is godly.  I had to check several times to see if it was still on Insanity because I was killing enemies like flies.

Soldier is definitely not lacking in the damage department.