296 réponses à ce sujet

[metawanderer]

That is what scares me and why I waiting till the Extended Cut comes out till I play ME 3 again. My choice at the end of the game was synthesis thinking that everyone will be united to create another Mass Relay or at least find a suitable alternative. However if the IT is right, I have ruined the entire galaxy and the Reapers win.

[Mr.House]

EvilMind wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

I have no idea what are you talking about, I think Synthesis is best option. So far I dont see any good argument against it in this thread. I'd love to hear facts why you think its bad, only facts, not vague assumptions

That's pretty idiotic statement. The only thing you can get is speculation and assumption since we barely know anything about synthesis to begin with. I may as well ask you for facts as to why it's good, only facts, not vague assumptions.

If we're not allowed to make any assumption at all, then Kid said its the final form of evolution. Basically you're saying "evoluiton is bad", I dont think so, thats why I think its the best option

Starbrat also says SHepard will die if she picks destory but she can sruviive. Starbrat is a liar.

[Zix13]

EvilMind wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

I have no idea what are you talking about, I think Synthesis is best option. So far I dont see any good argument against it in this thread. I'd love to hear facts why you think its bad, only facts, not vague assumptions

That's pretty idiotic statement. The only thing you can get is speculation and assumption since we barely know anything about synthesis to begin with. I may as well ask you for facts as to why it's good, only facts, not vague assumptions.

If we're not allowed to make any assumption at all, then Kid said its the final form of evolution. Basically you're saying "evoluiton is bad", I dont think so, thats why I think its the best option

Because the reapers twisted logic and ego = truth? This is the same guy who says synthetics are kill you so you won't be killed by synthetics. You actually think the kid is telling the truth? God damn. Critical thinking, try it. 

[wright1978]

Synthesis. The future dreamed up by a genocidal deity. Yeah that's really going to work out well. He's not going to have skimped on the research into the implications of his hair brained scheme. As pointed out here there's so many problems with the whole idea. Oh and his all powerful killing machines will hang around just in case they need to reap all life after all. All i'm saying is that extended cut going to have to be pretty special if it's going to convince me galactic rape is a future ever to be picked.  

[Orthodox Infidel]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Geth_Huntha wrote...

You've obviously never played Deus Ex: Invisible War, lol.

Sorry, what? I can't hear yooouuu!

I haven't actually played IW. I started it but just didn't like it much. Regardless of what actuallly happened, though, merging everyone was not the decision you were asked to make in DX.

True, but It is one of four decisions you can make at the end of DX:IW. Arguably, it's one of the "better" choices. If that universe ever had "better" choices... I will avoid saying more in case you ever pick that inferior sequel up again.

[SuperVulcan]

I agree, though I did pick synthesis once. I was just curious to see how Joker would look. Then I was so disgusted that I never picked control and have stayed with Destroy ever since.

[NormanRawn]

Pottumuusi wrote...

NormanRawn wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

You are an omniscient god.
You see a horrible mass murderer getting away with it.
One day he decides to go and live as a hermit in the middle of the wilderness, and you know with absolute certainty that he repents his actions and will never do anything evil ever again.

What do you do?

The Catalyst doesn't regret what he has done, he just realizes he can't maintain the Cycle anymore because  Shepard opened the Citadel arms. And he became worthy to hear the  nonsense of the Reaper Master.

The Catalyst still thought the Cycle was a good idea, he is just presented with new possibilities because he thinks his "solution" won't work anymore.

If it was up to him, he would have kept harvesting, instead of having his Reapers fail. But Shepard proved the time of his "solution" was over.

The regret part isn't really important, it's that you know that he will never kill people again, doesn't really matter why.
Regret just made sense in this thought experiment.

In regards to Synthesis. Knowing at any moment, those things could realize they are STILL more powerful then the rest of the races in the galaxy, and wipe out everything they see as weak, then yes, I would kill them.

[EvilMind]

Zix13 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

I have no idea what are you talking about, I think Synthesis is best option. So far I dont see any good argument against it in this thread. I'd love to hear facts why you think its bad, only facts, not vague assumptions

That's pretty idiotic statement. The only thing you can get is speculation and assumption since we barely know anything about synthesis to begin with. I may as well ask you for facts as to why it's good, only facts, not vague assumptions.

If we're not allowed to make any assumption at all, then Kid said its the final form of evolution. Basically you're saying "evoluiton is bad", I dont think so, thats why I think its the best option

Because the reapers twisted logic and ego = truth? This is the same guy who says synthetics are kill you so you won't be killed by synthetics. You actually think the kid is telling the truth? God damn. Critical thinking, try it. 

Thats the only information source we have, if you say hes lying about Synthesis, then i'll say his lying about Controll/Destroy too. Maybe those 2 options will kill all life in the end, thats what Reapers wanted all along. 

If Kid is telling the truth, that means Destroy option is = death of all organics due to the future synthetics vs organics war.

Modifié par EvilMind, 08 avril 2012 - 08:35 .

[SpiffsGhost]

[quote]Mr.House wrote...


[/quote]
Starbrat also says SHepard will die if she picks destory but she can sruviive. Starbrat is a liar.

[/quote]

The starchild never explicitly states that sheperd will die in the destroy ending. It is implied because Sheperd is comprised of a generous amount of synthetic materials. The catalysts actual words were more along the lines of, "Even you are mostly synthetic."  This is quite different from the other two choices, where the catalyst says outright that Shep will die.

- Spiff

[cardinalally]

EvilMind wrote...

So Shepard should have asked every single life form in galaxy if they prefer synthesis or not, so god forbid, he wont make that choice for them? Then why Shepard makes Destroy/Control decisions by himself and dont require everyones consent? I'm pretty sure those choices also have major impact on the future of the galaxy.

I believe that synthesis, as they said, is the final evolution and it has many obvious benefits. I dont see any reason why anyone would turn that down

In addition to all of the moral and ethical implications of the end that I don't like and others have already discussed so I won't go over them again.  The idea that there is a final evolution is well just flat out wrong.  Evolution has no goal, it is random therefore there can be no end.  Furthermore once a species stops evolving it stops being able to adapt to changing circumstance therefore it stagnates and dies out.  Perhaps we as a species are heading to a tech. singularity but this theme is not talked about in game and forcing it upon the races of galaxy before they are ready is probably worse.  Remember Mordin, who talked about what happens when you give a species tech. they are not ready for because they didn't develop it themselves...Problematic.  That is what I essentially see synethesis as.  The races of the galaxy aren't ready for it because it wasn't something they worked for themselves.

*Agree with others moral issues this is just in addition to all the other problems listed 

[Spongecakes]

It's a stupid ending and the implications are... unpleasant.

1)The god child gives no guarantee that fusing organics with reapers will not result in everybody becoming husks, tools for the reapers. In fact you could argue that it's the reason the Reapers leave everybody alone in that ending... just as how they left the Collectors at the galactic core until they were required.

2)We have no idea how organics will behave once outfitted with the tech, I doubt it will only have a cosmetic effect. It could very well alter the way we think, express ourselves, invent new technology, etc. At best the new tech merely augments organic functioning at some levels, at worst it replaces it. Mordin painted a very startling picture in ME2 on what could happen in the latter scenario.

[Geth_Huntha]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

Geth_Huntha wrote...

You've obviously never played Deus Ex: Invisible War, lol.

Sorry, what? I can't hear yooouuu!

I haven't actually played IW. I started it but just didn't like it much. Regardless of what actuallly happened, though, merging everyone was not the decision you were asked to make in DX.

True, but It is one of four decisions you can make at the end of DX:IW. Arguably, it's one of the "better" choices. If that universe ever had "better" choices... I will avoid saying more in case you ever pick that inferior sequel up again.

Say what you will about IW but at least that game had multiple endings no matter how inferior it was.

[Xandurpein]

It's obvious that there is a great divide between the players who simply accept the Starchild's words about the inevitable synthetic/organic conflict as gospel and those who thinks there is no reason to accept his words as truth. Personally I think his so-called dilemma is bogus and just a form of technophobia. I don't see anything in the previous games to fore-shadow this dilemma either, so I simply reject the Starchild's assertions outright. Simply put; I put zero ceredence to the Starchild's claims, hence Synthesis seems just offensive.

[Zix13]

EvilMind wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

I have no idea what are you talking about, I think Synthesis is best option. So far I dont see any good argument against it in this thread. I'd love to hear facts why you think its bad, only facts, not vague assumptions

That's pretty idiotic statement. The only thing you can get is speculation and assumption since we barely know anything about synthesis to begin with. I may as well ask you for facts as to why it's good, only facts, not vague assumptions.

If we're not allowed to make any assumption at all, then Kid said its the final form of evolution. Basically you're saying "evoluiton is bad", I dont think so, thats why I think its the best option

Because the reapers twisted logic and ego = truth? This is the same guy who says synthetics are kill you so you won't be killed by synthetics. You actually think the kid is telling the truth? God damn. Critical thinking, try it. 

Thats the only information source we have, if you say hes lying about Synthesis, then i'll say his lying about Controll/Destroy too. Maybe those 2 options will kill all life in the end, thats what Reapers wanted all along. 

You're right, you can't trust him on anything. But you just bought into the "Reaper are the pinacle of evolution an existance" logic, which is obviously an opinion that would only be logical to a machine. Besides we know he's a liar, you can survive in destroy. 

[The Angry One]

Pottumuusi wrote...

More importantly, do you think that criminals should be punished for revenge, even if it doesn't serve any purpose and no concievable benefit can come from it?

There's no statute of limitations on mass murder.
These crimes must be accounted for, one way or another.

Modifié par The Angry One, 08 avril 2012 - 08:39 .

[LystAP]

They win no matter what, because everyone is so dependent on those mass relays they'll rebuild them again, advancing organics down the same path as the Reapers intended.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Geth_Huntha wrote...

Say what you will about IW but at least that game had multiple endings no matter how inferior it was.

True. The inferiority only exists relative to the game that it followed.

[Bill Casey]

EvilMind wrote...

If we're not allowed to make any assumption at all, then Kid said its the final form of evolution. Basically you're saying "evoluiton is bad", I dont think so, thats why I think its the best option

Saren Arterius: "The Relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign, and experience a true brebirth"

Sovereign: "We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence."



You know what else the Reapers are?
Synthesis!

Legion: (On the Reapers) "Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies."

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[Pottumuusi]

The Angry One wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

More importantly, do you think that criminals should be punished for revenge, even if it doesn't serve any purpose and no concievable benefit can come from it?

There's no statute of limitations on mass murder.
These crimes must be accounted for, one way or another.

You still didn't answer if you thought we should get revenge on criminals.
In my opinion the only reason to imprison murderers is to keep them from killing people.
You can even give them real food and show them a movie every weekend. It's not like anyone who is ****ed up enough in the head to become a murderer is going to be scared out of it by the possibility of punishment.

Modifié par Pottumuusi, 08 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[EvilMind]

By the definition Synthesis would mean that Organics gain all advantages and disadvantages that Synthetics have, right? There are tons of advantages that Synthetics have like immortality / communication speed and etc., there are some disadvantages, but I doubt that they're signifficant to compare to all advantages.

So Synthesis means Organics lose most of their flaws. They dont lose free will or ability to adapt, they're still organic life but with all advantages of synthetics. Maybe Kid is wrong about "final evolution", but its definately next step

Modifié par EvilMind, 08 avril 2012 - 08:45 .

[SpiffsGhost]

cardinalally wrote...



In addition to all of the moral and ethical implications of the end that I don't like and others have already discussed so I won't go over them again.  The idea that there is a final evolution is well just flat out wrong.  Evolution has no goal, it is random therefore there can be no end.  Furthermore once a species stops evolving it stops being able to adapt to changing circumstance therefore it stagnates and dies out.  Perhaps we as a species are heading to a tech. singularity but this theme is not talked about in game and forcing it upon the races of galaxy before they are ready is probably worse.  Remember Mordin, who talked about what happens when you give a species tech. they are not ready for because they didn't develop it themselves...Problematic.  That is what I essentially see synethesis as.  The races of the galaxy aren't ready for it because it wasn't something they worked for themselves.

*Agree with others moral issues this is just in addition to all the other problems listed 

I actually don't think what the Catalyst meant by "Final Evolution" was the literal definition of evolution. As long as organic life exists (even in a 50/50 mix) there will be genetic variation and evolution will continue. What I believe he meant was the Singularity, where organics and synthetics are inevitably headed.

I actually find your arguments from Mordin's dialogue compelling, and I think this might be one case where there could be an unforseen struggle with life in the galaxy. However, Sheperd's sacrifice will not go unnoticed, and his/her ability to bring the galaxy together will still make that struggle something that the galaxy faces as a cohesive unit.

- Spiff

[Bill Casey]

"No glands. Replaced by tech. No digestive system. Replaced by tech. No soul. Replaced by tech."
- Mordin Solus

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 avril 2012 - 08:46 .

[The Angry One]

Pottumuusi wrote...


You still didn't answer if you thought we should get revenge on criminals.
In my opinion the only reason to imprison murderers is to keep them from killing people.
You can even give them real food and show them a movie every weekend. It's not like anyone who is ****ed up enough in the head to become a murderer is going to be scared out of it by the possibility of punishment.

It is not a question of revenge. You cannot let someone who's commited crimes on that scale to spend their lives free. It is a disservice to all of their victims.

[wright1978]

Bill Casey wrote...

"No glands. Replaced by tech. No digestive system. Replaced by tech. No soul. Replaced by tech."
- Mordin Solus

Yep another great reason not to choose synthesis.

[Eudaemonium]

SpiffsGhost wrote...

Mr.House wrote...


Starbrat also says SHepard will die if she picks destory but she can sruviive. Starbrat is a liar.

The starchild never explicitly states that sheperd will die in the destroy ending. It is implied because Sheperd is comprised of a generous amount of synthetic materials. The catalysts actual words were more along the lines of, "Even you are mostly synthetic."  This is quite different from the other two choices, where the catalyst says outright that Shep will die.

- Spiff

Thing is, Weeke's remarks vis-avis EDI seem to suggest that her surviving Destroy is not a bug. He suggests that he argued that she should die since she was based on Reaper Tech, which implies it was a conscious decision to not have her always die. This seems to imply that Starchild is at least misinformed on exactly how the Crucible operates in the destroy ending, if not outright lying to you.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 08 avril 2012 - 09:05 .