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[blurr1985]

The dialog with the Prothean VI on Thessia reveals the most vital information in the entire game (arguably the series).

Shepard asks "why didn't you use the crucible in your time?" The VI says: "We were sabotaged from within.  Splinter groups believed we could dominate the Reapers rather than destroy him.  We later found out they were indoctrinated."

This directly foreshadows the final choice that Shepard is faced with.  It pretty much confirms that Control and Synthesis are the indoctrinated options.  While choosing to destroy breaks the indoctrination and Shepard wakes up in rubble.

But here it is.  In the most significant dialog in the entire series, the VI says that they've found out that time is cyclical, and that 'patterns repeat' in the galaxy/Universe, but they are not exact, they are 'similar'.

This leads me to believe that, in past cycles, there were other Shepard-like (in character) beings that were faced with the choice.  And all of them chose control; every cycle. Hence why the Reapers still exist in our Shepard's time.

The fact that we see Shepard in the rubble taking a breath means the starchild lied when he said "you have synthetic parts, you will also die" (paraphrasing).

So if we take it that starchild is not trustworthy, then is it really true when he says that Shepard is the "first organic" to ever make it up there? 

Even if you think starchild is telling the truth about that,and Shepard is the first organic up there, then that
still leaves the possibilty that the previous Shepard-like beings were synthetic or even something not organic or synthetic.

Some might  say, "oh but the crucible never got built, it was built over millions of years.."  But since patterns repeat, then that means the Crucible did get built before, if you go back far enough, perhaps billions of years.

You have to expand your concept and scope of time.

Shepard's decision to destroy is the most significant decision ever made in the entire history of the galaxy because he was the only one ever, that chose to break the cycle.

PS: I 100% believe in I.T. But this particular theory is independent of whether you believe I.T. or not.

Modifié par blurr1985, 10 avril 2012 - 05:19 .

[SnakesSon]

But guys, but guys!

Control is blue! And nobody dies! Probably. Unless they do. Later on.

Good job digging this up, but almost everything has been said about how wrong all of the choices are, even my beloved Destruction. Not to say I don't think it's the best option.

Still, nice find.

[blurr1985]

SnakesSon wrote...

But guys, but guys!

Control is blue! And nobody dies! Probably. Unless they do. Later on.

Good job digging this up, but almost everything has been said about how wrong all of the choices are, even my beloved Destruction. Not to say I don't think it's the best option.

Still, nice find.

Hey thanks for the feedback and being easy on me; twas' my first post!

[MaskofSkin]

Cool theory.

[Rabid Veggie]

I don't believe that this is correct. This entire cycle is very different from the previous ones. No civilization before this could mount the kind of resistance in this cycle since they always got gutted right from the get go. I believe when the VI says they were betrayed it was by an individual similar too cerberus and the illusive man who screwed their civ over with infighting preventing them from even delivering the crucible.

[Elite Midget]

Rabid Veggie wrote...

I don't believe that this is correct. This entire cycle is very different from the previous ones. No civilization before this could mount the kind of resistance in this cycle since they always got gutted right from the get go. I believe when the VI says they were betrayed it was by an individual similar too cerberus and the illusive man who screwed their civ over with infighting preventing them from even delivering the crucible.

The only cycle that was ever described in detail was the Prothean one. What happened in the others is unknown only that the Reapers won just like this cycle.

[tomcplotts]

nice try, but starbrat literally says you are the first one to make it that far.
reboot...

[IanPolaris]

I think we know that the current cycle is unique in a lot of ways:

1. The Reapers weren't able to take the Citadel (initially anyway) and thus were never able to lock out the Mass Relay Network. That meant the Reapers had to do it the old fashioned way and that gave their victims a chance to resist.

2. This cycle is both cooperative (mostly) and hetrogeneous. That means that one tactic doesn't fit all (unlike the Protheans) and it means that under pressure, the victims can adapt with appalling speed.

3. The technological curve (thanks to humanity) is breaking all the former rules. Normally by this point a species that gains starflight becomes fairly technologically static, but the humans are agressive and NEW and unlike (and far more varied) than other species before. That means they were able to act as glue to hold the resistance together. Futhermore humans were willing to consider things (such as openly using AI) that prior races were not.

In fact when you think about it, the poor Reapers lucked out. Had humanity discovered the Mars archive just a little later (remember that Sol was literally frozen out of the Relay Network and thus not on the Reaper galactic map), Humans very likely (along with Yahg) dominated the next galactic cycle with full civilization for 50K years. The Reapers wouldn't have stood a chance.....

-Polaris

[Darth Math 88]

blurr1985 wrote...

This directly foreshadows the final choice that Shepard is faced with.  It pretty much confirms that Control and Synthesis are the indoctrinated options.  While choosing to destroy breaks the indoctrination and Shepard wakes up in rubble.

PS: I 100% believe in I.T. But this particular theory is independent of whether you believe I.T. or not.

Those are contradictory. The idea of Control and Synthesis being results of indoctrination and destroy being the option that breaks Shep's "indoctrination" is a central part of the Indoctrination Theory. So this theory IS dependent on whether or not the I.T. is true.

EDIT: Not saying it isn't a valid theory, but it does rely on the I.T. to an extent.

Modifié par Darth Math 88, 08 avril 2012 - 08:30 .

[AnuzaGray]

tomcplotts wrote...

nice try, but starbrat literally says you are the first one to make it that far.
reboot...

He also said you would die, but that doesn't explain the scene with Shepard breathing in the rubble.

Of course the logic behind you dying is nonsensical to begin with, since you're not a pure AI.

As is why destroy would wipe out all synthetic life in the first place...

[Thaduck3]

Didn't the Final Hours app (Mac's notes) say something about a connection to the Matrix? Because this would exactly like the end of the second movie!

[IanPolaris]

tomcplotts wrote...

nice try, but starbrat literally says you are the first one to make it that far.
reboot...

Yes but we know that starbrat is a serial liar.

-Polaris

[blurr1985]

Elite Midget wrote...

Rabid Veggie wrote...

I don't believe that this is correct. This entire cycle is very different from the previous ones. No civilization before this could mount the kind of resistance in this cycle since they always got gutted right from the get go. I believe when the VI says they were betrayed it was by an individual similar too cerberus and the illusive man who screwed their civ over with infighting preventing them from even delivering the crucible.

The only cycle that was ever described in detail was the Prothean one. What happened in the others is unknown only that the Reapers won just like this cycle.

I was just about to say this exact thing.

We, as human beings, with our short existences and lifespans, have an hard time with the concept of time being Cyclical and not linear.

Thanks for both of your responses!

[AnuzaGray]

IanPolaris wrote...

I think we know that the current cycle is unique in a lot of ways:

1. The Reapers weren't able to take the Citadel (initially anyway) and thus were never able to lock out the Mass Relay Network. That meant the Reapers had to do it the old fashioned way and that gave their victims a chance to resist.

2. This cycle is both cooperative (mostly) and hetrogeneous. That means that one tactic doesn't fit all (unlike the Protheans) and it means that under pressure, the victims can adapt with appalling speed.

3. The technological curve (thanks to humanity) is breaking all the former rules. Normally by this point a species that gains starflight becomes fairly technologically static, but the humans are agressive and NEW and unlike (and far more varied) than other species before. That means they were able to act as glue to hold the resistance together. Futhermore humans were willing to consider things (such as openly using AI) that prior races were not.

In fact when you think about it, the poor Reapers lucked out. Had humanity discovered the Mars archive just a little later (remember that Sol was literally frozen out of the Relay Network and thus not on the Reaper galactic map), Humans very likely (along with Yahg) dominated the next galactic cycle with full civilization for 50K years. The Reapers wouldn't have stood a chance.....

-Polaris

Yep, even if this cycled failed, good luck defeating the Yahg.  

50,000 years of development Yahg >>> Reapers.

[bpzrn]

I have given up hope, I really thought maybe the ending was all planed (to be scetchy) and they had a DLC redy to roll after 30 days or something to give us a coherent ending that fit the rest of the story. Now, I could care less what they do. The experience of ME3 is destroyed and now we have to wait 2,3,4.... 6 months for an explanation to a BAD ending of a story?

No thanks, had they anounced removal of the curent AWFUL ending after the beam part and replaced it with one that fit the trilogy and maintained character focus and not introduce a brand new super child ........... etc... etc... etc...  then I would have stuck it out.

I ordered a new game from Amazon.com with my ME3  refund form a different company due out the 17th of April, looking forward to a new story/game and company to give me loyalty and money to.

BW and./or EA seem to not want my money or loyalty

[Jeb231]

blurr1985 wrote...

The dialog with the Prothean VI on Thessia reveals the most vital information in the entire game (arguably the series).

Shepard asks "why didn't you use the crucible in your time?" The VI says: "We were sabotaged from within.  Splinter groups believed we could dominate the Reapers rather than destroy him.  We later found out they were indoctrinated."

This directly foreshadows the final choice that Shepard is faced with.  It pretty much confirms that Control and Synthesis are the indoctrinated options.  While choosing to destroy breaks the indoctrination and Shepard wakes up in rubble.

But here it is.  In the most significant dialog in the entire series, the VI says that they've found out that 'patterns repeat' in the galaxy/Universe, but they are not exact, they are 'similar'.

This leads me to believe that, in past cycles, there were other Shepard-like (in character) beings that were faced with the choice.  And all of them chose control; every cycle. Hence why the Reapers still exist in our Shepard's time.

The fact that we see Shepard in the rubble taking a breath means the starchild lied when he said "you have synthetic parts, you will also die".

So if we take it that starchild is not trustworthy, then is it really true when he says that Shepard is the "first organic" to ever make it up there? 

Even if you think starchild is telling the truth about that,and Shepard is the first organic up there, then that
still leaves the possibilty that the previous Shepard-like beings were synthetic or even something not organic or synthetic.

Some might  say, "oh but the crucible never got built, it was built over millions of years.."  But since patterns repeat, then that means the Crucible did get built before, if you go back far enough, perhaps billions of years. You have to expand your scope of time.

Shepard's decision to destroy is the most significant decision ever made in the entire history of the galaxy because he was the only one ever, that chose to break the cycle.

PS: I 100% believe in I.T. But this particular theory is independent of whether you believe I.T. or not.

Have you watched the matrix reloaded recently by any chance?

[blurr1985]

Darth Math 88 wrote...

blurr1985 wrote...

This directly foreshadows the final choice that Shepard is faced with.  It pretty much confirms that Control and Synthesis are the indoctrinated options.  While choosing to destroy breaks the indoctrination and Shepard wakes up in rubble.

PS: I 100% believe in I.T. But this particular theory is independent of whether you believe I.T. or not.

Those are contradictory. The idea of Control and Synthesis being results of indoctrination and destroy being the option that breaks Shep's "indoctrination" is a central part of the Indoctrination Theory. So this theory IS dependent on whether or not the I.T. is true.

EDIT: Not saying it isn't a valid theory, but it does rely on the I.T. to an extent.

You are absolutely correct.  I'm sorry, I didn't really think that through, I was just so excited to see the community's responses, I rushed it a little bit.  Thanks for pointing that out!


EDIT: After further thinking...

I am leaning that parts of my theory don't rely on IT much.

Even
if you think all of what happens after Shepard gets hit with the laser
is actually happening, then my theory about him not being the first one
there still holds true.

But the part about all the others choosing control does rely on IT.

Modifié par blurr1985, 08 avril 2012 - 10:12 .

[Yubz]

blurr1985 wrote...

This leads me to believe that, in past cycles, there were other Shepard-like (in character) beings that were faced with the choice.  And all of them chose control; every cycle. Hence why the Reapers still exist in our Shepard's time.

The fact that we see Shepard in the rubble taking a breath means the starchild lied when he said "you have synthetic parts, you will also die".

So if we take it that starchild is not trustworthy, then is it really true when he says that Shepard is the "first organic" to ever make it up there? 


Shepard's decision to destroy is the most significant decision ever made in the entire history of the galaxy because he was the only one ever, that chose to break the cycle.

If you think that starchild is a liar and he doesn't tell the truth about Control/Synthesis breaking the cycle then it makes no sense to assume that Destroy would be any better.
Why would he offer a working option to anyone if he doesn't want you to succeed? Makes no sense.

[SnakesSon]

tomcplotts wrote...

nice try, but starbrat literally says you are the first one to make it that far.
reboot...

He also thinks synthetics were killing organics because they weren't synthetic.

He also says you'll die in the Destroy ending when you clearly don't.

He says a lot of things.

[blurr1985]

Jeb231 wrote...

blurr1985 wrote...

The dialog with the Prothean VI on Thessia reveals the most vital information in the entire game (arguably the series).

Shepard asks "why didn't you use the crucible in your time?" The VI says: "We were sabotaged from within.  Splinter groups believed we could dominate the Reapers rather than destroy him.  We later found out they were indoctrinated."

This directly foreshadows the final choice that Shepard is faced with.  It pretty much confirms that Control and Synthesis are the indoctrinated options.  While choosing to destroy breaks the indoctrination and Shepard wakes up in rubble.

But here it is.  In the most significant dialog in the entire series, the VI says that they've found out that 'patterns repeat' in the galaxy/Universe, but they are not exact, they are 'similar'.

This leads me to believe that, in past cycles, there were other Shepard-like (in character) beings that were faced with the choice.  And all of them chose control; every cycle. Hence why the Reapers still exist in our Shepard's time.

The fact that we see Shepard in the rubble taking a breath means the starchild lied when he said "you have synthetic parts, you will also die".

So if we take it that starchild is not trustworthy, then is it really true when he says that Shepard is the "first organic" to ever make it up there? 

Even if you think starchild is telling the truth about that,and Shepard is the first organic up there, then that
still leaves the possibilty that the previous Shepard-like beings were synthetic or even something not organic or synthetic.

Some might  say, "oh but the crucible never got built, it was built over millions of years.."  But since patterns repeat, then that means the Crucible did get built before, if you go back far enough, perhaps billions of years. You have to expand your scope of time.

Shepard's decision to destroy is the most significant decision ever made in the entire history of the galaxy because he was the only one ever, that chose to break the cycle.

PS: I 100% believe in I.T. But this particular theory is independent of whether you believe I.T. or not.

Have you watched the matrix reloaded recently by any chance?

Yeah, I watched it when it came out, I'm not a huge Matrix fan either. 

And yup. You are exactly right to think this is a direct mirror of that scene in that movie.  My thoughts exactly!

[rachellouise]

I think it was just referring to the reapers appearing every 50k years

[blurr1985]

Yubz wrote...

blurr1985 wrote...

This leads me to believe that, in past cycles, there were other Shepard-like (in character) beings that were faced with the choice.  And all of them chose control; every cycle. Hence why the Reapers still exist in our Shepard's time.

The fact that we see Shepard in the rubble taking a breath means the starchild lied when he said "you have synthetic parts, you will also die".

So if we take it that starchild is not trustworthy, then is it really true when he says that Shepard is the "first organic" to ever make it up there? 


Shepard's decision to destroy is the most significant decision ever made in the entire history of the galaxy because he was the only one ever, that chose to break the cycle.

If you think that starchild is a liar and he doesn't tell the truth about Control/Synthesis breaking the cycle then it makes no sense to assume that Destroy would be any better.
Why would he offer a working option to anyone if he doesn't want you to succeed? Makes no sense.

How can you trick someone into choosing against their original choice, without presenting said original choice?

[Funkdrspot]

I'm on my phone so I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet but the starchild doesn NOT say the destroy ending will kill you. He explicitly states you will live. You are confusing the fact that he just makes mention of Shepard being partly synthetic

[The Charnel Expanse]

Conjecture abounds.

[Candidate 88766]

Its a pity the whole 'pattern' thing wasn't expanded on in-game.

My own theory is that each Cycle you have a faction that attempts to find a way to control the Reapers, but Cerberus is the first to succeed. Originally, the Reapers leave Cerberus alone - they've seen this every Cycle and it helps their cause. Once they learned Cerberus might succeed, they attacked.

TIM, fearing that all his work would be undone, betrayed the galaxy and informed the Reapers of everything, earning their trust and gaining access to the Citadel - an integral part of his plan.

I'm currently writing up my headcanon of the endings, and the whole idea of the Pattern and what Javik refers to as the 'Cosmic Imperative' play a crucial role.