189 réponses à ce sujet

[Yubz]

blurr1985 wrote...

How can you trick someone into choosing against their original choice, without presenting said original choice?

Simply by... not presenting the original choice?
"You can choose Control or Synthesis or the Reapers will destroy the Galaxy"
Not much choice for Shepard. Offering a 3nd choice that actually means a victory for your enemy makes no sense.

Modifié par Yubz, 08 avril 2012 - 08:39 .

[IanPolaris]

Funkdrspot wrote...

I'm on my phone so I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet but the starchild doesn NOT say the destroy ending will kill you. He explicitly states you will live. You are confusing the fact that he just makes mention of Shepard being partly synthetic

Not true.  He doesn't expliticitly say the destroy ending will kill you, but he doesn't say it will kill EDI either.  He DOES say that it would destroy all synthethic life including the Geth.  He then adds, "You too are partially synthetic".  That sure IMPLIES that the destroy ending will kill you and that's a lie and I don't think it's accidental in the least.

-Polaris

[blurr1985]

Yubz wrote...

blurr1985 wrote...

How can you trick someone into choosing against their original choice, without presenting said original choice?

Simply by... not presenting the original choice?
"You can choose Control or Synthesis or the Reapers will destroy the Galaxy"
Not much choice for Shepard. Offering a 3nd choice that actually means a victory for your enemy makes no sense.

If those were the only two options, it would be just too obvious that it was a trick.  Remember, Shepard is not fully indoctrinated yet. 

They needed him to choose those two, under his own will.  Think of it like Inception.

[IanPolaris]

Yubz wrote...

blurr1985 wrote...

How can you trick someone into choosing against their original choice, without presenting said original choice?

Simply by... not presenting the original choice?
"You can choose Control or Synthesis or the Reapers will destroy the Galaxy"
Not much choice for Shepard. Offering a 3nd choice that actually means a victory for your enemy makes no sense.

You are assuming that Starbrat gets to have it all his own way.  Even if you accept the scene as "real" (setting aside IT), the crucible changed the nature of the citadel and the crucible was designed to destroy the Reapers.  I don't think that starbrat had a choice to not show the destroy ending.

-Polaris

[BadlyBrowned]

The more "SPECULATION FROM EVERYBODY" the better!!!

[morel142]

So you're saying it's the Matrix formula? (or Battlestar Galactica)..

All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again...

[LystAP]

Rabid Veggie wrote...

I don't believe that this is correct. This entire cycle is very different from the previous ones. No civilization before this could mount the kind of resistance in this cycle since they always got gutted right from the get go. I believe when the VI says they were betrayed it was by an individual similar too cerberus and the illusive man who screwed their civ over with infighting preventing them from even delivering the crucible.

This cycle happened over billions and billions of years, countless cycles upon cycles. To infer that not once within that huge time span nothing like this has happened would be statistically improbable. The cycle probably had different incarnations in the past, but the premise stayed the same. 

[Deventh]

You sir won all the cookies! Congrats. Seriously though, this blows my mind it must be true!

[blurr1985]

morel142 wrote...


So you're saying it's the Matrix formula? (or Battlestar Galactica)..

All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again...

Yes sir, that is correct.

[Dark_Caduceus]

IT isn't happening, somewhat unfortunately.

[Yubz]

IanPolaris wrote...

You are assuming that Starbrat gets to have it all his own way.  Even if you accept the scene as "real" (setting aside IT), the crucible changed the nature of the citadel and the crucible was designed to destroy the Reapers.  I don't think that starbrat had a choice to not show the destroy ending.

-Polaris

Well then it's just the other way around. If it was designed to destroy the Reapers then why does it have 2 options that don't work? Still doesn't make any sense, either all of the options do exactly as the starchild says or none of them do.

[blurr1985]

Deventh wrote...

You sir won all the cookies! Congrats. Seriously though, this blows my mind it must be true!

I must say, I really thought this would be buried.

The fact that this is my first post and I actually have people that support the idea (not even necessarily agree) is amazing.  I feel really good right now. :happy:

Unless you were being sarcastic, then I feel really sad...

[TheCinC]

I don't even believe the Star Child exists. If it does exist, then it is an AI that has gone crazy over the Milennia or which already was crazy. In which case, it needs to be put out of its misery and the Reapers with it.

[Cheopz]

OP does have a point there... never thought this way about it... doesn't even sovvy in ME1 somehow stated that the pattern has repeated countless times?

in case of the control-ending: has anyone noticed that both citadel AND the relays don't explode? i never saw anyone mentioning this, but its the detail that hit me the most in this ending...

[IanPolaris]

Yubz wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

You are assuming that Starbrat gets to have it all his own way.  Even if you accept the scene as "real" (setting aside IT), the crucible changed the nature of the citadel and the crucible was designed to destroy the Reapers.  I don't think that starbrat had a choice to not show the destroy ending.

-Polaris

Well then it's just the other way around. If it was designed to destroy the Reapers then why does it have 2 options that don't work? Still doesn't make any sense, either all of the options do exactly as the starchild says or none of them do.

That isn't true at all.  The people that built the Crucible doesn't know how it works precisely and it seems to be the accumulated tech from many cycles.  It's quite possible that the three "choices" are intrinsic to the design.  There is a LOT that needs to be 'explained' which in an ending is....not good.

-Polaris

[Deventh]

blurr1985 wrote...

Deventh wrote...

You sir won all the cookies! Congrats. Seriously though, this blows my mind it must be true!

I must say, I really thought this would be buried.

The fact that this is my first post and I actually have people that support the idea (not even necessarily agree) is amazing.  I feel really good right now. :happy:

Unless you were being sarcastic, then I feel really sad...

No, not sarcastic at all, I'm dead serious. Thanks for sharing this. Also welcome to the forums!

Modifié par Deventh, 08 avril 2012 - 08:50 .

[Apollo-XL5]

Yubz wrote...

blurr1985 wrote...

This leads me to believe that, in past cycles, there were other Shepard-like (in character) beings that were faced with the choice.  And all of them chose control; every cycle. Hence why the Reapers still exist in our Shepard's time.

The fact that we see Shepard in the rubble taking a breath means the starchild lied when he said "you have synthetic parts, you will also die".

So if we take it that starchild is not trustworthy, then is it really true when he says that Shepard is the "first organic" to ever make it up there? 


Shepard's decision to destroy is the most significant decision ever made in the entire history of the galaxy because he was the only one ever, that chose to break the cycle.

If you think that starchild is a liar and he doesn't tell the truth about Control/Synthesis breaking the cycle then it makes no sense to assume that Destroy would be any better.
Why would he offer a working option to anyone if he doesn't want you to succeed? Makes no sense.

To you maybe, dont you get it.  Its a test, it gives you three options, one of which will break you free, but it made it sound so bad that the other choices are more acceptable.  If it just gave you the control and synthisis choices, you would be able to question it and see through the lie.  IT had to put the destroy choice out on the table with the others.  It was the best way to see if its way of thinking had rubbed off on you.

[Laurencio]

"The fact that you are here shows that this solution will not work anymore". Clearly no one managed to get as far as Shepard before.

[blurr1985]

LystAP wrote...

Rabid Veggie wrote...

I don't believe that this is correct. This entire cycle is very different from the previous ones. No civilization before this could mount the kind of resistance in this cycle since they always got gutted right from the get go. I believe when the VI says they were betrayed it was by an individual similar too cerberus and the illusive man who screwed their civ over with infighting preventing them from even delivering the crucible.

This cycle happened over billions and billions of years, countless cycles upon cycles. To infer that not once within that huge time span nothing like this has happened would be statistically improbable. The cycle probably had different incarnations in the past, but the premise stayed the same. 

Yes, you echo my thoughts on that exactly. 

Remember, the Reapers are said to 'exist outside of time'.  I believe it was either Vigil or Soveriegn who said that (not sure though).

[Deventh]

Laurencio wrote...

"The fact that you are here shows that this solution will not work anymore". Clearly no one managed to get as far as Shepard before.

Unless he is trying to trick you like he  did.

[Apollo-XL5]

blurr1985 wrote...

Deventh wrote...

You sir won all the cookies! Congrats. Seriously though, this blows my mind it must be true!

I must say, I really thought this would be buried.

The fact that this is my first post and I actually have people that support the idea (not even necessarily agree) is amazing.  I feel really good right now. :happy:

Unless you were being sarcastic, then I feel really sad...

It is a good addition to the IT, but i still think that the starchild is harbinger under the guise of the fake kid shepard feels guilt for.  It was also harbinger sas the kid in the dream sequences.  
Harb thinks he can play shepard like a harp from hell.

[loudent3]

blurr1985 wrote...
This leads me to believe that, in past cycles, there were other Shepard-like (in character) beings that were faced with the choice.  And all of them chose control; every cycle. Hence why the Reapers still exist in our Shepard's time.
.

If you believe the star-child he says we were the first to make it that fur thus proving his solution doesn't work.

[Iwillbeback]

Possibly, it is the only way the Crucible and how the people who worked on it over the cycles programmed it to work with the Citadel.
The Pattern was probably repeating itself like that
Maybe the Protheans changing Keepers was merely a way to give the next cycle a way to break the cycle via the destroy option but with more hope and strength against Indoctrination.

Modifié par Iwillbeback, 08 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[blurr1985]

Laurencio wrote...

"The fact that you are here shows that this solution will not work anymore". Clearly no one managed to get as far as Shepard before.

If you believe starchild is truthful.  We already know he lied once about Shepard dying if choosing destroy.

Also, you are omitting a vital line from that quote..."The fact that you are here, the first organic...."

[XTR3M3]

Shepard asks "why didn't you use the crucible in your time?" The VI
says: "We were sabotaged from within.  Splinter groups believed we could
dominate the Reapers rather than destroy him.  We later found out they
were indoctrinated."

I took that as and easter egg type foreshadowning of Cerberus doing it in our cycle as a "cycle repeats itself" type continuity. It sure sounds like they are describing what happens to Cerberus in this cycle.