189 réponses à ce sujet

[Xultanis]

Good first post, however, what you stated about the prothean VI has already been talked about.  Past cycles didn't even have the chance because the Repears always went to the citadel first to take over the Relays and shut them down. Meaning the Galaxy was seperated and they couldn't send reinforments or equipment anywhere. The only reason it didn't happen in our cycle is because the Protheans re-wrote the keepers.

*EDIT* The whole IT comes from the dialogue of everyone else. I would say look on the forums first before posting something already talked about, but this is the ME forums, if your not careful it gets buried right after you post it hehe.

IT is popular because it makes sense which is tragic since the writer for the ending didn't actually have any intention on it being that way. Bioware has stated that they are surprised no one got the ending.

If you really want to do the WHOLE profound thing, then think about it this way. We all learned that the Rachni War was a war instigated by the Repears. Which was about 2000 years prior to the start of the first game. Meaning that the end of the last cycle was cited even before the Rachni war.

MEANING, if the protheans never messed with the keepers, Humans would have been left alone for at least 1 more cycle, possibly making us the power house of the galaxy since there were no other races to found the Relays after humans.

Get it? Since we would be the first to find the Relay's after the Repears farmed out the galaxy, humans would have been the dominate race. Things could have played out differently.

*EDIT* one more thing on the whole synthetic thing about shepard being alive. Again this is why people have said the IT thoery must be true. After I beat the game for the first time, I thought right away that it has to be all a dream. Shepard was a live even though he should have been dead, EDI was alive should have been dead. Then I came to the forums and behold everyone had the same idea.

Modifié par Xultanis, 08 avril 2012 - 09:05 .

[blurr1985]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

blurr1985 wrote...

Deventh wrote...

You sir won all the cookies! Congrats. Seriously though, this blows my mind it must be true!

I must say, I really thought this would be buried.

The fact that this is my first post and I actually have people that support the idea (not even necessarily agree) is amazing.  I feel really good right now. :happy:

Unless you were being sarcastic, then I feel really sad...

It is a good addition to the IT, but i still think that the starchild is harbinger under the guise of the fake kid shepard feels guilt for.  It was also harbinger sas the kid in the dream sequences.  
Harb thinks he can play shepard like a harp from hell.

Thank you Apollo.  I also believe the child and starchild to be Harbinger.

[kalasaurus]

I like your spin on this. Maybe the Catalyst is replaced every cycle by a new organic assuming reign over the reapers? Making synthesis and destroy the only way to end the cycles forever?

idk, speculation. Still something to think about. This would make Starkid a liar or misguided/manipulated by the reaper tech that corrupted him.

Modifié par GlassElephant, 08 avril 2012 - 09:00 .

[Yubz]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

To you maybe, dont you get it.  Its a test, it gives you three options, one of which will break you free, but it made it sound so bad that the other choices are more acceptable.  If it just gave you the control and synthisis choices, you would be able to question it and see through the lie.  IT had to put the destroy choice out on the table with the others.  It was the best way to see if its way of thinking had rubbed off on you.

Well I was actually talking about a "The starchild is real" setting where Destroy is the only working option.
Ofc if you assume that it is all just a dream/indoctrination attempt then it would make some sense... because none of it is actually real.

But it if IS real and he wanted to trick you... he could just offer you the Destroy option and make that one an instant death trap for Shepard as well.

Modifié par Yubz, 08 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[blurr1985]

Xultanis wrote...

Good first post, however, what you stated about the prothean VI has already been talked about.  Past cycles didn't even have the chance because the Repears always went to the citadel first to take over the Relays and shut them down. Meaning the Galaxy was seperated and they couldn't send reinforments or equipment anywhere. The only reason it didn't happen in our cycle is because the Protheans re-wrote the keepers.

If you really want to do the WHOLE profound thing, then think about it this way. We all learned that the Rachni War was a war instigated by the Repears. Which was about 2000 years prior to the start of the first game. Meaning that the end of the last cycle was cited even before the Rachni war.

MEANING, if the protheans never messed with the keepers, Humans would have been left alone for at least 1 more cycle, possibly making us the power house of the galaxy since there were no other races to found the Relays after humans.

Get it? Since we would be the first to find the Relay's after the Repears farmed out the galaxy, humans would have been the dominate race. Things could have played out differently.

Excellent counter arguments.

"The only reason it didn't happen in our cycle is because the Protheans re-wrote the keepers."

If you go back far enough.  Couldn't that have happened before.  Not by the Protheans, but by a race whose role in the Cycle was analgous to the Protheans in this one?

However, I do agree with you that humans would have been the dominant race if they left us alone this Cycle.

[Apollo-XL5]

morel142 wrote...


So you're saying it's the Matrix formula? (or Battlestar Galactica)..

All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again...

Your also forgetting Babylon 5, that also hinted that every 1000 years the shadows would appear and destroy the younger races that were considered weak, while strengthing the ones that resisted successfully.  As I said in a previous thread, shepard and sheridan have alot of similarites.
The shadows attempted to bring sheridan to their way of thinking by manipulating him with his wife and telling him some of the truth behind the war, not just the vorlons side of it.  What was it the human allies of the shadows said.
Justin:  you are what they call a nexus, you turn one way and the galaxy will follow you that way.Morden: There is always one that manages to bring the other races together, you have done that, its a credable achievement, but in terms of our goals it is unsuitable.Sheridan: then why dont you just kill me?JUstin: because someone would just replace you(his friends), thats always the problem with creating marytars.  We brought you here so we could talk to you, convince you to join us, let go of those other races, you cant hold them together.

[Xultanis]

It might have. With how often they did it. Only problem is that the Repears are pretty keen on fixing mistakes. If someone re-wrote the keepers in a previous Cycle, they would have fixed that so the Protheans couldn't have done it in there cycle.

Its pretty concrete with the way the cycles played out.

I don't mind debating, I like doing it a lot actually. Just want to give you fair warning though lol. If your hoping any of what you thinking is actually true. Then you will be very sad. Since in all honesty it seems that Bioware focused a lot more resources on Multiplayer and SWTOR then on Mass Effect 3.

They pretty much rushed through the game since they might have burned all their time and resources doing what I stated above.

Again would love to pick apart the game with you. I have no problems with it, its nice gets the mind working. Just know that if you are actually believing it, then stop take a breath, and say "Thats a bad EA and Bioware" then just come back and have a nice debate again.

[Apollo-XL5]

Yubz wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

To you maybe, dont you get it.  Its a test, it gives you three options, one of which will break you free, but it made it sound so bad that the other choices are more acceptable.  If it just gave you the control and synthisis choices, you would be able to question it and see through the lie.  IT had to put the destroy choice out on the table with the others.  It was the best way to see if its way of thinking had rubbed off on you.

Well I was actually talking about a "The starchild is real" setting where Destroy is the only working option.
Ofc if you assume that it is all just a dream/indoctrination attempt then it would make some sense... because none of it is actually real.

But it if IS real and he wanted to trick you... he could just offer you the Destroy option and make that one an instant death trap for Shepard as well.

But as i just said in my most recent post in comparing shepard with sheridan of babylon 5
the reapers dont want shepard dead, because they see great potential in him as a resource for their needs (similar to saren)  thats why in ME2 harbinger keeps telling the collectors to capture shepard or at least bring in his corpse (obviously for harb to resurrect him.)

[vasametropolis]

Most of this actually makes so much sense... the extended cut could do very well to frame this better if this was their intention. I think the conversation with the Catalyst kind of needs to be redone, but this is a pretty good explanation, and it doesn't require any leaps of faith. Well, there's one kind of. The line where he says you're the first organic ever to get this far... seems a bit strange. Unless he lies about everything for no reason, that implies anything else that has ever reached that far was a synthetic being... not sure what kind of ramifications that would have for the whole organic vs. synthetic thing.

There are still too many questions, but it is a fairly solid interpretation. I'm pretty sure that's not what they were going for (another golden missed opportunity?), but it's one of my favourite interpretations. Moreso than IT.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 08 avril 2012 - 09:12 .

[Cheopz]

blurr1985 wrote...

"The only reason it didn't happen in our cycle is because the Protheans re-wrote the keepers."

If you go back far enough.  Couldn't that have happened before.  Not by the Protheans, but by a race whose role in the Cycle was analgous to the Protheans in this one?

happened it before? we do not know... what we know is: in ME1 there were two scientists, a salarian and a volus... don't remember the names... they succeeded in scanning the keepers... in ME2 you get an email from one of them, but i don't know anymore what exactly was written...

so, if it happened in the last cycle and even the present cycle is pretty much close to do eventually the same, it could have happened countless times in countless cycles...

[blurr1985]

Xultanis wrote...

It might have. With how often they did it. Only problem is that the Repears are pretty keen on fixing mistakes. If someone re-wrote the keepers in a previous Cycle, they would have fixed that so the Protheans couldn't have done it in there cycle.

Its pretty concrete with the way the cycles played out.

I don't mind debating, I like doing it a lot actually. Just want to give you fair warning though lol. If your hoping any of what you thinking is actually true. Then you will be very sad. Since in all honesty it seems that Bioware focused a lot more resources on Multiplayer and SWTOR then on Mass Effect 3.

They pretty much rushed through the game since they might have burned all their time and resources doing what I stated above.

Again would love to pick apart the game with you. I have no problems with it, its nice gets the mind working. Just know that if you are actually believing it, then stop take a breath, and say "Thats a bad EA and Bioware" then just come back and have a nice debate again.

In my original post, I mention the 'splinter group' that the Prothean VI says thought they could control the Reapers and then later they found out they were indoctrinated. 

Do you think that this 'spinter group' may have been the Collectors?

[vasametropolis]

Well they would have turned into the Collectors, but yes I think so.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 08 avril 2012 - 09:13 .

[Wabajakka]

This is so true and a lot of people should agree with you...

Unfortunately, unless BW is lying to us. The whole indoc thing was never true and won't be true.

I hope they're lying.

[blurr1985]

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Most of this actually makes so much sense... the extended cut could do very well to frame this better if this was their intention. I think the conversation with the Catalyst kind of needs to be redone, but this is a pretty good explanation, and it doesn't require any leaps of faith. Well, there's one kind of. The line where he says you're the first organic ever to get this far... seems a bit strange. Unless he lies about everything for no reason, that implies anything else that has ever reached that far was a synthetic being... not sure what kind of ramifications that would have for the whole organic vs. synthetic thing.

There are still too many questions, but it is a fairly solid interpretation. I'm pretty sure that's not what they were going for (another golden missed opportunity?), but it's one of my favourite interpretations. Moreso than IT.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Also, maybe there is a third type of being that is neither organic or synthetic? Its a pretty vast galaxy...

[Apollo-XL5]

blurr1985 wrote...

Xultanis wrote...

It might have. With how often they did it. Only problem is that the Repears are pretty keen on fixing mistakes. If someone re-wrote the keepers in a previous Cycle, they would have fixed that so the Protheans couldn't have done it in there cycle.

Its pretty concrete with the way the cycles played out.

I don't mind debating, I like doing it a lot actually. Just want to give you fair warning though lol. If your hoping any of what you thinking is actually true. Then you will be very sad. Since in all honesty it seems that Bioware focused a lot more resources on Multiplayer and SWTOR then on Mass Effect 3.

They pretty much rushed through the game since they might have burned all their time and resources doing what I stated above.

Again would love to pick apart the game with you. I have no problems with it, its nice gets the mind working. Just know that if you are actually believing it, then stop take a breath, and say "Thats a bad EA and Bioware" then just come back and have a nice debate again.

In my original post, I mention the 'splinter group' that the Prothean VI says thought they could control the Reapers and then later they found out they were indoctrinated. 

Do you think that this 'spinter group' may have been the Collectors?

Doubtful, since collectors are just prothean husks, more likely they were a group of protheans that had been slowly indoctrinated like cerberus had been in the current cycle.

[Cheopz]

you don't need the IT for this to could be true...

thats just another point that its very solid so far...

[blurr1985]

Orange Tee wrote...

This is so true and a lot of people should agree with you...

Unfortunately, unless BW is lying to us. The whole indoc thing was never true and won't be true.

I hope they're lying.

That means a lot to me, thank you!

I can't put it into words how it feels.  To get this idea that I've been deeply thinking about since the wee hours of Friday morning, onto the forums, and have the kind of feedback I'm having.

I'm just mad I didn't join this community earlier!

[vasametropolis]

blurr1985 wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Most of this actually makes so much sense... the extended cut could do very well to frame this better if this was their intention. I think the conversation with the Catalyst kind of needs to be redone, but this is a pretty good explanation, and it doesn't require any leaps of faith. Well, there's one kind of. The line where he says you're the first organic ever to get this far... seems a bit strange. Unless he lies about everything for no reason, that implies anything else that has ever reached that far was a synthetic being... not sure what kind of ramifications that would have for the whole organic vs. synthetic thing.

There are still too many questions, but it is a fairly solid interpretation. I'm pretty sure that's not what they were going for (another golden missed opportunity?), but it's one of my favourite interpretations. Moreso than IT.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Also, maybe there is a third type of being that is neither organic or synthetic? Its a pretty vast galaxy...

Yeah perhaps... it's just kind of strange trying to imagine what that race could possibly be.

[Controller_B]

I was led to the same conclusions. But IMO, the indoctrination theory isn't true, and the fact some of the choices feel really wrong is the result of bad writing. I feel like this is just the sort of speculation that Bioware wanted (where people picked and justified their choices on their own terms) but if you come away from talking to the catalyst feeling like someone is trying to trick you... then all the endings have the possibility of becoming invalid. Which is why IT exists.

[Xultanis]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

morel142 wrote...


So you're saying it's the Matrix formula? (or Battlestar Galactica)..

All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again...

Your also forgetting Babylon 5, that also hinted that every 1000 years the shadows would appear and destroy the younger races that were considered weak, while strengthing the ones that resisted successfully.  As I said in a previous thread, shepard and sheridan have alot of similarites.
The shadows attempted to bring sheridan to their way of thinking by manipulating him with his wife and telling him some of the truth behind the war, not just the vorlons side of it.  What was it the human allies of the shadows said.
Justin:  you are what they call a nexus, you turn one way and the galaxy will follow you that way.Morden: There is always one that manages to bring the other races together, you have done that, its a credable achievement, but in terms of our goals it is unsuitable.Sheridan: then why dont you just kill me?JUstin: because someone would just replace you(his friends), thats always the problem with creating marytars.  We brought you here so we could talk to you, convince you to join us, let go of those other races, you cant hold them together.

For Shepard its completely different then what they did with Sheridan. Granted both persons of dominate existance. The only difference is the terms of which the Galaxy was in turmoil. In Babylon 5 what the shadow was doing isn't considered wrong in any respect of the word, nor was it right though. What they did was force evolution through war and chaos. Those that did not evolve would die. They wouldn't intentionally try to WIPE out a race. They would push it into Choas forcing it to grow. The races that survived advanced by hundreds maybe thousands of years what would have normally taken them tens of thousands.

Also shepard uniting the races had little to do with him being "shepard". What I mean is that if the Repears weren't involved, the genophage would have never been cured in his life time. The turians and salarians would have not allied with Krogan. ETC ETC.

The formula that Mass Effect used was the "common enemy" formula. When a threat bigger then all the races combined is in the picture, that is the only time when waring nations will choose peace and form an alliance to stop the new powerful enemy.

[SupR G]

SPECULATION IS FUN.

[Vigil_N7]

I'd have to disagree. Yes, the people that have been indoctrinated were led to believe they could control the reapers, but as with TIM, the Catalyst actually said they and TIM would never be able to control the reapers, because "we already controlled THEM."

Shepard then asks, "Will I be able to control them?" to which the catalyst replies yes, because Shepard is not indoctrinated.

Watch the start of 3:25
 

Modifié par Vigil_N7, 08 avril 2012 - 09:26 .

[Apollo-XL5]

With this added to the IT, makes you think how many shepard like beings harbinger met over all the cycles. It would then make sense as to why habringer got sovereign to indoctrinate saren early on. MAybe he was seen to be the logical choice of the person who could unite the galaxy against the reapers. So they got to him first, but in doing so, they failed to notice a certain human who would then turn out to be the real threat to them , who then managed to stall the harvesting of this current cycle for a number of years.

[Deventh]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

I'd have to disagree. Yes, the people that have been indoctrinated were led to believe they could control the reapers, but as with TIM, the Catalyst actually said they and TIM would never be able to control the reapers, because "we already controlled THEM."

Shepard then asks, "Will I be able to control them?" to which the catalyst replies yes, because Shepard is not indoctrinated.

Maybe he is simply trying to trick you to believe that you're not.

[Vigil_N7]

Deventh wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

I'd have to disagree. Yes, the people that have been indoctrinated were led to believe they could control the reapers, but as with TIM, the Catalyst actually said they and TIM would never be able to control the reapers, because "we already controlled THEM."

Shepard then asks, "Will I be able to control them?" to which the catalyst replies yes, because Shepard is not indoctrinated.

Maybe he is simply trying to trick you to believe that you're not.

Maybe, maybe not. We have no reason to trust or distrust him, so we can only go by what is currently said