170 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaosgirl]

thestreaker wrote...

Jokes aside, you understand my complaint? A lot of other RPGs seem to get it right and aren't on as big of a budget or as long of a development time as DA.

IMO, a lot of other RPGs go a bit too far the other way;  making the female's virtual caricatures of the feminine stereotype.

[adam_nox]

They do seem bigger than in about 80% of rpgs I've played, (god bless lulu's tatas in ff10)



But I think that's more laziness in modeling variations than anything else.

[slash197]

I don't know what the deal with breast size is. Just looking around in a busy part of town I can see women with larger.



It's pretty messed up that leather armor has the least feminine shape, massive armors not included, though.

[bjdbwea]

David Gaider wrote...

I understand that you seem to think the animators had nothing better to work on or improve, or that those "other RPG's" didn't have their own trade-offs, yes.

To be honest, I can't see how they could've worked on these DA animations for five years. That would've had to be more than enough time to implement proper character movements as well as combat animations. And I agree with what's been said, in ME it all looks so much better. That may be related to the engine, but if BioWare wants to use their DA engine further, it needs to be much improved (not only in this regard).

[David Gaider]

bjdbwea wrote...
To be honest, I can't see how they could've worked on these DA animations for five years. That would've had to be more than enough time to implement proper character movements as well as combat animations. And I agree with what's been said, in ME it all looks so much better. That may be related to the engine, but if BioWare wants to use their DA engine further, it needs to be much improved (not only in this regard).

Fair enough. I'm not going to comment on what our animators did or didn't work on, or their limitations (as I know neither all that well), but if you think the animations need to be improved so be it.

[SweetiePea]

The chest size makes me roll my eyes. I've been gaming for years and years and pretty much ignore the disproportionate females in games. I think the world of gaming has improved for women but I still think there is still some inherent sexism there.



I don't understand why the female characters in this game have such huge chests. I was really pleased with how my PCs in KotOR and ME looked because, while feminine, their shape wasn't a distraction. Not so with DA. It's not as noticeable in the heavy armors but when my rogue PC put on leather armor, I could do little but sit there and wince.

[DaeFaron]

I never noticed that any of the female characters had 'huge' chests. Besides maybe Morrigan and that would be because of the most skin showing.

[Alexus_VG]

SweetiePea wrote...

The chest size makes me roll my eyes. I've been gaming for years and years and pretty much ignore the disproportionate females in games. I think the world of gaming has improved for women but I still think there is still some inherent sexism there.

I don't understand why the female characters in this game have such huge chests. I was really pleased with how my PCs in KotOR and ME looked because, while feminine, their shape wasn't a distraction. Not so with DA. It's not as noticeable in the heavy armors but when my rogue PC put on leather armor, I could do little but sit there and wince.

WOW I just can't let this one go. I happen to be a woman and I don't find it in the least bit sexist. Actually as someone who has a naturally large breast size I thought it was rather refeshing to have a PC that fit my body proportions better than in KotOR and ME. That said if they had had the time to add different phenotypes for variety that would have been great but as they did not I don't see how it is any worst to have all the breast big than to have them all small.

As for the animations I guess the combat walk was a bit questionable but I honestly was not paying it all that much attention. Other than that the animetions are not all that bad at all in my oppinion. Actually I was quite happy with the combat annimations.

[spernus]

David Gaider wrote...

Fair enough. I'm not going to comment on what our animators did or didn't work on, or their limitations (as I know neither all that well), but if you think the animations need to be improved so be it.

Yes,the animation for female models need to be vastly improved. It's especially silly when you look at Wynne or Morrigan run around.   

Be happy that it's not as silly or offensive as FFX-2,which greatly exaggerated female movements(especially when Yuna run around which was grotesque).

[Driveninhifi]

Stuff like this is a very, very, very iterative process. The final animations may have not taken five years, but you didn't see all the work it took to get there. And it's not like they can just make some animations and be done with it - everything is interconnected. So if the engine's animation code isn't done, then the animators can't see what their work looks like in the game, etc. Maybe a better animation system was implemented, but couldn't be included because it breaks other things - you'd be surprised at how many "fixes" are held back in a software product because it's not worth the risk of breaking something else to include them.

Modifié par Driveninhifi, 05 décembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[abyssaldeth1]

why is this a problem? so you rather they have small breast's? i for one would rather have huge ones...hell make em even bigger

[Atmosfear3]

The Lady of the Forest is the hottest female in the entire game. Period.

[Loetek]

Alexus_VG wrote...

SweetiePea wrote...

The chest size makes me roll my eyes. I've been gaming for years and years and pretty much ignore the disproportionate females in games. I think the world of gaming has improved for women but I still think there is still some inherent sexism there.

I don't understand why the female characters in this game have such huge chests. I was really pleased with how my PCs in KotOR and ME looked because, while feminine, their shape wasn't a distraction. Not so with DA. It's not as noticeable in the heavy armors but when my rogue PC put on leather armor, I could do little but sit there and wince.

WOW I just can't let this one go. I happen to be a woman and I don't find it in the least bit sexist. Actually as someone who has a naturally large breast size I thought it was rather refeshing to have a PC that fit my body proportions better than in KotOR and ME. That said if they had had the time to add different phenotypes for variety that would have been great but as they did not I don't see how it is any worst to have all the breast big than to have them all small.

As for the animations I guess the combat walk was a bit questionable but I honestly was not paying it all that much attention. Other than that the animetions are not all that bad at all in my oppinion. Actually I was quite happy with the combat annimations.

So you busy tomorrow night? Or.....? <_<

[ZtriDer1379]

Serenity84 wrote...

My biggest problem is the hands. They are waaaaaay oversized.

I can understand cutting down on the body models. But you'd think there'd be enough time to get those right then.

That is the 1st thing I notes... Ok.. 2nd thing.. 1st thing where the weapons... Ever notis how HUGE the grips of the swords are? You cant even reach around the hilt with 1 hand O.o Maybe that is why they have to big hands ? 

[Alarna]

I know games where the female models are much more ... for male eyes

Drakensang for example. (The dark eye)

I am wondering about the height and form of the breasts of female models. They are hanging and the form is like an older woman (I know, I am) not of a young one (I know, I have a 24years old daughter).

That is disappointing, seems there is no developer who creates "normal" female bodies.



I am glad to read, that there is working on a female rig, really. Playing a female elven mage it's everytime "Arrgh!" to see her run.

[Xaltar81]

Loetek wrote...

Alexus_VG wrote...

SweetiePea wrote...

The chest size makes me roll my eyes. I've been gaming for years and years and pretty much ignore the disproportionate females in games. I think the world of gaming has improved for women but I still think there is still some inherent sexism there.

I don't understand why the female characters in this game have such huge chests. I was really pleased with how my PCs in KotOR and ME looked because, while feminine, their shape wasn't a distraction. Not so with DA. It's not as noticeable in the heavy armors but when my rogue PC put on leather armor, I could do little but sit there and wince.

WOW I just can't let this one go. I happen to be a woman and I don't find it in the least bit sexist. Actually as someone who has a naturally large breast size I thought it was rather refeshing to have a PC that fit my body proportions better than in KotOR and ME. That said if they had had the time to add different phenotypes for variety that would have been great but as they did not I don't see how it is any worst to have all the breast big than to have them all small.

As for the animations I guess the combat walk was a bit questionable but I honestly was not paying it all that much attention. Other than that the animetions are not all that bad at all in my oppinion. Actually I was quite happy with the combat annimations.

So you busy tomorrow night? Or.....? <_<

Hey, thats my wife you're digitally oogling.

Between this and Alistair I really have to fight to get some me time, DAMN YOU DRAGON AGE!!!

I don't care what size breasts are in a game so long as the rest of the body is proportioned properly to support it. But if I must choose between big or small I'll have a cup of D please

[Eternal Dust]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

The Lady of the Forest is the hottest female in the entire game. Period.

I concur. She and the Desire Demon have the most proportional female bodies. Why can't we get that too?

[Fishy]

They were probably drunk also when they draw mage helmet..i would never wear that even during Halloween.
and mage robe .. Why mage always have to wear frigging robes?At least make it look decent...For instance gandalf robe looked bad ass.Those robe in dragon age look stupid.

Also when you undress Morrigan when she wear her robe.Her body proportion change a lot.

Even that DLC robe (avernus) it's simply a mage robe with different color.How boring.

Modifié par Suprez30, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:14 .

[ModForFun]

David Gaider wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
If this even bothers the developers, then why not release the tools to the community to make the necessary changes? Or at least reveal the file formats? (Far as I know, the toolset doesn't allow editing of models and animations.) Just look at Oblivion and Fallout 3 to see how well the community can take care of these things if the knowledge and tools are available.

Short of you making a whole new animation rig for females, I doubt you'll be able to by-pass the issues that our own animators had. As it is, I was referring to a walk that was since changed. But maybe this is the kind of work modders would be interested in addressing, I don't know. Something to request on the toolset forum, perhaps.

Pretty much thats one of the things that an Oblivion modders addressed as well improving the Skeletons,  So its something that can be done.

It all depends on how much of the original work if any can be reused, a new skeleton for the female means a new mesh is neaded and that in turn needs new textures, which all needs to have the armor refitted and then this shiny new look needs new animations to not completely look wtfisthatomgloool when actualy playing the game.

This isnt something that community can do currently do with the tools presently available

[Phaedra Sanguine]

Actually, the breasts didn't seem THAT big... although, if it bothers you, play Mass Effect. The women in ME seem to have a shortage on huge breast genes, which is absolutely fine if you ask me.

[SweetiePea]

Okay, I recognize that some women do naturally have large breasts. I wouldn't mind characters in game having large breasts if it were simply a matter of, "Oh, well, some women are like this in real life." I don't think that I'm off base here when I say that the large-chested women in games are usually there to appeal to a certain subset of male gamers. Note that I say a certain subset. I was pleased to see that there are male players who concur that the breast-size in this game is a bit ridiculous.

What this really boils down to for me is female characters being there simply so that they're sex objects for some male gamers. It perpetuates stereotypes about women and I have a problem with that. Always have, always will. Just as I'd have a problem with a company using scantily clad buff male characters as sex objects--unless that's their role. I'd have been okay with obviously cheesecake women and men being in the brothel, for example. That would have been in keeping with the storyline. But what's the point of my PC running around in armor that was inspired by the wonderbra?

What I like about ME and KotOR is that the female characters are obviously feminine but they didn't feel like sex objects to me. Sure, I know how male characters felt about Bastila but at least she looked normal when you slapped some Jedi robes on her. Why is it that whatever you put on Morrigan ends up looking sleazy? I do have to give the developers some kudos, though, as I found it very humorous when you approach Morrigan in Eamon's estate and she says something like she'll burn down the place if one more servant asks if she'd like a change of clothes.

Modifié par SweetiePea, 05 décembre 2009 - 02:46 .

[F-C]

SweetiePea wrote...
What this really boils down to for me is female characters being there simply so that they're sex objects for some male gamers. It perpetuates stereotypes about women and I have a problem with that. Always have, always will. Just as I'd have a problem with a company using scantily clad buff male characters as sex objects.

the steroeotype does go both ways though.

all the men in the games have near perfect athletic builds. broad shoulders,  cut up pecs, abs, arms, legs...

i guess you could say they dont emphasize it in the same way they do a womens chest, but id say thats a cultural thing more than anything else. in our culture womens chest are emphasized in the same way a mans muscle tone and overall physique is emphasized.

/shrug

to me its gotten so old and played out that i just tend to over look it most the time. i mean i have a good physique in real life and i still dont look as perfect as the males they portray in the game.

[Zenthar Aseth]

SweetiePea wrote...
What this really boils down to for me is female characters being there simply so that they're sex objects for some male gamers..

But women ARE sex objects.

[Bagsabbis]

The original point doesn't bother me too much. I would have liked to be able to resize height and body shape for rp reasons on all created characters though.



There is one thing that does bug me regarding female models though, and that is the size of human female heads. It may just be me being crap in the character creation phase, but I end up feeling that the heads end up looking a bit too small in proportion to the human female body. It may also just be another side effect of the framing that David Gaider mentioned though.

[Starmartyr]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...


 The same can be said about men who are all very fit and muscular.

Yeah, because Lloyd in Redcliff is the picture of health and beauty