58 réponses à ce sujet

[fluffmoresheep]

To the thread starter: don't dismiss the Viper outright, it's a great rifle. The Valiant is strictly better of course, but many people simply do not have it.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Ill try the viper when i have a chance.

[kheldorin]

I don't agree with being cloaked all the time. It puts so much pressure on the rest of the team especially when they're playing a lower health class. If I'm in cover anyway, why not draw the fire away especially from enemies like the ravagers.

[RinShepard]

lightsnow13 wrote...
The armor boost only applies when fighting against synthetics - meaning it'll be useless unless you fight geth, or atlas.

Wrong. Because of how ambiguous the skill description is, a lot of people assume this without even trying it. Armor Boost works on any enemy that has shields or barriers, and it works on any synthetic regardless of their having  shields or barriers.

So it works on Geth, Centurions, Nemesis, Atlases, Phantoms, Marauders, and Banshees. And if you play Gold, those are everywhere and you'll usually have lots of opportunities to get Armor Boost up (I still prefer damage over Armor Boost for Infiltrators, though.)

Try it out for yourself and Energy Drain a Centurion on Wave 1. You'll glow blue with the Armor Boost.

Modifié par RinShepard, 09 avril 2012 - 07:30 .

[thunderheadx84]

Question, when you are cloaked, do you need to hit the cloack button again to get out of cloak to receive the extra weapon damage? Or do you get the weapon damage boost by simply firing from cloak?

[Dr Derp]

I can't really agree with how you rated the weapons. It's been proven that a Black Widow has a higher dph than the javelin. I don't see why the javelin got a higher rating then the Black Widow because the Black Widow kills faster than the javelin against Atlas, Primes and Banshees and it's a lot better and more efficient at killing groups of weak enemies.

I guess a widow x would definitely be better than a Black Widow I but I would completely disagree if they were the same level; the Black Widow would definitely be superior. I definitely think that Black Widow is a 5\\5 and a widow is around 4.8\\5 only because the Black Widow is very proficient at doing everything so as a infiltrator, you are able to perform many roles instead of specializing in taking down big enemies.

I personally like to choose fitness over Proxy Mine because you really don't need Proxy Mine (ED does all) and you get a health increase which DOES actually significantly up your chances of surviving. However, I wouldn't argue that another form of damaging the big enemies is bad.

I would take bonus power over sniper damage for rank 6 TC just because you don't need to rush your shots then which means more head shots and it's not limiting the usage of ED only as part of the TC-> ED -> Fire chain but as an actual power to freely use without costing the cool down that results in a weak shot. It's also great to have a power to regenerate your shields while your running away from the enemies and using TC.

Other than the points that I have mentioned, great guide though.

[Grimy Bunyip]

while id normally agree with you mr. derp, I just saw crimson in game, and I understand his reasoning now.

he uses animation cancelling to help ease the rather slow dps of the 1 shot rifles.
and he exploits the extremely long penetration to shoot multiple targets at once.
a lot of bosses IE atlas/prime spawn in duos on later waves.
he used the insanely long piercing to hit both with every bullet.

I havent met many gamers that can keep up with crimson's dps with the widow.
its not as good against smaller mobs and CC for obvious reasons, but he can do 2-4x more dps than most other infiltrator builds vs bosses.

[Dr Derp]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

while id normally agree with you mr. derp, I just saw crimson in game, and I understand his reasoning now.

he uses animation cancelling to help ease the rather slow dps of the 1 shot rifles.
and he exploits the extremely long penetration to shoot multiple targets at once.
a lot of bosses IE atlas/prime spawn in duos on later waves.
he used the insanely long piercing to hit both with every bullet.

I havent met many gamers that can keep up with crimson's dps with the widow.
its not as good against smaller mobs and CC for obvious reasons, but he can do 2-4x more dps than most other infiltrator builds vs bosses.

It's DR. Derp lol

It's been proven that Black Widow's can do more dph then the widow if they are at the same level. As I mentioned before, the widow would be a lot better when it's fully leveled or leveled enough but if they were at the same level, the Black Widow would be better. I do know that hardly anyone even has the Black Widow at all much less get it past rank 1. The Black Widow has the same AP capabilities as the Widow so you can do the same thing by piercing two enemies with the Black Widow and you have 3 shots.

I'm not trying to bash your opinion or people who prefer the Widow over the Black Widow, but I'm just trying to raise awarness that the Black Widow is truly the "best" sniper rifle; the only part that the widow beats it in would be dps or TTK a single target. However, this (Black Widow being the "best") is not apparent because it is very troublesome to level up (which the OP DID mention, however I would not include that into the weapon's overall rating).

I would not use the javelin over the widow though. THIS I fully agree that there is NOTHING it can do better than the Black Widow other than shooting through walls maybe.

Here is the proof: PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD if you have a chance!! Otherwise you will be misleaded. It is actually quite entertaining.
http://social.biowar...ndex/10907115/3

PLEASE NOTE: The OP is very incorrect: he forgot to add very crucial parts into his calculations. Moreover, he consideres  "reload canceling" as a glitch, which it evidently is not. We, the players who actually calculate and consider everything prove him wrong despite his desperate attempts at protecting his broken calculations and he is left with the proof that the Black Widow is better at everything except for shooting through walls. 

Sorry for the long thread, but I wanted to get this information to everyone

EDIT: I just wanted to point out that under the "PLEASE NOTE" part I ment the OP in the thread I linked, not the OP of this thread.

Modifié par Dr Derp, 09 avril 2012 - 08:13 .

[astheoceansblue]

Been using this build on my widow SI since launch.

I play Gold exclusive, I rarelyy drop, and I'm most always top (when I play this class).

Not bragging, just showing that the lack of fitness doesn't hinder your ability to stand up and deal damage. Energy drain is your shield buff.

Still, I prefer to go: 5/6/6/6/3 with my GPS for the shield buff for cqc and cloak/melee. I just wish it were easier to switch between builds on the fly.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 09 avril 2012 - 08:48 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

hey, having used bw for over 100 games and maining the carnifex nowadays, thats what I thought at first too before I did a quick round with crimson.

I didnt believe he could keep up remotely well with any multishot sniper or pistol build, but he did.

this is simple, if black widow really is much much better overall than a widow, you should have no trouble tying his score right? if not you then some other competent black widow user.

just sort this out in game, at worst youll get some credits. crimson was more than competent enough to practically duo gold with me on a lvl 10 infiltrator.

[zeph08]

i had a good time using the salarian with the crusader. since i didn't need the sniper boost on TC i used the ED perk which lets me use ED without uncloaking.

as for SO, i increase weapon weight capacity and increase weapon damage (i have a 16% power recharge boost)

[Elcor Pride]

Question: Why not Power Usage as the 6th tier Tac. Cloak? If you use the power and shoot immediately afterwards do you still get the Damage Increase on your Shot?

Modifié par Elcor Pride, 09 avril 2012 - 08:36 .

[Dr Derp]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

hey, having used bw for over 100 games and maining the carnifex nowadays, thats what I thought at first too before I did a quick round with crimson.

I didnt believe he could keep up remotely well with any multishot sniper or pistol build, but he did.

this is simple, if black widow really is much much better overall than a widow, you should have no trouble tying his score right? if not you then some other competent black widow user.

just sort this out in game, at worst youll get some credits. crimson was more than competent enough to practically duo gold with me on a lvl 10 infiltrator.

Just read my previous post...
 But I would be happy to play with him

[RamsenC]

Carnifex X is better than the Valiant and more and more people have all golds maxed so it's worth mentioning. I prefer it on Quarian Inf for more sabotage.

[fallout051]

Just thought I would throw in my 2c on valiant vs widow, not a fan of the javelin and can't comment on the BW as it still refuses to drop for me.

I love both and a few people seem to be either one side or the other. Ideally take whichever one is better for your team build that game. If you have heavy hitters (AA other SI with high widow etc) that will deal with the big boss effectively then take the valiant and take care of the small mobs. If you have lots of lower hitters who will take out the small mobs but will need help with the big stuff take the widow to be able to take them down quicker.

Edit: also haven't used PM since demo going to try out this build later.

Modifié par fallout051, 09 avril 2012 - 08:40 .

[astheoceansblue]

fallout051 wrote...

Just thought I would throw in my 2c on valiant vs widow, not a fan of the javelin and can't comment on the BW as it still refuses to drop for me.

I love both and a few people seem to be either one side or the other. Ideally take whichever one is better for your team build that game. If you have heavy hitters (AA other SI with high widow etc) that will deal with the big boss effectively then take the valiant and take care of the small mobs. If you have lots of lower hitters who will take out the small mobs but will need help with the big stuff take the widow to be able to take them down quicker.

Edit: also haven't used PM since demo going to try out this build later.

PM is beastly. I use it on my Turian Soldier too, and it drops specials with ease. Think of it as an infinite stock of super-powered grenades, or even a secondary grenade launcher if your aim and timing is good enough.

[peddroelm]

RamsenC wrote...

Carnifex X is better than the Valiant and more and more people have all golds maxed so it's worth mentioning. I prefer it on Quarian Inf for more sabotage.

Why ?

Carniflex X base damage
345.1

Valiant I base damage on infiltrator
396.5 * 1.4 = 555.1

HS damage from cloak (25% barrel lvl5 , 15% ed passive, 20% HS perk)

Carniflex X HS
345.1 * (1 + 0.9 + 0.25 + 0.15 + 0.2) * 2.5 = 2156.875 (will not drop shield of gold geth hunter, pyro in one head shot)

Valiant I HS
396.5 * 1.4 * (1 + 0.9 + 0.25 + 0.15 + 0.2) * 2.5 = 3469.375 (gold geth pyro has ~2600 shield)

========
Also against the big armored targets ...

Carniflex X 
(345.1 * (1 + 0.9 + 0.25 + 0.15)) - 50 = 743.73

Valiant I  
(396.5 * 1.4 * (1 + 0.9 + 0.25 + 0.15)) - 50 = 1226.73 

Valiant also has superior fire rate ....

Modifié par peddroelmz, 09 avril 2012 - 09:23 .

[Sabbatine]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

I love AP ammo because of the crazy penetration though. I can shoot through multiple covers with it. Besides the Widow is mainly for taking out heavy enemies. I gave the Valiant 4/5 overall bc its hard to acquire, it requires you to line up headshot for maximum damage and it lacks AP. The BW has AP but its capability is only half of the widow and its harder to line up headshot compare to the valiant bc of the recoil.

That's fair enough, I love ap ammo too but it only gives a flat damage bonus whereas warp gives a percentage bonus.

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

The widow is pretty good bc u can 1 hit weak nonshield enemies by hitting its torso only, while valiant cant do that. But in a match when u are a crowd controller like vs Geth, the Valiant is better.

A valiant may not be able to kill an enemy in one hit to the torso but it can in three hits using similar percentage of its total ammo and a little more time.

The valiant is better in nearly every situation regardless of what role you are attempting to perform. A valiant will kill an atlas faster than a widow. A valiant will kill three assault troopers in the time a widow can only kill one. The only situation a widow really comes out on top is when you are firing through thicker cover a valiant with a penetration mod can't.

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

About the reload time, dont forget that u can do a reload cancel with power or medi gel

I don't factor in mechanical exploits when comparing weapons, but even if I did in this case, it would be irrelevant because unless you are firing without tactical cloak there is no increase in dps. With a valiant you can tactical cloak, fire three shots, reload, fire one or two shots, tactical cloak, and fire off the remaining one or two shots with the damage bonus. With a widow the decision to fire with or without tactical cloak is an all or nothing deal and in the vast majority of cases you'll want to wait until you have cloak before firing.

fluffmoresheep wrote...

To the thread starter: don't dismiss the Viper outright, it's a great rifle. The Valiant is strictly better of course, but many people simply do not have it.

I think the viper might be the most underrated weapon in the game. I loved this weapon.

RamsenC wrote...

Carnifex X is better than the Valiant and more and more people have all golds maxed so it's worth mentioning. I prefer it on Quarian Inf for more sabotage.

The carnifex doesn't even begin to come close to the amount of damage a valiant does in the hands of an infiltrator.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Updated, more like Revamped

[mokachino]

You should choose radius instead of damage for PM. A lot more useful

[grpm]

I use 6/5/6/6/3, I think is the best build.

[Crimson Vanguard]

grpm wrote...

I use 6/5/6/6/3, I think is the best build.

^This also works well but 6/6/6/6/0 works really well before Bioware decided to fck up everything

[Crimson Vanguard]

mokachino wrote...

You should choose radius instead of damage for PM. A lot more useful

PM radius already pretty big.

[atum]

Nice guide/revamp! Some of the 3.5/5 type ratings might be a little off IMHO, but generally correct.

I would just add Operative Package as a Gear recommendation (for Snipers ofc).

Possibly Warp Ammo (if out of incendiary or something).


Re: Fitness

I also would have to agree with 6/5/6/6/3 as an SI build. I think I even toyed with 6/5/6/4/5 at one point. Cant remember now -- it was an odd build with points left over, but it worked nicely.

One of his strengths is shield restoration/sturdiness. If you go without fitness a single Marauder will down you if you are not at 100% shields. I'd say play to his strengths and forgo the last damage of PM, as the debuff is the best part of PM.

//all IMHO

Modifié par atum, 22 août 2012 - 06:41 .

[atum]

Here was my weird build btw:

http://narida.pytalh...2@0DEOFQ4R4@0@0

6/5/6/4/5
2 points left over.  An odd build, but I liked it. Probably could have swapped some amps.

Sniper using Valiant III or BW IV

TC: Damage, Recharge, Sniper (6)
PM: Damage, Damage Taken (5)
ED: Damage, Drain, Armor (6)
SO: Power Damage & Capacity (4)
FT: Durability, Shield (5)

Modifié par atum, 22 août 2012 - 06:50 .