255 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

She's not speculating.

Then what percentage completed ME3?

[hoorayforicecream]

kbct wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

You can rationalize all you like, but you're still just using circumstantial evidence and speculation. Whatever conclusion you draw is still based on your opinion and interpretation of (questionable) evidence.

The evidence is not circumstantial nor is it speculative. My original statement was:

"The pro-enders are just the distinct minority. Only 1 in 50 people liked the ending as-is."
 
In order to like or dislike the ending, you need to experience the ending. You are the one that wants to speculate on the percentage that completed the game.

It's still disingenuous, because you're implying there's a dichotomy. There are more opinions than "pro-ending" and "anti-ending". There are those who don't care and those who don't feel strongly about it either way (which I believe is the largest group), but you're specifically using language to make it seem as if this group belongs to the group of those who dislike the ending.

[mesmerizedish]

kbct wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

She's not speculating.

Then what percentage completed ME3?

I never said I knew.

But I will break it down. ~50% of people who started ME2 finished it. This means that ~50% of people who started ME2 did not finish it.

If a majority of ME3 players want a new ending, >50% (by the loosest definition of majority) of players have to want a new ending.

This means that, if as many people finished ME3 as finished ME2, 100% of people who finished the game want a new ending.

This requirement of 100% becomes less stringent if we allow for increasingly greater percentages of completed playthroughs.

But you have yet to provide ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that significantly more people finished ME3 than ME2.

And if your position is "100% (or close enough to it) of people who experienced the ending want a new one," then I'm sorry, but there really is nothing anyone can do to help pull you out of your hole of self-selectivity and back into reality.

[Lycius]

This is nothing but a display of denial by Bioware and a subtle insult. Clarifying their "Artistic Vision" is nothing but saying we are too stupid to "Get it" and need to have it explained to us.

These cinematics are going to fix the glaring and canon destroying plot holes, which invalidate entire portions of the earlier games?

Oh, let's see, Star-child controls the Reapers and lives in the citadel. Entire concept of ME1 destroyed.

Protheans break the remote switch to activate the citadel relay in a selfless suicide trip through the conduit.
Star-child does it anyway, since it's in his livingroom.
ME1 is now pointless.

This game was shoved out the door in an incomplete form, which is why there are giant holes all in the story. I fail to believe that Bioware is capable of just plain terrible inconsistency on this level unless they were under duress by marketing etc...

Thank them all you wish but this is nothing but a slap in the face.

[kbct]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

kbct wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

You can rationalize all you like, but you're still just using circumstantial evidence and speculation. Whatever conclusion you draw is still based on your opinion and interpretation of (questionable) evidence.

The evidence is not circumstantial nor is it speculative. My original statement was:

"The pro-enders are just the distinct minority. Only 1 in 50 people liked the ending as-is."
 
In order to like or dislike the ending, you need to experience the ending. You are the one that wants to speculate on the percentage that completed the game.

It's still disingenuous, because you're implying there's a dichotomy. There are more opinions than "pro-ending" and "anti-ending". There are those who don't care and those who don't feel strongly about it either way (which I believe is the largest group), but you're specifically using language to make it seem as if this group belongs to the group of those who dislike the ending.

Not when the poll is skewed to badly it shows only 1 in 50 liked the ending as-is. Provide some evidence to suggest people don't care. It the poll was more evenly split I would tend to agree with you.

[kbct]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

kbct wrote...

Then what percentage completed ME3?

I never said I knew.

I said the majority of people don't like the ending. In order to not like the ending, you have to experience the ending. I never said anything about the people who didn't complete the game.

Modifié par kbct, 10 avril 2012 - 11:39 .

[mesmerizedish]

kbct wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

kbct wrote...

Then what percentage completed ME3?

I never said I knew.

I said the majority of people don't like the ending. In order to not like the ending, you have to experience the ending. I never said anything about the people who didn't complete the game.

That you think this in any way helps you is kind of adorable.

[hoorayforicecream]

kbct wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

kbct wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

You can rationalize all you like, but you're still just using circumstantial evidence and speculation. Whatever conclusion you draw is still based on your opinion and interpretation of (questionable) evidence.

The evidence is not circumstantial nor is it speculative. My original statement was:

"The pro-enders are just the distinct minority. Only 1 in 50 people liked the ending as-is."
 
In order to like or dislike the ending, you need to experience the ending. You are the one that wants to speculate on the percentage that completed the game.

It's still disingenuous, because you're implying there's a dichotomy. There are more opinions than "pro-ending" and "anti-ending". There are those who don't care and those who don't feel strongly about it either way (which I believe is the largest group), but you're specifically using language to make it seem as if this group belongs to the group of those who dislike the ending.

Not when the poll is skewed to badly it shows only 1 in 50 liked the ending as-is. Provide some evidence to suggest people don't care. It the poll was more evenly split I would tend to agree with you.

Simple. Repeat after me.

The BSN is not representative of the entire fanbase. The BSN is not representative of the entire fanbase. The BSN is not representative of the entire fanbase .

There's been plenty of evidence in the past that game forums are not representative of the entire fanbase. The group that does post to forums is both small and self-selecting. There's plenty of evidence of this. It's been noted in MMOG forums especially, which are typically even worse than the BSN.

Basically, you're polling those who are the hardest of the hard core. People who are invested in the game soooooo much that they want to keep interacting with it even when they aren't playing it. These are not representative of the usual player. Not at all.

I believe that most of the BSN dislikes the ending. I don't believe that the BSN is in any way representative of the total population of players that actually played and finished ME3.

[kbct]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

kbct wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

kbct wrote...

Then what percentage completed ME3?

I never said I knew.

I said the majority of people don't like the ending. In order to not like the ending, you have to experience the ending. I never said anything about the people who didn't complete the game.

That you think this in any way helps you is kind of adorable.

Others can judge for themselves. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

[kbct]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The BSN is not representative of the entire fanbase. The BSN is not representative of the entire fanbase. The BSN is not representative of the entire fanbase .

Even a biased, self-selecting poll has predictive power when the sample size is large enough and the results are lopsided enough. You only need to increase the margin of error. Understand?

[rapscallioness]

earthonline wrote...

Just read here:

Pax East 2012 Bioware and Mass Effect 3 Panel Part 2: Extended Cut DLC

Producer Mike Gamble: "
We wanted to clarify a number of things. That we actually answer the questions. We are all on Twitter, Facebook. We have the community team feed us the questions that you guys have. We want to give more closure, answer questions, fill in some of the unknowns, give the players a sense of personalization with the endings, many people mentioned that some of the choices that were within the game are not necessarily reflected in the ending scenes, we're definitely going to focus on things like that, we want to make sure that when you see the ending of Mass Effect you now have the information in the context to feel satisfied. " 

THANKS BIOWARE for listening to us!!! We love you!!!

Please post here to support Bioware!!! <3<3<3

the bolded is the part i like.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

earthonline wrote...

Just read here:

Pax East 2012 Bioware and Mass Effect 3 Panel Part 2: Extended Cut DLC

Producer Mike Gamble: "
We wanted to clarify a number of things. That we actually answer the questions. We are all on Twitter, Facebook. We have the community team feed us the questions that you guys have. We want to give more closure, answer questions, fill in some of the unknowns, give the players a sense of personalization with the endings, many people mentioned that some of the choices that were within the game are not necessarily reflected in the ending scenes, we're definitely going to focus on things like that, we want to make sure that when you see the ending of Mass Effect you now have the information in the context to feel satisfied. " 

THANKS BIOWARE for listening to us!!! We love you!!!

Please post here to support Bioware!!! <3<3<3

I will neither troll nor attack your opinion sir I will just respecfully disagree. I actually lost respect for the company after watching the PAX conference with Bioware. I do not believe they listened I do not believe they did anything different nor paid us any mind. I believe in a much more negative spin. I saw it as a cop out and a way to buy time until fans forget or the thing blows over or to calm us from being angry until the event. I will wait for the DLC and hope to be wrong but until then I have no expectations or respect for either company and PAX only strengthened my resolve to spend no more money on either company. Just as you have your right to be happy about PAX I have my right to be utterly insulted and pissed off about it.  

Always Hope
Expect nothing. 

Modifié par ShepardTheHopeful, 11 avril 2012 - 12:00 .

[Calians]

http://ferretbrain.c...les/article-853 heres a leak...have fun reading it and then feel disappointed
note:its a joke

Modifié par Calians, 11 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[The Irish Man]

Before we get all mushy. Lets see the DLC first before we start loving BioWare again. I have a bad feeling about this...

[kbct]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

There is a 100% margin of error. I'm always right so now listen to me.

It's about a 20% margin of error for small sample, self-selecting polls.

[rapscallioness]

The Irish Man wrote...

Before we get all mushy. Lets see the DLC first before we start loving BioWare again. I have a bad feeling about this...

i agree. let's see the DLC before we start loving, or hating, bioware again. at this point the ball is in their court.

although it's hard for me not to love bioware. lol. love bioware. but........i did feel cheated at the end of me3. i've never felt that way in the other me games.

i don't have a bad feeling about it, tho. we'll see what they do. i really, really, hope they kick butt with it. but if not then..meh. life goes on. eff it.

i prolly won't be preordering any CE's again. from anybody. this was the very first time i ever preordered any video game. i loved alot of me3, but, yeah, the destination is important, too.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

I didn't have a bad feeling until PAX

[foxfeathers]

Thanks Bioware! Honestly, I had no problems with the ending in the first place, but I'm obviously in a minority that likes brief, bittersweet endings that don't answer all the questions.

Still, a little bit of closure isn't going to hurt

All the people having tantrums are getting on my nerves. The idea of changing an entire ending because some people didn't like it is completely and utterly ridiculous.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

SRobson wrote...

Thanks Bioware! Honestly, I had no problems with the ending in the first place, but I'm obviously in a minority that likes brief, bittersweet endings that don't answer all the questions.

Still, a little bit of closure isn't going to hurt

All the people having tantrums are getting on my nerves. The idea of changing an entire ending because some people didn't like it is completely and utterly ridiculous.

I'd agree but this was not SOME it was a very large collection. I don't see it so much as this being the cause for rage. I think it was just the final straw that broke the camels back and EA keeps piling the straw on the poor crippled animal. 

It made sense it was answered but in a poor literary sense. There's a difference between doing an artistic ending up for interpretation. This was not it and many MANY people agree. Granted there are many who are raging about it too much and making us all seem like neanderthals. However between the reasonings the contradictions and PAX I stand by my choice to be rather upset on the matter. 

oh well. Life goes on I just won't give EA any more money. No one says a disatisfied customer has to keep buying a product they don't want nor respect. 

[foxfeathers]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

SRobson wrote...

Thanks Bioware! Honestly, I had no problems with the ending in the first place, but I'm obviously in a minority that likes brief, bittersweet endings that don't answer all the questions.

Still, a little bit of closure isn't going to hurt

All the people having tantrums are getting on my nerves. The idea of changing an entire ending because some people didn't like it is completely and utterly ridiculous.

I'd agree but this was not SOME it was a very large collection. I don't see it so much as this being the cause for rage. I think it was just the final straw that broke the camels back and EA keeps piling the straw on the poor crippled animal. 

It made sense it was answered but in a poor literary sense. There's a difference between doing an artistic ending up for interpretation. This was not it and many MANY people agree. Granted there are many who are raging about it too much and making us all seem like neanderthals. However between the reasonings the contradictions and PAX I stand by my choice to be rather upset on the matter. 

oh well. Life goes on I just won't give EA any more money. No one says a disatisfied customer has to keep buying a product they don't want nor respect. 

Changing an ending because most people didn't like it is equally ridiculous. No one demands this from movies or books.

And I could be wrong about this, but I'm sure there are a decent amount of people out there who finished the game and aren't upset about the ending. They'd just have no particular reason to go on the internet and be vocal about it, right?

[ShepardTheHopeful]

SRobson wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

SRobson wrote...

Thanks Bioware! Honestly, I had no problems with the ending in the first place, but I'm obviously in a minority that likes brief, bittersweet endings that don't answer all the questions.

Still, a little bit of closure isn't going to hurt

All the people having tantrums are getting on my nerves. The idea of changing an entire ending because some people didn't like it is completely and utterly ridiculous.

I'd agree but this was not SOME it was a very large collection. I don't see it so much as this being the cause for rage. I think it was just the final straw that broke the camels back and EA keeps piling the straw on the poor crippled animal. 

It made sense it was answered but in a poor literary sense. There's a difference between doing an artistic ending up for interpretation. This was not it and many MANY people agree. Granted there are many who are raging about it too much and making us all seem like neanderthals. However between the reasonings the contradictions and PAX I stand by my choice to be rather upset on the matter. 

oh well. Life goes on I just won't give EA any more money. No one says a disatisfied customer has to keep buying a product they don't want nor respect. 

Changing an ending because most people didn't like it is equally ridiculous. No one demands this from movies or books.

And I could be wrong about this, but I'm sure there are a decent amount of people out there who finished the game and aren't upset about the ending. They'd just have no particular reason to go on the internet and be vocal about it, right?

Yeah but to play devil's advocate people complain online all the time. Everyone complains about everything this movie was bad etc. But this game created enough hate on the internet to actually revoke the ending in it's original quality. In order for that kind of response this must've been past normal internet trolling and hate. This must've hit a very high number of disatisfied customers.

If you're putting art in a museum and someone says "it sucks" big deal but if an entire community goes into the museum and looks at and a good majority of the people leave that's a need to change your stance or you won't be able to sell more art later on.

It's basic consumerism if there is no demand there's no supply. If they weren't having serious problems with PR then the game wouldn't have changed at all. But this is world wide hate towards a lot of people and it's hard to ignore. 

So there's gotta be someone wrong to a large number of people otherwise this would just be seen as average complaints not world wide news and demanded response. 

[foxfeathers]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

Yeah but to play devil's advocate people complain online all the time. Everyone complains about everything this movie was bad etc. But this game created enough hate on the internet to actually revoke the ending in it's original quality. In order for that kind of response this must've been past normal internet trolling and hate. This must've hit a very high number of disatisfied customers.

If you're putting art in a museum and someone says "it sucks" big deal but if an entire community goes into the museum and looks at and a good majority of the people leave that's a need to change your stance or you won't be able to sell more art later on.

It's basic consumerism if there is no demand there's no supply. If they weren't having serious problems with PR then the game wouldn't have changed at all. But this is world wide hate towards a lot of people and it's hard to ignore. 

So there's gotta be someone wrong to a large number of people otherwise this would just be seen as average complaints not world wide news and demanded response. 

I do understand your point, honestly. And debating is cool n' all, but I'm terrible at it, and thats not the reason I jumped in this thread. All I wanted to do was add one teeny voice of support for Bioware, because they're getting ragged on a lot these past few weeks, and that must be pretty crappy. A thread titled 'THANK YOU, Bioware' seemed like the most appropriate =)

[SLana]

SRobson wrote...
Changing an ending because most people didn't like it is equally ridiculous. No one demands this from movies or books.

Books and movies don't create such involvement in heroes' actions as games do. All decisions and moral choises there were made long ago by author, not by viewer or reader, we can only observe characters development whether we like it or not. We are watching a story, not making it as we partially do in ME.

Modifié par SLana, 11 avril 2012 - 01:39 .