149 réponses à ce sujet

[OhoniX]

"Customer is always right" mantra touches a bit different issue and I would actually agree with the fact that it is not golden. But that mantra means that whatever customer says you must do as he asks. Which I already stated is not case of Bioware and ME3. They are not forced to help us. Which does not mean that our dissatisfaction is not legitimate.

Sure, but dissatisfaction with a product does not entitle anyone to see compensation from the company that produced it. There is no "satisfaction guaranteed" label on my ME3 box, and I doubt there was one on yours either.

You are making a cardinal mistake. You assume that everyone who are silent are liking the ending. I dont want to sound rude. But this is just a totally wrong assumption. A fallacy. Please dont use fallacies in discussions.

All that I'm assuming is that they don't care enough to take a dump all over Bioware's boards about it. Maybe they'd like a new ending, maybe they don;t, but clearly they aren't up in arms about it. It's possible that more than 10% of the game's population did not enjoy the ending, but the Enders have no basis to make any such claim. All they can claim as a fact is that a very small minority doesn't like the ending, anything more than that is pure speculation.

Which is why Bioware should be payed for this work. Payed for a work for which there is big demand. I dont know why they decided to release it for free.

From my perspective, you're right. I would pay for them to make more content, but you know as well as I how poorly the community would take it. If they charged even $5 for a DLC epilogue, 1. the community would instantly erupt with rants about being forced to "pay for the ending", which started before they even announced the new DLC, 2. there would be demands that they make it free, because they "owed us," and 3. when people did inevitably buy it anyways, they would play it and inevitably be unsatisfied by it, because there's no ending that could possibly meet everyone's expectations of it. Trying to charge for it would cause more harm than good.

I am not making campaign against Bioware. I am making sure that the flow of feedback is kept alive and I will do so until Extended Cut is released.

So essentially you're bleeding them until they get better. Well it worked in the medieval times. Let's be clear, there is no benefit whatsoever to "keeping the flow of feedback alive." Not for anyone. Once feedback has been established, one you've ONCE expressed your opinion of the game and what they should do about it, you've accomplished anything positive you're ever going to accomplish. Anything beyond that is pure destructive behavior, tearing down at their public image for no positive effect.

If your goal is to make their next game better, then you're failing miserably. If your goal is to harm them as a punitive measure, then kudos.

[Dridengx]

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Only we can live without their games and they'll go out of business without our money.  See how that works?   We support them, not the other way around.

Can you? you've proven for over a month you can't live without Bioware no matter how bad they stick it to you. as for 'our' money, you are just $60 to a multi million dollar company, you don't mean much and neither does 56,000 of you in the grand scheme of things.

[cutegigi]

Dridengx wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Only we can live without their games and they'll go out of business without our money.  See how that works?   We support them, not the other way around.

Can you? you've proven for over a month you can't live without Bioware no matter how bad they stick it to you. as for 'our' money, you are just $60 to a multi million dollar company, you don't mean much and neither does 56,000 of you in the grand scheme of things.

not really. I hate the ending. I stopped playing. Will not buy anymore Bioware and EA, but Im still here for the entertainment value of posts such as yours. 

[spiriticon]

Does anyone seriously think that people on these forums are the ONLY ones buying BioWare products?

You're kind of forgetting the rest of the world here.

[granyte]

Some people here aparently failed statistic class

[Meltemph]

Bioware lacks humility, and I'm sorry to say it. No company that truly believes in its fanbase would point to critics reviews and wave their banner of "artistic intergrity". I company that really cares about itself, and its fans, is one that, yes, can be proud of it's creation, but also have the guts to stand up and say they messed up.

You, imo, gotta give them a break here. They are a publicly traded company, who's income is based on pleasing these market forces. While I hate the ending, I dont think there is anything to gain by saying the individual employee doesn't care... Sure the brand probably doesnt care, but I'm sure the staff does(Some of them anyways).

[FabricatedWookie]

BlahDog wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...
Bioware lacks humility,

I think you mean BioWare's fans.

I think your confused on who pays who.

I think you're confused on who makes games for who.

You are right, Bioware makes games for EA, so they can sell them. Almost forgot.

[Grimskull89]

spiriticon wrote...

Does anyone seriously think that people on these forums are the ONLY ones buying BioWare products?

You're kind of forgetting the rest of the world here.

And those that don't speak English.

[cutegigi]

Grimskull89 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Does anyone seriously think that people on these forums are the ONLY ones buying BioWare products?

You're kind of forgetting the rest of the world here.

And those that don't speak English.

and those that really dont care that much.
buy game, shoot thing, see explosion, see ending, move on to next game.... repeat cycle.

[Aweus]

Sure, but dissatisfaction with a product does not entitle anyone to see compensation from the company that produced it. There is no "satisfaction guaranteed" label on my ME3 box, and I doubt there was one on yours either. 

Again, "satisfaction guaranteed" motto does not fit too well. I am not asking for my money back. I am asking to re-image the endings as a part of new content flow. In fact, I am asking them for a new product that would correct shortcoming of the previous one.

All that I'm assuming is that they don't care enough to take a dump all over Bioware's boards about it. Maybe they'd like a new ending, maybe they don;t, but clearly they aren't up in arms about it. It's possible that more than 10% of the game's population did not enjoy the ending, but the Enders have no basis to make any such claim. All they can claim as a fact is that a very small minority doesn't like the ending, anything more than that is pure speculation.

 
It is fair to say that many simply do not care. But as you said yourself, it does not mean they would not like to see that ending DLC. I agree that number of Retakers and pro-enders are a matter of speculation. But it is you who previously stated as fact that Retakers are a small minority. You only see the numbers of vocal Retakers and count that as the final number. What if I reverse this fallacy? What if I ask you to count all people who are liking the ending and then claim that is everything that pro-enders got?

 From my perspective, you're right. I would pay for them to make more content, but you know as well as I how poorly the community would take it. If they charged even $5 for a DLC epilogue, 1. the community would instantly erupt with rants about being forced to "pay for the ending", which started before they even announced the new DLC, 2. there would be demands that they make it free, because they "owed us," and 3. when people did inevitably buy it anyways, they would play it and inevitably be unsatisfied by it, because there's no ending that could possibly meet everyone's expectations of it. Trying to charge for it would cause more harm than good. 

I dont like extremism no matter from which side is calls. I was actually trying to silence people who month ago demanded from Bioware to give a free DLC. I do not feel entitled for a free stuff on a golden platter with letter of apology attached. I am just hoping for an ending that will allow me and many others to not throw the ME trilogy out the window. Becouse that is how I feel now about ME. While playing ME3 I was wondering if it is not the best gaming franchise I have ever played. I am playing games since late 80. Then comes the ending and I am simply crushed. That does not feel good, I assure you.

So essentially you're bleeding them until they get better. Well it worked in the medieval times. Let's be clear, there is no benefit whatsoever to "keeping the flow of feedback alive." Not for anyone. Once feedback has been established, one you've ONCE expressed your opinion of the game and what they should do about it, you've accomplished anything positive you're ever going to accomplish. Anything beyond that is pure destructive behavior, tearing down at their public image for no positive effect. 
If your goal is to make their next game better, then you're failing miserably. If your goal is to harm them as a punitive measure, then kudos.

 
You should know how forums work. If we stop posting it will be assumed we stopped to care. In a mass of posts like this things needs to be repeated over and over again. Just one post is an opinion about which nobody cares. But same opinion repeated countless times and by multiple people starts to have a statistical weight. It is just how it works. And btw. all those people who are only posting insults on Bioware are trolls. Trolls are bad. Retake or not retake, doesnt matter. Yes, my goal is to make Mass Effect better and I believe that posting about this until EC is out is a correct thing to do.

Modifié par Aweus, 09 avril 2012 - 08:23 .

[BaKaNoOB]

 http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing


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[Flextt]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Freedom1 wrote...

nhsknudsen wrote...

The ending wouldn't have been so bad if... (yes it would still suck with a god kid, but expectations).

It was literally impossible to save everyone in the suicide mission, make both Miranda and Jack stand down happily. Make Legion and Tali stand down happily. Get both Krogan AND Salarian support and making peace between Geth and Quarians.

Now if we had forced choices of death like the VS and we had to make those choices throughout the series with forced loss people wouldn't expect the happy ending, at least not the happy ending where everyone is saved (that we care about; read; crew and Shepard)

Actually in the suicide mission, everyone survived and i didn't have the loyalty of miranda. granted maybe that was because i had her in my party fighting the human reaper but who knows. Point is, everyone survived.

i think the poster's point was that the ability to have pretty much unmitigated success in ME2 helped lead to people's expectations of being able to do so in ME3.

I actually was disappointed myself when I learned that ME2's suicide mission could be completed flawlessly (for me Thane died... ), as I was expecting it to require a sacrifice, similar to ME1.  Though while I think it makes for a less interesting story personally, I do think that that sequence is a well done demonstration of how to make interesting reactivity in a game.


EDIT:  I should have kept reading thread as this was already clarified :S

I fully agree. By making it possible to save everyone the story loses a tragical component and your commitment towards the stakes is actually lower. But it required good decision-making in the very first playthrough and its orchestration was excellent. So for all I know, while ME 2 perfect ending was cliché, it is an example of how cliché and orchestration can work for each other and create something nevertheless satisfying and demanding. I was REALLY REALLY on edge, because I didn't know if I would lose somebody in my first playthrough. Damocles' sword over everyone!

[Avalon Aurora]

I think the bigger problems are that they mislead us about ME3 before release, the game doesn't stand up to the same level of scrutiny as the prior 2 games, they still haven't denounced these original misleading statements, and still pretend they are true, when they are blatant lies at this point, even if they may have been true in the development cycle's original intentions, and are trying to use shifty PR methods to try and sooth or cover up the fan outrage after fooling us into buying the game based upon false PR. They make it worse by trying to throw a band-aid on the problem with the extended cut, rather than recognizing and acknowledging the many coherent arguments and proofs of the problems with the ending and many aspects of the game overall which they specifically asked us for, with an extended cut that has no hope of truly fixing the real problems we had with the ending, or the underlying issues that made it fall apart to begin with, and are instead trying to shore up some of their mistakes by addressing only a small portion of the fan complaints that does not require the fixing of any plot holes or even half of the false PR. They might be providing more closure and clarity, but they still aren't getting rid of the illogical and massively broken plot and themes, nor the Deus-Ex rip-off, nor favoring Chobot over Tali, adding a questionable and mostly unwanted and disliked multi-player over making the single player game better, and all sorts of other issues. They also clearly didn't test the game sufficiently prior to release, given major bugs like the face-import issue, which should have been detected very early in the development cycles while they were testing imports from prior games, which is a key factor in the ME series, and have an abundance of mis-used or underdone or non-original art assets that make shocking laziness apparent, although Tali's face portrait was the most disgusting and obvious form of this, the color coded ending space magic bursts was nearly as bad.

I'm hoping I'm wrong about the extended-cut, or they'll change their mind and actually go back and fix things and properly finish the game like they should have if the development cycle wasn't pushed like they should have.

[Manton-X2]

OhoniX wrote...

I know it's easy to point at the more childish and less rationale members of the community, but they're the minority.

I know that the majority are fine with the ending, but the anti-ending people are just so noisy, and entitled.

Do you really?  And how do you know this?  Because everything I am seeing points to the fact that people who are -not- fine with the ending are the majority.  The problem is, apparently it's hard for some people to comprehend that the Retake movement is not the whole of the fanbase dissatisfied with the ending.   Even the gaming sites that torched the anti-ending gamers and who still make light of them are admitting that the majoriy of players dislike the ending.  More and more you see gaming journalists who weren't assigned to the game but who have played it since the furor began who agree that the ending was poor at best.  Even IGN came out with a one-hour Spoilercast which was in direct opposition to the 10/10 Perfect rating given by the IGN reviewers assigned the game.

So no, you really don't know the majority are fine with it.  If that were true, I doubt you would be able to get the game 3 weeks after launch at 35-50% off release price.

[Allan Schumacher]

Flextt wrote...

I fully agree. By making it possible to save everyone the story loses a tragical component and your commitment towards the stakes is actually lower. But it required good decision-making in the very first playthrough and its orchestration was excellent. So for all I know, while ME 2 perfect ending was cliché, it is an example of how cliché and orchestration can work for each other and create something nevertheless satisfying and demanding. I was REALLY REALLY on edge, because I didn't know if I would lose somebody in my first playthrough. Damocles' sword over everyone!

That's actually a really good point.  I remember pointing out to a friend of mine that he shouldn't let a game's illusion of choice stain his opinion of Deus Ex, because on a second playthrough he tried to do something he thought was a genuine option in the first playthrough (join UNATCO).

In this sense, as long as I have kept myself spoiler free, an ideal ending that is very difficult to achieve isn't something I should hold against the game.  Thinking about it a bit more, I think one issue with ME2 is that I didn't find the optimal ending that difficult to actually achieve.  In fact, without realizing the scope of my decisions, I almost achieved it my first playthrough and would have if I had chosen someone other than Thane to go into the tube.  All I really did though was play the game the way I would have normally (doing most side missions taht I found interesting).

Is this that atypical of a playthrough?  Or maybe we should consider requiring more "off the beaten path" type of stuff in order to obtain our super ending of awesome?

[Grimskull89]

Dridengx wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Only we can live without their games and they'll go out of business without our money.  See how that works?   We support them, not the other way around.

Can you? you've proven for over a month you can't live without Bioware no matter how bad they stick it to you. as for 'our' money, you are just $60 to a multi million dollar company, you don't mean much and neither does 56,000 of you in the grand scheme of things.

/rant

Looking at your list of games registered to your account and mine, there are a lot of copies correct? We are loyal gamers, Bioware snatched me up as a customer when I tried ME1 on the xbox years ago. I started hearing great things about DA:O, and went crazy over that. I've even gone back and played KoToR (never understood why I couldn't add that or ME1 to my list of games but this idea is off-topic)

Loyal customers make up a good portion of any consumer base that a company has established. It is important to keep said customers. As a happy customer, I tell people to buy Bioware's games. Mass Effect was such a series, that I would suggest to people before.

Lying to customers, raising the prices on products, no longer carrying certain products, and even selling low quality products are all bad practices. Customers can only remain loyal for so long.

Of which, some users have been making cases that Bioware has lied, and the ending is not up to par. Is it wrong for me to make the company that I am loyal to, accountable for such actions?

$60 is a lot of money for a game ($87 dollars in the case of ME3 Collector's Edition), I expect a lot from a company who has done well thus far. They have a great track history because they know what their fans want because they listen. During the development of ME3, they listened heavily. Tali almost didn't become a squadmate in ME3, she was going to be a story character but you know what? the community helped change their mind.

It is amazing that fans have a chance to affect how games are produced, and this is the type of relationship that Bioware has with it's community. Which is why so many are loyal and determined to see movements like the RME see their goal.

/end rant

[Grimskull89]

cutegigi wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Does anyone seriously think that people on these forums are the ONLY ones buying BioWare products?

You're kind of forgetting the rest of the world here.

And those that don't speak English.

and those that really dont care that much.
buy game, shoot thing, see explosion, see ending, move on to next game.... repeat cycle.

Those that don't care much, wouldn't actively participate in an open forum environment to discuss what they like or don't like about video games now would they?

[OhoniX]

Again, "satisfaction guaranteed" motto does not fit too well. I am not asking for my money back. I am asking to re-image the endings as a part of new content flow. In fact, I am asking them for a new product that would correct shortcoming of the previous one.

So even more than just asking for your money back for a product that did not satisfy you, you're actually asking that they redesign the product that you already purchased to meet your specific demands? How very magnanimous of you. I should talk to Ford about getting a sunroof in my car. . .

In fact, I am asking them for a new product that would correct shortcoming of the previous one.

As I said, perhaps you would be willing to pay, but the act of them even asking for payment for this sort of DLC would result in far more fan outrage, if not from you than from others, then it could possibly build in fan loyalty. If you're genuinely serious about wanting to pay for it then get a Kickstarter going, you'd only need to raise a few hundred thousand, most likely.

But it is you who previously stated as fact that Retakers are a small minority.

They are. That's a fact. If they aren't visible then they aren't, by definition, Enders.

What if I ask you to count all people who are liking the ending and then claim that is everything that pro-enders got?

Then I would arrive at a smaller number, but that isn't necessary because the people who are fine with the ending aren't asking for anything. We don't need to prove our numbers because we aren't trying to accomplish anything on the basis that our majority position entitles us to it. If we were two camps each asking that Bioware spend thousands of manhours working in two opposite directions then we would share an equal burden of proof, but since only one side is demanding extraordinary action, it falls entirely on that side to prove their worthiness.

You should know how forums work. If we stop posting it will be assumed we stopped to care. In a mass of posts like this things needs to be repeated over and over again. Just one post is an opinion about which nobody cares. But same opinion repeated countless times and by multiple people starts to have a statistical weight. It is just how it works. And btw. all those people who are only posting insults on Bioware are trolls. Trolls are bad. Retake or not retake, doesnt matter. Yes, my goal is to make Mass Effect better and I believe that posting about this until EC is out is a correct thing to do.

Again, bleeding the patient until he miraculously recovers. Stating your opinion a dozen times does not make it any more worth listening to than the first time. If all you were genuinely interested in was making sure Bioware knew you were not yet satisfied, you could do so in a private manner that would not negatively effect their public image.

Because everything I am seeing points to the fact that people who are -not- fine with the ending are the majority.

Logical fallacy. It's why serious issues are rarely decided using "shout meters". If you have a crowd of 100 people and 10 of them yell REALLY loudly while the other 90 are silent, a listener might believe that the majority are on the side of the 10%.

So no, you really don't know the majority are fine with it. If that were true, I doubt you would be able to get the game 3 weeks after launch at 35-50% off release price.

You can for a lot of games. After launch most retailers just want to push used copies. You're sort of supporting my point though. All of this unfocused rage has hurt the game's image, which may have resulted in decreased sales. This means that Bioware is making less money. That means that they'll have less money to spend on developing their next games, which means that they'll be even more limited in scope. If you thought that DA2 or ME3 were "rushed" or "too limited", reducing the funding for their next project isn't likely to result in better results.

Modifié par OhoniX, 09 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[lillitheris]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is this that atypical of a playthrough?  Or maybe we should consider requiring more "off the beaten path" type of stuff in order to obtain our super ending of awesome?

In a word, no.

Using the example of ME2, the number of people who got the mission perfect on the first try is probably minuscule. Most probably hadn't even gotten all the necessary loyalty missions done before hitting it.

And if someone wants to ‘cheat’, they can and will. At that point it's just a matter of assigning resources, there's really no skill required beyond the norm (and that's fine). That means that trying to come up with ways to thwart cheating in single-player games (an absurd concept in and of itself) ends up being killing characters for the sake of it and without the player being able to stop it* and similar tricks, which will just frustrate those who don't cheat. Kinda like pretty much everything in life!


* The Kai Leng sequence in ME3 was so bad. He'd have been dead in about 2 seconds if my character played ‘normally’.

Modifié par lillitheris, 09 avril 2012 - 08:47 .

[DESTRAUDO]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Flextt wrote...

I fully agree. By making it possible to save everyone the story loses a tragical component and your commitment towards the stakes is actually lower. But it required good decision-making in the very first playthrough and its orchestration was excellent. So for all I know, while ME 2 perfect ending was cliché, it is an example of how cliché and orchestration can work for each other and create something nevertheless satisfying and demanding. I was REALLY REALLY on edge, because I didn't know if I would lose somebody in my first playthrough. Damocles' sword over everyone!

That's actually a really good point.  I remember pointing out to a friend of mine that he shouldn't let a game's illusion of choice stain his opinion of Deus Ex, because on a second playthrough he tried to do something he thought was a genuine option in the first playthrough (join UNATCO).

In this sense, as long as I have kept myself spoiler free, an ideal ending that is very difficult to achieve isn't something I should hold against the game.  Thinking about it a bit more, I think one issue with ME2 is that I didn't find the optimal ending that difficult to actually achieve.  In fact, without realizing the scope of my decisions, I almost achieved it my first playthrough and would have if I had chosen someone other than Thane to go into the tube.  All I really did though was play the game the way I would have normally (doing most side missions taht I found interesting).

Is this that atypical of a playthrough?  Or maybe we should consider requiring more "off the beaten path" type of stuff in order to obtain our super ending of awesome?

I got everyone out on my first playthrough, but it more or less came down to luck with my choices for vent and barrier. The thing with a perfect end though is once it was widely known how to do it most people would have. Pretty much anyone paragoning would have the ability to get a perfect run in me2 once they knew who to send on what missions so as long as they had a save for before the omega relay jump they could do it easy.

My issue with ME2 in retrospect is that by allowing the player to reconsile fights between squads with high enough paragon/renegade, which allowed for perfect runs, it allowed players to gain a false expectation that you could do it in 3 as well. There was no such expectation in 1. There was no way to save kaiden and ashley. There was a hard choice and you had to deal with it.    

So i think giving players a way to get off the hook in two may have worked against 3. 

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 09 avril 2012 - 08:50 .

[Flextt]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Flextt wrote...

I fully agree. By making it possible to save everyone the story loses a tragical component and your commitment towards the stakes is actually lower. But it required good decision-making in the very first playthrough and its orchestration was excellent. So for all I know, while ME 2 perfect ending was cliché, it is an example of how cliché and orchestration can work for each other and create something nevertheless satisfying and demanding. I was REALLY REALLY on edge, because I didn't know if I would lose somebody in my first playthrough. Damocles' sword over everyone!

That's actually a really good point.  I remember pointing out to a friend of mine that he shouldn't let a game's illusion of choice stain his opinion of Deus Ex, because on a second playthrough he tried to do something he thought was a genuine option in the first playthrough (join UNATCO).

In this sense, as long as I have kept myself spoiler free, an ideal ending that is very difficult to achieve isn't something I should hold against the game.  Thinking about it a bit more, I think one issue with ME2 is that I didn't find the optimal ending that difficult to actually achieve.  In fact, without realizing the scope of my decisions, I almost achieved it my first playthrough and would have if I had chosen someone other than Thane to go into the tube.  All I really did though was play the game the way I would have normally (doing most side missions taht I found interesting).

Is this that atypical of a playthrough?  Or maybe we should consider requiring more "off the beaten path" type of stuff in order to obtain our super ending of awesome?

Yes, but suspension of disbelief is currently the number one reason why Mass Effect 3 receives so much bad attention. No doubt, BSN could hack ME 2 into pieces just as well. Point is, the illusion of choice was undoubtly there, but we had no reason to see behind it. "Pick a tech expert" is actually a very easy choice. "Pick a leader" too. But then it gets fuzzy and a few variables come together:
- Did you manage to do all loyalty mission before the Reaper IFF, so you can complete Legion's loyalty mission before your crew becomes molten goo?
- Who did you send with the crew? Someone with a high def stat is likely to cause deaths during the final stand
- How high is your accumulated def value for the last stand? Take Grunt and Zaeed with you to the Human-Reaper and there is a high chance someone dies.

During my first playthrough, I obviously didn't know about all the mechanics. I did all the side missions, then the loyalty missions, then the main missions in that priority. This allowed me to get Legion's loyalty and my crew. Since I didn't know otherwise, I always expected someone to die, but it did play out nicely. It was a satisfying experience I was happy to repeat. I had absolutely no reason to suspend my disbelief.
Before ME3, I decided to tailor myself a Vanguard and started ME 1 and 2 again. In the course of ME 2, the decisions above became banal to me. I knew what to do and wanted to take as much squadmates as possible into ME 3. But nevertheless, I was satisfied, because I knew it counted for something. Not as much as I hoped, but they had their cameos and little side quests.

ME's strength had always been orchestration. Paragon Shepard's pursuit for compromise often borders on the cheesy, but it makes fun to watch him. How he rallies the Quarians during Tali's trial. How he makes a speech to his squadmates at the end of ME 2. This could go on forever. ME 3 abandoned this quality at the end for something, that Walters would later describe as "[...] high level". Unfortunately, nobody cared about the big picture. I am well aware of the scope of any of the three decisions, the possible outcomes and the hope they have. But for me, the Turians were all about Garrus. Garrus' problems were the Turians' problems. If I helped him, I helped the Turians. Same with Tali. Just look at the mission design of Palaven and Rannoch. I resolve their issue and in the course of my action resolve the issue of an entire species. They are the faces of something I could barely relate to. By giving them some off-screen demise / future, I lose that connection and stop suspending disbelief.

Edit:

My issue with ME2 in retrospect is that by allowing the player to
reconsile fights between squads with high enough paragon/renegade, which
allowed for perfect runs, it allowed players to gain a false
expectation that you could do it in 3 as well. There was no such
expectation in 1. There was no way to save kaiden and ashley. There was a
hard choice and you had to deal with it.

Thankfully, both their writing was aweful, so I would gladly left both of them on Virmire with the perspective of more romance options in ME 2.

Modifié par Flextt, 09 avril 2012 - 08:50 .

[cutegigi]

Grimskull89 wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Does anyone seriously think that people on these forums are the ONLY ones buying BioWare products?

You're kind of forgetting the rest of the world here.

And those that don't speak English.

and those that really dont care that much.
buy game, shoot thing, see explosion, see ending, move on to next game.... repeat cycle.

Those that don't care much, wouldn't actively participate in an open forum environment to discuss what they like or don't like about video games now would they?

yes. thats pretty much my main point. :happy:

[Manton-X2]

You know what I would love to see to kind of add another layer of context to this whole discussion? How many people have actually finished the game. Everytime people talk about the numbers, they take the entire total sales figure and apply that. How many of that total have actually put in the 25-30+ hours to finish the game? Ah well, XboxLive could tell by the achievement but I'm sure they won't be posting that info.

MX2

[Flextt]

Manton-X2 wrote...

You know what I would love to see to kind of add another layer of context to this whole discussion? How many people have actually finished the game. Everytime people talk about the numbers, they take the entire total sales figure and apply that. How many of that total have actually put in the 25-30+ hours to finish the game? Ah well, XboxLive could tell by the achievement but I'm sure they won't be posting that info.

MX2

2 playthrough for ME 3
4 playthroughs for ME 1 and in succession ME 2
Additional 3 playthroughs for ME 1 only
Additional 2 playthroughs for ME 2 only

My Vanguard, which I started late February to prepare for ME 3 has an accumulated worth in hours of about 60-70. I would call myself quite immersed and engaged in the ME universe.

[Grimskull89]

cutegigi wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

Grimskull89 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Does anyone seriously think that people on these forums are the ONLY ones buying BioWare products?

You're kind of forgetting the rest of the world here.

And those that don't speak English.

and those that really dont care that much.
buy game, shoot thing, see explosion, see ending, move on to next game.... repeat cycle.

Those that don't care much, wouldn't actively participate in an open forum environment to discuss what they like or don't like about video games now would they?

yes. thats pretty much my main point. :happy:

and a lack of sleep has me confused