155 réponses à ce sujet

[jaydubs67]

Achire wrote...

Does anyone have a high level Talon? You can get 200% recharge with I would imagine Talon VII or so after the recent buff. I'm stuck at Talon I which gives +155%, which is a little low for me. Seems like excellent damage for the weight (higher than Eviscerator X at lvl I), 4 round clip, fast fire rate and high DPS but high recoil.

A high level Paladin also looks like it would be exceptional for a vanguard.  Same weight, similar (slightly higher) DPS, better accuracy, slightly less ammo and capacity.  It's too bad it will take forever to get either up to a reasonable weapon level.  

[RogueWolfie]

Awesome guide, the only other one I've seen lately was one specifically for bronze...

[Broganisity]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Achire wrote...

Does anyone have a high level Talon? You can get 200% recharge with I would imagine Talon VII or so after the recent buff. I'm stuck at Talon I which gives +155%, which is a little low for me. Seems like excellent damage for the weight (higher than Eviscerator X at lvl I), 4 round clip, fast fire rate and high DPS but high recoil.

A high level Paladin also looks like it would be exceptional for a vanguard.  Same weight, similar (slightly higher) DPS, better accuracy, slightly less ammo and capacity.  It's too bad it will take forever to get either up to a reasonable weapon level.  

Both weapons are great additions for a Vanguard. The Paladin (coincidentally that's what I call my Vanguard), if leveled enough, gives you the large damage spikes you need at close range, and would also let you fight better at a distance when charging isn't an option...All with a decent weight The Talon is also a viable option given that it will pass the shield gate while you are up close, and gives you a little more room for error. Remember: For a vanguard, it's all about Burst damage...You're essentially a close range Infiltrator in that regard...only with much more style and flair...and can survive just about anything.

The problem with these weapons is the time it takes to properly level them. I'm at a Talon II myself, and currently I don't feel it's worth it compared to the Wraith III+ (especially now that I don't have to carry about the spare ammo mod!). So really N7 Grade Weapons in general are a bit iffy in that regard.

Serkevan wrote...

I understand that, and yes, I played
Gunz, which was crazy fun... The thing is, Nova cancel should have a
cooldown of, say, 3-4 seconds (rough estimate). Not nova itself, but the
ability to cancel it; that way you please both the people, like me, who
don't like the idea of being totally untouchable, while allowing for
some extra breathing room in a tight situation, while you stop
the OMG I HAS L337 SKILLZ people who cancel all day long, because they
thing that being invulnerable will kill cannibals.

I very much agree. Sometimes I find myself incessantly nova-cancelling out of panic due to some little part in my head that wants me to roll out of my nova every time I see more than one banshee (I try not to but it happens to everyone!), which really doesn't contribute anything to the effort other than me not dying every two seconds...which is good, the not dying part, but still: If nova-canceling was a legitimate technique they intentionally implimented, by all means give it a cooldown about the same as pull...maybe a little less or a little more: let's you still pull it off, but not so much in a way that it feels like you're cheating.

But it wasn't intentionally added so for the time being I get to be Paladin: The Dubsteb Biotic! *Raaah! Boom! Wubububububub!*

Modifié par Broganisity, 18 avril 2012 - 09:10 .

[Broganisity]

Added additional weapon information along with some suggested combos.

Also I'm still eating that box of Reeses Puffs...thanks!

[samb]

One important thing to remember about the power recharge is that it's effects stack. If in 15 secs you do 2 novas, your cooldown will drop by 50% rather than only 25%. If you do 3 within 15 seconds it jumps to 75% and so on. So before the wave even starts you can spam novas to get the most bonus. I feel I kill a lot faster with this evolution rather than double blast and it allows me to carry a much heavier shotgun. This should make it on par with half blast.

[samb]

quick question: If i nova cancel do I gain the benefits of power recharge?

[Broganisity]

samb wrote...

One important thing to remember about the power recharge is that it's effects stack. If in 15 secs you do 2 novas, your cooldown will drop by 50% rather than only 25%. If you do 3 within 15 seconds it jumps to 75% and so on. So before the wave even starts you can spam novas to get the most bonus. I feel I kill a lot faster with this evolution rather than double blast and it allows me to carry a much heavier shotgun. This should make it on par with half blast.

samb wrote...

quick question: If i nova cancel do I gain the benefits of power recharge?

I've been tinkering with Power Recharge over Half-Blast lately, it's useful but that added defense after half-blast helps you fire off your weapons before another nova/dying. Can't give you anything conclusive yet, but from what I see you have to actually lose your shields from the nova to gain the effects of the Power Recharge. I'll look into it a bit more and get back to you.

[samb]

Broganisity wrote...

I've been tinkering with Power Recharge over Half-Blast lately, it's useful but that added defense after half-blast helps you fire off your weapons before another nova/dying. Can't give you anything conclusive yet, but from what I see you have to actually lose your shields from the nova to gain the effects of the Power Recharge. I'll look into it a bit more and get back to you.

The idea to playing power recharge is to stack up your cooldown benefits so you can instantly charge again while enemies are still staggered.  It also allows you carry heavier weapons while still having a good cooldown.

I still prefer half blast, much more room for error, but I've been playing around with this build solo'ing silver and it has been doing the job quite effectivily.  Not sure how to check if nova cancelling will give the bonus or not.  I hope so but kind of doubt it.  Let me know what you find.

[Broganisity]

samb wrote...

quick question: If i nova cancel do I gain the benefits of power recharge?

Alright I've tested it a bit more and I've noticed no difference when Nova-Canceling. But maybe I'm just cancelling too early, but from the looks of it it doesn't.

[Fox544]

I'm confused. No offense but isn't Vanguard kinda the class for thick people? Do we really need a guide? (I say this while having a lvl 20 Vanguard because its so gosh darned easy). I admire your detail and definitely enthusiasm but yeah.

[Zenning]

Er.. TC.

I'd just like to say that a single nova Manguard has about 50% more damage potential than the double nova Vangaurd.  And, if they're both good enough, will both never die anyway.

Just sayian.

Modifié par Zenning, 19 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[samb]

Fox544 wrote...

I'm confused. No offense but isn't Vanguard kinda the class for thick people? Do we really need a guide? (I say this while having a lvl 20 Vanguard because its so gosh darned easy). I admire your detail and definitely enthusiasm but yeah.

I'm am glad you consider getting to 20 to be a major accomplishment. Good for you, I am happy you are satisfied with being mediocore.  But you see, excelling and playing a vanguard at a high level without dying is very very hard.  I have a toon in every class at level 20 and it was easy, I guess that means all classes are for "thick people"?

You just couldn't write a post that DIDN'T insult people right?  ****g kids these days. 

[Broganisity]

Zenning wrote...

Er.. TC.

I'd just like to say that a single nova Manguard has about 50% more damage potential than the double nova Vangaurd.  And, if they're both good enough, will both never die anyway.

Just sayian.

Very true, the double nova gives you more room for error, and that's something worth having. Especially if you also opt for weapon damage like I do. I'm working on giving more different tactics as well, and I'd appreciate your more detailed advice.

[Broganisity]

samb wrote...

Fox544 wrote...

I'm confused. No offense but isn't Vanguard kinda the class for thick people? Do we really need a guide? (I say this while having a lvl 20 Vanguard because its so gosh darned easy). I admire your detail and definitely enthusiasm but yeah.

I'm am glad you consider getting to 20 to be a major accomplishment. Good for you, I am happy you are satisfied with being mediocore.  But you see, excelling and playing a vanguard at a high level without dying is very very hard.  I have a toon in every class at level 20 and it was easy, I guess that means all classes are for "thick people"?

You just couldn't write a post that DIDN'T insult people right?  ****g kids these days. 

This thread is not here for arguing with one another and throwing about petty insults.

There are people out there who have a hard time getting used to the vanguard in the new system, and this guide, along with the people who help me add to it, are here to give them the advice they need and want. If we can't keep outselves civil and helpful then there's no point in even continuing.

Fox, it's easy to get to level twenty, but that doesn't make the game easy. I'm sure you've had questions about facing certain opponents as well as working with other classes, and Samb: there's no need for insulting him, as he has a point.

The Infiltrator cloaks and shoots, the Asari spam warp and throw, Krogans hit things with their heads and shoot big guns. It's simple, but there are a lot of things that put those classes in a bad spot, and the Vanguard is no different.

All classes are simple to figure out, hard to master, and advice is always welcome on improving your skills. How does a Vanguard perform their role efficiently? How does an Infiltrator support their team during an upload objective on Reactor? Does a Krogan have to focus solely on Melee? We all have questions we'd like answered, you can either ask them and in turn give that advice to others, or you can spend your time harassing one another and getting no where.

Don't continue this argument. Go back to helping people.

Modifié par Broganisity, 19 avril 2012 - 03:48 .

[Zenning]

Broganisity wrote...

Zenning wrote...

Er.. TC.

I'd just like to say that a single nova Manguard has about 50% more damage potential than the double nova Vangaurd.  And, if they're both good enough, will both never die anyway.

Just sayian.

Very true, the double nova gives you more room for error, and that's something worth having. Especially if you also opt for weapon damage like I do. I'm working on giving more different tactics as well, and I'd appreciate your more detailed advice.

Here, let me grab this form my other thread.

"
Half blasts second hit does half the damage, since it is based off of shield percentage.

The
recharge reduction stacks, and if you are fast enough, you will have
the exact same amount of invicibility frames, but will be able to charge
about twice as much, and nova only about 20% less, but your Nova does
more damage each time, and it doesn't lose damage in the second strike.

If
you are good enough, single nova is always better in terms of damage
potential, and about the same in surivivability with half blast trumping
it in a few key areas.

Based on some testing, I'd say a single nova MANGUARD has about a 50% increase in damage potential over a double nova Vanguard.

"

If you want specific enemy tactics, work like this.  Focus on Ravagers/Hunters/Phantoms first, then move to Pyro's/Brutes/Engineers and then move to everybody else.  Leave the bosses for last.

Also, it is possible, once you have enough stacks of nova's goin' on,  for you to solo Turrets when they're at full health.

I don't recommend it though, just take out it's shields before you charge em.

If you see two primes, make sure you stand in front of one, so that the other prime can't shoot at you two.  If a prime hit's you  a mini stun, that won't let you charge or nova, and if a second one's there, your shields will be gone in a fraction of a second, and you will die. 

For Atlas's, just keep chargin' and novain' until they do a melee attack, and back off.  Wait for it to shoot, or get staggered, and then contiune.  You'll kill it in no time.

As for Banshee's, generally it's only safe to attack em while they're in an animation, but in general it's still dangerous, so leave em to your allies.

Finally, for Phantom's, if they don't stagger after the charge, roll the hell away right away, and then nova.  Or else you may get stun locked and insta'd.  If you don't feel it's cheating, you can nova roll by novain' and rolling at the exact same time.

[jaydubs67]

Zenning wrote...
The recharge reduction stacks, and if you are fast enough, you will have
the exact same amount of invicibility frames, but will be able to charge
about twice as much, and nova only about 20% less, but your Nova does
more damage each time, and it doesn't lose damage in the second strike.

Are you sure about this?  When I played without half-blast, I took noticeably more damage.  I know the delay isn't huge, but have you tested it in a "constantly under fire" situation?  I.e. surrounded by pyros.  

This was after using charge -> cancel -> nova cycles to build up recharge bonuses.  

[Zenning]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Zenning wrote...
The recharge reduction stacks, and if you are fast enough, you will have
the exact same amount of invicibility frames, but will be able to charge
about twice as much, and nova only about 20% less, but your Nova does
more damage each time, and it doesn't lose damage in the second strike.

Are you sure about this?  When I played without half-blast, I took noticeably more damage.  I know the delay isn't huge, but have you tested it in a "constantly under fire" situation?  I.e. surrounded by pyros.  

This was after using charge -> cancel -> nova cycles to build up recharge bonuses.  

I have.  I was using the recharge reduction 2 though.  I'm thinking without it, it may not be the case.

And err..  Nova cancel's don't add stacks.

Also, let me add though, exact same may not be the correct phrase.  Both don't take any damage at all when working properly.

Modifié par Zenning, 19 avril 2012 - 04:11 .

[Tazzelrik]

Broganisity wrote...

This thread is not here for arguing with one another and throwing about petty insults.

There are people out there who have a hard time getting used to the vanguard in the new system, and this guide, along with the people who help me add to it, are here to give them the advice they need and want. If we can't keep outselves civil and helpful then there's no point in even continuing.

All classes are simple to figure out, hard to master, and advice is always welcome on improving your skills. How does a Vanguard perform their role efficiently? How does an Infiltrator support their team during an upload objective on Reactor? Does a Krogan have to focus solely on Melee? We all have questions we'd like answered, you can either ask them and in turn give that advice to others, or you can spend your time harassing one another and getting no where.

Don't continue this argument. Go back to helping people.

Thank you very much for putting this guide up.
As you have said getting classes to level 20 is easy, but mastering them is quite hard.

I for one find it hard to play a Vanguard effectively, and always go back to my reliable Salarian Engineer instead.
I know that this guide is for Human Vanguards but is there any chance you could give some advice with regards to Krogran Battlemasters?

I unlocked it over the weekend, but really can't use the character properly.

[samb]

 Don't feed the troll. Got it. 

Against cerebus I have the most problems with turrets. A single one will stun me when it explodes and a pair of them rip me up.  How do it deal with a pair of these things?  Kill from distance?  Seems a bit slow, especially when troopers are flanking me. 

How about brutes?  They can stun regularly. I haven't faced one on gold but they are hard enough for me to be worried.  Charge from behind?  Wait for them to be hit with a setup power?
Primes and geth in general seem to really like to melee and they seem to be faster at it too. I often find myself knocked out of nova cancelling and unable to do anything. Any advice?

[jaydubs67]

Zenning wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

Zenning wrote...
The recharge reduction stacks, and if you are fast enough, you will have
the exact same amount of invicibility frames, but will be able to charge
about twice as much, and nova only about 20% less, but your Nova does
more damage each time, and it doesn't lose damage in the second strike.

Are you sure about this?  When I played without half-blast, I took noticeably more damage.  I know the delay isn't huge, but have you tested it in a "constantly under fire" situation?  I.e. surrounded by pyros.  

This was after using charge -> cancel -> nova cycles to build up recharge bonuses.  

I have.  I was using the recharge reduction 2 though.  I'm thinking without it, it may not be the case.

And err..  Nova cancel's don't add stacks.

I understand that, but if your recharge speed isn't powered up, charge -> cancel -> nova fills up your charge cooldown with invincibility frames.  

I was actually using a Power Efficiency III when I tried it.  And someone else wrote that the power recharge consumables don't even reduce charge cooldown.  Too many contradictory inputs of data.  Will have to test this.  Sigh.  

[Zenning]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Zenning wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

Zenning wrote...
The recharge reduction stacks, and if you are fast enough, you will have
the exact same amount of invicibility frames, but will be able to charge
about twice as much, and nova only about 20% less, but your Nova does
more damage each time, and it doesn't lose damage in the second strike.

Are you sure about this?  When I played without half-blast, I took noticeably more damage.  I know the delay isn't huge, but have you tested it in a "constantly under fire" situation?  I.e. surrounded by pyros.  

This was after using charge -> cancel -> nova cycles to build up recharge bonuses.  

I have.  I was using the recharge reduction 2 though.  I'm thinking without it, it may not be the case.

And err..  Nova cancel's don't add stacks.

I understand that, but if your recharge speed isn't powered up, charge -> cancel -> nova fills up your charge cooldown with invincibility frames.  

I was actually using a Power Efficiency III when I tried it.  And someone else wrote that the power recharge consumables don't even reduce charge cooldown.  Too many contradictory inputs of data.  Will have to test this.  Sigh.  

Also, the issue with the charge-nova cancel-nova - charge thing, is that you'll end up with less stacks of nova reduction by the end.

I originally suspected that they didn't, but with testing, they do.  By a few fractions of a second, but it's the difference between being able to get one shot off with a phalanx between the nova and charge, and none when you maxed out your novas.

Modifié par Zenning, 19 avril 2012 - 04:19 .

[Broganisity]

Zenning wrote...

Also, let me add though, exact same may not be the correct phrase.  Both don't take any damage at all when working properly.

Your information is very helpful, I'll add your information towards the Nova section in a moment, I appreciate it. As you said though Half-Nova is indisputibly weaker than the normal nova, but in key areas that survivability is vital. With Half-Nova it's generally more adviseable if you put yourself in a support role via diverting the heavy enemies for your team (Atlas and Banshees to be specific: Any skilled Vanguard doesn't have to worry too much about fighting the other "boss" mobs up close).

Your enemy specific information is generally what I had up already, but I'll add the parts which aren't. AGain, thank you.

[samb]

In an ideal situation, your cooldown for charge is the same or less than the animation for nova.
Anyone know the base recharge speed for biotic charge and the amount of time you have invincibility frames? As it stands now even with +200% cooldown bonus and stacked power recharge this isn't happening. What is the amount of time of this difference?

[jaydubs67]

Zenning wrote...

Also, the issue with the charge-nova cancel-nova - charge thing, is that you'll end up with less stacks of nova reduction by the end.

I originally suspected that they didn't, but with testing, they do.  By a few fractions of a second, but it's the difference between being able to get one shot off with a phalanx between the nova and charge, and none when you maxed out your novas.

Huh, I never thought of using weapons fire as a way to test for delays.  Quite resourceful.  

Okay, another question then.  Is there a way to safely maintain nova recharge in between seeing enemies?  If you just constantly nova, you are dumping your barriers.  A single barrage can kill you if you don't have shield gate protection.  With a half-blast build not having to spam nova when not in the presence of enemies, a surprise attack stalls on your barriers and gives you time to charge.  Is there a way to address this, or does one simply have to be more aware to counter the increased vulnerability?  

[Zenning]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Zenning wrote...

Also, the issue with the charge-nova cancel-nova - charge thing, is that you'll end up with less stacks of nova reduction by the end.

I originally suspected that they didn't, but with testing, they do.  By a few fractions of a second, but it's the difference between being able to get one shot off with a phalanx between the nova and charge, and none when you maxed out your novas.

Huh, I never thought of using weapons fire as a way to test for delays.  Quite resourceful.  

Okay, another question then.  Is there a way to safely maintain nova recharge in between seeing enemies?  If you just constantly nova, you are dumping your barriers.  A single barrage can kill you if you don't have shield gate protection.  With a half-blast build not having to spam nova when not in the presence of enemies, a surprise attack stalls on your barriers and gives you time to charge.  Is there a way to address this, or does one simply have to be more aware to counter the increased vulnerability?  

Actually..  After the Nova, you keep just enough to get the shield gate, meaning it still is the safest way to do it.  Without the charge spammin' you'll only get about 2 to 3 stacks max.. So you'll probably still want to get a few charges in before you start going really crazy.

If you're still worried though, you can just pick and choose targets in the frontline or in the flank, before you go for the actual groups.