That's saying the same thing just in reverse.MegaSovereign wrote...
That's a terrible counter argument. The only thing you can possibly argue is that Bioware executed it horribly, hence all the "speculating."
2+2=4
vs.
4 = 2+2
The Ending was Good
Débuté par
lx_theo
, avril 09 2012 03:51
#326
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:00
MaverickPerry
-
- Members
- 73 messages
2+2=4
vs.
4 = 2+2
Retour en haut
#327
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:01
Sohlito
-
- Members
- 624 messages
tobito113 wrote...
Mr Indivisible wrote...
Also, you have no idea what your banner is saying "shepard deserves better fans" because your actually saying bioware. Shepards fans are pretty damn dedicated to be demanding more, new and better, all for shepard.
I couldnt say this the last time so here is my chance...
I believe that the ME franchise/creators deserve fans who wont:
-Attack developers/ call for firings;
-Misquote the devs/ purposedly misread what they say as "insults to the fans" of "slap to the face";
-Bomb metacritic/amazon with ridiculous reviews (trying to sabotage the company);
-Make frivolous FTC/lausuits (again, trying to sabotage Bioware);
-Constantly bash Bioware and laugh at the idea that that they will someday stop working;
-Not respect Bioware's desire to tell THEIR story (you cant "retake" something that was never yours) even if you disagree with many of their ideas;
I dont give a crap if you hate the endings, as long as the anti-ending crowd behaves like this i will proudly use this banner. If you want to spin the banner to support your desire for more content, fine, i dont really care (in fact i WANT more content)...
I think all that should be outlined in the banner, to avoid sweeping generalizations. I'm sure it can fit. lol
#328
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:02
Zany Jedi
-
- Members
- 123 messages
MaverickPerry wrote...
The simple fact that you had to write all of this (and it's all conjecture and zero fact) just to attempt to explain/defend the ending proves just how awful of an ending it was.lx_theo wrote...
You misunderstand, I gave the OP a link that extensively explained why the ending wasn't logical, and the OP responded to everything in the article (which I was pleasantly surprised by).
#329
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:03
nomoredruggs
-
- Members
- 841 messages
clipped_wolf wrote...
(...), but my first issue with the ME3 ending was the betrayal of themes. You and I must have picked up on different themes.It fit the theme tof the game.
Yeah, I also felt there was a betrayal of themes.
Now, granted there were lots of themes in ME, some more prevalent than others.
Regardless, I don't think it's a good end to the trilogy. On the contrary, I find it's a bad one.
The general "ideas" are interesting, but not really fleshed out, and they don't feel relevant to a lot of people.
Ultimately, perhaps they were just badly implemented. As it is, the ending feels disconnected to a lot of people.
That isn't to say that some people won't like it.
#330
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:03
Mr Indivisible
-
- Members
- 286 messages
Tobito, not spinning anything, just pointing out that fans have been very good to Shepard, in fact i dont think you can find much better (unless you classify better as silent).
Bioware on the otherhand... Not so much. But there are trolls everywhere on every side, this is the internet after all.
I dont want bioware to die, i would like it if they returned to their roots in game design philosophy, if they dont, the games they will be making wont interest me. Its more my loss then theirs.
Bioware on the otherhand... Not so much. But there are trolls everywhere on every side, this is the internet after all.
I dont want bioware to die, i would like it if they returned to their roots in game design philosophy, if they dont, the games they will be making wont interest me. Its more my loss then theirs.
#331
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:05
MaverickPerry
-
- Members
- 73 messages
Oh, I understood it. I've read this entire thread. And my point stands.Zany Jedi wrote...
MaverickPerry wrote...
The simple fact that you had to write all of this (and it's all conjecture and zero fact) just to attempt to explain/defend the ending proves just how awful of an ending it was.lx_theo wrote...
You misunderstand, I gave the OP a link that extensively explained why the ending wasn't logical, and the OP responded to everything in the article (which I was pleasantly surprised by).
It's similar to the line of thought of, if you have to explain the punchline of a joke to people for 10 minutes after you say it, it's not a good joke. If after all this time, the only way people can justify the ending is via massive posts of even more speculation and opinion and assumptions, then the ending was horribly executed. Whatever cool or unique spin they were going for, they failed miserably.
#332
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:06
AtlasMickey
-
- Members
- 1 137 messages
Then you're in the wrong place.Zix13 wrote...
BiancoAngelo7 wrote...
OP im tired of these threads, they're all like this:
"Ending was great and I will not explain why because I cant"
honestly these threads are troll threads to me
+1
#333
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:06
MegaSovereign
-
- Members
- 10 794 messages
MaverickPerry wrote...
That's saying the same thing just in reverse.MegaSovereign wrote...
That's a terrible counter argument. The only thing you can possibly argue is that Bioware executed it horribly, hence all the "speculating."
2+2=4
vs.
4 = 2+2
No....
The main argument as to why the ending was bad was because it allegedly had a lot of plot holes. The OP made countered them.
The only real reason as to why you can objectively say the ending was "bad" is because of the fact that it didn't provide much context to your choices.
#334
Guest_OrangeLazarus86_*
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:06
Guest_OrangeLazarus86_*
Guest_OrangeLazarus86_*
-
- Guests
Ending is heavily flawed.
First there's the Star Child. I don't mind this somewhat omnipotent being being introduced towards the end, in fact it takes away some of the mystery behind the Reapers. But what he says is completely false if you made certain choices.
1)He states that the purpose of the Reapers are that they are synthetics designed to harvest/kill organics so that organics won't be killed by synthetics.
It's a completely circular logic, that by having synthetics kill organics they're saving them from synthetics? But by having the Reapers(synthetics) kill organics, this is perfectly fine.
It made me think, well maybe this Star Child's logic over countless millenniums had been corrupted by the Reapers and he says this to believe his original premise of the Reapers to be good.
Nope. Star Child's logic is infallible.
2) Synthetics uprising. I understand in Javik's cycle this occurred, but flash forward 50k years later and we have the Geth & Quarians. Quarians attacked the Geth and the Geth defended themselves. According to Legion, they waited on Rannoch for their masters return and even kept the facilities their running all these years.
Quarians instigate another assault in ME3 and this is where you make or break everything. If you decide to kill Legion or have done so or never bothered with him, then Star Child's logic on synthetics is true.
HOWEVER, if you decided to keep Legion alive and allow him to complete his mission or the VI then the Star Child's logic is ultimate false. But you're not aloud to argue that because the Star Child's logic is infallible. Oops.
3) Options for ending the war.
I don't mind that all 3 cut scenes end the same, but I do mind how the choices played out.
Destroy- This was the option many of us all have been waiting for. To end the Reapers once and for all, but wait there's a catch. You destroy all synthetics, including the Geth. Why? Why does Reaper tech affect all synthetics and synthetic implanted people? Because it's a bad choice.
The entire time you find out your friend and former commander Anderson was the bad guy the entire time, because he wanted to destroy the Reapers and the Illusive Man was the good guy. You're entire mission was you being the bad guy.
I would have preferred the cliche ending where the Reapers are destroyed and that's that. No involving the Geth or other synthetic implanted beings. Maybe EDI since she's based off Reaper tech, but that's really it.
Control- The biggest slap in the face. You spent the entire game fighting the Illusive Man so he can't control the Reapers, only to find out that he was the good guy all along and he had the right idea. Just how is controlling the Reapers a good thing? What's to ensure someone else won't abuse that kind of tech and power?
It was a really tasteless plot twist. It betrays the feelings of the players.
Synthethis- I had the biggest problem with this because this was basically indoctrination on a genetic level. Basically every sentient being whether organic or synthetic become one mind. Isn't that what the Reapers did? Convert organics under them into synthetics? Basically, the Reapers win having indoctrinated an entire galaxy in one big blast. That was my take on it.
4) Mass Relays
There really wasn't a need to destroy the Mass Relays. Ya, sure it looked cool...but for those who played the Arrival it means there goes that Star System, and that one, and DEAR GOD WHEN WILL IT STOP!
The Mass Relays exploding spelled doom for each star system they were located in. Which means Mordin's sacrifice on Tuchanka was pointless, Legion's death null and void, and saving Earth was worthless.. For many of us the Tuchanka mission was the most heart wrenching experience because it was Mordin clearing up his work, making things right and ultimately dying saving a species he helped go almost extinct. To know Tuchanka was blown away and all those living on it, including Eve and her unborn son dead...just really gets to you.
You ultimately failed the mission. You never saved the galaxy like you intended, instead you blew it all up and killed everyone you loved...accept those on the Normandy.
In the epilogue, for those who have the Mass Effect datapad for their iOS devices you learn that the epilogue takes place 10k years and no one has reached space flight at all or even rebuilt the mass relays! Basically sent everyone spiraling back that survived back to the dark ages. At least they call you a hero for that.
5) Normandy Escape.
I'm actually okay with this. I like to think Cortez got the shuttle ready in time to pick up my squadmates and assumed the worst for Shepard before Harbinger tried to get another shot in at them. Flew off to the Normandy and then the **** got real, Joker used the Mass Relay to escape the blast that would kill him and everyone onboard.
I know a lot of people aren't, but I was. I'm also okay with Shepard dying.
My Conclusion
I think the biggest problems with the ending is that you're not allowed to argue the Star Child's logic if you've proven it false by uniting the Geth & Quarians in peace and pointing out his round about logic that it's okay for his synthetics to kill organics because they aren't going to be killed by their own synthetics. And that the Mass Relays explode dooming many parts of the galaxy and ultimately have you failing the mission.
To say it's a good ending is a far cry from what a good ending actually is. Star Wars had a good ending. Halo had a good ending. Mass Effect was just a let down because everything we worked in the end meant nothing. There wasn't any big pay off after 3 games that we had hoped for.
That's why the ending isn't good.
First there's the Star Child. I don't mind this somewhat omnipotent being being introduced towards the end, in fact it takes away some of the mystery behind the Reapers. But what he says is completely false if you made certain choices.
1)He states that the purpose of the Reapers are that they are synthetics designed to harvest/kill organics so that organics won't be killed by synthetics.
It's a completely circular logic, that by having synthetics kill organics they're saving them from synthetics? But by having the Reapers(synthetics) kill organics, this is perfectly fine.
It made me think, well maybe this Star Child's logic over countless millenniums had been corrupted by the Reapers and he says this to believe his original premise of the Reapers to be good.
Nope. Star Child's logic is infallible.
2) Synthetics uprising. I understand in Javik's cycle this occurred, but flash forward 50k years later and we have the Geth & Quarians. Quarians attacked the Geth and the Geth defended themselves. According to Legion, they waited on Rannoch for their masters return and even kept the facilities their running all these years.
Quarians instigate another assault in ME3 and this is where you make or break everything. If you decide to kill Legion or have done so or never bothered with him, then Star Child's logic on synthetics is true.
HOWEVER, if you decided to keep Legion alive and allow him to complete his mission or the VI then the Star Child's logic is ultimate false. But you're not aloud to argue that because the Star Child's logic is infallible. Oops.
3) Options for ending the war.
I don't mind that all 3 cut scenes end the same, but I do mind how the choices played out.
Destroy- This was the option many of us all have been waiting for. To end the Reapers once and for all, but wait there's a catch. You destroy all synthetics, including the Geth. Why? Why does Reaper tech affect all synthetics and synthetic implanted people? Because it's a bad choice.
The entire time you find out your friend and former commander Anderson was the bad guy the entire time, because he wanted to destroy the Reapers and the Illusive Man was the good guy. You're entire mission was you being the bad guy.
I would have preferred the cliche ending where the Reapers are destroyed and that's that. No involving the Geth or other synthetic implanted beings. Maybe EDI since she's based off Reaper tech, but that's really it.
Control- The biggest slap in the face. You spent the entire game fighting the Illusive Man so he can't control the Reapers, only to find out that he was the good guy all along and he had the right idea. Just how is controlling the Reapers a good thing? What's to ensure someone else won't abuse that kind of tech and power?
It was a really tasteless plot twist. It betrays the feelings of the players.
Synthethis- I had the biggest problem with this because this was basically indoctrination on a genetic level. Basically every sentient being whether organic or synthetic become one mind. Isn't that what the Reapers did? Convert organics under them into synthetics? Basically, the Reapers win having indoctrinated an entire galaxy in one big blast. That was my take on it.
4) Mass Relays
There really wasn't a need to destroy the Mass Relays. Ya, sure it looked cool...but for those who played the Arrival it means there goes that Star System, and that one, and DEAR GOD WHEN WILL IT STOP!
The Mass Relays exploding spelled doom for each star system they were located in. Which means Mordin's sacrifice on Tuchanka was pointless, Legion's death null and void, and saving Earth was worthless.. For many of us the Tuchanka mission was the most heart wrenching experience because it was Mordin clearing up his work, making things right and ultimately dying saving a species he helped go almost extinct. To know Tuchanka was blown away and all those living on it, including Eve and her unborn son dead...just really gets to you.
You ultimately failed the mission. You never saved the galaxy like you intended, instead you blew it all up and killed everyone you loved...accept those on the Normandy.
In the epilogue, for those who have the Mass Effect datapad for their iOS devices you learn that the epilogue takes place 10k years and no one has reached space flight at all or even rebuilt the mass relays! Basically sent everyone spiraling back that survived back to the dark ages. At least they call you a hero for that.
5) Normandy Escape.
I'm actually okay with this. I like to think Cortez got the shuttle ready in time to pick up my squadmates and assumed the worst for Shepard before Harbinger tried to get another shot in at them. Flew off to the Normandy and then the **** got real, Joker used the Mass Relay to escape the blast that would kill him and everyone onboard.
I know a lot of people aren't, but I was. I'm also okay with Shepard dying.
My Conclusion
I think the biggest problems with the ending is that you're not allowed to argue the Star Child's logic if you've proven it false by uniting the Geth & Quarians in peace and pointing out his round about logic that it's okay for his synthetics to kill organics because they aren't going to be killed by their own synthetics. And that the Mass Relays explode dooming many parts of the galaxy and ultimately have you failing the mission.
To say it's a good ending is a far cry from what a good ending actually is. Star Wars had a good ending. Halo had a good ending. Mass Effect was just a let down because everything we worked in the end meant nothing. There wasn't any big pay off after 3 games that we had hoped for.
That's why the ending isn't good.
#335
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:08
ShepnTali
-
- Members
- 4 535 messages
It's fair to like it, but it's not good. You can like the movie 'Troll 2', and dislike 'The Godfather'. That's ok. But nobody in their right mind would say 'Troll 2' is a good movie, 'The Godfather' is a bad movie. Liking is fine, but saying something is good is fair game to reject.
#336
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:08
AIR MOORE
-
- Members
- 163 messages
Every time I read one of these threads... I think to myself:
"Maybe when I click on it just this one time, THIS PERSON will have legitimate reasons for liking it and be able to explain the plot-holes that they claim to have solved in ME3 ending."
THEN...
Reality.
"Maybe when I click on it just this one time, THIS PERSON will have legitimate reasons for liking it and be able to explain the plot-holes that they claim to have solved in ME3 ending."
THEN...
Reality.
Modifié par AIR MOORE, 10 avril 2012 - 12:09 .
#337
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:08
viperabyss
-
- Members
- 422 messages
Vaktathi wrote...
That the ending is just so cerebral that only a small proportion of the millions strong player base "gets" it and the rest are just too stupid though they "got" pretty much all of what happened up until the last 5 minutes of the last game, or that they just didn't write a good ending?
And actually I'd argue on the contrary, those people who likes the ending actually does NOT "get" it. They don't get it that the story of Mass Effect was never about organics vs. synthetics. The elements of the argument were never part of the main backbone story.
What was the main story for ME? It was about stopping the Reapers. It was not about organics vs. synthetics, period.
What was the main story for ME2? It was about stopping the Reapers' lackies, the Collectors. It was not about organics vs. synthetics, period.
What was the main story for ME3? It was about stopping the Reapers. It was not about organics vs. synthetics, period.
Were the elements of organics vs. synthetics there? Sure, but so was the issue of interracial / interspecies relationship, or classism (Ward vs. Presidium), or racism, or optimism vs pessimism, or denial while faced with overwhelming evidence, or walking into the restroom of the wrong gender, or space hamster, or Azure. But were they ever a part of the main story? No.
So people who disliked the ending actually "get" it, because they understand this is not the story they paid good money for.
Modifié par viperabyss, 10 avril 2012 - 12:09 .
#338
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:09
MaverickPerry
-
- Members
- 73 messages
tobito113 wrote...
I couldnt say this the last time so here is my chance...
I believe that the ME franchise/creators deserve fans who wont:
-Attack developers/ call for firings;
-Misquote the devs/ purposedly misread what they say as "insults to the fans" of "slap to the face";
-Bomb metacritic/amazon with ridiculous reviews (trying to sabotage the company);
-Make frivolous FTC/lausuits (again, trying to sabotage Bioware);
-Constantly bash Bioware and laugh at the idea that that they will someday stop working;
-Not respect Bioware's desire to tell THEIR story (you cant "retake" something that was never yours) even if you disagree with many of their ideas;
I dont give a crap if you hate the endings, as long as the anti-ending crowd behaves like this i will proudly use this banner. If you want to spin the banner to support your desire for more content, fine, i dont really care (in fact i WANT more content
You're generalizing. Immensely. You're taking the exaggerated and extreme minortiy and painting across everyone who doesn't like the ending. 99% of us are very logical, very calm, and very, very intelligent. All the exampled you bulleted are hypocritical, considering you're acting the exact same way, just on the other side of the line. In fact, it could be said that fans like you, who blindly accept anything without a critical eye or passion to want a better product, are the worst fans of all. A lemming of lemmings. At least anger means you care. Apathy is worse.
#339
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:09
Mr Indivisible
-
- Members
- 286 messages
MegaSovereign wrote...
No....
The main argument as to why the ending was bad was because it allegedly had a lot of plot holes. The OP made countered them.
The only real reason as to why you can objectively say the ending was "bad" is because of the fact that it didn't provide much context to your choices.
The ending is bad because speculation is not how one should conclude a trilogy.
#340
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:09
MegaSovereign
-
- Members
- 10 794 messages
nomoredruggs wrote...
clipped_wolf wrote...
(...), but my first issue with the ME3 ending was the betrayal of themes. You and I must have picked up on different themes.It fit the theme tof the game.
Yeah, I also felt there was a betrayal of themes.
Now, granted there were lots of themes in ME, some more prevalent than others.
Regardless, I don't think it's a good end to the trilogy. On the contrary, I find it's a bad one.
The general "ideas" are interesting, but not really fleshed out, and they don't feel relevant to a lot of people.
Ultimately, perhaps they were just badly implemented. As it is, the ending feels disconnected to a lot of people.
That isn't to say that some people won't like it.
The themes "entropy" and "sacrifice for the greater good" has always been an major part of the Mass Effect trilogy. These themes were straight up reflected in the ending.
#341
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:11
MegaSovereign
-
- Members
- 10 794 messages
Mr Indivisible wrote...
MegaSovereign wrote...
No....
The main argument as to why the ending was bad was because it allegedly had a lot of plot holes. The OP made countered them.
The only real reason as to why you can objectively say the ending was "bad" is because of the fact that it didn't provide much context to your choices.
The ending is bad because speculation is not how one should conclude a trilogy.
I agree...
I'm just saying the ending wasn't bad because of plot holes, just the lack of clarity and closure.
And it's been announced for days now that they are addressing exactly that in the Extended Cut.
#342
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:12
Zany Jedi
-
- Members
- 123 messages
MaverickPerry wrote...
Oh, I understood it. I've read this entire thread. And my point stands.Zany Jedi wrote...
MaverickPerry wrote...
The simple fact that you had to write all of this (and it's all conjecture and zero fact) just to attempt to explain/defend the ending proves just how awful of an ending it was.lx_theo wrote...
You misunderstand, I gave the OP a link that extensively explained why the ending wasn't logical, and the OP responded to everything in the article (which I was pleasantly surprised by).
It's similar to the line of thought of, if you have to explain the punchline of a joke to people for 10 minutes after you say it, it's not a good joke. If after all this time, the only way people can justify the ending is via massive posts of even more speculation and opinion and assumptions, then the ending was horribly executed. Whatever cool or unique spin they were going for, they failed miserably.
I see, my bad.
Also, you're a champ for reading this entire thread, could barely do it myself.
#343
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:12
AIR MOORE
-
- Members
- 163 messages
tobito113 wrote...
Mr Indivisible wrote...
Also, you have no idea what your banner is saying "shepard deserves better fans" because your actually saying bioware. Shepards fans are pretty damn dedicated to be demanding more, new and better, all for shepard.
I couldnt say this the last time so here is my chance...
I believe that the ME franchise/creators deserve fans who wont:
-Attack developers/ call for firings;
-Misquote the devs/ purposedly misread what they say as "insults to the fans" of "slap to the face";
-Bomb metacritic/amazon with ridiculous reviews (trying to sabotage the company);
-Make frivolous FTC/lausuits (again, trying to sabotage Bioware);
-Constantly bash Bioware and laugh at the idea that that they will someday stop working;
-Not respect Bioware's desire to tell THEIR story (you cant "retake" something that was never yours) even if you disagree with many of their ideas;
I dont give a crap if you hate the endings, as long as the anti-ending crowd behaves like this i will proudly use this banner. If you want to spin the banner to support your desire for more content, fine, i dont really care (in fact i WANT more content
Cool story bro.
I believe all the people who spent $60-$80 on this game deserve a coherent ending that meshes well with the rest of their journey that they spent an extra (few) hundred on... as well as reflecting statements made by BioWare and its agents.
#344
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:12
Annora
-
- Members
- 565 messages
OrangeLazarus86 wrote...
4) Mass Relays
There really wasn't a need to destroy the Mass Relays. Ya, sure it looked cool...but for those who played the Arrival it means there goes that Star System, and that one, and DEAR GOD WHEN WILL IT STOP!
The Mass Relays exploding spelled doom for each star system they were located in. Which means Mordin's sacrifice on Tuchanka was pointless, Legion's death null and void, and saving Earth was worthless.. For many of us the Tuchanka mission was the most heart wrenching experience because it was Mordin clearing up his work, making things right and ultimately dying saving a species he helped go almost extinct. To know Tuchanka was blown away and all those living on it, including Eve and her unborn son dead...just really gets to you.
You ultimately failed the mission. You never saved the galaxy like you intended, instead you blew it all up and killed everyone you loved...accept those on the Normandy.
This is incorrect. I did play Arrival, and what I remember being established was that plowing an asteroid into a Mass Relay to destroy it wipes out the star system. But it's already been said by more than one BioWare employee that the Mass Relays don't explode the way you all assume they do, and that your interpretation of it was something they didn't anticipate because it's incorrect.
#345
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:12
MaverickPerry
-
- Members
- 73 messages
Let's try this analogy:MegaSovereign wrote...
No....
The main argument as to why the ending was bad was because it allegedly had a lot of plot holes. The OP made countered them.
The only real reason as to why you can objectively say the ending was "bad" is because of the fact that it didn't provide much context to your choices.
I'm saying the food is unhealthy because the kid who's eating it is getting fat.
You're saying the food is unhealthy because of the poor nutrition of said food.
We're saying the same thing. I'm simply pointing out the symptom as well. This isn't difficult to grasp.
#346
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:14
MegaSovereign
-
- Members
- 10 794 messages
MaverickPerry wrote...
Let's try this analogy:MegaSovereign wrote...
No....
The main argument as to why the ending was bad was because it allegedly had a lot of plot holes. The OP made countered them.
The only real reason as to why you can objectively say the ending was "bad" is because of the fact that it didn't provide much context to your choices.
I'm saying the food is unhealthy because the kid who's eating it is getting fat.
You're saying the food is unhealthy because of the poor nutrition of said food.
We're saying the same thing. I'm simply pointing out the symptom as well. This isn't difficult to grasp.
It's important to agree on WHY it was bad.
Some people are saying the Extended Cut won't do the job because it isn't addressing the reasons they had in mind.
#348
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:16
viperabyss
-
- Members
- 422 messages
MegaSovereign wrote...
The themes "entropy" and "sacrifice for the greater good" has always been an major part of the Mass Effect trilogy. These themes were straight up reflected in the ending.
But so was "not accepting anyone's logic but your own". Think about it, when was the last time you had to accept someone else's logic at face value, without the option to argue against him/her? You certainly can argue against Saren, or Ashley / Kaidan, or Garrus, or the Council, or just about everyone. You can even argue against the Illusive Man's conjecture of "Collector is kidnapping every human colony", until he sends you to Freedom's Progress to see for yourself. He even said that he would be disappointed if you could be convinced easily.
So why weren't we allowed to argue with the Catalyst? With an idea as abstract as the Catalyst's, we should even be given more option to explore his reasoning. But instead, we got nothing but 14 lines of "you're doing it my way".
And to be quite honest, no one really cares if Shepard is sacrificed. A lot of people have gone into the game knowing Shepard is going to die. Do they like it? No, but they do accept it. But when Shepard was sacrificed in the most meaningless way, against a broken logic that cannot be argued, that was not the ending fans are looking for. They're looking for a perfect period, not a corpse in some dumpster in some dark alley.
#349
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:16
wintermaul55
-
- Members
- 124 messages
So in other words .... i payed 10 dollars for arrive when it added no value to the story.... great...Anastassia wrote...
OrangeLazarus86 wrote...
4) Mass Relays
There really wasn't a need to destroy the Mass Relays. Ya, sure it looked cool...but for those who played the Arrival it means there goes that Star System, and that one, and DEAR GOD WHEN WILL IT STOP!
The Mass Relays exploding spelled doom for each star system they were located in. Which means Mordin's sacrifice on Tuchanka was pointless, Legion's death null and void, and saving Earth was worthless.. For many of us the Tuchanka mission was the most heart wrenching experience because it was Mordin clearing up his work, making things right and ultimately dying saving a species he helped go almost extinct. To know Tuchanka was blown away and all those living on it, including Eve and her unborn son dead...just really gets to you.
You ultimately failed the mission. You never saved the galaxy like you intended, instead you blew it all up and killed everyone you loved...accept those on the Normandy.
This is incorrect. I did play Arrival, and what I remember being established was that plowing an asteroid into a Mass Relay to destroy it wipes out the star system. But it's already been said by more than one BioWare employee that the Mass Relays don't explode the way you all assume they do, and that your interpretation of it was something they didn't anticipate because it's incorrect.
#350
Posté 10 avril 2012 - 12:18
SealKudos
-
- Members
- 269 messages
Without reading fourteen pages of rage and argument, I'll simply add my thought toward the dilemma:
I understand what BioWare was going for and enjoyed it for what it was. It was a nice ending. The only problem is it was, by no means, a suitable Mass Effect ending. Mass Effect 3 as a whole incorporated a great amount of player choice - but none of it mattered toward the end. Stacking up choices simply as numbers (EMS) to trigger tiny variants on otherwise completely similar ending"s" goes against everything we want out of Mass Effect.
Player choice should be visible, tangible. I don't want to read numbers and watch the same cutscene. You could argue that each ending has vastly different implications as to what the galaxy is like after, but we don't see that. It's left to "speculation", which is a terrible way to end a trilogy in which our choices are advertised to matter.
I understand what BioWare was going for and enjoyed it for what it was. It was a nice ending. The only problem is it was, by no means, a suitable Mass Effect ending. Mass Effect 3 as a whole incorporated a great amount of player choice - but none of it mattered toward the end. Stacking up choices simply as numbers (EMS) to trigger tiny variants on otherwise completely similar ending"s" goes against everything we want out of Mass Effect.
Player choice should be visible, tangible. I don't want to read numbers and watch the same cutscene. You could argue that each ending has vastly different implications as to what the galaxy is like after, but we don't see that. It's left to "speculation", which is a terrible way to end a trilogy in which our choices are advertised to matter.
