73 réponses à ce sujet

[Mersey]

Bioware FTW, Lucas is for 8-10 year olds nowadays...

[FRancium]

Hmmm got a lot of comparison between Starwars and ME. I was more talking about the approach Bioware and Lucas took.

Lucas seems to go out of his way to make the star wars he envisioned, if in his mind Han didn't shoot first, he just had to come out and tell everybody. Bioware has been lurking away from the lights, letting everybody speculate, and not say much at all.

As much as I see Bioware's way as a frustrating cop-out, it is possible that their extended explanation may be even worse than what we have now (hey, they already came up with starkid, )anything is possible).

[AnuzaGray]

ME is more like Babylon 5 than it is like Star Wars.

[Tyrzun]

AnuzaGray wrote...

Ewoks, Midi-Chlorians, child Anakin, Darth Dooku, Han shot second are much worse than Starchild

Then you clearly don't understand Star Child.

Star Child existance makes ME 1 and ME 2 none existent.

Short version

Star Child controls the Reapers, they are puppets.  Star Child didn't need Sovereign to open the Citadel portal in ME 1.  He totally made everything that happened in ME 1 BS and ME 2.  He was always there on the Citadel running the show, so that means NONE of that would have had a need to happen.  He would have opened the portal and brought his Reapers in... the end. 

George Lucas never did anything in any movie to say the other movies didn't exist were not what was really going on and have no purpose.  Bioware did.  As a matter of fact Bioware said 99% of the games had no need to happen, so they logically wouldn't have happened when you meet Star Child.

Modifié par Tyrzun, 09 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[Senario]

George Lucas at the moment. But I am biased against Bioware because of their handling of the situation. I won't lie, Lucas changed a lot in Star wars, but at least he did so without ruining the narrative TOO MUCH (though Han did shoot first). And he seemingly listened to fans. Mediclorines or whatever weren't mentioned past Episode I, and Jar Jar was almost non existent in the following movies.

I think his main point of forgiveness is that he started a new Star Wars Trilogy but made the mistakes in the first movie rather than the last. His various retcons are annoying but I've learned to live with them as they do not interfere with the narrative all that much.

[Captiosus77]

Even though I'm a bit dismayed with some of the hubris exhibited by BioWare lately over DA2, TOR and now ME3, I'd still have to go with BioWare.

Lucas is a case study on what happens when someone lets their ego take control. Years and years ago I read a piece regarding Lawrence Kasdan (screenplay writer for TESB, and part of ROTJ) and Lucas. According to the piece, which I'm sure is still out on the 'net somewhere, Kasdan was a grounding force for Lucas. During the writing and creation of The Empire Strikes Back, Lucas kept wanting to change the series. Kasdan and Kershner (the Director), would politely listen and then explain to Lucas why the ideas weren't sound based on the trilogy concept. When it came to Return of the Jedi, Lucas became nearly impossible to control. The original writing of ROTJ was supposed to be a tragic victory, with the death of Han Solo during the Endor sequence, completing his transformation from self-obsessed smuggler to self-sacrificing hero. Likewise, the Ewoks were nowhere to be found. Lucas wanted Ewoks for the kids and didn't want any primary protagonists to die. Arguments came to a head and Kasdan bowed out. Lucas took over. Solo lived and we got Ewoks.

We see the exact same problems with the prequel trilogy. Lucas had no one to tell him no. No one to temper him down. He did whatever he wanted, original stories be damned. We went from a mythos where this moisture farming nobody transformed into the galaxy's most important Jedi to measuring midi-chlorian counts. We went from some of the best model building in the industry for special effects to shoddy, overused CGI. Most egregiously, we saw elements from the prequels get tacked into re-re-releases of the original trilogy, with poor David Prowse (the guy inside the Vader suit) getting retconned out of one of his most important appearances (as the reformed Jedi spirit) being replaced with Hayden Christensen looking like an angry, out of place, kid.

How many times has he re-released the original trilogy with tweaks? Tweaks he probably originally had during original production but someone (wisely) told him "no". Lucas took a universe and crapped on it for the sake of his own ego. And then did it again with the screenplay for Indiana Jones 4.

Modifié par Captiosus77, 09 avril 2012 - 08:30 .

[AnuzaGray]

Tyrzun wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

Ewoks, Midi-Chlorians, child Anakin, Darth Dooku, Han shot second are much worse than Starchild

Then you clearly don't understand Star Child.

Star Child existance makes ME 1 and ME 2 none existent.

Short version

Star Child controls the Reapers, they are puppets.  Star Child didn't need Sovereign to open the Citadel portal in ME 1.  He totally made everything that happened in ME 1 BS and ME 2.  He was always there on the Citadel running the show, so that means NONE of that would have had a need to happen.  He would have opened the portal and brought his Reapers in... the end. 

George Lucas never did anything in any movie to say the other movies didn't exist were not what was really going on and have no purpose.  Bioware did.  As a matter of fact Bioware said 99% of the games had no need to happen, so they logically wouldn't have happened when you meet Star Child.

Big deal the last ten minutes of the last game suck.  If you let that invalidate the rest of the series for you, you're being a freaking baby.  Grow up.

Lucas constantly fethed up major parts of his series than went back and ****ed up scenes by editing the hell out of them.

[wesr]

I'd hate to say it but George Lucas at this point. At least he gives us finish products even if he goes back and screws them up later on.

[Annora]

BioWare. I'm not a big fan of Lucas' timeline. I like his universe as a whole, but I didn't find any of the characters particularly interesting or relatable in his movies. He also somehow managed to take Oscar-worthy actors and turn them into wooden cliche automatons on screen. BioWare's take on Star Wars? Loved it from the get-go.

And if we go with LucasArts vs BioWare, I'm still going to have to side with BioWare. TFU2 was one of the worst, and horrifically short, games I've ever played.

Modifié par Anastassia, 09 avril 2012 - 02:56 .

[Kia Purity]

I'd go with Lucas because he never promised that you were helping write the story of your main character.

Bioware has a giant egg on its face from /that/ promise.

[XRelakX]

Is funny that you mention George Lucas instead of LucasArts which is the company rofl.

It should be Bioware or LucasArts.

[ObserverStatus]

Taleroth wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

Ewoks, Midi-Chlorians, child Anakin, Darth Dooku, Han shot second are much worse than Starchild

Hey, Ewoks and Dooku aren't that bad.

Everything that Christopher Lee is involved in is awesome ever.

[Arppis]

I like them both just fine.

[MaximizedAction]

Let's just say if I saw a movie coming out with Lucas' name on it, I still might consider watching it.

Nah just kidding, wouldn't watch a new Lucas movie anymore, either.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 09 avril 2012 - 03:04 .

[SoloShepard]

Having a conversation about which of the people who provided us with hours of entertainment we hate the least..

classy

[GreyLycanTrope]

Our rage comes form the fact that we expect better from Bioware then what we received, because they are capable of it. Lucas has his talents and flaws but when comparing writing Bioware still wins.

[Laurencio]

Lucas created a universe that was bigger than him, as did Bioware. There are ver few differences, as both encountered situations where their universe was "occupied" by fans. The difference being that no one demanded that George Lucas go rewrite his films.

Senario wrote...

George Lucas at the moment. But I am biased against Bioware because of their handling of the situation. I won't lie, Lucas changed a lot in Star wars, but at least he did so without ruining the narrative TOO MUCH (though Han did shoot first). And he seemingly listened to fans. Mediclorines or whatever weren't mentioned past Episode I, and Jar Jar was almost non existent in the following movies.

I think his main point of forgiveness is that he started a new Star Wars Trilogy but made the mistakes in the first movie rather than the last. His various retcons are annoying but I've learned to live with them as they do not interfere with the narrative all that much.

George Lucas consistently says "It's my universe and I'l do what I want with it" when fans start complaining. If he says Han shot first, then apparently that doesn't fit the character that he himself created. If he says Star Wars is like "this" rather than "that" then he doesn't understand the universe. It's all Lucas' creation, and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to torch it by having the force die, he can actually do that.

Modifié par Laurencio, 09 avril 2012 - 03:21 .

[MaximizedAction]

I don't take this thread serious and neither should anyone else.

In the end it's up to the customer to either move on or stay.

[AtlasMickey]

Obviously BioWare. One hundred million times BioWare.

[Arisugawa]

Say what you will about George Lucas. He never wrote this scene:

The Emperor continues to use Force Lightning on Luke, who continues to violently spasm in agony. Eventually his eyes flutter and finally close.

Slow dissolve. We are now on the surface of the Death Star. The fantastic space battle between the Rebel fleet and the Imperial Star Destroyers is visible in the background. Luke is face down, groggily looking at his new surroundings, uncertain of where he is.

The ghostly apparition of a small boy, which we recognize as a very young Anakin from Episode I, walks up to Luke from seemingly nowhere.

Anakin: Wake up.

Luke: What...?

Anakin: I said wake up!

Luke struggles to his feet. His body struggles to cooperate, having been ravaged by the Emperor's savage attacks.

Luke: Who...who are you?

Anakin: I am the Force.

Luke: The Force?

Anakin nods.

Luke: I thought the Force is all around us. I thought the Jedi could control the Force.

Anakin shakes his head.

Anakin: Remember what Obi-Wan taught you.

We flashback briefly to Episode IV.

Obi-Wan Kenobi (in flashback): Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.

Luke (in flashback): You mean it controls your actions?

Obi-Wan Kenobi (in flashback): Partially.

We return to the present. Luke appears thoughtful, then turns his head back to Anakin.

Luke: Then...you've been controlling me.

Anakin: Yes.

Luke: Guiding me to this moment.

Anakin: Yes.

Luke: I need to stop the Emperor. Do you know how I can do that?

Anakin: Maybe. I control the Emperor, after all.

Anakin turns, and begins walking along the Death Star surface towards the titanic space battle in the distance. Luke struggles to follow him.

Luke: You...control the Emperor?

Anakin: Of course. I can control anyone who uses the Force.

Luke: But why would you allow the Emperor to do this?

Anakin: Because Palpatine is my solution.

Luke: Your solution? Your solution to what?

Anakin: My solution to the Chaos.

Luke: What Chaos? Isn't this war Chaos?

Anakin: Yes. We worked through Palpatine to bring Order. The Chaos of so many Jedi, so many individual points of view, led to countless conflicts. Palpatine was to bring an end to that Chaos. A singular viewpoint, a unified vision. An end to the Chaos.

Luke: But...I thought you could control whomever uses the Force...why would you neeed to-

Anakin (interrupting): It is not a thing you can comprehend. Regardless, the fact that you are here, rejecting what Palpatine calls the Dark Side, proves that my solution will no longer work. A new solution is needed.

Luke: What new solution?

Anakin: I will not decide that, That is for you to decide. I know you've had thoughts of destroying us.

We see Obi-Wan Kenobi defeating Darth Vader on Mustafar in Episode III.

Anakin: You could eliminate the Dark Side. Make it so that no one remembers how to use my power in such a way.

Luke: But the Emperor would be stopped...the war would end?

Anakin: But that is only a temporary solution. Eventually, someone would  rediscover the powers of the Sith. Even you have been tempted by the Dark Side.

Luke: Maybe...

Anakin: You could also embrace the Dark Side, give in to the temptation that you have felt in the struggle to get here.

We see Luke angrily hammering away at Vader's lightsaber before slicing off Vader's hand mere moments ago.

Anakin: You would have the power to stop the Emperor, to take his place in the solution.

Luke: But the war would end? 

Anakin nods.

Anakin: Yes. But you would lose who you currently are, become someone else. But you would control me, and those others who can use me. There would be no more Chaos.

Luke: There would be peace?

Anakin: Yes.

Luke: I...I don't know...

Anakin: There is a third solution.

Luke: What is that?

Anakin: Synthesis. You could add your essence to mine. Eliminate the division between the Light and Dark sides. Everyone could touch the Force. There would be no Jedi. No Sith. The strengths of each, the weaknesses of each...both would be gone. But it would be in balance, and Chaos would be eliminated.

Luke: I....

Anakin: You have a difficult decision to make.

Modifié par Arisugawa, 09 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Kia Purity]

XRelakX wrote...

Is funny that you mention George Lucas instead of LucasArts which is the company rofl.

It should be Bioware or LucasArts.

Except LucasArts is the gaming division (and there's been a lot of fun issues with Monkey Island and Sam&Max IPs!) The OP specifically meant George Lucas himself.

[Melra]

BioWare.

[Mathias]

Bioware has been ruining their franchise for less than a year.

George Lucas has been ruining his franchise for 15 years.