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The TRUTH behind the endings - blame Casey Hudson


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#76
McAllyster

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Torrible wrote...

SteelRayne_swe wrote...

Shaoken wrote...


Fifth, this is hardly a PR disaster; EA (the publisher) looks to all the "professional" reviews on the game, which paints it as a perfect 10 (because they don't have the emotional attachment we do, hence they're not as concerned as we are about it). Bioware is the one that actually listens to the fans (and they do listen, as we've had developers post in these forums when the jerks in the retake movement aren't breathing down their necks, picking apart everything they say and trying to quote them out of context as "proof" Bioware looks down on it's fanbase).


That is probably why forbes ranked EA lowest in the USA ever. Not a PR disaster. Don't tell people to fact-check when you're clueless yourself.



You are deluded if you think that has mostly to do with ME3's ending.


ME3 ending is a PR disaster.

I wrote a post from marketing point of view - alienating a huge, loyal fanbase has longterm repercussions:

http://social.biowar...ndex/11141940/1 

#77
nitefyre410

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Shaoken wrote...

*snip* 
*snip* .

 

LOL  lawyers don't fired for losing a case..  Lawyers get fired in the middle of case if they are not handling the case right. 

LOL - Film directors don't fired for film flops...  and you have the audicity to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.    

#78
CrazyRah

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Casey deserves a second chance, i might not like that ME3 ended up like it did under his watch but i got enough respect for him to give him a chance to fix this damn mess before i want to see a change of who's in charge.

#79
Shaoken

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andomguy666uk wrote...

BrookerT wrote...

andomguy666uk wrote...

Silveralen wrote...
Second, what do you mean he offended Christians? I'm confused. Of course that isn't exactly hard, but still what are u talking about?


**** i got the wrong guy on that one - teaches me to look at twitter in the early hours of the morning. It was sent by Chris Priestly. I'll amend the opening post, but here's what was said:

BioEvilChris wrote...
What do you mean "at the end he died on a cross"? That makes no sense! And what of his companions? #newtestamentrage* #retakeeaster


and his "appology"

BioEvilChris wrote...
To all offended by my previous post, I apologize. Instead I wish everyone a Happy Zombie Messiah Day instead. #howdidigetinthishandbasket


now, if you or I said this, I'm pretty damn sure we'd be fired for it.


He desevrse to be fired, for something he said on his private Twitter account, a twitter account not tied to EA or Bioware, his Own opinion? Suuuure


Like i said, I'm pretty sure we'd have been fired for it if it had been in many other companies, regardless of it being on a private or company owned account. Bosses look closely at what their staff say online, because in a world where most people post everything online for the world to see, it's easy for one guys comments to spread like wild-fire and cause a PR ****storm


You're forgetting; Bioware is Canadan. Canadians aren't as worked up over religion and don't get insulted over what is clearly a joke. Because like I said; Jesus Christ is a zombie; a reverse-zombie in fact. It's a joke. It's funny. Nobody honestly gives a damn about it except you and probably the fundementalists who get pissed off about everything not being Christian.

#80
Torrible

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McAllyster wrote...

Torrible wrote...

SteelRayne_swe wrote...

Shaoken wrote...


Fifth, this is hardly a PR disaster; EA (the publisher) looks to all the "professional" reviews on the game, which paints it as a perfect 10 (because they don't have the emotional attachment we do, hence they're not as concerned as we are about it). Bioware is the one that actually listens to the fans (and they do listen, as we've had developers post in these forums when the jerks in the retake movement aren't breathing down their necks, picking apart everything they say and trying to quote them out of context as "proof" Bioware looks down on it's fanbase).


That is probably why forbes ranked EA lowest in the USA ever. Not a PR disaster. Don't tell people to fact-check when you're clueless yourself.



You are deluded if you think that has mostly to do with ME3's ending.


ME3 ending is a PR disaster.

I wrote a post from marketing point of view - alienating a huge, loyal fanbase has longterm repercussions:

http://social.biowar...ndex/11141940/1 


I was specifically challenging SteelRayne_swe's claim that EA's ranking is mostly due to the ME3 ending debacle. As for your post, I disagree, but that's another debate altogether.

#81
Lonsecia

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I don't for a moment believe that only Casey could have made the games, as the writing is probably the strongest point anyway (the part that requires the least directing, and a part that he gets no credit for).
The pacing in all three games has always been a little iffy, though tolerable. Well, until the end of ME3. The rumours tell us that Mac Waltersr and Casey did this on their own, and going by the drop in quality, I'd say this was entirely possible.

If Casey was a sports manager and his team had done something so badly in the last ten minutes that they went from a strong victory to an all-out defeat, we'd question tactics, but for the most part blame it on a lack of focus from the players. The issue here is that in the case of the last ten minutes of ME, we're hearing that the players had no input. They weren't out there on the field finishing off their strong game. Instead, they were all brought onto the bench for a breather with just the manager and one player out on the pitch, and the end result is painful. It doesn't matter how good they are, a two-man team is not going to work.
Any game that requires a team, be it sports or electronic, only works well when you remember that you're all in it together. If you take most of the people out of the loop, only bad things will happen.

I'm not saying Casey or Mac Walters should take the blame, as such, but rather 'take one for the team'. Even if they aren't responsible for the mess, someone high up should stand up and say 'yes, this was my fault'.
The simple fact is that the ending for a lot of people was ruinous, nonsensical, both, or just underwhelming. Of course there are people who like it, and that's fine, too. But it doesn't make much sense to shout about the people who loved it when there're enough people saying that they don't agree.
The Extended Cut DLC would have been the perfect announcement to use as an acceptance that people didn't like the ending, but instead of addressing people with concerns, they instead made an announcement that implies that the ending needed to be made simpler for a majority of players.
It doesn't matter how you coat those words: Implying people didn't get your ending, and need clarification is just as bad as flat-out stating they're too dumb to understand.

Anyway: No, I don't think Casey should be sacked, but I do think that whoever is responsible for the ending should come forward and acknowledge it. I don't even know that I particularly want an apology, as it'll either feel hollow or forced. I would like to see them prove they were and are listening, however.

If they are monitoring threads right now: Fix tali's face!

#82
Silpheed58

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The folks at Bioware are human, humans make mistakes and occasionally slip up. They say they are trying to make things right give 'em the chance to before burning effigies of the poor folks.

#83
Shaoken

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nitefyre410 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

*snip* 
*snip* .

 

LOL  lawyers don't fired for losing a case..  Lawyers get fired in the middle of case if they are not handling the case right. 

LOL - Film directors don't fired for film flops...  and you have the audicity to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.    


Point still stands; if a lawyer wins several big cases, and then fumbles his last one n the last 1% of it he won't get fired, since he did 99% of the job right and the 1% was out of his hands.

Point still stands; M. Night Shamelon. The idiots who do all those horrible parody movies. I could go on and on and on about director's who have made flops and still had career's afterwards. The point still stands if you were incredibly sucessful in the past, made only one mistake, and you're still incredibly talented and can deliever in the future, you're not getting fired.

And it's a moot point; ME3 made a metric ****ton of money. At the end of the day, that's all EA is going to care about. Casey directed a sucess. Period. Nobody has gotten fired for making a lot of money, and again if the extended cut delievers as promised the retake movement is dead and buried, with the only ones left in it being the same people who complain about everything but at the end of the day will fold and buy the next release; just like the L4D2 boycott saw 3/4's of it's userbase playing the game on the day of it's release, we'll see the same here if the EC is a sucess. Mark. My. Words.

#84
Aetika

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I have to say, I don´t even care who namely is responsible for ending. It doesn´t matter. What does matter to me is, if extended cut will manage to fix my feelings over the ending and make me replay the game without desire to shoot myself after the credits.

#85
Jjacobclark

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BrookerT wrote...

marrak wrote...

I felt no joy for the ending, but this is a bit much. Honestly, I think I know what happened with Hudson, and frankly I feel for the man. I'm curious on what he's said on twitter about Christians or the fans though? (I swear, this controversy is goin to get me on twitter before the end...)

I'll make a thread on this when it's not 4:30 in the morning, but I honestly think he had the best of intentions but the delivery killed it. It's a case of wanting to do too much in too short a timespan.


It was Chris Priestly who made the joke, so the OP didn't even bother to research. Kinda of makes his point less valid, not that it was valid to begin with..


I'm sorry but devs are joking about Christians?

#86
Torrible

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Aetika wrote...

I have to say, I don´t even care who namely is responsible for ending. It doesn´t matter. What does matter to me is, if extended cut will manage to fix my feelings over the ending and make me replay the game without desire to shoot myself after the credits.


Bioware is trying to fix the ending and yet some people still feel a need to shoot them in the back while they are doing it.

#87
Shaoken

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Jjacobclark wrote...

BrookerT wrote...

marrak wrote...

I felt no joy for the ending, but this is a bit much. Honestly, I think I know what happened with Hudson, and frankly I feel for the man. I'm curious on what he's said on twitter about Christians or the fans though? (I swear, this controversy is goin to get me on twitter before the end...)

I'll make a thread on this when it's not 4:30 in the morning, but I honestly think he had the best of intentions but the delivery killed it. It's a case of wanting to do too much in too short a timespan.


It was Chris Priestly who made the joke, so the OP didn't even bother to research. Kinda of makes his point less valid, not that it was valid to begin with..


I'm sorry but devs are joking about Christians?


Priestly said on his twitter "Happy Messiah Zombie Day" in a joking manner. Apparantly being technically correct is insulting Christians (as a Christian, Jesus is a reverse-zombie. This is fact. I also chuckled at the image of Jesus blaming Lag for him respawning 3 days later, because it's funny. People who think religion should be off topic for humour clearly have no sense of humour).

#88
Aetika

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Torrible wrote...

Aetika wrote...

I have to say, I don´t even care who namely is responsible for ending. It doesn´t matter. What does matter to me is, if extended cut will manage to fix my feelings over the ending and make me replay the game without desire to shoot myself after the credits.


Bioware is trying to fix the ending and yet some people still feel a need to shoot them in the back while they are doing it.


I know. And I find it incredibly sad. Image IPB

#89
Jjacobclark

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Shaoken wrote...

Jjacobclark wrote...

BrookerT wrote...

marrak wrote...

I felt no joy for the ending, but this is a bit much. Honestly, I think I know what happened with Hudson, and frankly I feel for the man. I'm curious on what he's said on twitter about Christians or the fans though? (I swear, this controversy is goin to get me on twitter before the end...)

I'll make a thread on this when it's not 4:30 in the morning, but I honestly think he had the best of intentions but the delivery killed it. It's a case of wanting to do too much in too short a timespan.


It was Chris Priestly who made the joke, so the OP didn't even bother to research. Kinda of makes his point less valid, not that it was valid to begin with..


I'm sorry but devs are joking about Christians?


Priestly said on his twitter "Happy Messiah Zombie Day" in a joking manner. Apparantly being technically correct is insulting Christians (as a Christian, Jesus is a reverse-zombie. This is fact. I also chuckled at the image of Jesus blaming Lag for him respawning 3 days later, because it's funny. People who think religion should be off topic for humour clearly have no sense of humour).


No actually that is pretty tame thanks for the clarification.

Modifié par Jjacobclark, 09 avril 2012 - 12:53 .


#90
Pfor

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Hey OP, maybe they should also rub your feet when they're sore. And cure cancer. And dig truffles out of the ground for you.

I swear, some of the rubbish demands you guys list here..

#91
shepskisaac

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Aetika wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Aetika wrote...

I have to say, I don´t even care who namely is responsible for ending. It doesn´t matter. What does matter to me is, if extended cut will manage to fix my feelings over the ending and make me replay the game without desire to shoot myself after the credits.


Bioware is trying to fix the ending and yet some people still feel a need to shoot them in the back while they are doing it.


I know. And I find it incredibly sad. Image IPB

And childish. Especially how they're making Patrick Weeks "the Robin Hood" of ME3 endings drama while screaming to fire Casey.

#92
nitefyre410

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Shaoken wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

*snip* 
*snip* .

 

LOL  lawyers don't fired for losing a case..  Lawyers get fired in the middle of case if they are not handling the case right. 

LOL - Film directors don't fired for film flops...  and you have the audicity to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.    


Point still stands; if a lawyer wins several big cases, and then fumbles his last one n the last 1% of it he won't get fired, since he did 99% of the job right and the 1% was out of his hands.

Point still stands; M. Night Shamelon. The idiots who do all those horrible parody movies. I could go on and on and on about director's who have made flops and still had career's afterwards. The point still stands if you were incredibly sucessful in the past, made only one mistake, and you're still incredibly talented and can deliever in the future, you're not getting fired.

And it's a moot point; ME3 made a metric ****ton of money. At the end of the day, that's all EA is going to care about. Casey directed a sucess. Period. Nobody has gotten fired for making a lot of money, and again if the extended cut delievers as promised the retake movement is dead and buried, with the only ones left in it being the same people who complain about everything but at the end of the day will fold and buy the next release; just like the L4D2 boycott saw 3/4's of it's userbase playing the game on the day of it's release, we'll see the same here if the EC is a sucess. Mark. My. Words.

 

Charlie Sheen - 2 and Half Men the highest rate sitcom  on TV at  the time.. .  Went bat**** crazy, he was let go... simple because of the embassement to the Network and threat of losing advertising dollars... and that series was raking a  **** ton of money.   What he did had no threat to  the creative process of the show - he had no problems on set or during filming. It was personal incident that go out. 

I can name you more examples of even more but I won't there is no point.  Because the probllem is that we gamers are too blindly loyaly.   Which is why  things have gotten as far as they have gotten. 

Whether you understand that or not , is really not my problem.    

Modifié par nitefyre410, 09 avril 2012 - 12:56 .


#93
Achire

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People in leading positions get fired over much, much less than what Casey Hudson let happen to Mass Effect 3. In a perfect world, he would be instantly fired and replaced by someone more competent and we'd all be better off. In the real world, he would most likely be replaced by an EA stooge with an MBA.

Hudson made an absolutely massive mistake, yes. However as a producer, it's not his job to write the ending or anything else in the first place. His apparent inability to write doesn't mean he can't do his job as a producer. Just keep him the hell away from the writing team, and it's all good. And make him admit his mistakes. I think the real question is, should Mac Walters keep his job? He's the lead writer for a 50-100 million dollar project and he came up with THIS?

Modifié par Achire, 09 avril 2012 - 12:56 .


#94
Silpheed58

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IsaacShep wrote...

Aetika wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Aetika wrote...

I have to say, I don´t even care who namely is responsible for ending. It doesn´t matter. What does matter to me is, if extended cut will manage to fix my feelings over the ending and make me replay the game without desire to shoot myself after the credits.


Bioware is trying to fix the ending and yet some people still feel a need to shoot them in the back while they are doing it.


I know. And I find it incredibly sad. Image IPB

And childish. Especially how they're making Patrick Weeks "the Robin Hood" of ME3 endings drama while screaming to fire Casey.


+2

#95
Ragebourne

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Oh, its this thread again

#96
BrookerT

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Silpheed58 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Aetika wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Aetika wrote...

I have to say, I don´t even care who namely is responsible for ending. It doesn´t matter. What does matter to me is, if extended cut will manage to fix my feelings over the ending and make me replay the game without desire to shoot myself after the credits.


Bioware is trying to fix the ending and yet some people still feel a need to shoot them in the back while they are doing it.


I know. And I find it incredibly sad. Image IPB

And childish. Especially how they're making Patrick Weeks "the Robin Hood" of ME3 endings drama while screaming to fire Casey.


+2


+3

#97
BrookerT

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[quote]Ragebourne wrote...

Image IPB

Uploaded with ImageShack.us [quote]

Found it for you!

#98
Prosarian

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Without Casey Hudson we wouldn't have Mass Effect. I'd be completely against his firing.

#99
Shaoken

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nitefyre410 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

*snip* 
*snip* .

 

LOL  lawyers don't fired for losing a case..  Lawyers get fired in the middle of case if they are not handling the case right. 

LOL - Film directors don't fired for film flops...  and you have the audicity to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.    


Point still stands; if a lawyer wins several big cases, and then fumbles his last one n the last 1% of it he won't get fired, since he did 99% of the job right and the 1% was out of his hands.

Point still stands; M. Night Shamelon. The idiots who do all those horrible parody movies. I could go on and on and on about director's who have made flops and still had career's afterwards. The point still stands if you were incredibly sucessful in the past, made only one mistake, and you're still incredibly talented and can deliever in the future, you're not getting fired.

And it's a moot point; ME3 made a metric ****ton of money. At the end of the day, that's all EA is going to care about. Casey directed a sucess. Period. Nobody has gotten fired for making a lot of money, and again if the extended cut delievers as promised the retake movement is dead and buried, with the only ones left in it being the same people who complain about everything but at the end of the day will fold and buy the next release; just like the L4D2 boycott saw 3/4's of it's userbase playing the game on the day of it's release, we'll see the same here if the EC is a sucess. Mark. My. Words.

 

Charlie Sheen - 2 and Half Men the highest rate sitcom  on TV at  the time.. .  Went bat**** crazy, he was let go... simple because of the embassement to the Network and threat of losing advertising dollars... and that series was raking a  **** ton of money.   What he did had no threat to  the creative process of the show - he had no problems on set or during filming. It was personal incident that go out. 


He got let go because he made remarks about members of the production team. And you did not just compare going out and making insulting remarks to being head of a project. Apples and oranges.

I can name you more examples of even more but I won't there is no point.  Because the probllem is that we gamers are too blindly loyaly.   Which is why  things have gotten as far as they have gotten. 

Whether you understand that or not , is really not my problem.    


You're still not getting it; Casey Hudson was the head of a game that made EA a lot of money. That is all EA will ever care about. If the EC delievers, all the reasonable gamers will get over it and give Bioware another shot.

You have no idea whose fault the ending ultimately is, but you insist on sayig that Hudson should be fired over it, despite the fact that itwas because of him that we got ME1 and 2, adn that he approved 99% of the game which, btw, gamers enjoyed greatly. So he delievered 99% of the time, he made EA a lot of money, we have no clue if he was responsible for the screw up, but it's being fixed, and more importantly; who would replace him if they fired him? The only reason you fire someone is if they can't deliever anymore. Casey has shown he can deliever 99% of the time, ergo the simplist solution is just have someone else go over the ending. Easiest solution.

Video Games are not baseball. Nor is Charlie Sheen constantly making an ass of himself in public comparable to fans not liking ten minutes of a 60-hour game and that scene getting re-done. Apples. Oranges.

#100
Applepie_Svk

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andomguy666uk wrote...

Bioware, you guys seriously need to take a good, hard look at yourselves, and perhaps consider doing the following:

1) Fire Casey Hudson - his actions in the past few days and with the fiasco his clear "glory hunting" has caused has done Bioware more damage than anyone else could have done without trying, and clearly warrent harsh action

2) Appologies to the fans - Needless to say, Bioware have got to draw a line in the sand, raise their hands, and say "We've screwed up, we're sorry."

3) Endings and future DLC - If Bioware are going to have any hope in salvaging this mess, They need to release new endings for all (without a 2 year time limit to being free), and should probably make sure that all future DLC for ME3 is free, as an extra "we're sorry" to the fans they've screwed over.


1. Yes this i understand
2. It is not demanded but it could be a good move forward
3. Yes endings would be changed but i am not agree with future free dlcs, it is dumb and selfdestructive thinking.
There is no need for apologize if BioWare will figure out new endings and give us much more fun with SP DLCs.