155 réponses à ce sujet

[Fraevar]

Calling for someone to be fired is never OK. I may not like how Casey handled the end of ME3, but he does have a chance to put it right. Now if he doesn't take that chance, does it alter my perspective? Not at all, but I probably wouldn't rush out to pre-order the next product with his name on it.

[Axialbloom]

He will most definitely have learned from this.

[Cruders]

McAllyster wrote...

Casey Hudson's responsibility as the executive producer is true. We can assume the ending is his and/or Mac Walters' creation.

However "fire Casey Hudson" is a very harsh approach. He is one of the creators of the series. We loved Mass Effect. Without him Mass Effect would not be the same.

Yes he made a mistake. A very huge mistake.

But I prefer this solution:

- Casey stays
- Casey learns from this controversy
- helps to fix the broken endings
- and after a looong holiday he comes back and helps to create a perfect, new Mass Effect trilogy.

Imo, regardless of whether or not that post (linked in OP's comment) is true or not, the damage is done and the rumor has been started. What needs to be done is for either Casey Hudson and Mac Walters to step up and outright confirm or debunk this rumor. If it's the latter, I'd like to hear from the writers themselves say that "Yes, I feel that the ending is perfect just the way it is. It is, in my opinion, just as good if not better than the other endings and plot strains throughout this trilogy, including the genophage cure and the Quarian vs Geth plots." I want the writers to own up to this and explain why this ending is indeed the best ending. Hundreds of fans have made their point as to why they think it's bad as well as made some general, as well as specific, suggestions as to how to make it better.  talks about the new DLC announcement.   specifically talks about the ending. 
http://social.biowar...ndex/10405204/1 outlines other issues with the ending. I've seen dozens of threads provide constructive input as well as non-hostile criticism about the ending and the game itself (mostly on the ending) that apparently is being ignored while citing they believe in their artistic integrity.

Well guess... I'm calling your bluff. If you truly believe that this is your best work, writers step up and say so. We want to see/hear/whatever directly from you guys, the writers. Stake your reputations as writers that you're being honest and you honestly think that was the best way to end the series. Then say that all the posts made with solid arguments are invalid and in light of the arguments, it's better to keep the ending the way it is. And we want to be able to quote you on this in the future.

**note I use the pronoun "we", however these are my beliefs and statements (those that are in the actual post, not those that are linked [however I do agree with at least 90% of those statements, thus why I linked them]).

They also have yet to address this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA) 

*edit* btw in keeping on-topic. Yes he made a mistake, and yes he helped create mass effect. In a corporation where the blowback is on a scale this big, where it's all over the gaming media.. generally there are serious repercussions. However, that is none of our business and it's not our place to demand that he be fired. That is up to the founders and higher-ups to decide. Unless you, specifically, are a stock holder of Bioware ... you have no right to demand someone be fired.

Modifié par Cruders, 09 avril 2012 - 01:20 .

[Aiyie]

andomguy666uk wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

This thread again




you know in your ramblings there, you should stop and think where would Mass Effect be without Casey Hudson

Yeah, he's done a lot of good, but letting him go solo on the ending of such a huge game, that has then led to the biggest PR disaster from Bioware and EA, is more than enough to warrent him being fired to me. If he worked for me, He'd be out.

and this is why he doesn't work for you.

just from reading what you're writing, there is wayyyyyy too much emotion involved in your "decision".

sorry, but if the numbers do not reflect that he's significantly hurt the company's profits, he won't go anywhere, and shouldn't.  from a business perspective, so long as he's making the company money still, he's not a liability.

and in spite of how much emotion you obviously have invested in the Mass Effect franchise, Bioware ccertainly has a diverse enough product catalog that unless ME3 had failed to sell a single copy, its profits aren't going to take that big a hit.

the fact that this corporation felt that, rather than completely caving to fan pressure, they can compromise on a new ending is proof enough that not enough of their profits are tied up with this franchise to warrant firing one of its most prominent executives.

[Grudge_NL]

DinoSteve wrote...

This thread again




you know in your ramblings there, you should stop and think where would Mass Effect be without Casey Hudson

^
^
^
That


Also at the OP:

Bioware wont fire anyone because the majority didn't like the ending.

Seriously guys. Do you really want to hurt him and his family in this economic crisis, only because YOU DIDNT GOT THE ENDING YOU WANTED!?

In what kind of society/culture have you followed your education ..!?

Modifié par Grudge_NL, 09 avril 2012 - 01:31 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Cruders wrote...

Imo, regardless of whether or not that post (linked in OP's comment) is true or not, the damage is done and the rumor has been started. What needs to be done is for either Casey Hudson and Mac Walters to step up and outright confirm or debunk this rumor.

So if I post a Youtube video claiming, oh, I dunno, Casey Hudson kills a kitten every night and laughs about it and it gets enough clicks, he's somehow required to dignify it with a response too? The way I see it, the more you respond to rumors, the more rumors will be started because there's nothing internet warriors love more than getting a reaction from "important" people because it somehow makes them feel they themselves are important.

As for what you said they need to come out and say about the ME3 ending, I think "we're proud of the ending and we're not changing it" is pretty damn cut and dry. I don't like it, and I don't agree with it, but I really don't see how it could be any more clear.

[nevar00]

Actually it sounds like Bioware ran out of time and funding to do what they wanted to do with the game. So... turns out we can blame EA!

Casey takes the blame for all those lies we were told pre-release, but I don't think we can say he's at fault for the entire ending.

[Aiyie]

nitefyre410 wrote...

SaladinDheonqar wrote...

I think everyone already knows it's Casey (and Mac) who pushed this ending through. This is what happens when one or two individuals have too much influence and control over a big project like this. Let's be fair though, Casey has done a great job with the series and deserves credit for that. If only he hadn't let his ego and 'artistic vision' compromise what was supposed to be a team effort. It's just sad seeing him and ultimately the team work so hard only to fall at the final hurdle.

 

Like I said - this just like watching a  Champsionship winning coach get let go.  Fact remains that  he failed to get the team past the final hurdle and  the whole thing  Imploded on itself ... that falls on his shoulders.   

Its really not about attacking anyone personal but it may be time for a change to be made to ensure long term viability of franchise. 

bad analogy.

championship team coaches and managers have one job and one job alone.  win games.  its an all or nothing thing for them.

corporations do not operate in such a risky way, and for good reason. 

[AlexMBrennan]

only because YOU DIDNT GOT THE ENDING YOU WANTED!?

This is very simple. We cannot allow people to profit from deceptive advertising. Since there are not refunds for software, asking for the resignation of those in charge is all we can do, that is to say it's the only acceptable outcome. 

In what kind of soeciety/culture have you followed your education ..!?

Google "Fruit of the poisonous tree".

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 avril 2012 - 01:35 .

[Shaoken]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

only because YOU DIDNT GOT THE ENDING YOU WANTED!?

This is very simple. We cannot allow people to profit from deceptive advertising. Since there are not refunds for software, asking for the resignation of those in charge is all we can do, that is to say it's the only acceptable outcome. 

In what kind of soeciety/culture have you followed your education ..!?

Google "Fruit of the poisonous tree".

Yet from Weekes' comments it seems EA is responsible for not giving enough time and money to Bioware, so you're punishing Bioware for the sins of their publisher?

Also you're asking for the resignation of the man whose responsible for;

* The entire series
* Making it a trilogy in the first place
* The first two games and 99% of this game being awesome.

You're cutting your nose off to spite your face. There is no way in hell asking talented people to resign over a mistake that can be fixed is anything but self-defeating.

[Cruders]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Cruders wrote...

Imo, regardless of whether or not that post (linked in OP's comment) is true or not, the damage is done and the rumor has been started. What needs to be done is for either Casey Hudson and Mac Walters to step up and outright confirm or debunk this rumor.

So if I post a Youtube video claiming, oh, I dunno, Casey Hudson kills a kitten every night and laughs about it and it gets enough clicks, he's somehow required to dignify it with a response too? The way I see it, the more you respond to rumors, the more rumors will be started because there's nothing internet warriors love more than getting a reaction from "important" people because it somehow makes them feel they themselves are important.

As for what you said they need to come out and say about the ME3 ending, I think "we're proud of the ending and we're not changing it" is pretty damn cut and dry. I don't like it, and I don't agree with it, but I really don't see how it could be any more clear.

http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/ 
"That being said, the text in question does seem to have some insider knowledge of Mass Effect 3's development process, and subsequent responses on the Penny Arcade forums, as well as one trusted firsthand source, have indicated to us that the text in question did, in fact, originate with the Takyris account. That's obviously not solid proof that Weekes penned the post himself, but it's quite clear that the situation isn't cut and dry either way. "

^ indicates that the post is probably true but was indicated as false to save one's job. That's one theory. Building on that theory, the statement of "we're proud of the ending and we're not changing it" isn't felt by everyone on the team.

assuming that the statement is 100% false and that it was a hoax/troll/whatever and that all the writers stand behind that statement ("we're proud of the ending and we're not changing it ") then simply coming out and saying "yeah we believe in our ending" will only help them. The rumors are currently hurting Bioware. A lot of people are really annoyed with Bioware about this whole thing and some of them are going to stop buying bioware products. It appears that a good portion of those people were Bioware's hard-core fans... the one who basically allowed Bioware to be as big as they are now.

I loved ME2, that's why I bought ME1 (I never did a lot of RPG games before ME2). It was because of ME1 &2 that I tried DA:O and DA2. And yeah DA2 wasn't as epic as DA:O but I still somewhat enjoyed it, though it was more so of the gameplay rather than the story that made it just as enjoyable. I really REALLY liked the DA:O story and how deep it went.

Basically, I'm not sure I want a product where the writers are excluded in the ending, where there's dissension in the writing team to the point where majority of them are excluded from whole sections of the game. Bioware, imo, is losing a lot of face because of this controversy (not just the whole "casey hudson wrote this alone with mac walters" thing)
edit* You also didn't comment about the thread which outlines promises made by Bioware that were never delivered. If the issue was time, they simply had to ask the fans "hey, we need 1 more month to finish the xxx to how we want it, would you rather have it now or later?" Most likely, the fans will reply with a resounding "we'll wait. we want perfection!"

Modifié par Cruders, 09 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Wrathra]

Nevermind. Misread the post.

Modifié par Wrathra, 09 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Shaoken]

Here's what gets me about the OP; he claims that the article he quoted was the Truth. Even though Weekes disputes that it is the truth. Using Weekes comments that he has confimed, several things with ME3 were cut back on because EA wouldn't give them the resources for it.

So we have more proof that EA is at fault than we have against Hudson.

Yet fans are insistant on lynching Hudson from a tree while giving EA a free pass, because they just can't admit that the one responsible for this situation doesn't have a face for them to visualise so they can hate oon it.

[sangy]

I don't really care who's to blame. The end is what it is. Some liked it, some didn't. Keep the ending, but add additional endings for those who want to finish on a different note. The extended DLC might be great or just helpful for some "closure". We won't know till it comes out. I'd really love to see the "Star Child" scrapped. It's just odd. Put a reaper in it's place.

The only way anyone is going to truly feel like their decisions mattered and that they have some kind of control of the ending is to have a better ending. You could still keep the endings for those who liked them. Everybody wins, good compromise. "Artistic Integrity" intact and some love for the fans, why not?

[Cruders]

Shaoken wrote...

Here's what gets me about the OP; he claims that the article he quoted was the Truth. Even though Weekes disputes that it is the truth. Using Weekes comments that he has confimed, several things with ME3 were cut back on because EA wouldn't give them the resources for it.

So we have more proof that EA is at fault than we have against Hudson.

Yet fans are insistant on lynching Hudson from a tree while giving EA a free pass, because they just can't admit that the one responsible for this situation doesn't have a face for them to visualise so they can hate oon it.

Can you link weeke's post about EA?

Also... we already knew EA f***s sh*t up. Look at bf3 and their customer support. whatev's.

[AcesRedd]

In any industry where people make a crappy product, provide a subpar experience or screw up in general; heads must roll. (In a figurative sense) This is something anyone that has a job or career knows. Though I'm aware that those living in their parent's basement/strive/garage may not know this. Someone screwed up this product and regardless of the BS everyone involved, them and us, know something got messed up and someone IS to blame. That may be Casey Hudson or some cheap suit over at EA. Whoever it is should no longer have the benefit of the dollars the consumers paid for the product that was not delivered.

If EAware told me who's to blame and exactly why they're being fired it would go a long way to creating goodwill with me (and probably quite a few other consumers) rather than trying to hide behind craptastic integrity.

[AcesRedd]

Shaoken wrote...

Here's what gets me about the OP; he claims that the article he quoted was the Truth. Even though Weekes disputes that it is the truth. Using Weekes comments that he has confimed, several things with ME3 were cut back on because EA wouldn't give them the resources for it.

So we have more proof that EA is at fault than we have against Hudson.

Yet fans are insistant on lynching Hudson from a tree while giving EA a free pass, because they just can't admit that the one responsible for this situation doesn't have a face for them to visualise so they can hate oon it.

If a criminal admits guilt they will usually get a more lenient sentencing than those attempting to fight or claim they are innocent. (Crimes being equal) The masses don't like liars and we like to punish wrongs. It may not be Hudson's fault but until he stops hiding behind the bull**** excuse its hard to find someone else to blame.

We could blame EA but we need a name. An individual to pass according judgment upon not a company.

[sfam]

What is with wanting to fire everyone? How 'bout instead they all get together in a group grope and fix it?

I would like an apology though, but that looks pretty doubtful.

[shepskisaac]

Apology? Seriously people, they didn't rob your house, they just released great VIDEO GAME with lackluster ending. 1st world problems...

[DESTRAUDO]

andomguy666uk wrote...

So, Bioware promised us endings that reflected our choices, but all we got was a Generic A, B or C outcome, despite being promised otherwise. Why? Well, blame Casey Hudson, who decided that HE ALONE knew best how to end Mass Effect 3

http://www.gamesthir...e-stays-silent/

Bioware, you guys seriously need to take a good, hard look at yourselves, and perhaps consider doing the following:

1) Fire Casey Hudson - his actions in the past few days and with the fiasco his clear "glory hunting" has caused has done Bioware more damage than anyone else could have done without trying, and clearly warrent harsh action

2) Appologies to the fans - Needless to say, Bioware have got to draw a line in the sand, raise their hands, and say "We've screwed up, we're sorry."

3) Endings and future DLC - If Bioware are going to have any hope in salvaging this mess, They need to release new endings for all (without a 2 year time limit to being free), and should probably make sure that all future DLC for ME3 is free, as an extra "we're sorry" to the fans they've screwed over.

Make sure that all future dlc is free huh? Yep. That is a totally  reasonable request. The dev team will be happy to spend a few months a year working for free to make up for their terrible crimes against the human race. Also when they fire casey hudson on your recommendation, they should also make him and the rest of the team come to your house to deliver a personal apology to you. You really do deserve it for being put through all this suffering. 

I am sure they will be willing to do much much more, so please dont hesitate to continue making demands. So if you have any more requests for hires or fires at bioware or EA for that matter, just say the word.

[Dartack]

andomguy666uk wrote...

1) Fire Casey Hudson - his actions in the past few days and with the fiasco his clear "glory hunting" has caused has done Bioware more damage than anyone else could have done without trying, and clearly warrent harsh action

2) Appologies to the fans - Needless to say, Bioware have got to draw a line in the sand, raise their hands, and say "We've screwed up, we're sorry."

3) Endings and future DLC - If Bioware are going to have any hope in salvaging this mess, They need to release new endings for all (without a 2 year time limit to being free), and should probably make sure that all future DLC for ME3 is free, as an extra "we're sorry" to the fans they've screwed over.

1) Firing seems a bit much, maybe let him have a chance to clean up his mess.
2) Meh, don't really care if they apologize or not. Don't think corporate cares eather way, would be empty words.
3) Free ending would be nice, but I'm willing to pay for it. And all future DLC being free... well thats never going to happen, and would never expect it.

[bluewolv1970]

I do not think Casey (or anyone) should be fired however apologizing for the numerous lies he told pre release would maybe help with his credibility - I mean is comments about ME3 not having an a,b,c ending and all our choices being reflected in the ending are so not the case it is laughable...and his tweet talking about how great Mass Effect Deception was really makes it hard to believe a word that comes out of his mouth...

[revo76]

I dont support or i'm not contrary to fire someone or dramatizing 'lose his job' thing, however i dont understand what's wrong with 'Fire Casey Hudson' sentence.

You can dramatize this request by saying many many things, but this shows you're not an adult or person who works in real life.

If you did make a mistake in your real job, you'll get punishment, so simple. If you took a risk without asking your superiors by something lame, and because of that if your company lost money, and product have %50 price drops, you'll get fired.

Like i said i dont support to kick someone's ***, but this is the reality. The game you play may be un-real, but the job and fail Casey Hudson did is real deal. EA is losing money in Wall Street, ME3 prices dropped almot %50 in some cases, people refunded their games, BW became a subject of discussion and a subject of sarcasm by some video game companies (Bethesda made fun of ME3 endings, check internet) and EA/BW lost prestige here. If there's someone needs to be blamed (people or person who made final) they need to be kicked or cut all relation with company.

You can dramatize this thing, you can cry, you can shout, but if there's a mistake there's a punishment in real life job.

[Apfelweinbrauer]

As much as I personally dislike Hudson, mainly because of all the false promises he made pre-release, why do you want him to get fired?

1. Even if BioWare for some reason decides to give him his last paycheck, your broken ending won't get magically fixed overnight, so crying for his blood won't get you anything. And even if so, getting him fired so you just can enjoy a videogame is a bit questionable...

2. If he gets fired, which guy do you want to take his place and fix the endings?
Sure, the ending of ME3 is downright abysmal, but compared to the standards of the videogaming industry, ME1, 2 and the biggest part of ME3 are pure gold.
And please don't suggest Karpshyn as his successor. Have you read his ideas about the ending, the dark matter stuff? It's even worse than the current ending.

I could easily "forgive" BioWare/Hudson for this mess, if they just did three little things, that wouldn't even cost them a dime:

- Release an honest apology for the wrong promises that were made about the endings pre-release

- Tell the fans WHY this kind of ending was chosen and WHY you considered it to be a good idea and what kind of reaction you expected from the fans before releasing the ending. If fans have further questions about your answers, be open for discussion.

- Acknowledge the fact that your ending has disappointed a large majority of the fanbase. I DON'T expect you to apologize for making a creative decision I do not like, but I DO expect you to realize the feelings the fanbase has about your endings. Calling people a "vocal minority" even if they obviously are the overwhelming majority, quoting videogame critics that make a living of your advertisments on their magazines/websites and only posting selected positive remarks from fans on twitter while completely ignoring complaints is just disrespectful.
(one could argue that they already have done this, but I tend to disagree on that, since they continue to hold on the "vocal minority" stuff and so on...)

But somehow I don't expect this to happen... :-(

By the way, all the commotion about a comment some BioWare-guy made on his private twitter is just ridiculous. This is the internet, if you don't like people openly speaking their mind and making jokes without bowing down to political correctness, this place is not for you...

Modifié par Apfelweinbrauer, 09 avril 2012 - 02:40 .

[AcesRedd]

sfam wrote...

What is with wanting to fire everyone? How 'bout instead they all get together in a group grope and fix it?

I would like an apology though, but that looks pretty doubtful.

It would be nice if they fixed it. Just like it woulda been nice if they didn't f it all up to begin with. But since they did and they're not planning on fixing the problem Id be at least happy someone took responsibility for the screw up.

" Waiter it seems someone took a dump on my soup."
"Let me polish that dump for you sir. At no additional cost to you! :D"
"Uuuuh um could I actually just get a different bowl of soup?"
"No."