123 réponses à ce sujet

[Dormin]

My Turian Sentinel with my Revenant becomes the tip of the spear pushing back the enemy lines, you'll never see the back of this Turian.

[KodiakAsh]

Makatak wrote...

Eh, it's good against...Cerberus, I guess.

Everything else has 2 major mobs that rely on armor as a primary defense. If you use AP ammo, you can negate that for a round, but again, I don't like relying on consumables for a class to be called "competitive". My Asari Adept puts out more DPS and rolls in to battle with a Phalanx.

You  can easily equip an Armor Piercing Mod for the rifle and do well with it without wasting consumables every game.  Turian Veteran is more than enough to stablize the Revenant.

Asari Adept is pretty much the pinnacle of game play.  It can rapidly setup it's own detonations (Warp->Throw) which deal massive damage to any large units in the game (Atlases, Banshees, Ravagers, Brutes) as well as incredible AOE damage.  It can CC anything that isn't a large unit to death (including Phantoms, Hunters, etc).  Then to put a cherry on top it can wield a pistol (Carnifex, Paladin) that can headshot most units on Gold in the game in a single shot once ranked up while maintaining low recharge speeds.

The real issue is there are little to no restrictions on weapons and/or
not enough boosts in certain classes to make the weapon based classes as
effective as power based classes.  Even if you made Semi Automatic Assault Rifles super powerful (see pre-nerf Falcon) all you get is other classes like the Adepts or Infiltrators using them while still bringing their absurd utility to the game.

They could easily change a lot of it by balancing out the class specific bonuses to add additional weapon effects such as increasing the base rate of fire of Semi-Automatic weapons for Human Soldiers like they added the Stability for Turian Soldiers (which greatly favors Automatic weapons).  Instead they seem to be focusing on balancing the guns which solves nothing.

[DaosX]

Revenant is like an Avenger although slightly stronger...however, the offset is that it weighs a ton and has an extremely long reloading time. I think it's not really worth it.

[shadowkinz]

i have an idea... give soldiers ammo bonuses as actual powers with the ability to extend them to squadmates via evolutions

find a way to balance/make it work with people using ammo consumables (or they can have the option to switch between them or something)

done! =D

i'm saying this here b/c ppl were talking a lot about ammo powers and i just thought of it lol

Modifié par shadowkinz, 09 avril 2012 - 06:37 .

[Mazandus]

The problem with the Revenant isn't unique to the Revenant. The Carnifex, Phalanx (high level), all the single shot alpha sniper's, the Claymore, are all very popular because things actually die when you hit with them. When compared to something like the Revenant, or Locust, or Avenger, sure, the dps on a spreadsheet is similar or even superior on some of the automatics, but the actual gameplay vastly favors the non automatic weapons.

Massive headshot multiplier. Enemy armor reducing damage by a flat amount per shot, thus favoring single shot weapons that overcome the damage reduction and do more damage with one round than an automatic will do with 30, and then, yes the recoil/inaccuracy of the automatics (fire a short burst with the revenant, unscoped, while zoomed in, the bullets strike in a random pattern within the target area) all add up to a handful of weapons being relied upon, for anyone even remotely interested in analyzing how the weapons work, while the rest just rot in the netherspace of player inventories.


The snipers work. (Aside from the Incisor) The pistols work. (aside from the Scorpion and Arc pistol), 2 of the shotguns are incredibly good (GPS, Claymore) while there are a few others that have their fans (Disciple for staggers, Graal for GPS elitism/RNG curse), and yes aside from the Hornet, every SMG is a useless piece of junk (with a bugged mod, to boot) and every assault rifle can be replaced by a pistol or sniper rifle which will do the assault rifle's job better. There's something wrong there.

[Hyunsai]

Wow, now we have players that outscore entire biotic team with Soldier and Avenger in Gold.

Can't wait for the vids.

[Adam2190]

It's average IMO, the Saber and Mattock work much better for me.

[andysdead]

I like using it for the spray-and-pray effect.

[Mazandus]

KodiakAsh wrote...

Makatak wrote...

Eh, it's good against...Cerberus, I guess.

Everything else has 2 major mobs that rely on armor as a primary defense. If you use AP ammo, you can negate that for a round, but again, I don't like relying on consumables for a class to be called "competitive". My Asari Adept puts out more DPS and rolls in to battle with a Phalanx.

You  can easily equip an Armor Piercing Mod for the rifle and do well with it without wasting consumables every game.  Turian Veteran is more than enough to stablize the Revenant.

Asari Adept is pretty much the pinnacle of game play.  It can rapidly setup it's own detonations (Warp->Throw) which deal massive damage to any large units in the game (Atlases, Banshees, Ravagers, Brutes) as well as incredible AOE damage.  It can CC anything that isn't a large unit to death (including Phantoms, Hunters, etc).  Then to put a cherry on top it can wield a pistol (Carnifex, Paladin) that can headshot most units on Gold in the game in a single shot once ranked up while maintaining low recharge speeds.

The real issue is there are little to no restrictions on weapons and/or
not enough boosts in certain classes to make the weapon based classes as
effective as power based classes.  Even if you made Semi Automatic Assault Rifles super powerful (see pre-nerf Falcon) all you get is other classes like the Adepts or Infiltrators using them while still bringing their absurd utility to the game.

They could easily change a lot of it by balancing out the class specific bonuses to add additional weapon effects such as increasing the base rate of fire of Semi-Automatic weapons for Human Soldiers like they added the Stability for Turian Soldiers (which greatly favors Automatic weapons).  Instead they seem to be focusing on balancing the guns which solves nothing.

This is also true. The weight system was ( I gather) created to force the player into "interesting choices" in how to equip their characters. If, for example, the Revenant was incredibly powerful in the hands of a soldier, the lack of utility and cool powers the soldier has would be balanced by the soldier's ability to field the powerful, heavy, Revenant. But that is not how this game works. The lighter weapons are often better, by large measures, than the heavier weapons. So there is no "interesting choice." There is no depth. You have powerhouse classes who combine with powerhouse weapons to form dynamic duo's of doom, and then you have meh classes who combine with meh weapons to slow the team down. This is not alleviated by the soldier (for instance) also having the ability to equip a powerhouse weapon, as any slight increase in damage the soldier can eke out of the weapon is vastly overshadowed by the other class's powers.

But, I don't know what, if anything can even be done at this point. The game's been out for a month. I really don't think BW has the balls to completely reinvent how the guns work, and I don't see a way out of this hole, without a complete reworking.I just don't get why they shipped the game with the weapon weight system, when it actually offers nothing of value to the experience.

[Reapinger]

May I ask how everyone got their multiplayer character pictures? I don't see them available to me. Thank you!

On topic: I use the revenant with extended clip and armor piercing mods.

[Cyonan]

Mazandus wrote...

This is also true. The weight system was ( I gather) created to force the player into "interesting choices" in how to equip their characters. If, for example, the Revenant was incredibly powerful in the hands of a soldier, the lack of utility and cool powers the soldier has would be balanced by the soldier's ability to field the powerful, heavy, Revenant. But that is not how this game works. The lighter weapons are often better, by large measures, than the heavier weapons. So there is no "interesting choice." There is no depth. You have powerhouse classes who combine with powerhouse weapons to form dynamic duo's of doom, and then you have meh classes who combine with meh weapons to slow the team down. This is not alleviated by the soldier (for instance) also having the ability to equip a powerhouse weapon, as any slight increase in damage the soldier can eke out of the weapon is vastly overshadowed by the other class's powers.

But, I don't know what, if anything can even be done at this point. The game's been out for a month. I really don't think BW has the balls to completely reinvent how the guns work, and I don't see a way out of this hole, without a complete reworking.I just don't get why they shipped the game with the weapon weight system, when it actually offers nothing of value to the experience.

I don't think you really need to reinvent how the guns work, but rather tweak how the Soldier works in multiplayer.

Look at the Infiltrator who is considered a top tier class. Those guys can make their Sniper Rifles work wonders that the other classes can't really pull off. At least not with the same efficiency as the Infiltrator.

The difference however, is that Tactical Cloak is a 130% damage boost to every shot, compared to Adrenaline Rush being a 65% damage boost to most of your shots. Marksman is a theoretical 50% damage boost(firing 50% more bullets), and Krogans don't have a weapon based power at all.

Modifié par Cyonan, 09 avril 2012 - 06:56 .

[Shock n Awe]

Schneidend wrote...

...I want one so badly!

Instead, I have six sniper rifles, including the Black Widow. USELESS!

Blasphemy!

[lolpunch]

I feel like most of the changes they do weekly are stopgaps until they can get a more comprehensive solution in place. Anything more extensive than the little weekly number tweaks has to go through all those wonderful certification procedures, and like it or not, actual game breaking bugs that prevent people from playing the game at all takes priority.

Soldiers just need to have some kind of unique utility to bring to the field. Ammo powers that can stack with the consumables would be cool. Or maybe special heavy weapons like the flamethrower or Geth Spitfire from the campaign that are awesome, but only Soldiers can carry them.

[Awesome_Sockpuppet]

The soldier SHOULD be the heavy weapons guy, but they aren't because there ARE no heavy weapons...other than weight

What should be different about the soldier is that instead of fitness they have a different skill called Efficiency or something.  Each tier will add both shields/hp AND weapon damage on the first 3, then after that each tier also increases hp and shields but from that point favors either full auto or semi auto/ bolt action weapons.  These improvements give drastic increases in "I'm a bad mother f**ker"-ness and let the soldier be the undisputed king of that weapon type.  Maybe:

4A:  The soldier's experience with full automatics has given him pinpoint accuracy (decreases bloom 30%)
4B:  The soldier's experience with precision firearms has increased her speed between shots (decreases reloads or time between shots 30%)

5A:  The soldier's experience with using their full automatic has lead to some fine tuning of their weapon(increase rate of fire by 20%)
5B:  The soldier's fine tuning of their precision weapon grants them increased ammo capacity (40%) 


6A:  The soldier's experience tinkering with their weapon allows them to add an additional weapon mod to their weapon
6B:  The soldier's experience carrying their weapon reduces weight of all weapons by 40%


That's the dream anyway...

[squidney2k1]

Recoil isn't the problem.....it's the random Spread of the weapon. Rounds do not always go where the reticle is, and that makes it very annoying and less useful.

[Mazandus]

I don't think you really need to reinvent how the guns work, but rather tweak how the Soldier works in multiplayer.

Look at the Infiltrator who is considered a top tier class. Those guys can make their Sniper Rifles work wonders that the other classes can't really pull off. At least not with the same efficiency as the Infiltrator.

The difference however, is that Tactical Cloak is a 130% damage boost to every shot, compared to Adrenaline Rush being a 65% damage boost to most of your shots. Marksman is a theoretical 50% damage boost(firing 50% more bullets), and Krogans don't have a weapon based power at all.

There is definitely a case to be made for rehauling the toolset of the Soldier. However, even if the Soldier was revamped, it wouldn't suddenly make all the ****ty weapons into good, or even decent ones. The Revenant may look cool, and sound cool, and give the user a satisfying feeling of spraying the map with fire, but anything a Turian soldier can do with a Revenant, they can do better with a Carnifex. And if thats the case, then why even play as a Turian Soldier instead of say an Adept or Engineer or any other race/class combo?

An Asari Adept can L2 then R2 and get a massively satisfying Biotic Explosion likely killing 2-3 full health enemies at once. An Infiltrator can cloak then sniper headshot and absolutely murder something. Vanguards can be immensely fun, and effective, even on Gold. These classes are cool. They are fun, they are satisfying to play. Nothing should be done to change that.

But...

The Soldier class is not satisfying and fun to play. The weapons that the player would usually associate with a soldier; assault rifles, sub machine guns, most shotguns, aren't fun or satisfying to use, in comparison. They are weak, do little damage for their weight, and since the better classes generally have little use for heavy weapons, prefering to maximize power usage instead, the classes without an embaressment of riches of powers, when turning to weapons to make up the difference, find little, if any satisfaction.

The Soldier and both krogan's, who are bereft of powers like cloak or charge or possible biotic explosions or tech bursts, feel...kind of pointless. Sure they can and have and will continue to be in games they win, but there's nothing I feel like I'm missing if I don't play as a Soldier, or if I don't use an assault rifle. I never go into a game and say, damn, I wish we had a Turian with a Revenant.

[stribies]

Annoying recoil on this gun. And the crazy fire rate of marksman speeds up the recoil to the point where I run out of mousepad space to pull my crosshairs down.

[N7 Banshee Bait]

I just started using my Revenant X & I can't believe how awesome it is. My friend was getting pissed because I was stealing all his kills. It's definitely one of the best weapons in the game. Everybody that says the Revenant & the Collector Rifle suck just don't have a &$^%# clue. I feel sorry for all you guys!

Modifié par Steelgrave, 09 avril 2012 - 08:18 .

[Stardusk]

It is a terrible gun, outclassed by almost every weapon from the Predator, to the Raptor to the Hornet to the Scimitar. It is a piece of fecal matter. I have no idea why BW ruined it so much.

[Atheosis]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Lionheartwolf wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

vonSlash wrote...

A Revenant X with Barrel/AP mods dishes out some excellent damage on a non-Turian, too.

No it doesn't because you're sacrificing power usage for Weapon damage.

Powers> 95% of weapons in this game, Rev X included.

Now don't get me wrong its halfway decent and on turian you can still get 170% CD, but  overall its not that great

thats the reason why people get shoehorned into AA, SI, or SE. the Revenant is just fine on other classes. you dont have to be a power user to be a powerhouse (no pun intended) it works great on soldier class in general and it wouldnt be the first time i out preformed a power spammer with that combo. hell i have out preformed biotic users on without using a single ability. (even on gold, with an avenger) bullets to the dome are much more effective then people give it credit for.

im not saying biotics dont have their place but to suggest that they are better all around does a bigger diservice than anything.

If you play with a good group of 4 the Soldier will never be first. This is just a fact i'm sorry. I've also been forst on gold with every class, but the times I was a soldier or Krogan Sentinal etc I was playing with...not very good gold players

Don't make absolute statements with nothing to back them up.  Soldier can come in first in points with certain builds and loadouts, even on "good teams".  

[Ravenmyste]

stribies wrote...

Annoying recoil on this gun. And the crazy fire rate of marksman speeds up the recoil to the point where I run out of mousepad space to pull my crosshairs down.

you do have the recoil mod right? on my revenant with soldier there is no recoil after taking all stability talets markmen+ rev+ recoil mod v means no recoil unless you zoom in with a scope{why would you do that}

[Stardusk]

Steelgrave wrote...

I just started using my Revenant X & I can't believe how awesome it is. My friend was getting pissed because I was stealing all his kills. It's definitely one of the best weapons in the game. Everybody that says the Revenant & the Collector Rifle suck just don't have a &$^%# clue. I feel sorry for all you guys!

It is awesome compared to itself. The Hornet for example is FAR beter on both Turians. Every competent player (including myself) who I know thinks it is a piece of ****. Are you modding it with the coalesced or something? Because it is beyond awful!

[Blackest_Knight]

Reapinger wrote...

May I ask how everyone got their multiplayer character pictures? I don't see them available to me. Thank you!

On topic: I use the revenant with extended clip and armor piercing mods.

The orange background profile images are CE only avatars. Has nothing to do with MP. I could use them but this guys face cracks me up every time I look at it.

[Atheosis]

Mazandus wrote...


The problem with the Revenant isn't unique to the Revenant. The Carnifex, Phalanx (high level), all the single shot alpha sniper's, the Claymore, are all very popular because things actually die when you hit with them. When compared to something like the Revenant, or Locust, or Avenger, sure, the dps on a spreadsheet is similar or even superior on some of the automatics, but the actual gameplay vastly favors the non automatic weapons.

Massive headshot multiplier. Enemy armor reducing damage by a flat amount per shot, thus favoring single shot weapons that overcome the damage reduction and do more damage with one round than an automatic will do with 30, and then, yes the recoil/inaccuracy of the automatics (fire a short burst with the revenant, unscoped, while zoomed in, the bullets strike in a random pattern within the target area) all add up to a handful of weapons being relied upon, for anyone even remotely interested in analyzing how the weapons work, while the rest just rot in the netherspace of player inventories.


The snipers work. (Aside from the Incisor) The pistols work. (aside from the Scorpion and Arc pistol), 2 of the shotguns are incredibly good (GPS, Claymore) while there are a few others that have their fans (Disciple for staggers, Graal for GPS elitism/RNG curse), and yes aside from the Hornet, every SMG is a useless piece of junk (with a bugged mod, to boot) and every assault rifle can be replaced by a pistol or sniper rifle which will do the assault rifle's job better. There's something wrong there.

The Saber, Mattock, and Vindicator are actually pretty damn solid.

[stribies]

Ravenmyste wrote...

stribies wrote...

Annoying recoil on this gun. And the crazy fire rate of marksman speeds up the recoil to the point where I run out of mousepad space to pull my crosshairs down.

you do have the recoil mod right? on my revenant with soldier there is no recoil after taking all stability talets markmen+ rev+ recoil mod v means no recoil unless you zoom in with a scope{why would you do that}

Yep, tried it with the recoil mod 5 on turian soldier using marksman. And even tried it with scope which someone in another tread claimed was better than recoil mod.

Even have read that the recoil mod shouldn't even be used because something about going into negatives with accuracy. *shrug*