284 réponses à ce sujet

[Echo Six Grimez]

PluralAces wrote...

Quxorda wrote...

PluralAces wrote...

CaduganFaber wrote...

Try playing the class Plural.... Recharge rate is not very different from using a Widow.

thats true, but with a widow you are far away from enemies, with a claymore you are more likely in the middle of a group of enemies so when you need cloak to get away because you have low health, you cant because of the long recharge time...

Cloak doesn't work that way. Also since you are tending to strafe and move around a lot using a shotty all the cloaking/decloaking tends to confuse the AI. They fire at where you were instead of where you are (or sometimes flat out ignore you) which lets you circle strafe things pretty easily for the short amount of time it takes to kill things. Also again only someone whos really inpet at situational awareness or just a plain idiot is going to be getting in over their heads away from the team.

well i have found that cloaking doesnt work affectively against guardians since they always tend to know that you have run past them when you are cloaked...but anyway

maybe the players i have seen use it use it the way i described, and not to generalize the way that particular build is played, but until i play with someone who uses this type of build effectively, i will have my prejudice against it and will stay away from it as much as possible...maybe if one of my friends shows that it can be effectively used then maybe my prejudice against it will cease to exist

The Cloak doesn't mean you're completely invisible, get close enough to any foe on the battlefield and they will track your movements.

It's exactly the same for Geth Hunters, you can actually see the outline of their cloak. The same princible applies to us.

[Pizzasoup]

Doesn't the multiple-pellet shotgun allow Infiltrators to penetrate the shield gate on Gold? If it does, then you could eke out more damage using a shotgun than with a sniper rifle on shielded or Barrier-ed targets

[Arkley]

eldrjth wrote...

the claymore is prob the best at being a shotty, since it can fire a kill shot in close range, but you need to move to the enemy to get this opportunity

No, you don't. You don't need to be anywhere near an enemy to kill them with a Claymore. For the sake of whatever deity you believe in, please, please learn about how these guns actually work before you try to comment on their effectiveness. It boggles my mind to see it. It's like seeing a four year old argue with a mechanic about how best to repair an engine.

[Quxorda]

Echo Six Grimez wrote...

PluralAces wrote...

Quxorda wrote...
Cloak doesn't work that way. Also since you are tending to strafe and move around a lot using a shotty all the cloaking/decloaking tends to confuse the AI. They fire at where you were instead of where you are (or sometimes flat out ignore you) which lets you circle strafe things pretty easily for the short amount of time it takes to kill things. Also again only someone whos really inpet at situational awareness or just a plain idiot is going to be getting in over their heads away from the team.

well i have found that cloaking doesnt work affectively against guardians since they always tend to know that you have run past them when you are cloaked...but anyway

maybe the players i have seen use it use it the way i described, and not to generalize the way that particular build is played, but until i play with someone who uses this type of build effectively, i will have my prejudice against it and will stay away from it as much as possible...maybe if one of my friends shows that it can be effectively used then maybe my prejudice against it will cease to exist

The Cloak doesn't mean you're completely invisible, get close enough to any foe on the battlefield and they will track your movements.

It's exactly the same for Geth Hunters, you can actually see the outline of their cloak. The same princible applies to us.

Yeah and this is part of the situational awareness you need to develop to play an infiltrator well (applies to any CQC class really). Knowing when you can get by and when you cant, knowing where your escape route is and having a planned way out if things get hairy. I tend to use AP ammo so gaurdians aren't a problem for me to kill quickly, and again if you are taking yourself into the middle of 5 mobs you are playing the class wrong.

Doesn't the multiple-pellet shotgun allow Infiltrators to penetrate the
shield gate on Gold? If it does, then you could eke out more damage
using a shotgun than with a sniper rifle on shielded or Barrier-ed
targets

Yes it does, which imo is an advantage over sniper rifles generally since no sniper rifle can kill anything in shot on gold with any amount of shields/barriers.

Modifié par Quxorda, 09 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[eldrjth]

Arkley wrote...


Lastly, they are not "hindered against some units". GPS ignores armour, and the Claymore - even without the AP mod - deals more damage against armoured targets than a Widow shot. Oh, and with the reload interrupt trick, you can fire two shots while under the cloak's damage bonus. Two cloaked Claymore shots outdamage three cloaked Black Widow shots against armour, too.

But maybe you weren't talking about armour? Maybe you were talking about shields and barriers? Shotgun shotgun users are even better at dealing with those than sniper users, due to the shield gating mechanic being completely useless at protecting from multiple projectiles.

Lastly, if you doubt the effective range of the Claymore or GPS, you can try a simple experiment for yourself; equip one (with a choke, if Claymore) and start up a Gold game on Firebase Dagger. Any enemy will do. Go to the central room, the sniper perch. You know the two spawn points opposite the perch, that snipers love to shoot at? Wait for enemies to spawn, cloak, and fire a shot at the group. You'll most likely kill any of them that are in your reticule, unless they have shields. In which case, shield drain first.

I didnt know the claymore ignores armour. I will have to try this. I usually put AP mod on it when I test it out. I have tried it, but its performance is lacking when taking enemies out at range, and trying to get an intentional head shot is just not possible at the distances youre talking about. a headshot gives you ~x2.7 as much dmg, so more than makes up for the claymore higher base dmg through more accurate shots. I will test it out again to see, but I dont think my opinion will change.

[Orlfane]

Pizzasoup wrote...

Doesn't the multiple-pellet shotgun allow Infiltrators to penetrate the shield gate on Gold? If it does, then you could eke out more damage using a shotgun than with a sniper rifle on shielded or Barrier-ed targets

Technically, yes, the claymore does bypass the shield gating because of its pellets. It also depends on which sniper rifle you compare it to. Single shot snipers would be at the disadvantage obviously.

Anyways, to add to the thread, the reason I like using the claymore X over my current sniper rifles is just because it feels like it kills things quicker. I've one shot ravagers on silver (most of the time it's damn near close though, leaving them with 1 armor bar left), and it completely destroys phantoms and any geth hunters that just happen to get close. 

Modifié par Orlfane, 09 avril 2012 - 02:32 .

[eldrjth]

Arkley wrote...

eldrjth wrote...

the claymore is prob the best at being a shotty, since it can fire a kill shot in close range, but you need to move to the enemy to get this opportunity

No, you don't. You don't need to be anywhere near an enemy to kill them with a Claymore. For the sake of whatever deity you believe in, please, please learn about how these guns actually work before you try to comment on their effectiveness. It boggles my mind to see it. It's like seeing a four year old argue with a mechanic about how best to repair an engine.

ok smartarse. load into a match in firebase dagger. stand underneath the main sniper hole (central area) where you can see the two main spawn points. try and get a headshot from there. I can get 170k xp from here. what about you?

[Cosmo G. Spacely]

They are ok in my book, too many inf. have "tunnel vision" when it comes to sniping and get flanked especially by the geth.

[Cloaking_Thane]

If you can headshot with a Widow X with SI (all damage upgrades taken) you can take out a Geth prime on gold in 4 shots (maybe I've seen 3?).

Clamore X infi is about 4-5 in my experience.

Ideally you have a claymore ifi inside with the 3 and a widow user outside, best of both worlds

[Arkley]

eldrjth wrote...

Arkley wrote...


Lastly, they are not "hindered against some units". GPS ignores armour, and the Claymore - even without the AP mod - deals more damage against armoured targets than a Widow shot. Oh, and with the reload interrupt trick, you can fire two shots while under the cloak's damage bonus. Two cloaked Claymore shots outdamage three cloaked Black Widow shots against armour, too.

But maybe you weren't talking about armour? Maybe you were talking about shields and barriers? Shotgun shotgun users are even better at dealing with those than sniper users, due to the shield gating mechanic being completely useless at protecting from multiple projectiles.

Lastly, if you doubt the effective range of the Claymore or GPS, you can try a simple experiment for yourself; equip one (with a choke, if Claymore) and start up a Gold game on Firebase Dagger. Any enemy will do. Go to the central room, the sniper perch. You know the two spawn points opposite the perch, that snipers love to shoot at? Wait for enemies to spawn, cloak, and fire a shot at the group. You'll most likely kill any of them that are in your reticule, unless they have shields. In which case, shield drain first.

I didnt know the claymore ignores armour. I will have to try this. I usually put AP mod on it when I test it out. I have tried it, but its performance is lacking when taking enemies out at range, and trying to get an intentional head shot is just not possible at the distances youre talking about. a headshot gives you ~x2.7 as much dmg, so more than makes up for the claymore higher base dmg through more accurate shots. I will test it out again to see, but I dont think my opinion will change.

I didn't say the Claymore ignores armour, I said the GPS does. The Claymore suffers from damage reduction from armour; it just deals so much damage that it still surpasses everything else even without the AP mod.

Lastly, yes, it is possible to reliably get headshots at good ranges. Again; learn how these weapons work. Equip the choke mod first, and hell, just fire some shots at a few walls at varying ranges. It gets very easy to predict where the buckshot is going to land with each shot. You won't be able to stick every pellet fired on the enemy's head, obviously - you'll be lucky if every pellet hits them - but with practice you can easily learn how to aim, at what ranges and angles, to give yourself the best damage outut.

[Noelemahc]

I only have the utmost respect for Shotgun Infiltrators, as they can do what I cannot.

I also do not understand how people can bash shotguns in general, it only demonstrates that they've never used them, in SP or MP. The GPS is very destructive and rather accurate over any distance even if it didn't lock on, and the shot tracking makes it highly useful against enemies in cover. The Graal is a killer even on the won't-lock-on distance if you aim well (and/or use a choke), and the Claymore is a killer, full stop. You don't even have to aim that well, just point it in the general direction of the opposition and watch the shredded meat fly.

Add the Cloak Damage onto that... whoosh, cooking with plasma right there. Hmm, should actually try doing this, at least on Bronze, gotta put that Graal II to some use...

[Swagger J]

eldrjth wrote...

Arkley wrote...

eldrjth wrote...

the claymore is prob the best at being a shotty, since it can fire a kill shot in close range, but you need to move to the enemy to get this opportunity

No, you don't. You don't need to be anywhere near an enemy to kill them with a Claymore. For the sake of whatever deity you believe in, please, please learn about how these guns actually work before you try to comment on their effectiveness. It boggles my mind to see it. It's like seeing a four year old argue with a mechanic about how best to repair an engine.

ok smartarse. load into a match in firebase dagger. stand underneath the main sniper hole (central area) where you can see the two main spawn points. try and get a headshot from there. I can get 170k xp from here. what about you?

Just because it's easier/lazier to use a Sniper Rifle doesn't mean a Shotgun won't work as well, you just have to be a bit more tactially aware.

[Cosmo G. Spacely]

We need a genophange for all the Salarian Infiltrators

[Barlow]

The hate is most likely for the same reasons Vanguards and Krogans get kicked for. Yes, the setup has potential BUT 90% of the players you see just don't use it properly, don't really help the team and tend to get killed a lot.

Saw 4 Claymore Infils so far in the last couple of days (FBW-G) and all of them left the group to get closer to the enemy to get more kills. Only one of them did not get killed multiple times in the process.

[BlackDahlia424]

Cosmo G. Spacely wrote...

We need a genophange for all the Salarian Infiltrators

So that we can't breed more of them?

I wouldn't bring my claymore SI to a gold match, but on silver, it can be loads of fun as a change of pace. And yes, it is extremely effective to cloak and blow away specific targets (mostly rocket troopers, phantoms and nemesi).

[Machazareel]

I love Claymore infiltrators. Especially against Cerberus.

[eldrjth]

I just tried it then. its not very good in the topmost part of FB:W and not very good in the sniper hole and the back platform in firebase dagger. it cant headshot at these ranges. I suspect its a lot better in firebase glacier but I have to point out to you that a single mag from the valiant can kill anything that the claymore can kill in close range. maybe not as easily with a one shot kill through shields but youre not under threat in anyway. widow/javelin users have reason to be frightened by hunters though.

[Noelemahc]

gzaal wrote...

The hate is most likely for the same reasons Vanguards and Krogans get kicked for. Yes, the setup has potential BUT 90% of the players you see just don't use it properly, don't really help the team and tend to get killed a lot.

Saw 4 Claymore Infils so far in the last couple of days (FBW-G) and all of them left the group to get closer to the enemy to get more kills. Only one of them did not get killed multiple times in the process.

Which is funny as a Vanguard played defensively (i.e. using the Charge as a shotgun alternative and shield charger ONLY, relying on grenades and shotguns to do damage) is monstrously destructive in the right hands. I've seen (and done, I'm immodest, yes) very good solo Banshee and Brute takedowns involving careful doling out of Charges and Graal shots to the face. The Vanguard can work as a good stopgap/decoy character, drawing aggro on the big hulking thing (this can also be done with Atlases in confined maps, Primes, sadly, are too damn smart to fall for this) and then running away from it very very fast via charge.

Then again, I've also seen Krogans and Vanguards that die two seconds after being rezzed simply because they charge back into melee without even pausing for their shields to recharge.

[BlackAlpha]

eldrjth wrote...

you leave the main group and try to gun down stuff that wouldve died to sniper fire. you dont cover your teams blind spots and dont deal dmg at range. you also tend to die in isolated locations that are hard to reach and become swarmed with enemies. you also wont outscore a decent sniper and are severely hindered against some units.

Assumptions, assumptions. You could say the EXACT opposite about a good claymore wielding infiltrator!

The cloak allows you to quickly move around the battlefield, from cover to cover, while shooting enemies in the face, and quickly making a dash to get those flankers, while sticking close to the team.

See? The exact opposite.

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 09 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

OP
because lots of people playing mp are narrow minded
once some ppl tried to kick me out of my own gold game, i used level 8 infiltrator with black widow
just guess who end up reviving them all the time and soloing 10th wave against cerberus... if u read it, gg noobs

Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 09 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[Arkley]

eldrjth wrote...

I just tried it then. its not very good in the topmost part of FB:W and not very good in the sniper hole and the back platform in firebase dagger. it cant headshot at these ranges. I suspect its a lot better in firebase glacier but I have to point out to you that a single mag from the valiant can kill anything that the claymore can kill in close range. maybe not as easily with a one shot kill through shields but youre not under threat in anyway. widow/javelin users have reason to be frightened by hunters though.

Can I ask what level your Claymore, barrel and choke mods are? I'm genuinely curious now, because I can't tell if you're actually getting bad results with it, if you just can't aim it properly, or if you're just lying to prop up your point.

Before you get all defensive, I'm not assuming that any of those are true, I'm wondering which of them is.

And I think you misunderstand what is meant when speaking of headshots with the Claymore. Just because you don't see the head pop animation doesn't mean you didn't get a headshot. Damage is calculated for the pellets individually - you might land one or even two on an enemy's head (depending on the enemy) but if those aren't the pellets than deal the killing damage, the head won't pop. Additionally, getting "reliable headshots" with a shotgun doesn't mean pointing your gun and knowing with certainty that you'll land some of the pellets on an enemy's head - it means knowing that your current range and angle gives you a damn good chance of it. What you can know with certainty, however, is that the shot will kill the enemy. Once you get used to how the pellets land and how distance and the angle will effect the shot you're about to place, it's like second nature.

Also, let's stop pretending that all Gold games are fought at perfect sniping distance or not at all, shall we? You know as well as I do that enemies end up on top of you eventually in gold - particularly Reapers - whether you like it or not. Often, you have no choice but to fight at close or mid range, especially on a few of the maps. And when it happens, you can pick any sniper rifle you like, and it'll be a poor choice next to a good shotgun.

Modifié par Arkley, 09 avril 2012 - 03:12 .

[Whaaaaaaaaa]

Played one for abit and saw other players use them to good effect too. Definitely works on Gold and i actually prefer em to the standard Snipo Mc Tunnelvision sometimes because theyre usually more mobile and cover better. However same problem as always, if you suck....welp

[The5Virtues]

Question:  Why am I getting kicked from gold matches?

Answer: Because you're playing Gold with pubbies.


9 times out of 10 I find that is the answer to the question.
Make some friends, play matches with a pre-built team, playing gold with pubbies is usually fare more stressful and unpleasant than playing with friends you know and trust.

[eldrjth]

Arkley wrote...

Can I ask what level your Claymore, barrel and choke mods are? I'm genuinely curious now, because I can't tell if you're actually getting bad results with it, if you just can't aim it properly, or if you're just lying to prop up your point.

Before you get all defensive, I'm not assuming that any of those are true, I'm wondering which of them is.

 youre obviously being defensive here. I can outscore you easily noob. I had a claymore X for a long while. I can aim noob. not like a shotgun user. I topscore in almost every match. I can hit at those ranges im talking about with a unscoped carnifex. a shotgun cant headshot at those ranges. who are you fooling ffs. I dont even feel like continuing the conversasion if you dont understand the fact that a claymore doesnt head shot from where im talking about but a sniper does. if I get a headshot they should die, they dont. nothing else needs to be factored into the calculation. think about it for a sec. the spread youre getting is about 2 times the height of the enemy at that range. how the fk are you suppose to get a HS? 

fmd. this is why you should ban shotguns users. fking noobs

Modifié par eldrjth, 09 avril 2012 - 03:20 .

[Noelemahc]

And when it happens, you can pick any sniper rifle you like, and it'll be a poor choice next to a good shotgun.

Can't say for Gold, but on Silver a Widow still works wonders if used in the same role as the Claymore, you just have to learn how to shoot it unscoped. If you're a ME1 player, however, chances are that you already know how. The penetration property makes a wonderful horde-cleaner for any chokepoint/corridor, and a decent panic button even out in the open.