284 réponses à ce sujet

[Chamroeun]

What is the reload trick people keep mentioning? xD

[BlackAlpha]

Noelemahc wrote...

And when it happens, you can pick any sniper rifle you like, and it'll be a poor choice next to a good shotgun.

Can't say for Gold, but on Silver a Widow still works wonders if used in the same role as the Claymore, you just have to learn how to shoot it unscoped. If you're a ME1 player, however, chances are that you already know how. The penetration property makes a wonderful horde-cleaner for any chokepoint/corridor, and a decent panic button even out in the open.

I find that with the sniper, you have to wait a split second before you can fire it, else your aim will be extremely inaccurate. You don't get that problem with the shotgun, which means you can react faster at the closer ranges.

[Arkley]

eldrjth wrote...

Arkley wrote...

Can I ask what level your Claymore, barrel and choke mods are? I'm genuinely curious now, because I can't tell if you're actually getting bad results with it, if you just can't aim it properly, or if you're just lying to prop up your point.

Before you get all defensive, I'm not assuming that any of those are true, I'm wondering which of them is.

 youre obviously being defensive here. I can outscore you easily noob. I had a claymore X for a long while. I can aim noob. not like a shotgun user. I topscore in almost every match. I can hit at those ranges im talking about with a unscoped carnifex. a shotgun cant headshot at those ranges. who are you fooling ffs. I dont even feel like continuing the conversasion if you dont understand the fact that a claymore doesnt head shot from where im talking about but a sniper does. if I get a headshot they should die, they dont. nothing else needs to be factored into the calculation. think about it for a sec. the spread youre getting is about 4 times the height of the enemy at that range. how the fk are you suppose to get a HS? 

fmd. this is why you should ban shotguns users. fking noobs

"I can outscore you" followed by the word "noob" - thrice - and then further aggravated demonstration that you don't know how shotguns work and either don't understand or haven't read my explanations.

I just don't know where to begin. You've overwhelmed me with your stupid, and I don't know how to begin mocking it.

Stay here.

I'll go get help.

[Noelemahc]

Chamroeun wrote...

What is the reload trick people keep mentioning? xD

Dodging or otherwise interrupting the reload animation at the right moment lets you get to the "shooty-shooty" part faster for most slowly-reloading guns. There's also some bizarro way of dodging UP ladders, but I've only seen others do it, don't know how to replicate that.

I find that with the sniper, you have to wait a split second before you
can fire it, else your aim will be extremely inaccurate. You don't get
that problem with the shotgun, which means you can react faster at the
closer ranges.

Maybe it's lag-related, I don't know. Virtually every time I had to rely on CQB with the Widow, it saved my ass, the only time it failed was because the Prime turned out to be too sturdy to fall to a gut shot. I got mowed down =|
It is particularly joyous if your off-the-hip shot actually kills the Brute charging at you.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 09 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[Minic78]

gzaal wrote...

The hate is most likely for the same reasons Vanguards and Krogans get kicked for. Yes, the setup has potential BUT 90% of the players you see just don't use it properly, don't really help the team and tend to get killed a lot.

Saw 4 Claymore Infils so far in the last couple of days (FBW-G) and all of them left the group to get closer to the enemy to get more kills. Only one of them did not get killed multiple times in the process.

And in my most recent FBW-G group, the two asari adepts ran full steam towards the closest enemy spawn instead of staying perfectly safe behind the decoy in the tried and true camping spot downstairs... those adepts sure are a liability huh.

[Balrogen4]

Salarian Infiltrator + Geth Plasma Shotgun = Insane damage at almost all ranges, doesn't work so well when you can't see the enemies nameplates.

[eldrjth]

Arkley wrote...


"I can outscore you" followed by the word "noob" - thrice - and then further aggravated demonstration that you don't know how shotguns work and either don't understand or haven't read my explanations.

I just don't know where to begin. You've overwhelmed me with your stupid, and I don't know how to begin mocking it.

Stay here.

I'll go get help.

I read your crap. but do you understand what im saying noob? if you score a HS a standard trooper dies right? and through demonstration just now it didnt. you are the dumbest fk ive meet in these forums. the pellet spread is twice the height of the enemy and youre relying on blind fking luck to hit them with one. their head only makes up a fraction of that height. 

Modifié par eldrjth, 09 avril 2012 - 03:32 .

[Varthun]

eldrjth wrote...

Arkley wrote...


"I can outscore you" followed by the word "noob" - thrice - and then further aggravated demonstration that you don't know how shotguns work and either don't understand or haven't read my explanations.

I just don't know where to begin. You've overwhelmed me with your stupid, and I don't know how to begin mocking it.

Stay here.

I'll go get help.

I read your crap. but do you understand what im saying noob? if you score a HS a standard trooper dies right? and through demonstration just now it didnt. you are the dumbest fk ive meet in these forums. the pellet spread is twice the height of the enemy and youre relying on blind fking luck to hit them with one. their head only makes up a fraction of that height. 

Just as a slight aside, personally attacking people and attempting to swear (despite filters) doesn't really help your argument.

[BlackAlpha]

Noelemahc wrote...

Chamroeun wrote...

What is the reload trick people keep mentioning? xD

Dodging or otherwise interrupting the reload animation at the right moment lets you get to the "shooty-shooty" part faster for most slowly-reloading guns. There's also some bizarro way of dodging UP ladders, but I've only seen others do it, don't know how to replicate that.

I find that with the sniper, you have to wait a split second before you
can fire it, else your aim will be extremely inaccurate. You don't get
that problem with the shotgun, which means you can react faster at the
closer ranges.

Maybe it's lag-related, I don't know. Virtually every time I had to rely on CQB with the Widow, it saved my ass, the only time it failed was because the Prime turned out to be too sturdy to fall to a gut shot. I got mowed down =|
It is particularly joyous if your off-the-hip shot actually kills the Brute charging at you.

You are actually right. I just had a game in which I figured out the whole problem where your shots sometimes don't do any damage.

If you fire very quickly in a row or if you fire quickly before coming to a complete stop (when you are about to stop), then you will shoot but the shot will do no damage, sometimes making it look like you missed. The more lag there is, the more often this bug will occur.

To avoid that bug you have to do two things: 1. Stop and wait about 0.5 up to a second before firing. 2. Wait 0.5 up to a second in between shots. This completely eliminates the bug, even with the Falcon on a very laggy server.

But of course it's often unacceptable to wait 0.5 - 1 second because it will get you killed.

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 09 avril 2012 - 03:35 .

[Machazareel]

eldrjth wrote...

Arkley wrote...


"I can outscore you" followed by the word "noob" - thrice - and then further aggravated demonstration that you don't know how shotguns work and either don't understand or haven't read my explanations.

I just don't know where to begin. You've overwhelmed me with your stupid, and I don't know how to begin mocking it.

Stay here.

I'll go get help.

I read your crap. but do you understand what im saying noob? if you score a HS a standard trooper dies right? and through demonstration just now it didnt. you are the dumbest fk ive meet in these forums. the pellet spread is twice the height of the enemy and youre relying on blind fking luck to hit them with one. their head only makes up a fraction of that height. 

Personal insults and bypassing the profanity filter isn't really going to strengthen your point. As an aside, I too have killed many enemies with a cloaked claymore shot from the sniper perch in Dagger. So I'm more inclined to agree with Arkley.

[heybigmoney]

Yeah its pretty retarded. The cookie cutter salarian energy drain sniper build is overrated and far from optimal but ppl just don't want to try anything else while simultaneously defending it to the death.

Modifié par heybigmoney, 09 avril 2012 - 04:05 .

[suprarj]

The biggest surprise of this farming weekend was the infiltrator that outscored a team of adepts with a GPS in gold...

also, a cloaked claymore blast can take out a marauder shields from full health/shields to dead... that's pretty boss

[eldrjth]

you dont need to cloak if you get headshot to kill standard trooper with the claymore. I want you to do a short recording of you headshotting from there or the back platform as the enemy is spawning. if you use cloak you are killing with a body shot ffs. dont use cloak or energy drain. with a 2.7 dmg multiplier from headshot you should kill a standard trooper. if you use cloak you will get a misleading interpretation. try again and see. their heads do explode with a headshot too.

[Machazareel]

The Claymore doesn't fire a single projectile. It fires a cluster of pellets. Which pellet lands the killing blow determines whether or not the head pops. The amount of pellets that hit the target determine how much damage is dealt, modified by where each pellet hits, with Cloak increasing the power of them all. This is why you can actually kill mobs from a decent range with Cloak and choke.

Edit: In fact, you don't even always need to use a choke, either. It's great for longer range shots, but you can still make easy mid-range kills the Shredder and Barrel mods as well.

Modifié par Machazareel, 09 avril 2012 - 04:12 .

[Cosmo G. Spacely]

When i see a infiltrator with a shotty i smile, shotgun = he prob.knows how to revive and is close by. & he prob. will try to upload devices if that objective comes up.

I don't know why but the last few device objectives i had come up. All the inf. did was cloak and snipe. The drell and me (asari vanguard) had to do all 4.

Modifié par Cosmo G. Spacely, 09 avril 2012 - 04:18 .

[eldrjth]

you arent head shotting from where you are. you are body shotting and killing with the inherent cloak bonus on top of base 1648. a geth trooper has 1856 health. with a cloak+shield drain on top it can kill basic troopers without hitting the head but your dmg is not more than what I can output with a valiant per reload. 3x2800 vs. ~4400 (max dmg from bodyshot when all pellets hit). it has inferior killing speed than a sniper rifle on all enemies, but it kills basic troopers
 inconsistently at range. from the back platform position in firebase dagger its killing powerful falls almost to nothing.

Modifié par eldrjth, 09 avril 2012 - 04:24 .

[Schneidend]

eldrjth wrote...

I read your crap. but do you understand what im saying noob? if you score a HS a standard trooper dies right? and through demonstration just now it didnt. you are the dumbest fk ive meet in these forums. the pellet spread is twice the height of the enemy and youre relying on blind fking luck to hit them with one. their head only makes up a fraction of that height. 

This a Gold lobby we're talking about, here. No sniper rifle can one-shot an enemy with a Shield meter, headshot or otherwise. The Shield Gate mechanic stops all damage from a single source bleeding through the shield. A Claymore fires eight pellets, so only one is stopped by the Shield Gate mechanic, enabling you to one-shot Marauders and Centurions.

Regular trooper? Grats on one-shotting the game's most basic enemy. The Claymore can do that with a casual hip shot, while your 1337 sniper skills had to line up a headshot.

[Machazareel]

eldrjth wrote...

you arent head shotting from where you are. you are body shotting and killing with the inherent cloak bonus on top of base 1648. a geth trooper has 1856 health. with a cloak+shield drain on top it can kill basic troopers without hitting the head but your dmg is not more than what I can output with a valiant per reload. 3x2800 vs. ~4400 (max dmg from bodyshot when all pellets hit). it has inferior killing speed than a sniper rifle on all enemies, but its kill is inconsistent on basic troopers.

I don't know how I can explain any more clearly to make you understand how the Claymore actually works, so I think I'll just give up let you believe what you want to believe.

Regardless, I never argued that a Claymore is just as efficient at long ranges as a sniper rifle, but that it's still viable. My love for the Claymore stems mostly from its ability to instantly destroy Hunters and Phantoms that manage to sneak into the sniper area, which are generally more difficult for a sniper rifle user to handle as quickly as a Claymore user. People generally don't die from trash troopers. From my experience, most people fall to Hunters, Phantoms and Pyros suddenly sneaking up on them. Shield mechanics prevent users of bolt action snipers from killing them quickly, and even 3+ shot snipers have a somewhat harder time aiming at such close proximity. It's a team game, it's good to have people who can easily balance any weakness another build has.

[eldrjth]

you can drain shields with SD. wtf is your argument exactly. after you SD you HS. I can kill every unit at range in one reload with the valiant. not so with the claymore. its kill speed is slower by a long margin for me. it maybe a replacement for someone not very good at HSing with the widow at range, but its not a replacement for a sniper rifle overall for someone who knows how to use one. you need to be close to your enemies to get a headshot kill with the claymore btw. I only ever seen one gps user that scored decently, but that is a gun that can track at range and he wasnt competing against other snipers except me.

Modifié par eldrjth, 09 avril 2012 - 04:39 .

[eldrjth]

Machazareel wrote...


I don't know how I can explain any more clearly to make you understand how the Claymore actually works, so I think I'll just give up let you believe what you want to believe. 

*shakes head. fk. how do some ppl come to the conclusion they come to?  (that means I fking know how it works btw)
 
 

Machazareel wrote... 
Regardless, I never argued that a Claymore is just as efficient at long ranges as a sniper rifle, but that it's still viable. My love for the Claymore stems mostly from its ability to instantly destroy Hunters and Phantoms that manage to sneak into the sniper area, which are generally more difficult for a sniper rifle user to handle as quickly as a Claymore user. People generally don't die from trash troopers. From my experience, most people fall to Hunters, Phantoms and Pyros suddenly sneaking up on them. Shield mechanics prevent users of bolt action snipers from killing them quickly, and even 3+ shot snipers have a somewhat harder time aiming at such close proximity. It's a team game, it's good to have people who can easily balance any weakness another build has.

you said it headshots at range im saying it doesnt. and a sniper does which brings its dmg in line with the claymore base dmg and them some if you consider multi-shooting speed. you kill more effectively are range with snipers because you can headshot. thats my entire argument. only the other guy said it wasnt the case.

Modifié par eldrjth, 09 avril 2012 - 04:42 .

[KnuckLes_8I0]

I played with a Quarian Infiltrator wielding a Claymore X on Gold yesterday. They were putting in work, just as good, if not better, as someone with a sniper rifle. Shotgun-toting Infiltrators have always been cool in my book.

Modifié par KnuckLes_8I0, 09 avril 2012 - 04:41 .

[Schneidend]

eldrjth wrote...

 its kill speed is slower by a long margin for me.

Emphasis mine. This is a big part of it.

Some people want to fight mid-to-close range. The claymore salarian pumps out tons of damage in a different way. There's no objective way to verify which is "more efficient."

[Jure Simich]

I'd just like to tell you all that I've been playing with a very good team of THREE SIs with Claymores, who have practically been doing Gold for me. Best I can do is offer a bit of support with Stasis...

[Machazareel]

But you *can* headshot at range. What is apparantly the issue here is our definitions of a headshot. I'm assuming yours is a shot that makes the head explode like a watermelon, whilst mine is that a pellet hits the head of the targets and does substantially more damage thus making it take fewer pellets to connect with said target for it to die. When in the sniper perch, due to the fact that you are firing at a downward angle, any pellet that hits the head will connect before a pellet that hits the body, thus making it unlikely that the head will pop. It's sort of like taking a Phalanx, shooting the dude in the head a few times, and then in the body.

What you can't do with a Claymore is guarantee that you will hit the targets head, that much I can totally agree with. However with proper aim and the choke, you can make it far more likely that one or more of the eight pellets fired from the Claymore hits the head.

Like I said, Snipers are more efficient at range, but Claymore has no trouble killing targets at range, either. I personally do prefer to use my Widow on Dagger, though, as almost every approach vector the enemy take to get to you is a killbox, and the Widow's ability to penetrate multiple targets is nice to have in that situation.

[joeyaoritual26]

I don't understand some of the arguments presented above either.

Energy drain speced into damage boosts can strip shields of all non-boss enemies except Geth Hunters and Pyros. In the case of Pyros, you can kill it even if it has shield left if you shoot their fuel tank. Against boss enemies Widow with AP mode definitely provides superior sustained DPS as it is capable of taking down a Geth Prime with 4 shots. I also cannot contemplate people arguing that Claymore is equally viable at long-range. It's certainly not that bad, but even in the hands of a Turian Soldier and equipped with Choke V, you'll be lucky if half of the pellets hit the target's body, let alone any hitting the head.

Hence, Claymore SI only has an edge over sniper SI when dealing with Hunters and Phantoms at close range and is inferior in all other cases.