31 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

Edit : this is me getting sucked into silly online complaint culture  - ergh.

Modifié par StElmo, 30 janvier 2013 - 01:10 .

[wowpwnslol]

Fail. RPG's should be RPG's. Focus should be on characters, story, challenging gameplay and complexity, not something to appease dumb FPS console crowd.

[FedericoV]

Well, for first, I'm not a moderator but you should have simply done an edit of your first post and not open a new thread.

I have a single question. Basically, can you tell me what's the difference between your vision of DA3 and DA2 gameplay? Have you actually ever played DA:O and DA2?

I do not see them in your profile.

In my opinion, if the devs are serious about saving DA from mediocrity, they should return to DA:O gameplay and try to improve it for what it can offer as a semi-turn based and chess-like combat system instead of adding features like click-to-attack and exagerated animations that do not fit the genre at all.

[Maria Caliban]

If DA III went with a real time, direct control system, I'd want something like Devil May Cry where the fighting system itself was rewarding. I like the Elder Scroll series, but just swinging my sword or shooting arrows for hours on end has never been satisfying for me.

[-Semper-]

[Korusus]

StElmo wrote...

My ultimate game would have this:

 - KOTOR style combat animations (as in animations that fit with what the character is attacking, and that have flails and parries etc.)
 - DA:O Style combat mechanics in regards to strategy and tactics
 - Real Time control over character when fully zoomed in, to allow for one (player controlled) party member to play out a real time battle movement that may be too complex to program with the tactics settings or pause commands.

What do you think?

I'm so confused.  How is it you're not describing Dragon Age 2 on consoles?  I admit I've never played a BioWare game on a console, but from my understanding the console DA2 has a realtime combat button mashing mode already (after all, when you push a button, by george something awesome better happen!)

Modifié par Korusus, 09 avril 2012 - 06:43 .

[StElmo]

Korusus wrote...

StElmo wrote...

My ultimate game would have this:

 - KOTOR style combat animations (as in animations that fit with what the character is attacking, and that have flails and parries etc.)
 - DA:O Style combat mechanics in regards to strategy and tactics
 - Real Time control over character when fully zoomed in, to allow for one (player controlled) party member to play out a real time battle movement that may be too complex to program with the tactics settings or pause commands.

What do you think?

I'm so confused.  How is it you're not describing Dragon Age 2 on consoles?  I admit I've never played a BioWare game on a console, but from my understanding the console DA2 has a realtime combat button mashing mode already (after all, when you push a button, by george something awesome better happen!)

I haven't played on consoles, you telling me that the PC version is that drastically different?

I would like to have direct control over one character, but keep the chess-like command combat and difficulty of DA:O

Whjat I have played of DAII (just bought it recently) is that it still has that laggy chess-like ness to it, but with more clicking.

I think maybe a lot of people here are maybe too elitist to even consider allowing a more real time element for those who want it. I honestly don't see the problem if there is an option for both chess like gameplay AND real time combat as an option.

[xkg]

^ No. You want player skill based combat. I don't want it. If that makes me an elitisit then ... well , who cares. Not me for sure.

Modifié par xkg, 09 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Maria Caliban]

Korusus wrote...

I'm so confused.  How is it you're not describing Dragon Age 2 on consoles?  I admit I've never played a BioWare game on a console, but from my understanding the console DA2 has a realtime combat button mashing mode already (after all, when you push a button, by george something awesome better happen!)

That's the way the game plays on consoles.

I asked for it to be a toggle with PC, but they said 'No.'

[Realmzmaster]

StElmo wrote...

Korusus wrote...

StElmo wrote...

My ultimate game would have this:

 - KOTOR style combat animations (as in animations that fit with what the character is attacking, and that have flails and parries etc.)
 - DA:O Style combat mechanics in regards to strategy and tactics
 - Real Time control over character when fully zoomed in, to allow for one (player controlled) party member to play out a real time battle movement that may be too complex to program with the tactics settings or pause commands.

What do you think?

I'm so confused.  How is it you're not describing Dragon Age 2 on consoles?  I admit I've never played a BioWare game on a console, but from my understanding the console DA2 has a realtime combat button mashing mode already (after all, when you push a button, by george something awesome better happen!)

I haven't played on consoles, you telling me that the PC version is that drastically different?

I would like to have direct control over one character, but keep the chess-like command combat and difficulty of DA:O

Whjat I have played of DAII (just bought it recently) is that it still has that laggy chess-like ness to it, but with more clicking.

I think maybe a lot of people here are maybe too elitist to even consider allowing a more real time element for those who want it. I honestly don't see the problem if there is an option for both chess like gameplay AND real time combat as an option.

The real time element is already there. Bioware cRPGs use real time with pause. You do not have to pause the game and it plays in real time. The gamer is allowed to pause the action and issue commands. You can have direct control over any party member. What you want is the player skill to supercede the character's skill. I cannot agree with that idea.

[Pasquale1234]

You're asking that the game be made even more of an action game than it already is, where the character's battle prowess depends upon the player's ability. It defies a pretty basic premise of RPGs, which is that the character's success is based on the character's attributes, which have nothing to do with the player's skill.

To put it another way, the character's ability to dodge incoming attacks (defense) is calculated directly from the character's attributes. Whether a character dodges a specific attack is calculated from their defense ability, the enemy's attack ability, and some random factor (dice roll). What you seem to be asking is that the combat be changed so that you could manually dodge attacks using your game controller. That would remove the RPG mechanics from the game and replace them with typical action game mechanics.

There are quite a few pure action games around. Given what you are asking, you might be much happier with them.

[StElmo]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

You're asking that the game be made even more of an action game than it already is, where the character's battle prowess depends upon the player's ability. It defies a pretty basic premise of RPGs, which is that the character's success is based on the character's attributes, which have nothing to do with the player's skill.

To put it another way, the character's ability to dodge incoming attacks (defense) is calculated directly from the character's attributes. Whether a character dodges a specific attack is calculated from their defense ability, the enemy's attack ability, and some random factor (dice roll). What you seem to be asking is that the combat be changed so that you could manually dodge attacks using your game controller. That would remove the RPG mechanics from the game and replace them with typical action game mechanics.

There are quite a few pure action games around. Given what you are asking, you might be much happier with them.

Why can't, if a player choses, he/she be allowed direct control over their character, which is limited by stats? You can limit player skill through stats, I don't see why this should be a problem.

[Pasquale1234]

StElmo wrote...

Why can't, if a player choses, he/she be allowed direct control over their character, which is limited by stats? You can limit player skill through stats, I don't see why this should be a problem.

I think your questions have already been addressed by several people.  I'm not sure whether you don't understand the answers or just don't accept them.

If the player's control is limited and/or enhanced by the character's stats, you're still not really directly controlling the character.  What would the game do if, for example, the RPG mechanics say that your character successfully dodged an attack but with your control of the character, you were hit?  And vice-versa, and the same things apply for your attacks.  You would have two different systems vying to control the outcome of every attack, and that's just silly.

It is possible, I suppose, to implement two completely different sets of battle mechanics and allow the player to choose which one to use, but that is a hugely expensive proposition.  It is very difficult to get one system properly tuned and balanced - among the different classes, skills, weapons, armors - all of which have to be fine-tuned for each difficulty level to make the gameplay enjoyable.  It is not unusual for developers to release multiple patches to re-tune and re-balance the combat and equipment stats long after a title has been released.  And you seem to be asking them to support more than one different system of battle mechanics.

And let's not forget, anything they do needs to be supported on multiple platforms with vastly different UIs.

An RPG is not an action game, and is not supposed to be.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 10 avril 2012 - 01:29 .

[DJ0000]

What this seems to be describing is a Demons/Dark Souls style combat system. While that is a brilliant and satisfying system I'm not sure how well it would work with activated talents as in Dragon Age.

I don't think that the dice roll system is the make or break mechanic of an RPG but I think the activated talents based on attributes is what makes Dragon Age feel different to other games.

[Cultist]

Man, you got Skyrim, Two Worlds, Hunted and whole lot of action based RPGs. Go there, but stay away from Dragon Age, it's already suffered enough from your kind and gave us arcade Dragon Age 2.
Don't mutilate our RPGs with your arcade and jRPG ideas.

Modifié par Cultist, 10 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[Maria Caliban]

StElmo wrote...

Why can't, if a player choses, he/she be allowed direct control over their character, which is limited by stats? You can limit player skill through stats, I don't see why this should be a problem.

They could. Mass Effect 1 is just this.

Cultist wrote...

...stay away from Dragon Age, it's already suffered enough from your kind...

Don't mutilate our RPGs with your arcade and jRPG ideas.

It's as much his and my RPG as it is yours. Dragon Age has not 'suffered' or been 'mutilated.' The developers have changed it over time.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 avril 2012 - 04:52 .

[StElmo]

Cultist wrote...

...stay away from Dragon Age, it's already suffered enough from your kind...

Don't mutilate our RPGs with your arcade and jRPG ideas.

It's as much his and my RPG as it is yours. Dragon Age has not 'suffered' or been 'mutilated.' The developers have changed it over time.

I must say I have been a bit taken aback by the attitudes by people here towards my ideas. Not necessarily the fact they don't like them, but more so the attitude and presumption that I must be a COD generation gamer.

Quite the contrary, I have never owned a COD game and never intend to. I often discourage people to play it too, when there are so many better games out there.

So it's wierd to have people treat me like crap on that presumption.

Modifié par StElmo, 10 avril 2012 - 05:40 .

[Cultist]

[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...
[quote]Don't mutilate our RPGs with your arcade and jRPG ideas.[/quote]
It's as much his and my RPG as it is yours. Dragon Age has not 'suffered' or been 'mutilated.' The developers have changed it over time. [/quote]
...and now they are striving to change it back.[/quote]

Also, usually term "CoD Crowd" is used to describe new wave of players that came with DA2 and those who prefer more arcade and action gameplay. They may never play CoD, that's just term people on forums remembered and put to active use.

Modifié par Cultist, 10 avril 2012 - 06:19 .

[Thor Rand Al]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Cultist wrote...

...stay away from Dragon Age, it's already suffered enough from your kind...

Don't mutilate our RPGs with your arcade and jRPG ideas.

It's as much his and my RPG as it is yours. Dragon Age has not 'suffered' or been 'mutilated.' The developers have changed it over time.

And the new change has promise and looks good for the future of gaming.  I still play the old style games and as much as I enjoy them I'm def one who's looking forward to what the futures got in store for gaming.  DA2 shows potential and promise for future gaming despite the bugs n hole's. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I have no interest in action combat. Zero.

[Meris]

Trying emulate every genre and subgenre in existance will only lead to mediocrity and stagnation (as if that's the only way to please more people), simply because as I seriously doubt BioWare would actually do 2 entire games in one. Much rather BioWare stick to real-time strategy with pause combat and focus on it. Same deal when they tried to please both people who want to actually use their entire party and those who would rather let the AI do most of the work.

Even DA:O, which is certainly more focused than DA 2, could have seen several improvements - especially in encounter design (given the large amount of 'filler' combat), class design (which, while certainly very nice could always see more variety) and stat based character development (all stats should be useful as either a consequence or condition for more varied character customization and class design).

Cultist wrote...
Don't mutilate our RPGs with your arcade and jRPG ideas.

But I do feel the need to point out that JRPG aesthetic has never been tied to a given kind of combat. I've seen JRPGs with RTS, RTSWP, Phase-based, Turn-based and, of course, Action combat.

Modifié par Meris, 10 avril 2012 - 08:13 .

[Sabriana]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I have no interest in action combat. Zero.

There are different games for that. The Divinity series is one of them. They could be called a ARPG, but they still take your Char's stats into account. Maybe it's worth a try?

RPG's are different in that matter. Yes, you will get hit by "that" ogre, even if you do jump out of the way, but the hit has been determined before that. Your stats, and most importantly, the dye-roll, has already been taken into consideration and impacts the outcome. As it should.

[Meris]

Sabriana wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I have no interest in action combat. Zero.

There are different games for that. The Divinity series is one of them. They could be called a ARPG, but they still take your Char's stats into account. Maybe it's worth a try?

RPG's are different in that matter. Yes, you will get hit by "that" ogre, even if you do jump out of the way, but the hit has been determined before that. Your stats, and most importantly, the dye-roll, has already been taken into consideration and impacts the outcome. As it should.

So... you agree with Sylvius?

Modifié par Meris, 10 avril 2012 - 08:29 .

[BomimoDK]

No go. That is all. This is smelly boom-boom.

[Sabriana]

Meris wrote...

So... you agree with Sylvius?

In a way, Meris. Or from a certain point of view.

I completely understand why Sylvius has no interest in action games, or even ARPG's. I do like a few (namely the Divinity series and a few others). But a RPG with stats and dye-rolls are completely different. So yes, I do agree with him from his point of view. However, that doesn't mean that I, personally, can't enjoy ARPG's.

However, I'd much prefer that action games are kept distinctly apart from RPG's. I am at heart a RPG player. That means, I want complete control of my character. I want to control everything she says, does, and equips, including the equipment of her companions. I want her to be "my" creation from start to finish. Nothing she does, says, or equips should be beyond my control.

I hope that makes some sense. It's getting late here in Europe, and I'm a tad tired. Yeah, I know, excuses, excuses.