273 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

Nice, DeinonSlayer, I like that. I've actually got a closure thread and an additional dialogue thread in my sig too, if you have further ideas

[Father_Jerusalem]

Who's down with OPP? Well.. minus the second P.

I'm down with OPP.... again, minus... ah, you know.

[BladyMZ]

Its funny how Bioware said it was very hard for them to include ending flashback with LI from ME2, yet after 20 minutes of work random guy from Miranda Topic created his own flashback for Miranda LI + tutorial how to do it yourself.

[Lietuvis]

+1

[Mara Shep]

Argh, sorry, wrong area.  *Delete*

Modifié par Mara Shep, 12 avril 2012 - 09:11 .

[lillitheris]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Who's down with OPP? Well.. minus the second P.

I'm down with OPP.... again, minus... ah, you know.

Oh dear, the flashbacks.

Although a little jamming might be a good addition, too. There's a sound system after all.

[HairyMadDog1010]

Just show me a screenshot of six months down the line showing a pregnant femshep/female LI/An adopted baby.

Modifié par HairyMadDog1010, 12 avril 2012 - 09:41 .

[Mad Man Mac]

I'm Mad Man Mac and I approve this thread

[Tirigon]

Yes I completely agree.

[Apathy1989]

Would be nice.

[Apathy1989]

BladyMZ wrote...

Its funny how Bioware said it was very hard for them to include ending flashback with LI from ME2, yet after 20 minutes of work random guy from Miranda Topic created his own flashback for Miranda LI + tutorial how to do it yourself.

Wow they are ****ing lazy.

[lillitheris]

Meh, move…figured it'd be topical enough for General, but I suppose not.

Mad Man Mac approves…but is it the BEST thread on the network?

[gearseffect]

lillitheris wrote...

I'd like to propose some small enhancements for romances. They should be easy to implement (insofar as anything about game development is easy), as they need no new dialogue/VA, no new models, etc.; but despite being minor, can significantly enhance the character interaction – which is especially important for closure for ME3.

ME3's in a curious place because it needs to work for both those new to the game, and those who've been carrying romances from ME or ME2. For the former, it makes sense to prolong the “consummation” of the romance (whatever it is in that particular case), but not so for the established couples. Therefore, I suggest that these changes only apply to characters that are tagged as ME or ME2 imports, and have romances that are not broken up at the end of ME2.

These require minimal dialogue – and all of it can be repurposed from existing material. No new VA is needed. Most if not all of the animation should also be present already. So, without further ado, some of my suggestions:


Touching. I don't mean groping, but the more mundane gestures in normal situations (i.e. any dialogue/room/cutscene, not a special “love scene”). These include hugs, hand on the shoulder or back, touching the arm or hand when leaving, touching the chin, cheek, hair, meaningful looks. Also, proximity. The LI NPC could stand a little closer than other NPCs.

Fade to black (or fade out-fade in) talks/activity. Again, I don't mean naughty activities (or talk), but simply something that establishes more normalcy in the relationship (if you think that end of the world would prevent people from doing that, you're wrong {smilie}). This is pretty easily done: either the LI finds Shepard or the other way around (sitting on a chair could be a trigger condition for Shepard), Shep/LI does a quick “I just want to talk”, then optionally throw in one or two pre-existing dialogue lines about something mundane, then fade to black, then fade back in with Shep/LI saying “I'll see/talk to you later”, “bye”, or whatever. This can be restricted to location like the captain's cabin, the lounge, cafes on the Citadel or whatever. (Incidentally, I think this should be available for squaddies too, but that's beside this proposal.)

Tying into the former, if the LI is on the Normandy, they should occasionally be found in the captain's cabin or come in when the player's there. If deemed appropriate, there could be a short “can I come by” -> “anytime” dialogue (which again should be easy to grab from existing material). I don't really think it's necessary, though, after the confirmation that the relationship continues.

If the LI is on the Normandy, LI should be in the bed (or just in the room, e.g. Liara could be moved) when Shepard wakes from nightmares. Add just short glimpse of a comforting hug or “everything alright?”, and then fade to black and continue from the normal place.
{smilie}

Anyone have other suggestions? Remember, these should all be very simple, with minimal requirements. I know that some LI's could really use work for their main love scene too, but that's outside the scope of these proposals.

Am I the only one who sees this post as being rather one sided in favor of only certain LI's from ME2? And in favor of all LI's from ME1 Liara and VS?

Because I really don't see how this does anything to add to my only LI, Samara

And people wonder why I'm losing faith and my fighting spirit is breaking,

Sorry to be a downer, but whenever new ideas to better LI's pop up the lack of any support and ideas for Samara just kills me, it's like it all just rips open those wounds left by ME3 and makes them bigger,
I've been left with this giant hole from ME3 and the little hope I've got and reasons for coming back here are dwindling quickly,
Hence why I feel I'm only going to start hold everyone back,

[lillitheris]

gearseffect wrote...

Because I really don't see how this does anything to add to my only LI, Samara

…Please add suggestions? Small ones, though. Unfortunately quite a few of the romances need much more extensive fixes.

[gearseffect]

lillitheris wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

Because I really don't see how this does anything to add to my only LI, Samara

…Please add suggestions? Small ones, though. Unfortunately quite a few of the romances need much more extensive fixes.

See that's the problem I've got, everyone is throwing out these ideas that they have to fix the LI's of Jack, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, Thane and VS Ashley/Kaidan,

and Add a sh!tton more to Liara,

It's all so god damn depressing for me to watch helplessly as Samara gets drowned out in the every growing swarm of Liara, Jack, Miranda, Garrus stuff.

and people wonder why I'm lossing so much faith each day,
I'm starting to wonder if this feeling of dispair and depression is what forced so many fans to leave to boards all together, and I'm starting to wonder if it's best for my mental health to leave too.

I've been trying to do so much and well frankly what has BW done to Samara's fans, ya come here and all these topics for Thane, Jack, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, and god dangit Liara are all spewing forth active fans activly join the cause and here is Samara and Jacob with nothing.

[78stonewobble]

gearseffect wrote...

See that's the problem I've got, everyone is throwing out these ideas that they have to fix the LI's of Jack, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, Thane and VS Ashley/Kaidan,

and Add a sh!tton more to Liara,

It's all so god damn depressing for me to watch helplessly as Samara gets drowned out in the every growing swarm of Liara, Jack, Miranda, Garrus stuff.

and people wonder why I'm lossing so much faith each day,
I'm starting to wonder if this feeling of dispair and depression is what forced so many fans to leave to boards all together, and I'm starting to wonder if it's best for my mental health to leave too.

I've been trying to do so much and well frankly what has BW done to Samara's fans, ya come here and all these topics for Thane, Jack, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, and god dangit Liara are all spewing forth active fans activly join the cause and here is Samara and Jacob with nothing.

Well unfortunately there isn't alot to work with in the case of Samara. As a Li she was underdeveloped by bioware.

Thats not the OP's fault though and... from one point of view the op's suggestions could actually help on the situation.

If you can, through creative use, get a good emotional impact from reusing existing dialogue, cutscenes and animations. It "should" save time and money to be used on other characters or atleast elsewhere in the game.

Most bang (well since it's love interests then literally bang) for the the buck...

[Thracecius]

gearseffect wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

Because I really don't see how this does anything to add to my only LI, Samara

…Please add suggestions? Small ones, though. Unfortunately quite a few of the romances need much more extensive fixes.

See that's the problem I've got, everyone is throwing out these ideas that they have to fix the LI's of Jack, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, Thane and VS Ashley/Kaidan,

and Add a sh!tton more to Liara,

It's all so god damn depressing for me to watch helplessly as Samara gets drowned out in the every growing swarm of Liara, Jack, Miranda, Garrus stuff.

and people wonder why I'm lossing so much faith each day,
I'm starting to wonder if this feeling of dispair and depression is what forced so many fans to leave to boards all together, and I'm starting to wonder if it's best for my mental health to leave too.

I've been trying to do so much and well frankly what has BW done to Samara's fans, ya come here and all these topics for Thane, Jack, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, and god dangit Liara are all spewing forth active fans activly join the cause and here is Samara and Jacob with nothing.

I don't want to seem dismissive here, because Samara is one of my favorite characters (I even have an autographed picture from the gal who was her face model), but she never was a romance option. In ME2, when you get toward the end of the dialogue options with her (on the Normandy observation deck), Samara actually politely rebuffs Shepard when he broaches the subject of her falling in love again. She simply isn't interested in romance anymore because of her dedication to being a justicar. It might be disappointing, but it seems to me that one should respect her opinion on the subject. 

As for Jacob, I like him as a character and he had some good dialogue in ME2 (especially with a female Shepard, asking her how she really felt about being a leader, not what she told the crew), but his key trait was dependability and unfortunately that just didn't catch on with very many. I found his side mission with the escaping Cerberus scientists in ME3 to be a fitting summation for him, because it was good to see him (noticeably) appreciated.

[gearseffect]

Umm I have to disagree with ya on Samara not being a LI, and The Code don't forbid any sort of romantic involvement, Samara tells ya that time and time again in ME2.

Next just because she didn't screw Shepard before the SM like all the other LI's don't mean that she said NO, it was really a big cliff hanger, and it's the giant elephant in the room that never gets acknowledged in ME3.

That one lame @ss line of dialogue that a LI Samara gives Shepard is just BS. It's so stupid it makes more sense for it to be used with a Non-LI Samara/Shepard. Because for an LI Samara it opened the door for Shepard to bring up that freaking elephant in the room, instead Shepard just sits there all dumb and stupid and then walks away.

for those of you who don't know this is the single line of dialogue that LI Samara says to Shepard well holding Shepards hand I might add too "Your time is precious spend it wisely with those you love and who care for you"

Now after that all Shepard can do is just sit there like a complete dumbF*ck and not say anything else that's it the conversation is done and over with.

NOW given that Samara was an LI and that single freaking different line for LI Samara, and the whole Samara taking Shepard's hand in hers as she says it to him/her, then all you can do is just sit there, that's BS, it's more like a friend Shepard, ya know how many of us Samara fans were so P!SSED that the conversastion ended and we never got to say anything, ya know how many of us wanted to throw our Shepards at Samara screaming "That's you that's you,. your the only one I love"

Ya know what I wish like hell that BW would have made all Shepards forced into not being able to continue a Romance with Miranda, Garrus, Tali, and Jack, and gave all them LI's just as much stupid different dialogue options as Samara, then maybe people wouldn't be so god damn quick the throw Samara out the widow as a LI,

So when I see sh!t like this you god damn right it p!sses me off, because ya know that whole f*cking ME3 game was just on pile of dog sh!t for fans, and the only LI to get any just due (which is over just if you ask me) is Liara, and as of now the only f*cking thing that keeps me from not just throwing in the towel and saying f*ck you @ssholes to hell with BSN is that there may be some sliver of hope for LI DLC, and stuff if us fans can push hard enough for it,

But the inquisition I keep asking myself is, All my efforts going to be for nothing, because if there is no Samara content then you goddamn right all my efforts will be for nothing.

For the PAX LI book I had a letter ready to go for Jack, but I never sent it because I just did not want to put the odds in any other LI's favor because that would only lessen the chance of Samara stuff.
Right now with this 2nd project I have a Thane thing all ready to go but I'm going to wait till the last f*cking second because again I WILL NOT stack the odds against Samara.

And well you can say that that only hurts this cause, I gotta say this the only god damn reason we have this cause is because we are all hoping for something more with our LI, and so it's still a fan against fan war.
Because EA/BW is going to look at this crap and say well these characters have the most biggest and loudest fan base out there, that's where the money is at, and I refuse to contribute to something that is going to back fire on me and gain me nothing but everyone else something,


So you god damn f*cking A right I'm going to be rather vocal and be as freaking loud as I can and continue to try and get more people to stop over looking Samara as a LI, and ya know if at some freaking point these stupid causes are not gaining any ground for me, I'll be off BSN so fast and leave it with my middle finger proudly raised at the abomination that is becoming Mass Effect.

[lillitheris]

78stonewobble wrote...

If you can, through creative use, get a good emotional impact from reusing existing dialogue, cutscenes and animations. It "should" save time and money to be used on other characters or atleast elsewhere in the game.

This is a good way of putting it; while all LIs could use some work, I think that in the case of the Normandy shipmates, this would go a long way toward deprioritizing them in that respect (by the numbers, Liara/Tali/Ash/Kaidan/Garrus + Traynor/Cortez(/Allers) probably cover a very significant number of players). Each of their arcs would be satisfying enough with these very simple additions, allowing whatever resources there are available to go into developing the others.

Because the interactions proposed are also completely generic (essentially just checking an “is current carried-over lover” flag rather than tailored per character), the development wouldn't go to “waste” like it does for a squadmate that may have died in ME2.

Whether adding more complete relationships for the nonshipmates will happen, or would happen anyway, I can't say.

Something similar to the Normandy interactions could/should be added for the Citadel, but even that is much more limited in the case of non-shipmates. Samara in particular is very hard, because she features in a very defined role and the state of the relationship at the end of ME2 was, at best, ambiguous; it feels like she was intended more as an unrequited love.

That said, I certainly understand that there are players who would like to pursue with her…so, perhaps, a DLC that happens to take place wherever it was that she was deployed, adding some closure by fleshing out the relationship alongside the actual mission(s)? I'd suggest finding out what that was (or you probably already remember) and see if you can work that into a good DLC format.

Modifié par lillitheris, 13 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[lillitheris]

Hrm. I was trying to run some scenarios on the Citadel, and I have to admit that they don't work particularly well for non-Normandeers. They'll still be confined (mostly) to the special scenes.

[78stonewobble]

lillitheris wrote...

Hrm. I was trying to run some scenarios on the Citadel, and I have to admit that they don't work particularly well for non-Normandeers. They'll still be confined (mostly) to the special scenes.

Wait what?

Ingame?

Or just hmm mentally? 

[lillitheris]

78stonewobble wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Hrm. I was trying to run some scenarios on the Citadel, and I have to admit that they don't work particularly well for non-Normandeers. They'll still be confined (mostly) to the special scenes.

Wait what?

Ingame?

Or just hmm mentally? 

They don't just hang around the Citadel like your crewmates; almost all interaction you have with them (at least after you've reaffirmed the relationship) is more or less special scenes. Of course you can still add the more intimate partings and greetings to those, too, but you're more limited.

As opposed to say, Liara, who's extremely huggable-from-behind watching over the railing, and so on.

[PhoenixDove1]

lillitheris wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Who's down with OPP? Well.. minus the second P.

I'm down with OPP.... again, minus... ah, you know.

Oh dear, the flashbacks.

Although a little jamming might be a good addition, too. There's a sound system after all.

Father, you're funny, and yes I agree with the OP, and like she just said, it would be nice if we could maybe import our own music files or something so we could hear our music   probably not possible but I always thought that'd be cool.

[78stonewobble]

lillitheris wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Hrm. I was trying to run some scenarios on the Citadel, and I have to admit that they don't work particularly well for non-Normandeers. They'll still be confined (mostly) to the special scenes.

Wait what?

Ingame?

Or just hmm mentally? 

They don't just hang around the Citadel like your crewmates; almost all interaction you have with them (at least after you've reaffirmed the relationship) is more or less special scenes. Of course you can still add the more intimate partings and greetings to those, too, but you're more limited.

As opposed to say, Liara, who's extremely huggable-from-behind watching over the railing, and so on.

Hmmm *ponders*

Well if Shepards on the citadel then the Normandy is at the citadel.

Meh... It would require some reuse of ME2 material then if Shep were to invite them to the cabin.

Theoretically possible but...

[im commander shep]

78stonewobble wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

love the suggestions, but I foresee a problem;

as easy as these would be, it's just as easy to dismiss it all with the comment;
Bioware with a troll face;
the Normandy is an Alliance military ship. internal fraternization is generally frowned upon. 




infact, in me1 I seem to remember the vs li mention this particularly.

While I can't do anything versus deus ex bioware troll face...

Regarding the normandy being an alliance ship. I think Shepard has earned a little leeway and technically some of the Li's are not alliance crewmembers. More like guests. *cough*

Also its the end of the galaxy, almost all the rules have gone out the window. I know Tali was quite flirty with shep most of the time when the other admirals were not around.