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Small LI Improvements for/in DLCs, w/Minimal Dev Resources


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#126
lillitheris

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Dead_Meat357 wrote...

I'd like to have seen this too. I support everything the OP listed. The problem is that such game polish is hard when you aren't on a crunch for time. The devs didn't have time to make an ending that wasn't garbage. Stuff like you outlined is low priority and probably not something we'll see in a patch or in a DLC.


It's a possibility, yeah. I'm hoping that they might have the time after all, and use this scheme to bridge the gap before we start getting actual DLC for any of the characters. Hopefully some of these have small enough costs to get implemented.

#127
Dead_Meat357

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lillitheris wrote...

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

I'd like to have seen this too. I support everything the OP listed. The problem is that such game polish is hard when you aren't on a crunch for time. The devs didn't have time to make an ending that wasn't garbage. Stuff like you outlined is low priority and probably not something we'll see in a patch or in a DLC.


It's a possibility, yeah. I'm hoping that they might have the time after all, and use this scheme to bridge the gap before we start getting actual DLC for any of the characters. Hopefully some of these have small enough costs to get implemented.


Given that the game can't bother to see what weapon Shepard and squad mates have equipped for use in cutscenes tells me that BioWare doesn't care enough to handle small things like this right at all. (I would never use the M3 Predator, M8 Avenger or M4 Shuriken. These are terrible guns.) I'm just happy with the Mars scene with Liara (when Shepard touches her face, etc. if you romanced her.) and other stuff done a bit later with her. Everyone else got it worse. Ashley in my playthrough with her wouldn't touch Shepard like ever because he had Cerberus coodies or something.

Modifié par Dead_Meat357, 15 avril 2012 - 07:48 .


#128
lillitheris

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Dead_Meat357 wrote...

Given that the game can't bother to see what weapon Shepard and squad mates have equipped for use in cutscenes tells me that BioWare doesn't care enough to handle small things like this right at all.


I've told myself that it's not “didn't bother”, it's “didn't have time”, and that the keyword is DIDN'T. I'm hoping for a fairly extensive DLC, one part of which could be these gameplay improvements…:wub:



There aren't any LIs who aren't on the Citadel (or Normandy) at some point, are there? I think the scheme could be made work for people there, too, but I'm not sure if other locations would complicate things further.

#129
Dead_Meat357

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lillitheris wrote...

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

Given that the game can't bother to see what weapon Shepard and squad mates have equipped for use in cutscenes tells me that BioWare doesn't care enough to handle small things like this right at all.


I've told myself that it's not “didn't bother”, it's “didn't have time”, and that the keyword is DIDN'T. I'm hoping for a fairly extensive DLC, one part of which could be these gameplay improvements…:wub:



There aren't any LIs who aren't on the Citadel (or Normandy) at some point, are there? I think the scheme could be made work for people there, too, but I'm not sure if other locations would complicate things further.


The issue with the wrong weapons being used in the cut scenes has been present since Mass Effect 1. Let's not forget they took out animations for holstering your weapons in Mass Effect 3. I hate seeing Shepard's awkward, put away his pistol the same as he does a rifle over his shoulder and onto his back when switching weapons. If they didn't care about this, things like having your chosen love interests hugging Shepard or standing closer are right out.

Modifié par Dead_Meat357, 15 avril 2012 - 09:33 .


#130
canarius

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What we need is Traynor to be a bisexual.

#131
lillitheris

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canarius wrote...

What we need is Traynor to be a bisexual.


Do we? It's kind of nice that everyone has a defined sexual identity, although on the other hand I suppose it's equally unrealistic that all the NPCs will return feelings for Shepard if their preference matches.

For ultimate realism, each new game should randomly select each NPC an orientation and whether they'll be interested in Shepard! That would make replays interesting.

:blink::o:wub:

#132
Flidget

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Redoing cut-scenes or creating additional cut-scenes would actually be pretty resource-intensive but I'd take the extra emails. Or, if nothing else, a version of the Datapad ap for Chrome, with more emails for LIs, along the level of Garrus sends . . . though I imagine porting that will be more work than just putting more emails in game, really.

#133
Dead_Meat357

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lillitheris wrote...

canarius wrote...

What we need is Traynor to be a bisexual.


Do we? It's kind of nice that everyone has a defined sexual identity, although on the other hand I suppose it's equally unrealistic that all the NPCs will return feelings for Shepard if their preference matches.

For ultimate realism, each new game should randomly select each NPC an orientation and whether they'll be interested in Shepard! That would make replays interesting.

:blink::o:wub:


Actually they won't. Samara will never accept Shepard's advances. Neither will Vega. Mordin seems to think you have a thing for him and regardless of your responses he'll shoot you down. Though he does sometimes say; "If I were going to try a human, it would be you." Or something to that effect. Kelly will not come up to your room and dance for you if you are in a relationship either. So that's a qualifier on her expressing interest in Shepard. At any rate not everyone responds well to Shepard's advances. As it should be.

#134
lillitheris

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Dead_Meat357 wrote...
 At any rate not everyone responds well to Shepard's advances. As it should be.


I meant every one of the potential LIs. But, minor point.

#135
lillitheris

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lillitheris wrote...
There aren't any LIs who aren't on the Citadel (or Normandy) at some point, are there? I think the scheme could be made work for people there, too, but I'm not sure if other locations would complicate things further.


I guess it'd really just be Thane (and Kelly) who would benefit from most of these.

#136
d1ta

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Not sure if it's simple enough or not, but.. 'Paragon interupt kisses'? XD

#137
Aren19

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canarius wrote...

What we need is Traynor to be a bisexual.

How about no.  It wouldn't be fair to FemSheps since most of the female LI are bisexual, Traynor should still remain exclusively to FemSheps, Cortez is exclusive to MaleSheps, so why should just Traynor be bisexual?  Because it ruins the character.  Besides, MaleSheps have enough LIs, they can have anyone besides Traynor and Garrus.

Besides clarification, the one thing I would like to see with the Extended Cut DLC is a change in the final flashback.  My FemShep might have been good buddies with Liara, but I think she would've thought of Garrus long before Liara.  If that's not happening, then I'd rather have the flags changed or something so the squad mate killed on Virmire made a small appearance if I can't get the Garrus flashback, in my case that would be Kaidan being shown instead of Liara.

d1ta wrote...

Not sure if it's simple enough or not, but.. 'Paragon interupt kisses'? XD 

 
I know Garrus has two

Modifié par Aren19, 16 avril 2012 - 02:18 .


#138
lillitheris

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d1ta wrote...

Not sure if it's simple enough or not, but.. 'Paragon interupt kisses'? XD


Actually the paragon/renegade interrupt mechanism could probably be repurposed. I'm not sure if it's active outside dialogue sequences.

#139
Dead_Meat357

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d1ta wrote...

Not sure if it's simple enough or not, but.. 'Paragon interupt kisses'? XD


Why not? We did have them in Lair of the Shadow Broker with Liara. Well at least the one time. I'm not sure that's the right way to handle it. The game should give you the benefit of the doubt and not worry exclusively about the lock in mechanic they've been using. For example: If I romance Liara in Mass Effect 1, then continue the romance in Mass Effect 2 (which can be reaffirmed even if you don't bring her to the Normandy for a tour, and even more so if you do) then tell her at the beginning of Mass Effect 3, either on Mars or once Shepard and crew leave the Citadel and return to the Normandy, then it's fair to say I'm going to stick with Liara. So from a programming perspective, they should have more familiar greetings, good byes, etc. stand closer to one another, and perhaps slightly different dialog during say a scripted event in which Shepard may appear to get hurt. Like when you fall off stuff and vice versa. The Rachni mission and the Priority: Tuchunka missions both come to mind as great examples where this technique could have added to the character relationship with little effort on the devs part.

Another example of something they could have done better: Liara and Garrus both take Ashley's death really hard if she's killed on the Cerberus attack mission. You should have the option to comfort her or Garrus depending on your Shepard's gender and romance choices. Now, if you've carried the romance for three games and then cheat on your ME1 romance, then they should bring down the hammer of consequences unto your Shepard for doing so. I don't really care for the fact that the confrontations which arose in earlier games from romancing more than one person are gone. Perhaps a new romance begun in ME3 might just not happen and the mechanic could work as it does in ME3 now, but a long term relationship carried over for the bulk of 3 games should not just end in a non-interactive conversation in which your ME1 romance just gets pissed and leaves you no recourse. As I understand it, any action which could keep your options open but not necessarily result in a lock in can end things with your previous romance.

In fact I may have experienced this with Ashley. I'm not precisely sure what ended that relationship in my renegade playthrough. The fact that James T. Shepard had more than one fling in ME2 is likely the cause, but my negative responses to Ashley, or lack of gift giving, or even my overwhelmingly positive conversation choices with Liara could have played a hand in that. I'm uncertain exactly how that mechanic works at present.

I'm also not sure why you can't just invite your carried over ME1 or ME2 romance to the Commander's quarters as you could in ME2 after defeating the Collectors. The mechanics are certainly there and the animations are there for most of the characters in the game. Liara has the lap sitting animation which wouldn't have needed much tweaking to work for her sitting on the couch. And actually, you do see her sitting in a chair in the lounge talking to Garrus, so that's probably covered already. Laying on the bed is easy because she can do that anyway in ME3 as she can be seen sleeping next to Shepard after their intimate scene late in the game. Ashley's easy as well because she seems to share FemShep's body in ME3. So the animations should be easy to do as well. It would also be nice if you didn't have to chase your romance down everytime they wanted to talk or vice versa. Liara will come see you, but only about normal mission type stuff scripted for all Shepard playthroughs. I don't know why they couldn't have done this with your actual romances. And as someone else pointed out earlier, a simple dialog wheel choice to allow them free access to your quarters makes sense to me.

I also really liked the idea that someone else put fourth about having your long term romance always be there for Shepard when they woke up from the dream sequences. At least past the first one because the initial scene happens before you can confirm your relationship to Liara, Ashley, Kaiden, Garrus, or Tali.

In a sense you sort of get some these things with Liara anyway, but no one else. Liara doesn't seem to worry about your personal space or privacy, even admitting this herself. She'll talk to Shepard while he/she is in the bathroom without a second thought. There is always a romantic subtext to anything Liara says to Shepard because she cares for him/her regardless of whether or not you actually reciprocate those feelings. I know it's largely a time and resource thing, but some more of this with other romances wouldn't have hurt the game in anyway and in fact, would have been a very nice touch.

And really, aside from Ashlely, Liara, Kaiden, Garrus and Tali, all previous game relationships seem totally pointless and disappointing. They just lack any subtext, or emotional resonance because those characters are all cameos at best. Take Miranda for example. You see her a lot compared to most romances, but you don't get a decent scene with her aboard the Normandy or even on the Citadel. This made no sense given that there are animations for a sex scene and textures for her with her jump suit hanging open. For me, aside from those I mentioned above, none of the other relationships are worth bothering with unless you want to go for numbers Captain Kirk style.

Modifié par Dead_Meat357, 16 avril 2012 - 07:27 .


#140
78stonewobble

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lillitheris wrote...

canarius wrote...

What we need is Traynor to be a bisexual.


Do we? It's kind of nice that everyone has a defined sexual identity, although on the other hand I suppose it's equally unrealistic that all the NPCs will return feelings for Shepard if their preference matches.

For ultimate realism, each new game should randomly select each NPC an orientation and whether they'll be interested in Shepard! That would make replays interesting.

:blink::o:wub:


I'd prefer not to have somewhat established chars to change like that.

I'm all for someone for everyone but eg. my own sexuality doesn't change at the flick of a button so, atleast to me, it would seem silly if it did it for a character.

#141
TJX2045

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After how some of the romances in Dragon Age 2 were handled (some LIs moved in with Hawke), I was expecting to see some of them move up into the Captain's Quarters, if not permanently then every now and then.

#142
catgirl789

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Oh I like these ideas.

I know it's probably too much to ask, but I hope this goes into the EC when it comes out this summer.

#143
lillitheris

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78stonewobble wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

canarius wrote...

What we need is Traynor to be a bisexual.


Do we? It's kind of nice that everyone has a defined sexual identity, although on the other hand I suppose it's equally unrealistic that all the NPCs will return feelings for Shepard if their preference matches.

For ultimate realism, each new game should randomly select each NPC an orientation and whether they'll be interested in Shepard! That would make replays interesting.

:blink::o:wub:


I'd prefer not to have somewhat established chars to change like that.

I'm all for someone for everyone but eg. my own sexuality doesn't change at the flick of a button so, atleast to me, it would seem silly if it did it for a character.


I was just kidding.

#144
Weltea

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Ross42899 wrote...

For an possible epilogue cutscene, showing what will happen to your LI after the end of the game, the Devs should IMO consider this:

- if Liara was romanced (by male or female Shepard) show Liara with a little blue baby
- if Tali/Miranda/Ashley were romanced (by male Shepard) show them pregnant or also with a little baby

So you can see that something of Shepard will continue to exist in his/her offspring, even after Shepard's death.


Ewww. And nonononononoNOOOO.
(Also: I Quarian/Human child wouldn't work and Miranda is infertile. Failed birthcontrol is never romantic. You don't "exist" in your children.
Headcanon a pregnancy if you want to but why force it on all players?
Considering all the stress (and accidents) they go through it doesn't make a lot of sense that they would conceive in the first place much less be able to carry it to full term. And all of them are needed in the aftermatch of Reapers destroying a bunch of planets and killing a lot of people. Maybe,just maybe having a baby at that time is the worst possible decision and incredibly selfish. The stress thing probably wouldn't apply to Liara and maybe she can "save" Shepards DNA for later when things are looking up but that would still mean no baby in the epilogue
I could go on forever because that suggestion makes me want to hit something. Or someone. But I'll just stop here)

#145
lillitheris

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Weltea wrote...
 Maybe,just maybe having a baby at that time is the worst possible decision and incredibly selfish.


Having children at pretty much any time is selfish :kissing:

A lot of people would probably be very happy to see blue babies (count me in!) but you're right, without gameplay additions, maybe just opening up the possibility properly is an option. For living Shepards, mainly. (Minus the Liara situation which was left completely unresolved.)

This is, though, the problem with leaving the game in the state that it is…ideally they would have added a conversation topic about children to the game with your LI. The options would be either to be “yay, want 18 kids!” (only for couples who actually can breed), “we should probably adopt some of these war orphans”, or “no, I don't want kids”. (Anyone who locks into a relationship and isn't satisfied with these options can only roleplay the role of having made some poor decisions ;)). The cinematics could then follow along those lines. That sounds reasonable, right? Edit: in fact, I'm pretty sure Garrus at least talks about adoption, and Liara has a kid talk, so those two might be fair game. Any other characters?

(My ending thread in the signature has some other ideas…I think I'll add this one there even though it's obviously a more remote possibility.)

Modifié par lillitheris, 17 avril 2012 - 02:57 .


#146
lillitheris

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Anyone have Renegade input on this, by the by? I find it hard to consider things from that perspective…

#147
BouncyCaitian

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Ross42899 wrote...

For an possible epilogue cutscene, showing what will happen to your LI after the end of the game, the Devs should IMO consider this:

- if Liara was romanced (by male or female Shepard) show Liara with a little blue baby
- if Tali/Miranda/Ashley were romanced (by male Shepard) show them pregnant or also with a little baby

So you can see that something of Shepard will continue to exist in his/her offspring, even after Shepard's death.


As an aside, for a sidebar mission, Miranda finds some tech that might beable to help her with her problem with having kids. perhaps some cerberus info that she became aware of and a mission to grab some unspecified medical tech that would help her out. 

jess a thought B)

#148
lillitheris

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BouncyCaitian wrote...

Ross42899 wrote...

For an possible epilogue cutscene, showing what will happen to your LI after the end of the game, the Devs should IMO consider this:

- if Liara was romanced (by male or female Shepard) show Liara with a little blue baby
- if Tali/Miranda/Ashley were romanced (by male Shepard) show them pregnant or also with a little baby

So you can see that something of Shepard will continue to exist in his/her offspring, even after Shepard's death.


As an aside, for a sidebar mission, Miranda finds some tech that might beable to help her with her problem with having kids. perhaps some cerberus info that she became aware of and a mission to grab some unspecified medical tech that would help her out. 

jess a thought B)


Heh, that should be the target of the Miri DLC! :lol:

#149
Rosey

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NO BABIES IN SPACE.

Though I would love to see a Garrus/Fshep shot on the beach surrounded by baby krogen, or Fshep and Kaidan w/ a little bundle of biotic chaos... I'd much rather [i]that[/i[ be left to fics/headcanon/fanartz.

#150
BouncyCaitian

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well...looking at Miranda's profile in the Shadow Broker files, that small problem has to be eating at her. Considering her sister is a clone that might have the same defect would be a additional reason for her to go one the mission.

having some high end meds access as a war asset would make a certain form of sense, but having access to some tech which would help Miri as a bonus pick up would be kinda cool. Plus any chance to punch Cerberus in the face is a bonus. I can also see TIM using it as a form of Bait to try to bring her back under his Aegis...

So you end up with a war asset that helps out the LI as well. Is there a problem with this?

Modifié par BouncyCaitian, 17 avril 2012 - 08:18 .